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Old 07-01-2009, 11:06 PM   #76
Buck
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Re: Immoral and Illegal - YouTube Vidoes of Copyrighted Material

The advancement of modern technology as always threaten livelihood. A popular folklore of John Henry illustrates that. At first people where concerned that machine would take their jobs as in the folklore of John Henry. Then it was computers, and robotics. All of which marginalizes labor. All of which is a junction of change and adjustment.

Those who are making a living from doing things like digital recorded medias must adapt to the change brought about by new technology. They must find a new way to profit from their efforts, efforts which are being affected by new technology almost regularly. This also means the laws that govern these types of thing like copyright should also change with new technology.

We have to accept that technology at this point is still rapidly changing, so anything that was protected will for only until the newest technology arrives. That means the luxuries of long protected copyright material such as DVDs are no longer. This means those who create something and of intellectual property must know it will be violated very quickly and the current copyright laws lack the teeth they once had to protect their work.

They also must know they need to be creative to profit from their work. They must be creative in how the produce and market their work. They must be equally savvy marketers to make it.

I see a old problem in a new bottle. Technology and a person's livelihood matched against each other. How people who make their living in connection with the digital world will need to be very creative to make a living. Those who are not creative and savvy will not survive.

Mary has a right to make a living by selling her experience and knowledge, and no one else should profit from her work - experience and knowledge. We know Mary's DVD's have been compromised on YouTube. Does it violate copyright laws to do so?If so, does the copyright law have teeth to rectify it, does Mary have the money and time to see her rights protected come to fruition? What does she have to turn the situation into her advantage and to continue to profit from her work?

The real piracy is rapidly changing technology. Unlike the steam power hammer which John Henry raced against, technology is winning and taking some people's ability to make a living away from them. Those who have not adapted to the change where technology is making information more readily accessible with the touch of a mouse button, instead of a ring of a cash register.
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Old 07-01-2009, 11:54 PM   #77
Charles Hill
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Re: Immoral and Illegal - YouTube Vidoes of Copyrighted Material

Quote:
Carsten Möllering wrote: View Post
Don't want to practice with those people.
But you may have to, Carsten. There are people right now uploading Seishiro Endo's videos and some of them have been asked directly not to do so by the producers of the DVDs. It is possible that they may attend a seminar and turn to practice with you, is it not? They are doing the wrong thing and they do not know it, at least not at a level that motivates them to action.

What are some things that you, Carsten, can do to help them grow? Post them here and maybe I, Mark, or others will join you.

Thanks,
Charles
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Old 07-02-2009, 03:24 AM   #78
Shany
 
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Re: Immoral and Illegal - YouTube Vidoes of Copyrighted Material

Isn't Aikido free? Aikido is Love and Love is free! How can one copyright Love? Spreading Love, isn't it what the founder wished for?

Our laws premits us from spreading love through the content of media, so according to law, this video should be taken down. But according to the law of universe, it should remain. Who than is right?

A good stance and posture reflects a proper state of mind
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Old 07-02-2009, 03:59 AM   #79
Carsten Möllering
 
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Re: Immoral and Illegal - YouTube Vidoes of Copyrighted Material

Hi

Quote:
Charles Hill wrote: View Post
But you may have to, Carsten. There are people right now uploading Seishiro Endo's videos and some of them have been asked directly not to do so by the producers of the DVDs.
Well that was one of the examples I had in mind.
It was about two month ago I think?
They stopped uploading after the post of the producers. It worked.

Same with a dvd of Tissier. I posted a comment. They finally stopped uploading his dvd after a comment.

It worked in both cases.

Quote:
... They are doing the wrong thing and they do not know it ...
Interesting to me:
They break down the copy protection but then stop after one comment?
So what dothey know?

Quote:
It is possible that they may attend a seminar and turn to practice with you, is it not?
Yes, I can't choose.

But - as I know me being in real life not as harsh as sometimes in a forum - I would train and would talk, if I knew it was "the uploader".

And well, I think I mean this in a broader sense:
To do Aikido has some "moral dimensions" (same with Karate or Katori Shinto Ryu or ... other MA.) To be honest is one of them, I think.
And I could not take a partner seriously who refuses to accept this relation.

Quote:
What are some things that you, Carsten, can do to help them grow? Post them here and maybe I, Mark, or others will join you.
Well I posted it:
I called uploading a copy righted and copy protected dvd theft.
Whether something is moral or immoral is not a question of technology or of possibility.
To me it's such easy.

I think posting - friendly - comments is a possibility to help to creat or reinforce the awareness of ethical values.

I am quite sure: No one I practiced with at a Seminar of Endo would intentionally do something, knowing to offend him.

