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Old 08-05-2009, 12:05 PM   #51
gregstec
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Re: "Internal training, Aiki, and empowering Aikido" Seminar w/Dan Harden

Quote:
Mark Murray wrote: View Post
Remember, he doesn't kick. He said so at the seminar. It's just stepping with structure. So, the next time we see him, he'll just "step" our butts from there to the moon.
Step or kick - the result is the same - either way, I think we are in for it...
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Old 08-05-2009, 12:22 PM   #52
MM
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Re: "Internal training, Aiki, and empowering Aikido" Seminar w/Dan Harden

An overview from the dark side.

The one thing that I never realized was how many high ranking people were in the room. And that's a great testament to everyone there.

Another was that there weren't any egos involved. Something else that made it a great two days.

The format was small enough that everyone got to pretty much work with a variety of Dan's students and also Dan himself. I don't know if everyone got to work with Andy, but I kept telling people to go over and grab him. If Dan was busy, Andy was more than capable, willing, and happy to help.

Because of the way the martial arts works sometimes, people tend not to look very hard at the people just below the main instructor. And in this area, that's a huge mistake. Andy is almost a clone of Dan, even if he doesn't look the part. Great guy all around.

It was a nice surprise to see someone with Ki Society background having exercises that were very similar to what we were working on.

I finally got to put faces to names for some people. Now, whether that was good or bad ...

As for content ... I think some of us have pretty much posted about what we covered at the seminar. We have posted about using intent to drive our exercises, we have talked about shiko, we have talked about cross line work, about ground, about spine being streteched, etc. And we covered those things at the seminar. And I think everyone there finally realized IHTBF.

I remember getting David to push on me. Two years ago, David, you'd have pushed me over easily. Okay, so a light breeze would have pushed me over. And no, it doesn't mean I can't be pushed over. I can. And easily enough in certain areas -- especially a push to the chest in shizentai. Just that working internal structure makes it harder to do as I progress.

I know how I felt working at the seminar. My question is to the attendees. How did it feel to you working with some of Dan's students and also Dan himself?

I know how working on internal/aiki applies to my aikido, but how do you see it applying to your martial art?

Some of you were around when we were playing around with negating joint locks. How do you see that affecting your teaching and/or training? Especially considering it takes such a small amount of time to progress?

How do you see breakfalls now? Considering that having a structure changes how you react and move, how are you looking at them?

How do you view what was presented at the seminar as aiki? or not?

Is there anything that you would like to have seen more of? Less of?

Was anything not clearly presented or explained? By either Dan or any of those helping? I know some had questions and I tried my best to help answer, but I don't think I got things 100% clear. Here's a chance to ask more questions.

Even for those that were not there, are there any questions?

Mark
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Old 08-05-2009, 12:36 PM   #53
David Orange
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Re: "Internal training, Aiki, and empowering Aikido" Seminar w/Dan Harden

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Mark Murray wrote: View Post
Push over. Huh. Did he give you that look while you pushed on him? The one where he sort of looks bored? The one that's usually followed by him asking, "Are you pushing?"
Or "Are you pushing? Want me to get JILL to push?"

Quote:
Mark Murray wrote: View Post
Remember, he doesn't kick. He said so at the seminar. It's just stepping with structure. So, the next time we see him, he'll just "step" our butts from there to the moon.
He stepped into my right thigh four different times....I don't know why I didn't get bruises from those taps. It sure felt like I would have some.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
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Old 08-05-2009, 12:46 PM   #54
MM
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Re: "Internal training, Aiki, and empowering Aikido" Seminar w/Dan Harden

Quote:
David Orange wrote: View Post
Or "Are you pushing? Want me to get JILL to push?"
Yeah, that was funny.

Quote:
David Orange wrote: View Post
He stepped into my right thigh four different times....I don't know why I didn't get bruises from those taps. It sure felt like I would have some.

