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Old 07-25-2002, 08:09 PM   #151
Kat.C
Join Date: Mar 2002
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Quote:
Deb Fisher wrote:
Come now, Kat.

Surely you will agree that there is a huge difference between *trying* not to train with someone you're emotionally involved with, or who might injure you or get you sick and a *strict proscription* against training with a group of people.
Yes I do believe there is a distinction between the two, but some people have posted that everyone has to train with everyone else, no exceptions.
Quote:
Your own language makes this distinction clear: you try not to train with your husband. You don't wish to train with some people. Don't we all? And I assume you figure out a way to handle each discrete issue without disrupting the social order of your dojo. I "try" not to train with certain people, too. And when I have to, I bow and smile and try to learn as much as I can. This is a valuable part of training.
Actually there isn't anyone at my dojo who I avoid training with, I was just using that possibility as an example, My apologies for being misleading, I should have made that clear.
Quote:
My point: If Ari's potential dojo is anything like my dojo, it would be difficult to impossible to make his restriction work without disrupting this learning environment, making difficult training opportunities harder for all the members to seek out and embrace.

Deb
What is it about your dojo that would make it so difficult? I think it would work at our dojo, though such a person may end up without a partner sometimes as we're a small dojo, but often when we pair up there is a group of three so he could join up with a pair and just work with the male. I am not by the way saying that this would be acceptable at our dojo, I really have no idea, and it wouldn't bother me if sensei allowed it or not, I just don't see how it would interupt my training, I just wouldn't end up training with that student,and as I usually only train with five or six partners a class it wouldn't be unusual or hard.

I'm not saying that it would be a wonderful thing to happen, just that it wouldn't upset me or my training.

Anyways as you're not touching people in a sexual manner in aikido, regardless of what passes through you're mind, it will likely end up not being a problem.

Kat

I find the aquisition of knowledge to be relatively easy, it is the application that is so difficult.
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Old 07-25-2002, 08:25 PM   #152
paw
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hmm.......

Open Question:

If Ari is "disruptive" or "disrespectfull" because he is insisting not to train with women....is it "disruptive" or "disrespectfull" to have women's only classes?

A further question:

Has a thread ever grown as quickly as this one?

Curious,

Paul
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Old 07-25-2002, 11:11 PM   #153
Leslie Parks
Dojo: Tenshinkan Dojo
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Your Spirit is Your Spirit

This is directed to Ari.

WOW, this thread got so long so fast, really, I've stopped reading at page 4. Not that the responses aren't interesting, but I have a small contribution and I want to go to sleep.

Work it out with your rabbi and your sensei, separately or all together. Aikido is worth it and so is your faith. Constructive communication should hopefully eliminate or reduce potential conflicts. And someone is always going to be offended.

As for bowing, a sensei in our organization is a catholic priest who teaches theology in Rome. Several years ago, out of curiosity, I asked how he handled this question. To him, it was a matter of respect and humility. The action of bowing or not bowing did not confer or deny worship as that could only come from his heart. Bowing to the shomen was to show respect for those who had come before and, through their experience, given us this art of Aikido, which we practice.

Oh, as a woman, I couldn't give a rats a** if you do not practice with me due to religious strictures. Doesn't seem like a problem, I'll catch up with you for jo nage anyway, grinning like a maniac. Now, as an instructor, show up for my class, bow in and refuse correction (as has happened to me)...now that ain't cool.

NOT THAT YOU WOULD DO THAT.

Anyway, those are my thoughts...
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Old 07-25-2002, 11:55 PM   #154
Chuck Clark
 
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In my experience the people that you don't want to train with are often the ones that you eventually learn a lot with.

If someone is rough, use that experience to get sensitive and knowledgeable about "rough people" and what it takes for your aikido to be successful. If you're frightened of someone, use that fear to fuel your kiai and rise above it. If someone has some behavior that you don't like, learn to be tolerant and make your aikido successful. And so on and so on....