I myself have no technical problems to copy Endos dvds and give them to my students. Or to upload them for them.
Instead of that we bought copies for our dojo which can be lent. Or the students by their own copy. It's possible to do so.

Even in times of USB-Sticks.

Thank you for your comment.
As I said: I'm sometimes harsh online which I am not in real life. Part of my misuse of technology.

Carsten
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Old 07-02-2009, 04:31 AM   #80
jss
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Re: Immoral and Illegal - YouTube Vidoes of Copyrighted Material

Quote:
Carsten Möllering wrote: View Post
Was it really "most of us"?
Wasn't there a big "it can't be helped" - fraction?
Can't I agree with both: uploading the video is wrong, but it can't be helped?

The problem (imho) is that there is a huge disparity between the laws that are being enforced and what people believe and do. Think about the huge fines demanded, the crippling of content through DRM, game publishers trying to prevent selling games on the second-hand market, the attempts to make copying for personal use (keep the original DVD safe and let the kids use a copy) illegal, the high prices of Windows 7 and Photoshop, etc. on the one hand and on the other hand how easy it is to download it all, how everyone seems to be doing it, the idea that "everything is crap, so I'll only watch it if it's free", that downloading seems like a victimless crime, because the creator is an abstract entity, etc.

The solution lays in more reasonable laws AND more reasonable people. When it is possible to purchase content online easily, at a low cost, without DRM and with the creator clearly benefiting from it, wouldn't that become the normal way to access content, because most people would agree it's the right thing to do?

Although some education might be necessary. Mike mentions a bunch of college kids that were unclear why ripping off music was wrong. Today there was an article in a Dutch newspaper: the number of people that don't know that milk comes from cows seems to be growing and one parent was telling his children that "Those apples are not safe to eat, since they grow on trees."
So perhaps I'm being overly optimistic.

Last edited by jss : 07-02-2009 at 04:37 AM.
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Old 07-02-2009, 11:25 PM   #81
Buck
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Re: Immoral and Illegal - YouTube Vidoes of Copyrighted Material

I think anyone currently or in the future who is thinking of selling their knowledge and or experience as a digital product should be aware of the difficulty in protecting their copyright-traditionally. They should adapt to the power of the current and future technology. They have to understand if they don't it can result to the loss of money The must realize that the drive of new information technology and its ease of piracy i.e. Mary's video on YouTube is due to society that is increasingly demanding free, and easily accessible information. This movement toward free and accessible info isn't even making piracy a profitable venture. It also is re-defining ethic and morals in this area.

Is this a thing that is killing off an art or craft that sells instruction like Aikido DVDs. No. It is a change on how we buy and sell that instruction. What is dying is the traditional idea of how we can make a living of an art and craft- like Aikido DVDs.
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Old 07-03-2009, 01:47 AM   #82
Gernot Hassenpflug
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Re: Immoral and Illegal - YouTube Vidoes of Copyrighted Material

Quote:
Philip Burgess wrote: View Post
I think anyone currently or in the future who is thinking of selling their knowledge and or experience as a digital product should be aware of the difficulty in protecting their copyright-traditionally.
While digital media provide a lot of entertainment, that is really all they give: they are by nature shallow media. For any depth at all, people really need to experience something in the environment which is depicted on the DVD, and put in the resources to do so (both in terms of getting there, and in terms of actually learning something when there).

While it is of course nice to monetize such products, especially from the point of view of offering something cheaper and/or more accessible than seminars, the reality is that from the point of view of a great many people getting something for free, they just do not see things from that perspective. A business model that allows viewers to get something out of the DVD if they satisfy other non-media-related requirements (such as training with an instructor somewhere) would be more successful perhaps, or at least avoid giving the creator the feeling of being a sucker; and those people that are in it for a free ride would get nothing but worthless entertainment.

Regards, Gernot

Gernot Hassenpflug
Aunkai, Tokyo, Japan
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Old 07-03-2009, 03:22 PM   #83
Flintstone
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Re: Immoral and Illegal - YouTube Vidoes of Copyrighted Material

Quote:
Carsten Möllering wrote: View Post
bah
Don't want to practice with those people.
Really?
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Old 07-03-2009, 11:29 PM   #84
Michael Varin
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Re: Immoral and Illegal - YouTube Vidoes of Copyrighted Material

Question:

Is monopoly a good or bad thing? (Not the board game wise guys!)

-Michael
"Through aiki we can feel the mind of the enemy who comes to attack and are thus able to respond immediately." - M. Mochizuki
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Old 07-04-2009, 03:01 PM   #85
sorokod
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Re: Immoral and Illegal - YouTube Vidoes of Copyrighted Material

Quote:
Michael Varin wrote: View Post
Question:

Is monopoly a good or bad thing? (Not the board game wise guys!)
It is very, very good for the monopoly holder.

