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Old 08-05-2009, 11:47 PM   #1
jamie yugawa
 
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Smile Reading "Ki" or Psyche out ?!?!

Hows that for a dramatic title !!! A couple of months ago I was being Uke for my Sensei (Katatetori if i remember ) and i remember as soon as i touched her hand I had a feeling of Defeat or i should have never touched her hand , a sense of failing before even starting . I questioned my sensei ( 6th dan ) and they said it was part of training to feel the intentions or ki of Nage with more experience. I previously heard a story from my uncle who took uke from O sensei when he was a child during his 1961 vist to the big island , he stated when he grabbed him it felt like a force field around O sensei's hand or something that was letting him know he wasn't supposed to be grabbing O sensei.
I thought this was interesting ,and would like to know others experience with this . could this be a psychological, physiological, or Ki training ?( I am just 3rd kyu and have not Practiced with a lot of high ranking Aikidoka ) Please Comment .
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Old 08-06-2009, 10:19 AM   #2
Janet Rosen
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Re: Reading "Ki" or Psyche out ?!?!

Look for George Ledyard's blog posting about "intent" :
http://aikieast.blogspot.com/2009/06...iving-and.html

Last edited by Janet Rosen : 08-06-2009 at 10:22 AM. Reason: found the link!

Janet Rosen
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Old 08-20-2009, 10:46 PM   #3
jamie yugawa
 
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Re: Reading "Ki" or Psyche out ?!?!

That article on "intent" was amazing !! I was talking to an elder Yudansha and he stated that this awareness was essential to life during the samurai era ,knowing others intent towards you meant to live or die . Has anyone else felt this awareness during training ? Is there other ways to help develop this awareness?
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Old 08-21-2009, 04:40 AM   #4
SeiserL
 
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Re: Reading "Ki" or Psyche out ?!?!

Agreed, intent.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 08-21-2009, 06:37 AM   #5
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Reading "Ki" or Psyche out ?!?!

Quote:
Jamie Yugawa wrote: View Post
Has anyone else felt this awareness during training ?
Yes, but no where near as often as I like. And because I still have little to no control over it, what usually happens is my partner suddenly finds the need for a really frakin HUGE ukemi. After a few times getting the wits scared out of me due to the results, I try even on those rare "good" nights to tone it down.

Quote:
Is there other ways to help develop this awareness?
Uh, Yeah...go into North Philly (or probably hundreds of other places on earth) with someone you love, and wait for the thugs to come out. That also did it for me...

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
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Old 08-21-2009, 11:22 AM   #6
phitruong
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Re: Reading "Ki" or Psyche out ?!?!

Quote:
Jamie Yugawa wrote: View Post
That article on "intent" was amazing !! I was talking to an elder Yudansha and he stated that this awareness was essential to life during the samurai era ,knowing others intent towards you meant to live or die . Has anyone else felt this awareness during training ? Is there other ways to help develop this awareness?
i must be "intent deaf". when i uked (can you use uke as a verb?) for Ledyard sensei, i kept charging in and tried to kill him. i didn't feel a thing. Ledyard sensei said i suffered from Low Self-Preservation Syndrome or Self-Preservation Deficit or something along that line. really, you can only focus on one thing at a time. if you attack a person, why bother focus on defense and ukemi and awareness and stuffs like that. you should just push aside the awareness that he's larger than you, more skill than you, a whole lot quicker than you. awareness does nothing for you whatsoever but slowing you down from charging in at full speed.
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Old 08-21-2009, 12:16 PM   #7
jamie yugawa
 
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Re: Reading "Ki" or Psyche out ?!?!

