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Old 07-27-2009, 06:52 AM   #301
dps
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Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?

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Erick Mead wrote: View Post
OK, the zombie master revives me. Beware.

First. The diagram is NOT doing what we are doing to the block (if it were another person). The model shown is a translation (against sliding friction) without rotation --whereas what we are (usually) doing is fundamentally a rotation (every several different types and cycles) but rotations nonetheless. How do you move a refrigerator single-handedly? .
I use vector meaning a force with a direction and magnitude. To walk a refrigerator I would use a force that can be broken down into several vectors. If I place my hands high enough on the refrigerator I can use the structure of the refrigerator as a lever. One of the vectors would be vertically up and another would be horzantally away from me. These two vectors would tilt the refrigerator's top away from me and lift the bottom of the refrigerator nearest me off of the floor reducing the surface area the refrigerator has with the floor thus reducing the amount of friction needed to overcome. Another vertical vector on one side would tilt the refrigerator more so that it is now balanced on one corner. An additional vector would be a horizontal one to one side of the refrigerator to rotate the refrigerator moving the free corners, beginning the walk.

Quote:
Erick Mead wrote: View Post
Second-- the resistance in your scenario is from ground friction. Think about how to defeat the ground friction of the mass using cycles of motion. Think about how without pushing on anything you get a swing to swing higher..
For example a car stuck in mud. You need to apply force in a magnitude and direction to start the rocking and adding force with a magnitude and direction that would add to the momentum of the rocking car. A cycle of the car moving back and forth until there is enough momentum to unstick the car from the mud.
The swing would be similiar. It needs an initial force to get it swinging an additional pulses of force to increase the swing's movement.

David

David
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Old 07-27-2009, 09:29 AM   #302
Sy Labthavikul
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Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?

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These two vectors would tilt the refrigerator's top away from me and lift the bottom of the refrigerator nearest me off of the floor reducing the surface area the refrigerator has with the floor thus reducing the amount of friction needed to overcome.
Sorry to sidetrack, but this misconception is one of my pet-peeves. Frictional forces are completely independent of surface areas between two objects. While smaller surface area between two objects would reduce the source of frictional forces, it also INCREASES the pressure between the two objects for a given force holding them together. Since pressure equals force divided by the area of contact, it works out that the decrease in friction generating area is EXACTLY offset by the increase in pressure; the resulting frictional forces, then, are dependent only on the frictional coefficient of the materials and the FORCE holding them together.

Back to your normally scheduled program.


---------------------------------
train as if the tengu will never visit, execute as if they already have
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Old 07-27-2009, 10:07 AM   #303
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Re: What is IT?

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Joep Schuurkes wrote: View Post
So are you saying that the point of the aiki taiso is to learn how to apply shear to someone else's structure? Or does this way of moving also strengthen one's own structure against shear?
At least one point of the aiki taiso is to teach one's own body to sense where and how shear arises in the body, how to move one's own body using shear instead of leverage, how to move safely in response to applied shear, and, lastly, by extension of all of the above -- how to harness shear within the body of another.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 07-27-2009, 11:29 AM   #304
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Re: What is IT?

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Erick Mead wrote: View Post
At least one point of the aiki taiso is to teach one's own body to sense where and how shear arises in the body
If we were to meet, how long would it take you to teach me this in its most basic form?
Quote:
how to move one's own body using shear instead of leverage
How does that work? You use a lever to generate shear and you use the shear instead of the leverage as main power source?
Quote:
how to harness shear within the body of another.
So there's good shear and bad shear? How do you differentiate the two?
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Old 07-27-2009, 01:22 PM   #305
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Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?

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Sy Labthavikul wrote: View Post
Sorry to sidetrack, but this misconception is one of my pet-peeves. Frictional forces are completely independent of surface areas between two objects. While smaller surface area between two objects would reduce the source of frictional forces, it also INCREASES the pressure between the two objects for a given force holding them together. Since pressure equals force divided by the area of contact, it works out that the decrease in friction generating area is EXACTLY offset by the increase in pressure; the resulting frictional forces, then, are dependent only on the frictional coefficient of the materials and the FORCE holding them together.

Back to your normally scheduled program.
Also fits in with one my pet peeves
Let's put the weight of the refrigerator on top of a series of spindles supported by a series of different rotating swivels, supported by drawn wires with different counter supporting chains of force, and have then have the weight be far more fluid and controlled to respond to different vectors of force. Then lets have that mechanism control react differently everytime.
Write back when you have the math exact enough that you can defend it like a dissertation.