David
Uh, yeah. No bruises. I know it's weird. And the thigh will hurt for days. Been there, done that.
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Old 08-05-2009, 12:49 PM   #55
rob_liberti
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Re: "Internal training, Aiki, and empowering Aikido" Seminar w/Dan Harden

Don't feel bad, when Jill and I work together she generally has to back off on her pushing. It's just the way it is. -Rob

old mcdojo had a form, aiki aiki do...
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Old 08-05-2009, 12:51 PM   #56
MM
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Re: "Internal training, Aiki, and empowering Aikido" Seminar w/Dan Harden

Quote:
Rob Liberti wrote: View Post
Don't feel bad, when Jill and I work together she generally has to back off on her pushing. It's just the way it is. -Rob
Huh ... I remember one time working with her, she had to tell me, "Don't be a-scared of me".
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Old 08-05-2009, 01:01 PM   #57
David Orange
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Re: "Internal training, Aiki, and empowering Aikido" Seminar w/Dan Harden

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Uh, yeah. No bruises. I know it's weird. And the thigh will hurt for days. Been there, done that.
"Some" bruises, but not on the thigh, and lots of tender spots, but no broken bones or ruptured organs!

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
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Old 08-05-2009, 01:39 PM   #58
DH
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Re: "Internal training, Aiki, and empowering Aikido" Seminar w/Dan Harden

Well, while I have a more formal response I am putting together to thank everyone-I need to step in as you guys make it sound like I was attacking people!!
Uhm...I seem to remember being asked "How does this or that work to do something useful"? Now be me. I was asked this from; karate, Yi-chuan, judo, and CMA people as well as the aikido teachers there. What's a boy to do?
Josh was the only guy smart enough to qualify that and ask "In an aikido setting- how would this aid in entering? You don't need to hit me."
So I only tossed-him-about, here and there so he could feel the ground, then gravity and then the splitting effects of spiral energy rising and falling and entering and leaving all at the same time in tenchi nage, and irimi, kokyu ho, and such.
Did I mention he was a smart guy?
Dave
No bruises? I told you I wasn't hitting you hard!

I am inundated with personal stuff but my in-box is assuring me that everyone had a valuable learning experience. Here we are just three days past, and they are already seeing its potential in their aikido.
One fellow writes: "I went home and asked if my dojo mates would allow me to try some of the things I had learned. It took over the entire class, everyone just stopped and worked on this-the entire dojo- and they started telling him all these different places they could feel and see its potential."
That makes me happy. It means I did my job! and I picked a smart way to get it out there with some smart people
Cheers
Dan

Last edited by DH : 08-05-2009 at 01:43 PM.
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Old 08-05-2009, 01:55 PM   #59
DH
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Re: "Internal training, Aiki, and empowering Aikido" Seminar w/Dan Harden

On another note it appears by all the comments and emails that ya'll greatly enjoyed the way my own people love to verbally eviscerate me at every turn.
I am the Rodney Dangerfield of martial arts!

My favorite smart ass remark was at the very end of the seminar when Danny chimes in with "Hey Dan, how many "kataaas" we gotta learn to get our green belt?" Making fun of my Boston accent to boot!!
Which he stole from an infamous Meik Skoss story.
"No respect I tell ya!"
Dan
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Old 08-05-2009, 02:00 PM   #60
Ron Tisdale
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Re: "Internal training, Aiki, and empowering Aikido" Seminar w/Dan Harden

You'll always have my respect, Dan ...

Wish I coulda been there. Myrian was scheduled for surgery Tuesday, and then it got cancelled (stupid insurance companies). The job situation is better until December, then I start all over again.

Glad the seminar went well!
Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 08-05-2009, 02:11 PM   #61
Jon Haas
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Re: "Internal training, Aiki, and empowering Aikido" Seminar w/Dan Harden

Hi Mark,

Quote:
Mark Murray wrote: View Post
I know how working on internal/aiki applies to my aikido, but how do you see it applying to your martial art?
My background is in Bujinkan martial arts and a little RMA (Systema and ROSS Training System). What I saw this past weekend at Dan's seminar is, in my opinion, a fundamental body skill, conditioning method, that "should" be the backbone of all budo. It became very clear when he was moving with weapons (and without!!) how effective this type of body is for martial movement.