We all act as mirrors for each other in our practice. If we pay attention, we learn a lot.

Regards,

Chuck Clark
Jiyushinkai Aikibudo
www.jiyushinkai.org
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Old 07-26-2002, 01:03 AM   #155
giriasis
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Quote:
Mrs. Giri:
Just to let you know. It's Ms. or Miss. I'm unmarried and unattached. No-offense.
Quote:
>>My knee-jerk reaction to you religious views and similar other religious views is that it is sexist.

Knee-jerk reactions are bad for you. They should be avoided at all costs.
No, they should not be avoided. I am acknowledging that I might initially feel that way. I have the bravery to admit to this. I am boldly stating my inner demons within. However, I can choose not to act on those knee-jerk reactions. If you go back and re-read what I wrote after that sentence you will see that I would check my reaction and act with decency. I would even follow-up by reaching out to him to discuss and understand his beliefs.

My gut reaction is based on fear. Fear comes from ignorance. The best way to rid oneself of fear is to educate one-self about the situation. In this case I would want to know more about his beliefs and learn why such a practice is important for him to follow.
Quote:
>>In regards, to whether avoiding pre-marital sex would be easier if I didn't touch men. When I'm on the mat, sex doesn't enter my mind. It's not even an allure while I'm on the mat. For me, training in aikido is genderless, asexual even. I've been training in aikido for three years now and have not had the temptation to have pre-marital sex as a result of touching my partner in the course of aikido training.

Do you believe that this would be the case if practice was the only time you had the opportunity to touch men?

I practice Kendo with my significant other and because of our busy schedules it is one of the few times we get to see each other. I've found her distracting a couple of times. It is the nature of the beast, given deprivation.
No, I would not feel differently if was the only opportunity I could touch men. Actually it usually is the only time I touch men. As mentioned above I'm unmarried and unattached. I don't have a significant other. I'm definantly "deprived", but I'm way too busy worrying about my ukemi or my technique to think of sexual desire. And the few months that I have had a boyfriend on the mat, no, I didn't have sexual thoughts about him when I touched him during aikido practice.

Now, off the mat was/ is a different story. That time, to me, is the time to get to know someone as other than a practice partner. Off the mat, I'll admit my mind will wander, but usually not a result of a touch. But just in general.

I'm 32 years old and have grown past my adolescense. At the time of writing my previous post I didn't know that Ari was still a teen. Now with that considered that changes some circumstances. Part of my point, too, was to show Ari, that not everyone thinks of sex when they touch another person and that it is not possible to think of sex -- especially if he is worried about his ukemi and technique. That doesn't mean I think he should change his beliefs, I just want him to know that all opposite-sex touching is not sexual - perhaps at his age and hormonal level it is sexual.

Anne Marie Giri
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Old 07-26-2002, 04:07 AM   #156
guest1234
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Erik---my, that's a BIG one...

Michael N.--actually, I think a lot more people were intolerant of those who prefer not to bow to the kamiza for religious reasons (and that action does not require a change in action by anyone else in the dojo) than someone who will is saying he wants to come to the dojo and be accepted by them but refuse to train with certain members. That action does directly impact some.

There are some neo-Nazi 'religious' groups who would refuse, on religious grounds, to train with African-Americans or Jews---do we smile and accept those actions as well?

I think if I were the sensei (oh, stop laughing)) I would think long and hard about accepting such a student...I would question them on why they want to do Aikido, perhaps suggest another dojo if there are all male ones, or an alternate art (kendo, iado, tai chi) where physical contact was not an issue. I would definately suggest a discussion with a Rabbi, and perhaps a school counselor or physician (lets face it, the bottom line concern is a natural reaction of teen age males, and it's going to happen even if the girl is three partners over or lined up in front of him in warm up...perhaps just anywhere in the room). The sensei is responsible for the harmony within the dojo, and how one's religious views of not training with certain members in the dojo impacts the dojo as a whole is important. Not only can those who would support not training with women vote with their feet, those who condem refusing to train with women can vote with their feet. Beginners often leave, do you perhaps chase out long time members because a beginner doesn't want to train with them and you say it's OK not to?