My favorite story is of playing with two structural engineers; one of whom is a nationally recognized expert who has been brought in to resolve various troubled projects, including our own big dig and air port sublimation issues.
I let him and his associate push me, pull me, and what not and they said...that's impossible! Once I explained it and even had them do some things a little bit they went off on each other cracking up on how difficult it would be to have to try an model that.

I have the sneaking suspicion that this is like a job site. Those doing the engineering...cannot do the actual work!
Cheers
Dan
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Old 07-27-2009, 01:36 PM   #306
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Re: Genshoku no Gyo

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Ellis Amdur wrote: View Post
Hi Shaun -
Question: I recall an interview with Abe Seiseki in which he stated that Ueshiba would eat brown rice when he visited him (sort of "since that's what you want me to do as your guest"), but that this was not a diet he followed otherwise.
Furthermore, in perhaps the same interview, Ueshiba complained to Abe that as he got old, his muscles were sagging - but, Abe notes, he could "pop" them in a remarkable way.
Finally, in John Steven's new book, there are pictures of Ueshiba, shirtless, from the 1950's, and we see a guy with a massive build, like a power-lifter who doesn't eat too many carbs - he's actually cut.

So the questions are:
1. Are you asserting that the genshoku diet was something that Ueshiba followed at a certain phase of his training?
OR
2. Although Ueshiba didn't follow it, Abe (and others) found this to be a very efficacious method to get a student to properly use their body in a way congruent with what Ueshiba was doing?
Best
Ellis Amdur
I, for one, would really like to see Ellis' questions addressed.

-Doug Walker
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Old 07-27-2009, 01:46 PM   #307
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Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?

my pet peeve is that I don't know the different kinds of work to do!
(Thanks again to R. John (and others?) for posting descriptions of actual jibengong/shugyo)
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Old 07-27-2009, 02:42 PM   #308
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Re: Genshoku no Gyo

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Doug Walker wrote: View Post
I, for one, would really like to see Ellis' questions addressed.
Hi Doug,

Sorry, I was actually answering private AikiWeb messages until around 4:00 this morning. I got sidetracked by another thread, here and as I am working today have just now had the chance to chime back in here.

So with regards to your request. I have two things to say

1. I already answered Ellis, but chose to do so ...PRIVATELY!

2. In the case that you wanted any of your own questions answered, please go ahead and ...ASK THEM!

OK -- back from my regularly scheduled sarcasm... No, seriously, Doug, Ellis's questions were great, and truly do deserve a full answer. However with questions as important as these, about a subject as important as this, there are some points that I just don't want to make a statement about until I check my facts for accuracy and completeness. I gave a fairly detailed account of my thoughts to Ellis already, noting where the gaps in my information were. He also gave me some things to chew on, too. I need to take his points into account and then arrange my thoughts into intelligent questions which then need to be forwarded up through the proper channels, (which in this case is at least two, or three different sources) after being translated into Japanese, of course and that is only when there is an opportunity to do so. Then there is the wait for a answer to come back down the line, the time it takes for translation back into English all before it gets forwarded back to me to break down and edit, polish into cogent responses to the original questions plus the time it takes to type it up and post it here on AikiWeb... I mean I wish I could just pick up a phone, or send a text message, but it just doesn't work that way in certain circles when it comes to certain individuals. No matter how some things may change most things remain the same... Can ya feel me?

Sometimes things derail the process so there is a chance that the answers will not come. However, I will be sure to post a reply once something comes across the wire. If that doesn't happen. I may just have to post some of what I know combined with what I feel might best answer the questions for the public's consumption. I hope you can be sympathetic to my position. In any case I do feel that this is one of the single most important issues to come up in a long time because there is so much related background material that people would find truly fascinating. I know I did, and it changed my thoughts and practice considerably for more than a decade. For those who are interested, we did an article back in the old Off the Mat, publication (circa-1994) entitled, Eating Aikido that is a great place to start if you can find a copy. The interview is somewhere on the web, I believe, but if not, perhaps I can scan it and post a link to it.