Quote:
Mark Murray wrote: View Post
Some of you were around when we were playing around with negating joint locks. How do you see that affecting your teaching and/or training? Especially considering it takes such a small amount of time to progress?
You know, Mark, I was really good at applying joint locks to people, no matter how they were resisting, right up until this weekend!! That was a very new and interesting experience for me!!

Since I cannot do it yet, it does not have an immediate effect on my training. But, I fully intend to perservere doing Dan's exercises daily, so I hope to have to address this question in the near future.

Quote:
Mark Murray wrote: View Post
How do you see breakfalls now? Considering that having a structure changes how you react and move, how are you looking at them?
Same as above.

Quote:
Mark Murray wrote: View Post
Is there anything that you would like to have seen more of? Less of?
I would like to have seen more applications of using the changed body in a more martial context, but I fully understand that we were merely scratching the surface this weekend.

Quote:
Mark Murray wrote: View Post
Was anything not clearly presented or explained? By either Dan or any of those helping? I know some had questions and I tried my best to help answer, but I don't think I got things 100% clear. Here's a chance to ask more questions.
I think the presentation by Dan and all those helping was truly excellent. The explanations, examples, advice, insight, and even stories told all combined to create a very effective mode of presentation.

Thank you all for an incredible and eye opening weekend!

Jon Haas
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Old 08-05-2009, 06:32 PM   #62
gregstec
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Re: "Internal training, Aiki, and empowering Aikido" Seminar w/Dan Harden

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"No respect I tell ya!"
Dan
Hey, if we did not respect ya, we would not be giving you any s__t - now don't ya have some tables to move around somewhere

Greg (with the lazy mind)
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Old 08-05-2009, 06:47 PM   #63
David Orange
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Re: "Internal training, Aiki, and empowering Aikido" Seminar w/Dan Harden

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Well, while I have a more formal response I am putting together to thank everyone-I need to step in as you guys make it sound like I was attacking people!!
....
Dave
No bruises? I told you I wasn't hitting you hard!
I knew you weren't! I was just hoping, each time, that this wouldn't be the time you would forget!

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
....That makes me happy. It means I did my job! and I picked a smart way to get it out there with some smart people...
You sure did. One of the most important seminars I've ever attended. Ark's was the other. Thanks immensely and best wishes on your family concerns.

Gassho.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
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Old 08-05-2009, 10:44 PM   #64
Janet Rosen
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Re: "Internal training, Aiki, and empowering Aikido" Seminar w/Dan Harden

I'm really pleased reading through the thread - sounds like it was a wonderful experience for everybody.

Janet Rosen
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"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 08-06-2009, 05:29 AM   #65
gregstec
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Re: "Internal training, Aiki, and empowering Aikido" Seminar w/Dan Harden

On a serious note, the reason for the obvious jocularity is that Dan and his group just made everyone so welcome it felt like you were/are part of the family. I think it is a testament to their sincerity in wanting to share these skills with those of a like mind. Normally when a group of strangers get together for something like this, you have a cordial and friendly atmosphere where you really hit it off with just a few participants. However, at this event, everyone hit it off - it was just amazing.

Of course everyone that was there respects Dan immensely - but, if he wants to think of himself as the Rodney Dangerfield of martial arts, so be it - I just wish he would get better jokes

And as for Marc A... well, let's just say that his wife should be nominated for sainthood for having to put up with his antics

Greg
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Old 08-06-2009, 09:07 AM   #66
David Orange
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Re: "Internal training, Aiki, and empowering Aikido" Seminar w/Dan Harden

Quote:
Greg Steckel wrote: View Post
On a serious note, the reason for the obvious jocularity is that Dan and his group just made everyone so welcome it felt like you were/are part of the family. I think it is a testament to their sincerity in wanting to share these skills with those of a like mind...
Another point is that many of the participants had also trained to some degree with Akuzawa and with Mike and there was no feeling of competition or "organizational" conflict or even that anyone's prior experience conflicted with what Dan was teaching. I'm looking forward to a time when all three groups very easily relate to one another. When that happens, watch out, martial arts world!