Dojos should make an attempt to reasonably accomodate...how reasonable that is depends on the dojo. Since this would mean action by more than just the one seeking admission (as is all that the bowing issue requires), by the fact that others must make an active attempt to keep him from partnering with women, perhaps the others should be consulted.
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Old 07-26-2002, 04:12 AM   #157
guest1234
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Oh, I got dizzy on my soap box I forgot to say what I wanted to, each time I've posted on this: personally, I think an emphasis on touching the opposite sex=BAD, touching the same sex=GOOD, can cause a host of problems in developing personalities, especially when mixed with normal hormonal influence. I think the Catholic Church is reaping the result of centuries of that right now, and that is why I think a counselor or physician is a good referal to make, along with an implied acceptance of this belief if the student is allowed to join.
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Old 07-26-2002, 04:42 AM   #158
guest1234
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Hmm---guess I missed a lot of posts with this new reply system...anyway:

Kat---good thing you don't see how it could impact you, probably because you are in a medium to large dojo. But lets pretend you are in a small one, and think back to your first few classes---you got a fairly senior partner a few times I bet, to help you. Made it more enjoyable, right? Now lets pretend: smaller dojo, your first night, one other female in the class, she's fairly new (maybe the level you are now), and can't train with men. You train the entire class with her. Next time you come to class, same story. Finally you've been there a few weeks, trainingly almost exclusively with partners not much more advanced with you (no fair pretending you husband is there and will train with you later, most of us don't have that option)...now a new girl joins. The other girl is gone that night. New girl can't train with men, so you are partnered up with her... right now we're talking about a guy, so we're all saying 'no big deal' but try being the only other female in a class with a female who won't train with men, and it will get old fast.
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Old 07-26-2002, 08:12 AM   #159
Kat.C
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Quote:
Colleen Annes (ca) wrote:
Hmm---guess I missed a lot of posts with this new reply system...anyway:

Kat---good thing you don't see how it could impact you, probably because you are in a medium to large dojo. But lets pretend you are in a small one, and think back to your first few classes---you got a fairly senior partner a few times I bet, to help you. Made it more enjoyable, right? Now lets pretend: smaller dojo, your first night, one other female in the class, she's fairly new (maybe the level you are now), and can't train with men. You train the entire class with her. Next time you come to class, same story. Finally you've been there a few weeks, trainingly almost exclusively with partners not much more advanced with you (no fair pretending you husband is there and will train with you later, most of us don't have that option)...now a new girl joins. The other girl is gone that night. New girl can't train with men, so you are partnered up with her... right now we're talking about a guy, so we're all saying 'no big deal' but try being the only other female in a class with a female who won't train with men, and it will get old fast.
Okay, apparently I came across as too understanding of Ari's problem. There is no way that I would put up with this. If this situation arose that girl may well spend quite a bit of time without a partner. Obviously if you have restrictions upon your training you are going to be inconvienced, no way do I think that others should suffer for it. I don't believe that my current sensei would ask this of me, he likes us to train with a variety of partners each class. Anyone with this problem is going to have to accept that they might not always have a partner. Of course as I said in a previous post such a person could always join another group. In the situation you described Colleen, that girl could make a threesome with me and one of the males, I'd end up training with her alot but I would also get in some time with others. Personally though, I wouldn't want to do that,not the entire class anyway, I wouldn't have a problem doing it a few times, and as we often just have a small class it wouldn't be the first time I would work with someone more than once. So unless my sensei wished me to do this all class she'd just have to practice going through the movements on her own sometimes. I am only so accommodating. Anyways I agree that it could be a problem, but it should be for the person with the training restrictions not everyone else. I am referring to restrictions that are one's own choice; while I don't believe we can just shed the rules of our respective religion when they become inconvenient, we are still the ones who chose our faith and therefore the rules that go with it, so we can deal with the problems. It is nice though when others try to be understanding.