For anyone interested...
The above process is why we chose to stop publishing the old Tenshin Dojo Newsletter, Off the Mat which, by the way, was supposed to be renamed (get this...) Aikido Journal. However, between the two issues where the name change was supposed to take place, Aiki-News became Aiki-Journal. At the Senior Staff meeting we decided, after a very, very long debate about the subject, to change the name to simply AIKIDO It was maybe a year or so later that Aiki-Journal finally became Aikido Journal.

.

I no longer participate in or read the discussion forums here on AikiWeb due to the unfair and uneven treatment of people by the owner/administrator.
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Old 07-27-2009, 03:08 PM   #309
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Re: Genshoku no Gyo

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Shaun Ravens wrote: View Post
For those who are interested, we did an article back in the old Off the Mat, publication (circa-1994) entitled, Eating Aikido that is a great place to start if you can find a copy. The interview is somewhere on the web, I believe, but if not, perhaps I can scan it and post a link to it.
The best I could Google is this, an earlier post of yours here on Aikiweb. So please scan the interview and put it online, if you have the time.
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Old 07-27-2009, 06:30 PM   #310
Erick Mead
 
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Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?

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David Skaggs wrote: View Post
I use vector meaning a force with a direction and magnitude. To walk a refrigerator I would use a force that can be broken down into several vectors. If I place my hands high enough on the refrigerator I can use the structure of the refrigerator as a lever. One of the vectors would be vertically up and another would be horzntally away from me. These two vectors would tilt the refrigerator's top away from me and lift the bottom of the refrigerator nearest me off of the floor reducing the surface area the refrigerator has with the floor thus reducing the amount of friction needed to overcome. Another vertical vector on one side would tilt the refrigerator more so that it is now balanced on one corner. An additional vector would be a horizontal one to one side of the refrigerator to rotate the refrigerator moving the free corners, beginning the walk.
Keying off Sy's pet peeve -- what you described was actually not using leverage -- Why? Because there was no fixed fulcrum. If you set up a lever and the 'fulcrum' can move (or fail) that tendency to move defines a shear -- it is moving in shear if it is hinged. If it were, say a pencil as our lever, the shear is the stress that breaks the pencil. Your assumption is that the opposite edge of the fridge IS the fulcrum, and it isn't -- not any more than the opposite side of a large rock still resting on the ground after you lever it with a stick on a smaller rock as fulcrum. By setting a fixed leg triangle with a connecting hinge at the top and then shortening the base fixed length, you lift the fridge onto one edge -- in shear.

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David Skaggs wrote: View Post
A cycle of the car moving back and forth until there is enough momentum to unstick the car from the mud.
The swing would be similiar. It needs an initial force to get it swinging an additional pulses of force to increase the swing's movement.
All the swing needs its gravity and a clever moving fulcrum suspended from it. In other words it is a double pendulum.
By altering the position of the CG in the seat (the effective fulcrum in this scenario) with regard to the line of suspension, gravity causes it to swing into line with the altered CG. The moving fulrcum identifies a shear which is coverting action of gravity into a different axis. If resonance is achieved (where the CG shift occurs at a zero velocity cusp ( the peak of swing) then the system can be driven to its dynamic structural limits (which may or may not be more than the material structural limits.)

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 07-27-2009, 06:40 PM   #311
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Re: What is IT?

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Joep Schuurkes wrote: View Post
So are you saying that the point of the aiki taiso is to learn how to apply shear to someone else's structure? Or does this way of moving also strengthen one's own structure against shear?
Both. The trick is to move the effective fulcrums around in a persons body. Sometimes their body "cooperates" reflexively from a pulse of proper shaped/rhythm suddenly shifitng the "center" or effective fulcurm deeply into their body before they can act to oppose its shift. The "head-pop" trick from "jerking" the arm is of this nature.

Sometimes one can (as in kokyu tanden ho) find the "thin end of the wedge" in a very slight shear at the connection and then steadily propagate that shear moving the poised moments defining the effective"fulcrum" further and further into the structure (becoming progressively more difficult to oppose with levered power (because the effective "lever" arm on their end is getting progressively shorter.) Theya re the same, only the latter allows the conscious and subconcsious mind to both to perceive what is occurring structurally, and to better coordinate their rather different forms of learning . That learning allows one steadily learn to better "catch" and "throw back" if you will, the shifting shear center being thrown one's way.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 07-27-2009, 06:50 PM   #312
dps
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Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?

