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Old 09-24-2009, 10:49 PM   #1
Rabih Shanshiry
 
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The Big Ten

Came across an interesting quote by Stanley Pranin:

"In the annals of aikido, there are perhaps ten or so teachers who have commanded universal respect for their high level of skill...."

Anyone care to opine whom those ten may be?
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Old 09-24-2009, 10:51 PM   #2
Rabih Shanshiry
 
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Re: The Big Ten

I'll start with the five heavies that probably everyone can agree on:

Shioda
Mochizuki
Nishio
Saito
Tohei

Who else belongs there?
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Old 09-25-2009, 03:02 AM   #3
sorokod
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Re: The Big Ten

I believe that you can ask Stanley Pranin directly at http://www.aikidojournal.com/forums/

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Old 09-25-2009, 03:49 AM   #4
Flintstone
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Re: The Big Ten

Quote:
Rabih Shanshiry wrote: View Post
I'll start with the five heavies that probably everyone can agree on:

Shioda
Mochizuki
Nishio
Saito
Tohei

Who else belongs there?
I would add Tomiki here. No doubt.
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Old 09-25-2009, 04:22 AM   #5
Carsten Möllering
 
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Re: The Big Ten

Yamaguchi Seigo
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Old 09-25-2009, 04:26 AM   #6
Flintstone
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Re: The Big Ten

Shirata and Chiba. Respect is the word.
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Old 09-25-2009, 06:01 AM   #7
Aikilove
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Re: The Big Ten

Of all great past and present instructors of aikido my list of 10 true canons (i.e. those which have had most influence in the shape of aikido and by which all others are judged) is this... in no particular order...

Inoue Noriaki
Osawa Sr.
Saito Sr.
Tohei K.
Shioda
Yamaguchi
Shirata
Tada
Tomiki
Mochizuki

Not including the founder himself or his son and present doshu.

Jakob Blomquist
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Old 09-25-2009, 06:14 AM   #8
Flintstone
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Re: The Big Ten

My own personal list would go like this:

Mochizuki
Shioda
Tomiki
Saito
Chiba
Nishio
Shirata
Isoyama
Abe
Tohei

In no particular order.
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Old 09-25-2009, 07:16 AM   #9
gdandscompserv
 
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Re: The Big Ten

WHAaat?

No Seagal?
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Old 09-25-2009, 07:48 AM   #10
Rabih Shanshiry
 
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Re: The Big Ten

Quote:
Alejandro Villanueva wrote: View Post
I would add Tomiki here. No doubt.
Tomiki is a giant of a man within Aikido - no doubt. And one of the majors as far influence and innovation.

But this list is for the Big Ten in recognized technical ability. I haven't heard/read much regarding his actual skill level.

By way of parallel, if this were a list of top ten most influential aikidoka, then no doubt Doshu Kisshomaru would be on the list for his contributions to the dissemination of aikido and to the development of its underlying philosophy. However, I'm not sure he belongs there if we are talking about the top ten most skilled practicioners.

Can anyone shed some light on Tomiki as a martial artist?
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Old 09-25-2009, 08:52 AM   #11
Rabih Shanshiry
 
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Re: The Big Ten

Quote:
Jakob Blomquist wrote: View Post
Of all great past and present instructors of aikido my list of 10 true canons (i.e. those which have had most influence in the shape of aikido and by which all others are judged) is this... in no particular order...

Inoue Noriaki
Osawa Sr.
Saito Sr.
Tohei K.
Shioda
Yamaguchi
Shirata
Tada
Tomiki
Mochizuki

Not including the founder himself or his son and present doshu.
Thanks for the list - some names I wouldn't have even thought of.

Interesting inclusion of Inoue - does he count as Aikido? I also noted that you dropped Nishio from the list.

If you remove the consideration of influence and just focus on skill set, would your list change?
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Old 09-25-2009, 12:35 PM   #12
Howard Popkin
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Re: The Big Ten

What about a big ten list for this generation ?
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Old 09-25-2009, 01:23 PM   #13
David Orange
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Re: The Big Ten

Quote:
Ricky Wood wrote: View Post
WHAaat?

No Seagal?
He WOULD have been mentioned in the second post if my internet had been working. I TRIED to get him on there!



David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.esotericorange.com
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Old 09-25-2009, 01:31 PM   #14
David Orange
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Re: The Big Ten

Quote:
Rabih Shanshiry wrote: View Post
Tomiki is a giant of a man within Aikido - no doubt. And one of the majors as far influence and innovation.

But this list is for the Big Ten in recognized technical ability. I haven't heard/read much regarding his actual skill level.
Can anyone shed some light on Tomiki as a martial artist?
Hella great. And his methods are one of the most important lines of aikido in the modern world. So I think he definitely belongs among the Big Ten.

Best to you.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.esotericorange.com
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Old 09-25-2009, 07:52 PM   #15
Rabih Shanshiry
 
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Re: The Big Ten

Quote:
Alejandro Villanueva wrote: View Post
Even when most aikidoka plainly laugh at Shodokan big time in Spain. The best thing you would hear here is "that" that is NOT Aikido.

Sad but true. How is it anywhere else in the world?
There is only 1 shodokan dojo in all of New England and none in my state. Outside of Ohio, for whatever reason, shodokan dojos are hard to find.