By the way the most students we've had on the mat since I've joined is about 15 and that has only happened twice so far, usually there is alot less.

Kat

I find the aquisition of knowledge to be relatively easy, it is the application that is so difficult.
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Old 07-26-2002, 09:43 AM   #160
virginia_kyu
Dojo: Aikido of Northern Virginia
Location: Arlington, Virginia
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Quote:
Colleen Annes (ca) wrote:
Erik---my, that's a BIG one...

Michael N.--actually, I think a lot more people were intolerant of those who prefer not to bow to the kamiza for religious reasons (and that action does not require a change in action by anyone else in the dojo) than someone who will is saying he wants to come to the dojo and be accepted by them but refuse to train with certain members. That action does directly impact some.
Colleen,

As I said in my previous post, I think the dojo has every right to make these decisions. I am just pointing out that in many cases the ones making these judgements are hypocritical.

If the dojo was refusing someone because they were HIV positive because they believed that they posed a real risk to the students (not just the potential for hurt feelings as in this case) the same people condemning Ari would be up in arms against this type of discrimination.

Actually Ari, if the dojo is partially funded with government funds, for example, if it is held at a public recreation center and it refused to allow you to train then you might have grounds for a lawsuit.
Quote:
Colleen Annes (ca) wrote:
There are some neo-Nazi 'religious' groups who would refuse, on religious grounds, to train with African-Americans or Jews---do we smile and accept those actions as well?
I don't think that is a fair comparison. But while I think that anyone who refuses to accept African-American's, Jews etc. is a low life I am one of those rare individuals who actually believes in freedom, and not just freedom for select groups of politically correct identities.

If these people (nazi's, radical religious sects, etc..) want, let them train, and I bet more people would refuse to train with them than the other way around. But I don't think Ari's beliefs fall into this catagory.

To you sensitive folks out there, don't get too worked up over any of my comments. I am just trying to show how we often selectively apply our morals when it suits us.

-- Michael Neal
-- http://www.theaikidolink.dnsdyn.net/
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Old 07-26-2002, 12:51 PM   #161
Kevin Wilbanks
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Quote:
Michael Neal (virginia_kyu) wrote:
Actually Ari, if the dojo is partially funded with government funds, for example, if it is held at a public recreation center and it refused to allow you to train then you might have grounds for a lawsuit.
Disgusting. Why even mention this? Aren't there enough lawsuits as it is, without encouraging people to sue Aikido dojo(s) over something so silly?
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Old 07-26-2002, 01:03 PM   #162
Kevin Wilbanks
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Quote:
Anne Marie Giri (giriasis) wrote:
No, they ["knee-jerk" reactions] should not be avoided. I am acknowledging that I might initially feel that way. I have the bravery to admit to this...
Right on! There is way too much sanctimony and repression preached in the name of Aikido. I think the kind of comment you reacted to has a lot more to do with trying to affect an approximation of some imagined ideal than any kind of real enlightenment. As I stated before, I think this kind of faux-holy repressive attitude inhibits honest communication, and it seems to be unfortunately pervasive amongst Aikidoka. From my point of view, allowing oneself to be oneself without judgement or condemnation is pretty basic. You have to start from where you're at.

K.
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Old 07-26-2002, 02:02 PM   #163
Lorien Lowe
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Ari-

I'm with Anne Marie on this: I don't see any of the contact in aikido as being sexual, but I would respect your decision if it was explained to me (-before- you refused to practice with me!).

To be honest, if a man can't keep sex out of his head I'd rather -not- practice with him. It's not honest practice (he tends to not be seeing me as potentially dangerous, and thus not be guarding his openings, if he's thinking about sex), and I feel that it's degrading to me.