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
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Old 08-06-2009, 09:24 AM   #67
phitruong
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Re: "Internal training, Aiki, and empowering Aikido" Seminar w/Dan Harden

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David Orange wrote: View Post
I'm looking forward to a time when all three groups very easily relate to one another. When that happens, watch out, martial arts world!

David
Internal friendship seminar?

questions:
1. if a bunch of internal folks get together, who's going in through the door first?
2. if there are foods and drinks, will there be a pushing match?
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Old 08-06-2009, 03:10 PM   #68
DH
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Re: "Internal training, Aiki, and empowering Aikido" Seminar w/Dan Harden

Quote:
Jon Haas wrote: View Post
My background is in Bujinkan martial arts and a little RMA (Systema and ROSS Training System). What I saw this past weekend at Dan's seminar is, in my opinion, a fundamental body skill, conditioning method, that "should" be the backbone of all budo. It became very clear when he was moving with weapons (and without!!) how effective this type of body is for martial movement.

You know, Mark, I was really good at applying joint locks to people, no matter how they were resisting, right up until this weekend!! That was a very new and interesting experience for me!!

I would like to have seen more applications of using the changed body in a more martial context, but I fully understand that we were merely scratching the surface this weekend.

I think the presentation by Dan and all those helping was truly excellent. The explanations, examples, advice, insight, and even stories told all combined to create a very effective mode of presentation.

Thank you all for an incredible and eye opening weekend!
Jon Haas
Hello Jon
It was tough trying to fit in everything I wanted. We had discussed the presentation and format. Out of respect and recognition of the level of audience we felt they would be more concerned with actual tools to go home with and practice on - over application potentials.
As Marc and Mayda opined over dinner "We really don't need to be *wowed* at this stage in our careers-we want tools!" Mayda was very direct when she said "The most important thing to her was actually doing it." "Expressing intent in a very real manner and being able to replicate it over and over!" She also said "The women going round: Jill, Terry, and Kris were better instructors than the guys-they were more detailed!"...of course she said this looking at me with a gleam in her eye! God bless you Marc!

Ray has trained with a whole bunch of people including Sam Chin and said he wouldn't walk across the street to be "wowed" by some guy either. These were some pretty sharp people-with their very own list of demands! I was put on notice! They wanted something to fix them they could work with! So That was the thrust of the presentation.

I thought going round and playing here and there would satisfy the curiosity factor for -lets call it "in service use." There was just not enough time-as it was we ran from 9 am till 7:30 on Sunday!

Hey it was my first shot at this. My next one-if there is one-may cover less material and more work. We thought a general overview or introduction as a macro for the work was best
*how and why the body method is cogent from Koryu weapons to modern
*how it got so screwed up in modern budo
*how to train the body and mind in a paired exercise then with a solo to support it, then the next paired with its support solo and so on.
* the walking drills- splitting energy and sending while entering
Would be a good approach for folks to take home with them.

If you recall our working together on the rote MA stances ( remember the notes I keep?) and the various flaws and weakness inherent in some of the popular and art-specific stances you asked about and what happened next you get some idea of how deep the rabbit hole goes to address internal to external in a martial paradigm! Re-building the body "from the ground up" so we don't end up on the ground getting up is just good business, but it starts at a fundamental level before any notion of aplication and goes on from there. I am sort of very exact in the way I teach it-if you hadn't noticed!

That said I had a lot of fun with you and I hope to see ya again, where we can address some of the more practical aspects of "in service-use."
Cheers
Dan

Last edited by DH : 08-06-2009 at 03:24 PM.
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Old 08-06-2009, 03:39 PM   #69
DH
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Re: "Internal training, Aiki, and empowering Aikido" Seminar w/Dan Harden

Forgive me while I catch up
To all who extended their kind words on the family situation; both public and private my family and I thank you for your support.
Regards
Dan
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Old 08-07-2009, 04:28 AM   #70
Jon Haas
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Re: "Internal training, Aiki, and empowering Aikido" Seminar w/Dan Harden

Hi Dan,

I agree with Marc, Mayda, and Ray. The intention behind my comment was not to be "wowed" at all, but more of a forward-looking statement to ask the question, "where can we go from here?".