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Erick Mead wrote: View Post
Keying off Sy's pet peeve -- what you described was actually not using leverage -- Why? Because there was no fixed fulcrum. If you set up a lever and the 'fulcrum' can move (or fail) that tendency to move defines a shear -- it is moving in shear if it is hinged. If it were, say a pencil as our lever, the shear is the stress that breaks the pencil. Your assumption is that the opposite edge of the fridge IS the fulcrum, and it isn't -- not any more than the opposite side of a large rock still resting on the ground after you lever it with a stick on a smaller rock as fulcrum. By setting a fixed leg triangle with a connecting hinge at the top and then shortening the base fixed length, you lift the fridge onto one edge -- in shear.
Okay, I understand what shear is.
Is ikkyo applying shear?

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Erick Mead wrote: View Post
All the swing needs its gravity and a clever moving fulcrum suspended from it. In other words it is a double pendulum.
By altering the position of the CG in the seat (the effective fulcrum in this scenario) with regard to the line of suspension, gravity causes it to swing into line with the altered CG. The moving fulrcum identifies a shear which is coverting action of gravity into a different axis. If resonance is achieved (where the CG shift occurs at a zero velocity cusp ( the peak of swing) then the system can be driven to its dynamic structural limits (which may or may not be more than the material structural limits.)
I thought you meant someone on the ground pushing the swing not someone in the seat with no contact with the ground, okay.

David
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Old 07-27-2009, 07:00 PM   #313
Erick Mead
 
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Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?

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Shaun Ravens wrote: View Post
[[etc. etc.]]


Ah... Erick!

You reminded me of what I wanted to add to my reply post to David. Simply why the whole point of either of your approaches fails... Nor is it one person moving an inanimate object. Aikido and Aiki is a holistic approach to one's entire universe where there is no movement between things as there is only one thing in any given state of existence. The moment that state ceases to exist is the moment where Aiki ceases to exist.
You have only half of my approach in this thread. Read my thoughts (here in various places) on myth and spirituality. I believe that spirit has concrete expression and that concrete expression requires a proper spirit to be effective . This happens to be a discussion about the concrete expression, but I do not deny the aspects you address.

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Aikido is not one inanimate object moving another inanimate object.
True but there are concrete ways that animate objects relate to one another, beofre and in conjunction with their "lively" and spirited relations. I have a higly committed view of Western Spirituality that does not in the least seek to demean, deny or devalue what other forsm have found to be true. Truth is never to be feared, by whomsoever it is said

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Shaun Ravens wrote: View Post
What takes place at the moment of Aiki (practically viewed in physical confrontation) is a fundamental shift in the consciousness between two animate objects whereby the distance time and functional delay between the two objects is constantly approaching zero at the speed of light.
I tend to agree. But that interaction has aspects of approach that are the same (not merely similar) in nature, at varying and much grosser scales of interaction, more easily available to the less refined sensibilities -- if they are properly pointed out at those grosser scales so that observation can lead to more refined observations at finer scales. If you would read the thoughts in the dialogue on my view of KI it may be more clear what the range of my thought actually is on this issue. I commend it to you, at the very least to ease your mind that I am not as purely "materialist" as my careful cabining of this physical discussion might otherwise suggest.

If nothing else, may I, respectfully, suggest that the next time you see Abe Sensei, ask him about the nature and spirit of calligraphy as it touches upon martial action (I studied Chinese and a modicum of calligraphy myself.) Show him some Lissajous figures and some harmonograms and then ask him what he thinks of them -- are they related in any way to what he sees connecting calligraphy and budo, or not.


Cordially,

Erick Mead
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Old 07-27-2009, 07:06 PM   #314
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Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?

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David Skaggs wrote: View Post
Okay, I understand what shear is.
Is ikkyo applying shear?
Bingo. Then torsional shear is introduced in Nikkyo and Sankyo. Nikkyo's torsional shear pulse triggers reflexive leg flexors. Kotegaeshi ditto. Sankyo triggers reflexive leg extensors. Then in yonkyo (also extensors) the projection of shear is learned with less obvious levers to set up the initial shear point.

Last edited by Erick Mead : 07-27-2009 at 07:11 PM.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
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Old 07-27-2009, 07:33 PM   #315
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Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?

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Erick Mead wrote: View Post
Bingo. Then torsional shear is introduced in Nikkyo and Sankyo. Nikkyo's torsional shear pulse triggers reflexive leg flexors. Kotegaeshi ditto. Sankyo triggers reflexive leg extensors. Then in yonkyo (also extensors) the projection of shear is learned with less obvious levers to set up the initial shear point.
Got it.