I do think that the inability to practice with anyone in the dojo is a tsuki, but you must do the best you can (and do what you feel is most honorable for yourself).

-Lorien
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Old 07-26-2002, 02:07 PM   #164
memyselfandi
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Oops, meant to post this earlier (place right after post #160)

----------------------------------

hmm...law suit, now we're getting into the spirit of Aikido

I just wanted to say that I don't think it matters whether or not each individual situation is sexual. I think that overall, rolling around with a member of the opposite sex is inherently sexual and just because that's not what I'm thinking about at the time doesn't mean that I can do it

Disclamer: Just because I say it, don't mean it's true I'm not actually qualified to preach Judaic law. I'm just explaining it how I best understand it.
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Old 07-26-2002, 02:18 PM   #165
Deb Fisher
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Kat, Colleen pointed out exactly what I was trying to get across:

"Now lets pretend: smaller dojo, your first night, one other female in the class, she's fairly new (maybe the level you are now), and can't train with men. You train the entire class with her. Next time you come to class, same story. Finally you've been there a few weeks, trainingly almost exclusively with partners not much more advanced with you (no fair pretending you husband is there and will train with you later, most of us don't have that option)...now a new girl joins. The other girl is gone that night. New girl can't train with men, so you are partnered up with her... right now we're talking about a guy, so we're all saying 'no big deal' but try being the only other female in a class with a female who won't train with men, and it will get old fast."

To answer your question about what makes my dojo a bad place for this: We've just got a really nice, inclusive feeling going on. Almost everybody is incredibly supportive and human, everyone works with everyone and nobody talks smack about anybody, and this creates an atmosphere that I really treasure. Just look at how quickly this thread became divisive - complete with comparisons with racism, accusations of sexism and anti-semitism and now the mention of the dreaded lawsuit! In real life, I think that someone who refused to practice with any member of my dojo would foster the same kind of divisiveness because it would hold up the practice of picking partners and make for inequity at least some of the time, as Colleen describes above.

That might bother me enough to leave, especially since I would have the pre-event dojo experience to compare this new, more socially confusing and sometimes inconvenient atmosphere to.

Deb Fisher
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Old 07-26-2002, 02:26 PM   #166
memyselfandi
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It's not so much an issue of picking partners (more male than female so it wouldn't be so obvious). As I mentioned in my first post, what I'm really worried about is the times when everyone stands in a line and acts as Ukemi to one Nage. This would make the "discrimination" much more obvious. (I'm not sure if this is how they always do it, as I have only viewed one class so far)
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Old 07-26-2002, 02:44 PM   #167
Richard Harnack
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As the length and breadth of this forum indicates quite a few people have opinions on this topic.

1. To reiterate a basic understanding, Ari's concern is essentially a religious one that impinges on training. It does not matter in what art he trains, he will be confronted with the same dilemma. Thus it is not an Aikido question.

2. What others believe about his beliefs is not germane at all. What he understands about his beliefs is.

3. Ritual purification may be an opportunity for him. Such a ritual would have meaning for him, if it were available to him. This says nothing about his training.

4. Lastly, a general comment about ignorance of others traditions, if one does not know anything about anothers tradition, one should first learn the facts, then form an opinion. Much of what has been posted has been of the "I heard from..." category and had very little to do with Orthodox Judaism. (PS: In Judaism the parents who count are Abraham and Sarah, not Adam and Eve.)

Yours In Aiki,
Richard Harnack
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Old 07-26-2002, 03:24 PM   #168
tittle
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[quote="Ari Fuchs (memyselfandi)"]rachmass-

Not touching members of the opposite sex can indeed be seen as a precautionary measure as Eric mentioned. Let me put it this way; how much easier do you think it would be to avoid premarital sex (a sin in many religions) if you could not touch a member of the opposite sex to begin with?