The times that you were showing martial application during the seminar were excellent and eye-opening, to say the least. That's why, when Mark M. asked what would you like to have seen more of, I responded that way.

That being said, I have a boat load of work to do on myself, and with my training group, using the exercises and concepts you and your team presented this past weekend.

I am very much looking forward to training with you again to explore more of this virtually uncharted budo territory!

Also, I would be remiss if I did not publicly thank Ellis Amdur for talking you into opening your door and making all this possible!!

Jon

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Hello Jon
It was tough trying to fit in everything I wanted. We had discussed the presentation and format. Out of respect and recognition of the level of audience we felt they would be more concerned with actual tools to go home with and practice on - over application potentials.
As Marc and Mayda opined over dinner "We really don't need to be *wowed* at this stage in our careers-we want tools!" Mayda was very direct when she said "The most important thing to her was actually doing it." "Expressing intent in a very real manner and being able to replicate it over and over!" She also said "The women going round: Jill, Terry, and Kris were better instructors than the guys-they were more detailed!"...of course she said this looking at me with a gleam in her eye! God bless you Marc!

Ray has trained with a whole bunch of people including Sam Chin and said he wouldn't walk across the street to be "wowed" by some guy either. These were some pretty sharp people-with their very own list of demands! I was put on notice! They wanted something to fix them they could work with! So That was the thrust of the presentation.

thought going round and playing here and there would satisfy the curiosity factor for -lets call it "in service use." There was just not enough time-as it was we ran from 9 am till 7:30 on Sunday!

Hey it was my first shot at this. My next one-if there is one-may cover less material and more work. We thought a general overview or introduction as a macro for the work was best
*how and why the body method is cogent from Koryu weapons to modern
*how it got so screwed up in modern budo
*how to train the body and mind in a paired exercise then with a solo to support it, then the next paired with its support solo and so on.
* the walking drills- splitting energy and sending while entering
Would be a good approach for folks to take home with them.

If you recall our working together on the rote MA stances ( remember the notes I keep?) and the various flaws and weakness inherent in some of the popular and art-specific stances you asked about and what happened next you get some idea of how deep the rabbit hole goes to address internal to external in a martial paradigm! Re-building the body "from the ground up" so we don't end up on the ground getting up is just good business, but it starts at a fundamental level before any notion of aplication and goes on from there. I am sort of very exact in the way I teach it-if you hadn't noticed!

That said I had a lot of fun with you and I hope to see ya again, where we can address some of the more practical aspects of "in service-use."
Cheers
Dan
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Old 08-07-2009, 05:47 AM   #71
rob_liberti
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Re: "Internal training, Aiki, and empowering Aikido" Seminar w/Dan Harden

I just had a really fun class last night reviewing all of the skills we went over at that seminar. There were 10 people in the class and 5 of us were people who helped out at Dan's event last weekend. The other 5 are not completely new to that kind of training either, and everyone's external proficiency is generally kind of high so there is this constant desire to start taking things up a notch - by EVERYONE - and I feel it is my duty to keep applying the brakes and getting people moving slowly enough to really follow their intent and not just fall back to moving lightening fast and raining blows, or snapping into a throw, etc. once a decent set up has occurred. That's what's been different for me as a teacher. I have a room full of people all qualified to be teachers (most are) who I have to keep slowing down and getting them to burn things in more deeply. (Where I used to let folks ramp up to explosiveness a bit and anyone who wanted to play that way could join in.) If I can give you any advice, you have to commit to training intent with the same dedication you had to develop your external skills. That is the first step of where to take it from that seminar. It's difficult, and challenging. But that's the path to developing the skills to finally becoming explosive again. Don't rush. It'll happen. -Rob

old mcdojo had a form, aiki aiki do...
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Old 08-07-2009, 07:08 AM   #72
MM
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Re: "Internal training, Aiki, and empowering Aikido" Seminar w/Dan Harden