When i was taking uke for my Sensei i wasnt really focusing on defence as much as attacking ,i guess what threw me for a loop was i felt my senseis "intent" and thats what distracted me . A sence of failure or hopelessness for my "intent" on my attack which led me to be defeated . It was pretty amazing the combination of technique , timing , and intent . It has let me to believe that i should think deeper about training and where i need to focus on . As for the training in the seedy parts of town for awareness , hilos pretty safe. LOL
Could "intent" be also a form of atemi? a distraction or "attack" to complete a technique . This higher level of training is facinating .
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Old 08-21-2009, 06:10 PM   #8
Rob Watson
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Re: Reading "Ki" or Psyche out ?!?!

Quote:
Phi Truong wrote: View Post
SNIP
Low Self-Preservation Syndrome
SNIP
Sweet! Funny thing is when Ledyard sensei talks about his experience in Araki ryu in which many kata ended in aiuchi (mutual kill) the purpose was to exactly enhance LSPS because the intent is to concentrate on making a good attack - defeat the enemy before they get a chance to do anything.

The other thing I recall is Okamoto sensei (Ropokai) saying that aiki was a conditioned response on the part of uke. Maybe that is a bad translation of what he mean't but it begs the question ... how much can uke be affected by intent if he can't 'feel' it?

I guess one should ask Mr. Truong if your affliction of LSPS prevented you from landing a decent attack on Mr. Ledyard?
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Old 08-22-2009, 03:27 AM   #9
Maarten De Queecker
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Re: Reading "Ki" or Psyche out ?!?!

Quote:
Phi Truong wrote: View Post
i must be "intent deaf". when i uked (can you use uke as a verb?) for Ledyard sensei, i kept charging in and tried to kill him. i didn't feel a thing. Ledyard sensei said i suffered from Low Self-Preservation Syndrome or Self-Preservation Deficit or something along that line. really, you can only focus on one thing at a time. if you attack a person, why bother focus on defense and ukemi and awareness and stuffs like that. you should just push aside the awareness that he's larger than you, more skill than you, a whole lot quicker than you. awareness does nothing for you whatsoever but slowing you down from charging in at full speed.
I'm pretty intent-deaf too. Partly because I believe that my instructors are friendly people who will do their best not to hurt me, and party because charging in (and flying back out) at full speed is incredibly fun
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Old 08-23-2009, 01:35 PM   #10
phitruong
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Re: Reading "Ki" or Psyche out ?!?!

Quote:
Robert M Watson Jr wrote: View Post
The other thing I recall is Okamoto sensei (Ropokai) saying that aiki was a conditioned response on the part of uke. Maybe that is a bad translation of what he mean't but it begs the question ... how much can uke be affected by intent if he can't 'feel' it?

I guess one should ask Mr. Truong if your affliction of LSPS prevented you from landing a decent attack on Mr. Ledyard?
i wondered about that myself. if an attacker is high on LSD or met or other drugs, would they even notice the intent or even reacts at all? and would aiki stuffs still work?

with my affliction of LSPS, which i believed there might be a cure, i was able to graze Ledyard sensei's middle; however, i was aiming for his head. or was that his middle hit me?
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Old 09-01-2009, 09:57 AM   #11
Lyle Bogin
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Re: Reading "Ki" or Psyche out ?!?!

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote: View Post
Uh, Yeah...go into North Philly (or probably hundreds of other places on earth) with someone you love, and wait for the thugs to come out. That also did it for me...

Best,
Ron
LOL My father inherited a supermarket at 25th and Ridge in North Philly. Worked there until the holds ups got too frequent. I remember sitting in the office/cage while he would do receipts, and karate smashing delivery boxes.

Guess it hasn't changed much.

"The martial arts progress from the complex to the simple."
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Old 09-01-2009, 10:06 AM   #12
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Reading "Ki" or Psyche out ?!?!

Hey Lyle, overall, not much. But some areas have been rebuilt and have some fairly good housing...they used some fairly strict income requirements for access to them, so those areas/blocks are looking better. And they picked up a lot of the burned out cars strewn about when Street was still mayor.

I don't go down there anymore since my great aunt died. I really miss her, but not North Philly...

Best,
Ron

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