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Old 07-04-2009, 06:57 PM   #86
Carsten Möllering
 
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Re: Immoral and Illegal - YouTube Vidoes of Copyrighted Material

Hi
Quote:
David Soroko wrote: View Post
It is very, very good for the monopoly holder.
sensei is a "monopoly holder".
shihan is a "monopoly holder".
iemoto / doshu is a "monopoly holder".

?
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Old 07-04-2009, 08:46 PM   #87
Michael Varin
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Re: Immoral and Illegal - YouTube Vidoes of Copyrighted Material

Regarding monopoly:
Quote:
David Soroko wrote:
It is very, very good for the monopoly holder.
Correct.

And at who's expense does a monopoly holder benefit?

-Michael
"Through aiki we can feel the mind of the enemy who comes to attack and are thus able to respond immediately." - M. Mochizuki
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Old 07-04-2009, 09:46 PM   #88
Charles Hill
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Re: Immoral and Illegal - YouTube Vidoes of Copyrighted Material

Quote:
Michael Varin wrote: View Post
Question:

Is monopoly a good or bad thing? (Not the board game wise guys!)
Hi Michael,

I have a couple of guesses where you are headed with this, but it behooves me to add (as this is a website about Aikido) that the monopoly is the core, fundamental structure of an Aikido dojo which follows the Japanese format.
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Old 07-08-2009, 01:17 PM   #89
MM
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Re: Immoral and Illegal - YouTube Vidoes of Copyrighted Material

Interesting article:

Online Radio Stations Strike Big Deal on Royalties

Wednesday, July 08, 2009

WASHINGTON — The future of Internet radio appears more secure after a handful of online stations reached an agreement Tuesday to head off a potentially crippling increase in copyright royalty rates.

The deal is the product of two years of negotiations between webcasters and copyright holders. In March 2007, a ruling by the federal Copyright Royalty Board dramatically raised the rates that Internet radio stations must pay artists and recording labels — leading many online radio stations to warn that the new rates would put them out of business by eating up as much as 70 percent of revenue.

(... more at link below)

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,...est=latestnews

Relevant part, though, is this.

Quote:
Traditional AM and FM broadcasters are exempt from copyright royalty rates for over-the-air radio play, because that airplay is thought to provide free promotion for artists and labels.
I think that's just hilarious.
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Old 07-31-2009, 01:44 PM   #90
Suru
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Re: Immoral and Illegal - YouTube Vidoes of Copyrighted Material

I tried to get the Metallica "Unforgiven [1]" video from YouTube. The link was there, but it was a no-go. Metallica has been all over this stuff since the Napster days, and although I'd like to see the video for the hundredth time, I'm glad artists are able to remove anything copyright-sensitive to them.

Drew
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Old 07-31-2009, 09:08 PM   #91
Rennis Buchner
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Re: Immoral and Illegal - YouTube Vidoes of Copyrighted Material

Quote:
Mark Murray wrote: View Post

Relevant part, though, is this.

"Traditional AM and FM broadcasters are exempt from copyright royalty rates for over-the-air radio play, because that airplay is thought to provide free promotion for artists and labels."

I think that's just hilarious.
Club DJs have been informally exempt by the industry for years for the same reasons.

Actually there are two different copyrights involved on any piece of recorded music, one is for the sound recording and the second is for the actual written piece of music (this means that a piece by say Mozart is in the public domain regarding the later copyright and any musician can perform the piece, but the recording of said piece by the Aikiweb orchestra is covered under copyright and said recording can not be broadcast on television, etc without royality payments being made).

As usual the industry is using some tricky language here when they argue that the "artists and labels" aren't getting paid by no copyright royalty payments from traditional radio. One is that they are not separating the two kinds of copyright and the later copyright which covers the actual authors (composers / songwriters) of the music DO receive royalties from play on the radio. This is an important point because under the typical artist contract at any given big label, the label more or less keeps the recording copyrights and the artists generally get nothing to a couple of cents per CD (if they are a major artist with the power the demand a beter contract) from that particular copyright. In most cases the sound recording copyright is a major cash cow for the label and does nothing for the artist at all. On the other hand it has been more common for the artists to be able to keep the songwriting copyrights and this is about the only area of the model of the traditional music industry that can be profitable to the artist at all if they become popular enough. To be sure, many labels still try and get a hold of these copyrights too and in the old days it was the norm for the labels to own it all, hence you see situations where Paul McCartney has to pay other people to play his own music, because others own the copyrights.