Quote:
Rob Liberti wrote: View Post
I just had a really fun class last night reviewing all of the skills we went over at that seminar. There were 10 people in the class and 5 of us were people who helped out at Dan's event last weekend. The other 5 are not completely new to that kind of training either, and everyone's external proficiency is generally kind of high so there is this constant desire to start taking things up a notch - by EVERYONE - and I feel it is my duty to keep applying the brakes and getting people moving slowly enough to really follow their intent and not just fall back to moving lightening fast and raining blows, or snapping into a throw, etc. once a decent set up has occurred. That's what's been different for me as a teacher. I have a room full of people all qualified to be teachers (most are) who I have to keep slowing down and getting them to burn things in more deeply. (Where I used to let folks ramp up to explosiveness a bit and anyone who wanted to play that way could join in.) If I can give you any advice, you have to commit to training intent with the same dedication you had to develop your external skills. That is the first step of where to take it from that seminar. It's difficult, and challenging. But that's the path to developing the skills to finally becoming explosive again. Don't rush. It'll happen. -Rob
It's a great point, Rob. Hope you don't mind if I add to it.

We work slowly for a variety of reasons. First, if you use speed, you can gloss over weaknesses. And when you come into contact with someone who has internal structure, speed won't save you from that person exploiting those weaknesses. So, we train slow to identify those weaknesses and fix them.

Second, when working something new and as some have said, unnatural, alien, foreign, then it's a really good idea to go slow so that you can identify, define, and change from something unnatural and alien to natural and internal.

Third, speed is hampered by slack. Slack in the body will slow you down. Working these exercises slowly, builds an internal body that removes a lot of slack. Going fast or overpowering your partner doesn't help them work those internal pathways, doesn't help them burn in a cohesive body, a unified body, a whole body. Going fast just causes muscular reactions in a partner. Something that is diametrically opposed to what we're trying to build.

Fourth, these exercises are very much cooperative. You have to work together, giving each other feedback to help build an internally structured body. If you go fast, how can your partner tell you where to adjust so that your partner gets full benefit. Vice versa, if you're going too fast, how can your partner give you feedback on how you are doing if you feel like a blur?

Edit: And don't forget teaching. If you're going slow and working on things, you get them in finer detail than if you're going fast. You can identify and define them better, which, in turn, means you can teach them better.

Last edited by MM : 08-07-2009 at 07:10 AM.
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Old 08-07-2009, 08:07 AM   #73
Mark Jakabcsin
Dojo: Charlotte Systema, Charlotte, NC
Location: Carolina
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Re: "Internal training, Aiki, and empowering Aikido" Seminar w/Dan Harden

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Mark Murray wrote: View Post
It's a great point, Rob. Hope you don't mind if I add to it.

We work slowly for a variety of reasons. First, if you use speed, you can gloss over weaknesses. And when you come into contact with someone who has internal structure, speed won't save you from that person exploiting those weaknesses. So, we train slow to identify those weaknesses and fix them.

Second, when working something new and as some have said, unnatural, alien, foreign, then it's a really good idea to go slow so that you can identify, define, and change from something unnatural and alien to natural and internal.

Third, speed is hampered by slack. Slack in the body will slow you down. Working these exercises slowly, builds an internal body that removes a lot of slack. Going fast or overpowering your partner doesn't help them work those internal pathways, doesn't help them burn in a cohesive body, a unified body, a whole body. Going fast just causes muscular reactions in a partner. Something that is diametrically opposed to what we're trying to build.

Fourth, these exercises are very much cooperative. You have to work together, giving each other feedback to help build an internally structured body. If you go fast, how can your partner tell you where to adjust so that your partner gets full benefit. Vice versa, if you're going too fast, how can your partner give you feedback on how you are doing if you feel like a blur?

Edit: And don't forget teaching. If you're going slow and working on things, you get them in finer detail than if you're going fast. You can identify and define them better, which, in turn, means you can teach them better.
Mark M.,
All true and very good points, especially when doing drill based training. Train slow, learn fast. But there is a time to test what you learn and that requires faster speeds and greater stress. The question is what percentage of overall training needs to be 'testing' as compared to 'learning'?

