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Old 01-13-2010, 03:13 PM   #26
mathewjgano
 
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Re: Dreaming about MMA?

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote: View Post
When I was watching this video I remembered some senior instructors claiming here on aikiweb they teach combat in their aikido dojo. I sincerely hope they prepare their students for the situations like in this video.
Of course this is an edited video showing something very specific...and it's the kind of thing I'd like to see a lot more of because the commercial nature of UFC/etc. naturally shows something more glorious, but I think that's close to being a strawman. Getting in shape "prepares you for combat." The question is how comprehensive they're claiming the activity to be and I think few folks would say they train people how to deal with the best fighters in the world...at least, I've read very few people making such claims.
One thought about the video: I could put something similar together with soccer footage or football...in a similar way do those activities prepare someone for "combat" then?

Another thought: In my own choice of words I would say Aikido doesn't teach people how to fight, but using my buddy's choice in terms, I would have to say it does. I think when some people speak of combat, it similarly means something different: perhaps that explains the gap you see between what Aikido does and what some folks claim about it?

Last edited by mathewjgano : 01-13-2010 at 03:16 PM.

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Old 01-13-2010, 06:34 PM   #27
Aikibu
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Re: Dreaming about MMA?

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Erick Mead wrote: View Post
There IS a profound physical reason not to compete in training -- and it has to do with the adrenal-dominated response of the competitve fight or flight mode and a copmpeting and more poweful hormonal response. Oxytocin. Oxytocin is the "love hormone , but much much more. It is the "protective instinct" hormone and has powerful effects on physical endurance and demonstrable structural strengthening. Adrenaline does NOT provide these. Oxytocin's pathways both dominate and modulate the adrenal response, so its advantages are not lost -- but it is sublimated and reined by the dominant oxytocin.

But this hormone acts only in the context of self-sacrificing protection of others whom we love --- and not in conditions where personal survival or triumph is the motivating factor. Adrenaline is a linear response and runs out; Oxytocin, is a psotivie feedback system the more that is in your system the more that is produced. As long as the conditions provoking it do not lapse you do not run out before you run out of all convertible energy in the body. This is one reason why Medal of Honor winners really become physically different, both more capable of possible survival and of enduring almost unimaginable damage in accomplishing their objective before their deaths -- because they are neither living nor dying for themselves anymore -- and this actually makes their bodies more powerful and harder to destroy.

If one views aikido training as a way to create an environment where that protective response to threat becomes dominant and the enemy is seen as someone to protect (from himself), rather than a threat to be eliminated -- an entirely different manner of biochemical and structural responses exists, and which MMA -- as an expressly competitive art (however effective) -- CANNOT promote nor train to use...
With all due respect Eric... I think you're chasing your tail here... It has been argued by many with great success that Human Beings inherently do not like to kill or harm each other... Aikido in a Martial Context exploits this...Competition is a game with rules...War is not...The natural response to threats is "fight or flight" Military Systems all over the world train their soldiers to deal with this natural response so that they may continue to function under extreme duress...

No one enters the Octagon or steps on the Mat
thinking it's "kill or be killed"

As for the Medal of Honor meme Well...Every
soldier I have ever met or served with... including folks like Lew Millett ( MOH who just passed away) said the natural default response was to protect others...They did not "train" for it they just did it.

I would be interested in reading any sources you cite however.

May I suggest we start a separate thread so that we don't let this thread drift?

William Hazen
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Old 01-13-2010, 08:21 PM   #28
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Dreaming about MMA?

Erick Meade wrote:

Quote:
This is one reason why Medal of Honor winners really become physically different, both more capable of possible survival and of enduring almost unimaginable damage in accomplishing their objective before their deaths -- because they are neither living nor dying for themselves anymore -- and this actually makes their bodies more powerful and harder to destroy.
Happy New Year Erick! What is your source for this? I am very interested in this type of thing for sure! It is an area I am not familiar with and would like to know more about the differences between adrenal responses and oxytoicin.

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Old 01-13-2010, 10:54 PM   #29
Erick Mead
 
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Re: Dreaming about MMA?

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
Erick Meade wrote:

Happy New Year Erick! What is your source for this? I am very interested in this type of thing for sure! It is an area I am not familiar with and would like to know more about the differences between adrenal responses and oxytoicin.
This is going elsewhere so I have split this to a new thread -- HERE.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
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