Anyways, my point here is that the music industry pretty much does everything it can to screw artists out of every cent they can and most artists make very little to nothing for the whole process of writing recording and releasing music (touring is where most of the money comes from). However the industry typically talks out of both sides of its mouth. When talking to the artists they will argue the extreme costs of recording and printing a cd coupled, and, these days, with declining sales as the reason they need to pay the artists less (in reality the majority of artists have to pay back all of their recording costs which are "advanced" to them out of sales of the resulting cd. Considering the avergae artists makes between 4, if you are new, to 10, if you are a serious artist, CENTS (not dollars) per CD, the label never has to pay the artist a cent because "your advance hasn't been covered yet". And a large scale printing of a CD really costs significantly less than one dollar for the entire deal, cd, case, artwork, I know this from personal experience).

On the other hand, when talking to the general public they will argue that CD prices can't be reduced any further and more needs to be done to make more from royalties and such because "we and the poor artists aren't making enough". Well I suppose it is true that the artists aren't making enough, but that is because they are basically stealing it from them with abusive contracts most artists aren't willing to try and negotiate as they might lose their one big chance at a major label.

Anyways, my original point was that one way the industry "plays" the public is by talking in such a way where it appears that there is only one almighty copyright at play here in an issue such as the radio. They say "Look, we get no money from AM/FM radio and they are getting rich while us labels and artists get nothing", and everyone instantly thinks of their favorite artist and "Oh it's such a shame, how can the Aikiweb orchestra get no money from all those radio plays, this is an outrage and needs to be changed." when actually their favorite artist IS getting paid (provided they write their own music) and the industryis really fighting to make more for themselves on the other copyright where most artists don't make anything anyways. They are simply "forgetting" to mention that other copyright and pretending it doesn't exist to make people feel bad for the artists and push public opinion in a direction where they can change they laws to something that just gives the labels more money.

When dealing with the record industry it is just best to assume they are lying to anyone they are talking to. A quote supposedly by Hunter S. Thompson is a favorite among many as a true reflection of the business.

"The music industry is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where theives and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side"

Random thoughts,
Rennis Buchner
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Old 07-31-2009, 09:17 PM   #92
Rennis Buchner
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Re: Immoral and Illegal - YouTube Vidoes of Copyrighted Material

Quote:
Drew Gardner wrote: View Post
I tried to get the Metallica "Unforgiven [1]" video from YouTube. The link was there, but it was a no-go. Metallica has been all over this stuff since the Napster days, and although I'd like to see the video for the hundredth time, I'm glad artists are able to remove anything copyright-sensitive to them.

Drew
Often the people getting the items "removed" at the labels and not the artists. While I agree that artists should have the right to control what happens with their music, I know of a couple of situations where artists have been completely ok with people uploading their material, but the labels have stepped in and had it taken down regardless. One recent example I can think of is a video clip someone made showing the "mis-heard" lyrics to a section of song that was quite funny. They showed this to the artist who thought it was great and recommended they put it up on YouTube for further exposure (you could probably also argue that this might fall under parody and was completely legal as well, but it may be a borderline case). Regardless, the label simply noticed the track name on the title (they almost never actually look at the content of these) and had it taken down, without looking at the context at all and here the artist had completely approved of and even encouraged the video clip.

Rennis
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Old 08-02-2009, 07:08 AM   #93
Shadowfax
 
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Re: Immoral and Illegal - YouTube Vidoes of Copyrighted Material

Heiney Sensei is visiting our dojo this week. I have told sensei Garth about this so he can let her know about it.
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Old 08-03-2009, 06:45 PM   #94
Charles Hill
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Re: Immoral and Illegal - YouTube Videos of Copyrighted Material

It's kind of disappointing that practically no one has responded at the link. (My comment was taken down, maybe others have commented but had the comment taken down? Somehow doubt it.)Also, Mark's comment has gotten a thumb down.

With so many Saotome and Yamada students here, I thought there would be a bigger response. Maybe, I am making too big of a deal about it. In fact, I have only bought Saotome's Principles of Aikido and the one on henka waza and was thinking of buying some more. I think I will save a few of my hard earned bucks and request the guy to put more up. Any recommendations on what I should ask for?
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Old 08-03-2009, 07:47 PM   #95
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Re: Immoral and Illegal - YouTube Videos of Copyrighted Material

Quote:
Charles Hill wrote: View Post
It's kind of disappointing that practically no one has responded at the link. (My comment was taken down, maybe others have commented but had the comment taken down? Somehow doubt it.)Also, Mark's comment has gotten a thumb down.

With so many Saotome and Yamada students here, I thought there would be a bigger response. Maybe, I am making too big of a deal about it. In fact, I have only bought Saotome's Principles of Aikido and the one on henka waza and was thinking of buying some more. I think I will save a few of my hard earned bucks and request the guy to put more up. Any recommendations on what I should ask for?
A video of Dan H. would be nice.
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