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Old 09-17-2009, 09:22 PM   #76
Mike Sigman
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Re: "Indians"

http://feministlawprofessors.com/?p=12978
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Old 09-18-2009, 06:57 AM   #77
TAnderson
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Re: "Indians"

A government take...

http://www.doi.gov/bia/

Tim Anderson
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Old 09-18-2009, 05:10 PM   #78
Eric Winters
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Re: "Indians"

All this PC stuff is fine and dandy but what I really want to know is if Aikido works in a fight?
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Old 09-18-2009, 05:12 PM   #79
gdandscompserv
 
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Re: "Indians"

Quote:
Eric Winters wrote: View Post
All this PC stuff is fine and dandy but what I really want to know is if Aikido works in a fight?
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Old 09-18-2009, 06:09 PM   #80
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: "Indians"

It doesn't work in a fight.

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Old 09-18-2009, 07:32 PM   #81
Eric Winters
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Talking Re: "Indians"

Damn! I guess I will have to quit then.
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Old 09-18-2009, 09:25 PM   #82
Mike Sigman
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Re: You're sensei, I'm sensei, Everyone's sensei

Quote:
Drew Gardner wrote: View Post
Your slang is disrespectful to the American Indian, therefore racist, therefore offensive to the Grand Dream of O'Sensei, therefore offensive to me.
Just to clarify about what a "racist" is, here's this:

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Old 09-23-2009, 12:21 PM   #83
Suru
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Re: "Indians"

When I saw the derogatory term it brought about bad feelings. Whether this word was intentionally disrespectful, I don't know. Not trying to be the Aikiweb police, I simply didn't want to see ethnic disrespect on our forums.

Wikipedia is a widely respected Internet encyclopedia, granted it isn't perfect or all-encompassing. I didn't know about the Indian thread since it is a break off from another thread. I just read the posts for the first time, then found the following list of ethnically derogatory words, for anyone about to use an ethnic term and wants to know whether it is generally considered disrespectful.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs

Drew
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Old 09-23-2009, 12:33 PM   #84
dps
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Re: "Indians"

I am of mixed heritages, Scandinavian, Irish, German, Cherokee Indian, Hillbilly and the only time when someone calls me something and I get offended is when they call me late for supper.

David
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Old 09-23-2009, 12:39 PM   #85
Janet Rosen
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Re: "Indians"

Interesting. Most of the Yiddish words are not specifically derogotory, they are the ONLY words in Yiddish to describe Jews and non Jews. They can be delivered in a tone of voice that, like any word delivered in a particular tone of voice, becomes a sneer or putdown ("Roast beef????", say, or "the Post Office???"), but are much more commonly used as simple descriptors.
Interesting also that the common term for a female non Jew, shiksa, is there but not the equally common term for a male non Jew, shaygetz.
As in, in reading the wikipedia entry, I suspect some shaygetz watched a Woody Allen movie and read too much into it :-)

Last edited by Janet Rosen : 09-23-2009 at 12:39 PM. Reason: spelling

Janet Rosen
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Old 09-23-2009, 01:28 PM   #86
Ron Tisdale
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Re: "Indians"

LOL...good one Janet!
B,
R

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 09-23-2009, 04:59 PM   #87
Suru
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Re: "Indians"

Janet,

You give too much power to movies. They are often entertaining, but if you see them as a true revelation of reality, it is healthier to save your $7.00. People don't pay to watch reality on the big screen; why would they?

Drew
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Old 09-23-2009, 05:03 PM   #88
Suru
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Re: "Indians"

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote: View Post
I am of mixed heritages, Scandinavian, Irish, German, Cherokee Indian, Hillbilly and the only time when someone calls me something and I get offended is when they call me late for supper.

David
You should walk in the midst of Miami's Overtown with a KKK outfit on, yelling the n-word repeatedly. If you live five minutes, I will immortalize your Aikido technique.
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Old 09-24-2009, 06:58 AM   #89
Hogan
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Re: "Indians"

Quote:
Drew Gardner wrote: View Post
...Wikipedia is a widely respected Internet encyclopedia...
Not really.
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Old 09-24-2009, 10:43 AM   #90
Basia Halliop
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Re: "Indians"

No, but if it's in Wikipedia it does explain that at least some people do and have used it as an insult. It may be one whose non-insulting vs insulting usage depends on where you are in addition to how you're saying it. In the original post, I did not get the impression it was used in a derogatory way -- i.e., there's nothing inherently insulting about a reference to certain political system that has leaders and followers. I got the impression the spelling was used more as it's a direct quote of an old saying.