[END QUOTE]

I don't think that's a good example: that viewpoint seems to encourage thinking about premarital sex by forbidding it, hanging it tantalizingly out of reach, creating a big mystery around it and so on. However, if *you* think that's the way to handle it, I won't gainsay you that, so long as you don't think that must be the way I should handle it.

While I would never dream of telling you that you shouldn't practice your religion, etc., I also believe that within the context that it affects only you (and others who choose to believe/practice the same way as you do). But by refusing to practice with other women in your dojo, they are now being affected by your practices whether or not they believe them as well. And I see that as unfair, particularly since it's over an issue they have no control over (can't flip on a boy switch).

I'm sure you'll find the best way to handle this for your circumstances, but you wanted to know what women thought...well many of them will find it offensive. But you knew that, I think.
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Old 07-26-2002, 03:28 PM   #169
memyselfandi
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I agree, it was a bad example and I apologize for it again.
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Old 07-26-2002, 03:44 PM   #170
Erik
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Quote:
Ari Fuchs (memyselfandi) wrote:
I just wanted to say that I don't think it matters whether or not each individual situation is sexual. I think that overall, rolling around with a member of the opposite sex is inherently sexual and just because that's not what I'm thinking about at the time doesn't mean that I can do it

Disclamer: Just because I say it, don't mean it's true I'm not actually qualified to preach Judaic law. I'm just explaining it how I best understand it.
Uh, Ari, what happens if you practice with homosexuals? In an all-male dojo, ya never know for certain do you? All that rolling around on the mat, if it's inherently sexual then we wouldn't want you to be led into temptation now would we? Or, are there no gay Jews?
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Old 07-26-2002, 03:50 PM   #171
memyselfandi
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Quote:
Richard Harnack wrote:
As the length and breadth of this forum indicates quite a few people have opinions on this topic.

1. To reiterate a basic understanding, Ari's concern is essentially a religious one that impinges on training. It does not matter in what art he trains, he will be confronted with the same dilemma. Thus it is not an Aikido question.

2. What others believe about his beliefs is not germane at all. What he understands about his beliefs is.

3. Ritual purification may be an opportunity for him. Such a ritual would have meaning for him, if it were available to him. This says nothing about his training.

4. Lastly, a general comment about ignorance of others traditions, if one does not know anything about anothers tradition, one should first learn the facts, then form an opinion. Much of what has been posted has been of the "I heard from..." category and had very little to do with Orthodox Judaism. (PS: In Judaism the parents who count are Abraham and Sarah, not Adam and Eve.)
1. Actually my concern is a training one. I'm not asking what anyone else thinks the law is, I'm asking for a way to deal with it without either offending anyone or giving up my religion.

2. You are correct sirrah...

3. yeah...some others of you have suggested this "ritual purification"...Ill be sure to ask the rabbi about it, as I'm sure hell get a real kick out of it . Seriously though, I have no idea what your talking about. (I suppose you could be confusing Judaic law with that Christian business of baptizing to get rid of Original Sin...though I don't know to much about that either ...)

4. You are correct again sirrah
Quote:
Erik wrote:
Uh, Ari, what happens if you practice with homosexuals? In an all-male dojo, ya never know for certain do you? All that rolling around on the mat, if it's inherently sexual then we wouldn't want you to be led into temptation now would we? Or, are there no gay Jews?
I'm sorry I do not know what one would do in such a situation as I am not homosexual and I have never had the opportunity to ask.