...rab
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Old 09-25-2009, 09:02 PM   #16
JO
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Re: The Big Ten

Quote:
Howard Popkin wrote: View Post
What about a big ten list for this generation ?
OK, I'll bite. Trouble is I've only experienced a small fraction of the aikido instructors around. So here I go based on my limited exposure (and therefore showing the bias of my geography and organisational affiliation). I'm defining "this generation" as anybody still actively teaching. Here is a list of instructors I would recommend seeing whenever the chance arises.

Tamura: Best aikido I've seen in person. Could watch him for hours without getting bored. Not sure any of the top tens on the other lists earlier in this thread have anything on him.
Chiba: Powerful technique, just pray you get him on a good day.
Konigsberg: Probably the aikido that has impressed me the most from actually getting a good opportunity to take ukemi. Strong, martial but without the brute force. I grab him and he takes my center right on contact.
Berthiaume: My first instructor and a worthy heir to Kanai sensei. Explosive aikido, get some good horizontal air time.
Waite: Another teacher to keep you moving. Impressed me a few years ago by bouncing me back in kokyu nage no matter how much "weight" I through at him.
Dianne: Chiba's style with a smile. Being thrown by her is like hitting a brick wall.(The last four are to me great examples of how it is possible to reach the level of one's teachers)
Doran: Only seen him once, but I got to feel his technique and I hope to do so again.
Takeguchi: Also only seen him once, but it was a very interesting look at aspects I hadn't worked on much and in a way that I actually think I learned something.
Yamada: A true travelling missionary of aikido. Just be ready to work on your basics and not much else.

Well I didn't make it to ten. I need to get out more I guess.

Jonathan Olson
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Old 09-26-2009, 01:26 AM   #17
Nafis Zahir
 
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Re: The Big Ten

Not in any serious order, but:

Chiba
Saito
Yamada
Kanai
Tamura
Toyoda
Nishio
Tohei
Shioda
Yamaguchi

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Old 09-26-2009, 02:19 AM   #18
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Re: The Big Ten

Quite hard to pick out Ten or so specifically. I don't see any reason why any of the Ueshiba family should be missing from the list. Can't limit to 10 so am going for the "or so", in no particular order other than when they pop into my head.....

Kaiso
Ueshiba Kisshomaru
Ueshiba Moriteru
Yamaguchi
Arikawa
Osawa Sr.
Saito Sr.
Endo
Tohei K.
Shioda
Shirata
Tada
Nishio
Mochizuki
Yamada
Chiba
Tamura
Tissier
Toyoda
Abbe
Saotome

I'm sure there are more.

Last edited by batemanb : 09-26-2009 at 02:22 AM.

A difficult problem is easily solved by asking yourself the question, "Just how would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
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Old 09-26-2009, 06:02 AM   #19
aikilouis
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Re: The Big Ten

Why not simply ask Stanley Pranin ?

Because as far as most of us are concerned, trying to answer this question can only lead to useless speculation. Who belongs in the club ? Does membership reward skill or the publicity made around them ?

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Old 09-27-2009, 11:40 PM   #20
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Re: The Big Ten

O Sensei doesn't count?

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Old 09-28-2009, 09:52 AM   #21
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Re: The Big Ten

Greetings,

I am curious as to the reason my post inre to Tomiki Shihan was removed ?

Mickey
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Old 09-28-2009, 03:16 PM   #22
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Re: The Big Ten

Quote:
Bryan Bateman wrote: View Post
Quite hard to pick out Ten or so specifically. I don't see any reason why any of the Ueshiba family should be missing from the list. Can't limit to 10 so am going for the "or so", in no particular order other than when they pop into my head.....

Kaiso
Ueshiba Kisshomaru
Ueshiba Moriteru
Yamaguchi
Arikawa
Osawa Sr.
Saito Sr.
Endo
Tohei K.
Shioda
Shirata
Tada
Nishio
Mochizuki
Yamada
Chiba
Tamura
Tissier
Toyoda
Abbe
Saotome

I'm sure there are more.
I would add Tohei A.

Robert Cronin
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Old 09-29-2009, 01:54 AM   #23
Rabih Shanshiry
 
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Re: The Big Ten

Quote:
Rafael Ayala wrote: View Post
O Sensei doesn't count?
O Sensei does indeed count. Talk about "hidden in plain sight." With Tomiki, I'm now up to a core of seven:

O Sensei
Shioda
Mochizuki
Tohei
Tomiki
Saito
Nishio

Still in the hunt (personally) for the last three slots. Lots of strong candidates mentioned here already to consider.

As for the couple suggestions to consult with Pranin - I will absolutely seek out his opinion and also Dr. Goldsbury's. I first wanted to see if we what we came up with on our own. It's a fun question to ponder and truly about the journey more than the destination.
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Old 09-29-2009, 01:56 AM   #24
Rabih Shanshiry
 
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Re: The Big Ten

Quote:
Michael Gelum wrote: View Post
Greetings,

I am curious as to the reason my post inre to Tomiki Shihan was removed ?

Mickey
Mickey,

I think it got moved over to a new thread Jun created around Shodokan Aikido when he saw the thread start to wander from the OT.

FWIW: I've added him to my Big Ten list based, in part, on your and Ellis' feedback.
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Old 09-29-2009, 07:16 AM   #25
dps
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Re: The Big Ten

Mr.Gelum,

Did you miss the thread by Jun stating, "PLEASE START NEW THREADS FOR NEW TOPICS"
http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14738

David
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