One I always found weird was 'Polack'. I have never understood what's supposed to be insulting about that, as (other than the anglicized spelling), it's exactly how you say 'a polish man' in polish - my parents are from Poland and I speak the language reasonably well. I always thought it sounded better than 'pole', which sounds kind of silly, like a telephone pole. I assume it's one of those many words that acquired a certain connotation purely through usage, in this case probably at some point in time when there was an influx of poorly-educated polish immigrants to north america. I.e., if enough people use a word as an insult, it increasingly becomes one.

Like many words for, e.g., physically handicapped or particularly mentally disabled people -- each generation tries to wipe the slate clean with a newer, fresher, nicer word, and within a few years it's the new insult "Retarded" was originally invented as a nice word (it just literally means 'late'). Same with 'handicapped', 'special', etc... Unless the actual attitude towards the group changes, new more polite words just become insults.
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Old 09-27-2009, 05:34 PM   #91
Mike Sigman
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Re: "Indians"

Quote:
Basia Halliop wrote: View Post
Like many words for, e.g., physically handicapped or particularly mentally disabled people -- each generation tries to wipe the slate clean with a newer, fresher, nicer word, and within a few years it's the new insult "Retarded" was originally invented as a nice word (it just literally means 'late'). Same with 'handicapped', 'special', etc... Unless the actual attitude towards the group changes, new more polite words just become insults.
Good points, Basia. What you have to understand is that getting involved in the "racial insults" conversation is one of those useless flytraps in life. The people who devote a lot of time to emotionally-indexing words are usually the same people who get their deepest philosophy from the chorus-stanzas of ABBA songs and who could not write a simple homework essay without the cut-and-paste function.

FWIW

Mike
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Old 09-28-2009, 04:16 AM   #92
Mark Freeman
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Re: "Indians"

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
The people who devote a lot of time to emotionally-indexing words are usually the same people who get their deepest philosophy from the chorus-stanzas of ABBA songs and who could not write a simple homework essay without the cut-and-paste function.
Now that you've catagorized a whole sub-group of people Mike, why not give that group a name, just try to make sure that it's one that doesn't cause offence!

regards,

Mark

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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Old 09-28-2009, 06:26 AM   #93
lbb
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Re: "Indians"

Quote:
Mark Freeman wrote: View Post
Now that you've catagorized a whole sub-group of people Mike, why not give that group a name, just try to make sure that it's one that doesn't cause offence!
Why bother? When you view your every freedom of expression, no matter how trivial, as being paramount above all other considerations, the harm that you do to others is a matter of complete indifference. Why even bother to try to consider or evaluate what that harm may be, when you're going to do what you feel like regardless?
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Old 09-28-2009, 06:38 PM   #94
Suru
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Re: "Indians"

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
Why bother? When you view your every freedom of expression, no matter how trivial, as being paramount above all other considerations, the harm that you do to others is a matter of complete indifference. Why even bother to try to consider or evaluate what that harm may be, when you're going to do what you feel like regardless?
I really agree here, Mary. There are things we're supposed to take with us off the mat. Two of these are respect and discipline.

Drew
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Old 09-28-2009, 06:52 PM   #95
Suru
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Re: "Indians"

Quote:
Joep Schuurkes wrote: View Post
Now let's be fair here: shouldn't Chris be allowed to share the blame with the guy who named the river Indus?
Columbus was searching for a faster route to the East Indies, not where the Indus River is in India.

Drew
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Old 09-29-2009, 12:37 AM   #96
jss
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Re: "Indians"

Quote:
Drew Gardner wrote: View Post
Columbus was searching for a faster route to the East Indies, not where the Indus River is in India.
That's true, but if the people living near the Indus wouldn't have called it 'Sindhu' (Sanskrit), it wouldn't have been called 'Hindu' in Old Persian and thus would not have been know as the 'Indos' by the Ancient Greek, nor would the people living there been known as 'Indoi' (still Ancient Greek), which became 'Indians' in English. (I don't know which language Columbus used to talk/write about the Native Americans, though, but the word he used would have come from Ancient Greek.)
I mean, it all depends how far you want to go back to find the root cause. (Which is a very Buddhist idea, btw.)
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Old 10-01-2009, 02:57 AM   #97
Michael Douglas
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Re: "Indians"

John Hogan already put it simply, but ;
Quote:
Drew Gardner wrote: View Post
...Wikipedia is a widely respected Internet encyclopedia, ...
Simply isn't true, or even close to it.
It's a widely READ internet encyclopedia, also widely despised and distrusted.
In this thread for instance it took mere minutes for people to find words listed by wiki as derogatory which were simply descriptive : and only classed as derogatory by clueless whinging nerds ... who largely create entries in wiki.

(There are of course many good and accurate wiki pages ... but no way to discern which they are!)
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