Mark J.
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Old 08-07-2009, 08:12 AM   #74
Marc Abrams
Dojo: Aikido Arts of Shin Budo Kai/ Bedford Hills, New York
Location: New York
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Re: "Internal training, Aiki, and empowering Aikido" Seminar w/Dan Harden

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Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Hello Jon
It was tough trying to fit in everything I wanted. We had discussed the presentation and format. Out of respect and recognition of the level of audience we felt they would be more concerned with actual tools to go home with and practice on - over application potentials.
As Marc and Mayda opined over dinner "We really don't need to be *wowed* at this stage in our careers-we want tools!" Mayda was very direct when she said "The most important thing to her was actually doing it." "Expressing intent in a very real manner and being able to replicate it over and over!" She also said "The women going round: Jill, Terry, and Kris were better instructors than the guys-they were more detailed!"...of course she said this looking at me with a gleam in her eye! God bless you Marc!

Ray has trained with a whole bunch of people including Sam Chin and said he wouldn't walk across the street to be "wowed" by some guy either. These were some pretty sharp people-with their very own list of demands! I was put on notice! They wanted something to fix them they could work with! So That was the thrust of the presentation.

I thought going round and playing here and there would satisfy the curiosity factor for -lets call it "in service use." There was just not enough time-as it was we ran from 9 am till 7:30 on Sunday!

Hey it was my first shot at this. My next one-if there is one-may cover less material and more work. We thought a general overview or introduction as a macro for the work was best
*how and why the body method is cogent from Koryu weapons to modern
*how it got so screwed up in modern budo
*how to train the body and mind in a paired exercise then with a solo to support it, then the next paired with its support solo and so on.
* the walking drills- splitting energy and sending while entering
Would be a good approach for folks to take home with them.

If you recall our working together on the rote MA stances ( remember the notes I keep?) and the various flaws and weakness inherent in some of the popular and art-specific stances you asked about and what happened next you get some idea of how deep the rabbit hole goes to address internal to external in a martial paradigm! Re-building the body "from the ground up" so we don't end up on the ground getting up is just good business, but it starts at a fundamental level before any notion of aplication and goes on from there. I am sort of very exact in the way I teach it-if you hadn't noticed!

That said I had a lot of fun with you and I hope to see ya again, where we can address some of the more practical aspects of "in service-use."
Cheers
Dan
Dan:

GOD blessed me with Mayda, but then again, GOD's name is Murphy !

Speaking for myself, since the first US Aiki Expo, I have been on a very difficult journey away from waza and trying to explore the basics of body structure and the nature of effective movement as it relates to budo/bujutsu. There is SCANT direct information out there and as I have struggled to identify things and "re-orient" my body and the nature of my movement, I feel as though I am continually struggling to discover more and more about the what seems to most to be a simple topic.

Dan's work and the generosity of his teaching has been a true blessing. He confirmed things that I had been struggling with and explained things in a manner that opened my eyes to things that would have taken a whole lot longer to have discovered had it not been for that seminar.

My students have known from the very beginning, that my teaching approach is not based upon waza, but upon struggling to discover the proper body and nature of movement that allows Ai & Ki to occur. They are a patient bunch of dedicated students who are on this journey together with me and I now have added the scant beginnings that Dan offered.

The funny thing is that working with people like Dan, or by the occasional self-discovery, I look at my two main teachers and can suddenly see those principles in action. I just wish that they could have been as cogent and direct with their teaching as Dan is.

I really look forward to future training with Dan. If working with someone like him cannot help to open your eyes, then .....

Marc Abrams
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Old 08-07-2009, 08:26 AM   #75
Mark Jakabcsin
Dojo: Charlotte Systema, Charlotte, NC
Location: Carolina
Join Date: Feb 2001
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Re: "Internal training, Aiki, and empowering Aikido" Seminar w/Dan Harden

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Marc Abrams wrote: View Post

Speaking for myself, since the first US Aiki Expo, I have been on a very difficult journey away from waza and trying to explore the basics of body structure and the nature of effective movement as it relates to budo/bujutsu.
Marc,
Why the qualifier, '....as it relates to budo/bujutsu.' Shouldn't good basic body structure and efficient/effective movement be incorporated in much of our routine/daily movement? Actually can it be any other way. Every motion we make is a chance to study and train.

Mark J.
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