Last edited by memyselfandi : 07-26-2002 at 03:52 PM.
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Old 07-26-2002, 03:59 PM   #172
henry brown
 
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Organized religion is the scourge of the world
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Old 07-26-2002, 04:07 PM   #173
Kat.C
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Quote:
Deb Fisher wrote:
Kat, Colleen pointed out exactly what I was trying to get across:

"Now lets pretend: smaller dojo, your first night, one other female in the class, she's fairly new (maybe the level you are now), and can't train with men. You train the entire class with her. Next time you come to class, same story. Finally you've been there a few weeks, trainingly almost exclusively with partners not much more advanced with you (no fair pretending you husband is there and will train with you later, most of us don't have that option)...now a new girl joins. The other girl is gone that night. New girl can't train with men, so you are partnered up with her... right now we're talking about a guy, so we're all saying 'no big deal' but try being the only other female in a class with a female who won't train with men, and it will get old fast."
I replied to Colleen's post already, perhaps you missed my response. In short I just cannot see a sensei using this as a solution. Either the girls with the training restrictions would end up practicing the techniques on their own sometimes,while I work with one of the guys or they would join me and a male partner to make a group of three and I would train with both people. I have trained in a group of three before when there has been an odd number of students. So no big deal. Really though, I cannot see someone who cannot train with members of the opposite sex joining a dojo that has just one or two members of the same sex, it would be stupid.
Quote:
To answer your question about what makes my dojo a bad place for this: We've just got a really nice, inclusive feeling going on. Almost everybody is incredibly supportive and human, everyone works with everyone and nobody talks smack about anybody, and this creates an atmosphere that I really treasure. Just look at how quickly this thread became divisive - complete with comparisons with racism, accusations of sexism and anti-semitism and now the mention of the dreaded lawsuit! In real life, I think that someone who refused to practice with any member of my dojo would foster the same kind of divisiveness because it would hold up the practice of picking partners and make for inequity at least some of the time, as Colleen describes above.

That might bother me enough to leave, especially since I would have the pre-event dojo experience to compare this new, more socially confusing and sometimes inconvenient atmosphere to.
I don't think that there is anything wrong with picking and choosing who can join your dojo, I agree it is nice to have an enjoyable training atmosphere and that it is basically up to the sensei who can be there. What I found odd was that so many people would find Ari's restriction offensive. It does not stem from a hatred of women or from thinking that women are inferior or anything else degrading. It is simply about remaining chaste, at least from what I understand, which admitedly isn't much. If you don't think your dojo can deal wtih this without losing its atmosphere then obviously it's not the place for such a person to train in.

Kat

I find the aquisition of knowledge to be relatively easy, it is the application that is so difficult.
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Old 07-26-2002, 04:08 PM   #174
memyselfandi
Location: East Coast
Join Date: Jul 2002
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Then the world was doomed long ago my friend, cause this ones been around for about 3500 years and it's still kickin'.
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Old 07-26-2002, 04:32 PM   #175
Marc Kupper
Dojo: Aikido of Diablo Valley / ASU
Location: Walnut Creek, California
Join Date: May 2002
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Quote:
Ari Fuchs (memyselfandi) wrote:
It's not so much an issue of picking partners (more male than female so it wouldn't be so obvious). As I mentioned in my first post, what I'm really worried about is the times when everyone stands in a line and acts as Ukemi to one Nage. This would make the "discrimination" much more obvious. (I'm not sure if this is how they always do it, as I have only viewed one class so far)
Ari, since your sensei has already said it's ok for you to attend classes and to be selective about partners you could go back to him/her and ask about these line drills. When injured there was a time I sat out a line drill and it was fine with everyone as I could still participate in the one on one parts of a class.

If you do choose to participate in the line drills and the nage is a woman then you can either sit out or when you are at the head of the line to walk back to the end (skipping the technique).

If you are nage and have a line of people coming at you it's a little stickier. Either all the women sit out, skip you, or you do "no contact" throws. In this case you are really imposing your own beliefs on others. No "neat" solution comes to mind but perhaps the rabbi you know of that practices aikido has a solution.

What happens if a woman touches you by accident? I assume you have some form of purification ritual to deal with situations like this. As contact during the line drills is so incidental/quick you may be better off just doing the drill with women and then after class purifying yourself.

Marc
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