David
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Old 07-27-2009, 08:11 PM   #316
Erick Mead
 
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Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?

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Shaun Ravens wrote: View Post
... my understanding is that according to Japanese macrobiotic yin-yang theory, the flow of ki from organ system to organ system is 180 degrees from that of the Chinese model. ... treatment to prevent the flow of negative ki will be based upon two different organ systems depending upon which yin-yang principles one is following.

As I mentioned in the model above, there can not be anything other than 180 degrees out of sync. If you are referring to something else, please let me know what, specifically and I will try to address it..
Resonance. It is a physical principle, but much deeper than that. When two cyclic systems interact they can meet in various phases. There are constructive phases -- peak meets peak; there are destructive phases where peak meets valley; and then there is resonance. Resonance is where the systems relate in angle of 90 degrees difference in time or in space. In spatial terms is is called harmonic movement and is very distinctive and "alive" in appearance. Resonance is where zero meets a valley or peak. The thing is, the zero in these circumstance is a moving zero, rising or falling though zero, a momentary but highly critical position where there is "no resistance" to additional inputs -- either to add to the trend or to diminish it. Where rising zero is met with peak it can drive a system out of its normal boundaries, if a rising zero is met with a valley, it can pull a destablizing system back within bounds. If progressive in positive phase it can drive the system to the point of structural disintegration or if progressive in negative phase, damp it to a minimum energy state.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
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Old 07-27-2009, 08:51 PM   #317
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Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?

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Dan Harden wrote: View Post
My favorite story is of playing with two structural engineers; one of whom is a nationally recognized expert who has been brought in to resolve various troubled projects, including our own big dig and air port sublimation issues.
I let him and his associate push me, pull me, and what not and they said...that's impossible! Once I explained it and even had them do some things a little bit they went off on each other cracking up on how difficult it would be to have to try an model that.
Funny thing about aeronautical engineers like Rutan, he makes things everybody else, including other engineers, thought could not possibly fly or fly well. Then he sets records with them. He is going into space these days... In short, there are engineers and then there are aeronautical engineers, ...

The reason is that the Navier-Stokes equations are a big unmapped mountain to climb -- describing fluid flow and shear vortices. Funny things -- they have no general model (or universally defined 3D mathematical solutions) that can be derived from them -- one of the most intractable problems in mathematics, actually. Only local solutions are known within certain sets of established parameters derived from empirical observation. Those have to be discovered. New solutions cannot be easily predicted from prior successful parameters. In short, they are not linear. Engineers who like reliable, generally predictive models despise or have great distaste for Navier-Stokes equations. Those guys make things like Reynolds numbers and stay in well mapped areas. Rutan didn't have any Reynolds tables for reentry transitions with his "falling leaf" design.

Does anybody see anything interesting to compare there in what Ikeda is doing and teaching? If not then you weren't paying attention.

There are engineers who like design but not flying, and pilots who fly and care nothing about engineering. On the other hand, there are engineers who like to fly and pilots who like the engineering. The latter two both see the same stuff in slightly different but related ways/ They "get" the way planes want to fly and the way things like shear want to function when they start to see its recognizable contours operating in a given setting. They are like mountain climbers who just like to go see if the route is passable over the next ridge. Everybody else thinks they are nuts, but they are certain before they go that the shape of the ridge is right to go over.

Last edited by Erick Mead : 07-27-2009 at 08:55 PM.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
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Old 07-27-2009, 09:45 PM   #318
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Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?

Whether using the mysterious ki paradigm or the mysteries of science and engineering.... I think you guys are way over-complicating this subject. But hey.... everyone has to choose their own way. It was the beauty of a simple pattern that was the cosmological attraction of all these things, not some great complexity.

FWIW

Mike Sigman
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Old 07-27-2009, 10:25 PM   #319
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Re: What is IT?

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Joep Schuurkes wrote: View Post
If we were to meet, how long would it take you to teach me this in its most basic form?
In its most basic form it is seen in tai no henko (done properly) and in tenchinage. Two minutes. But then, I can teach you the rules of Go in two minutes, too, but I would not put money on it at that point...

Better, let me tell you, you try and see if it makes sense, then do tai no henko the same way, on your own. Take two pencils or chopsticks and a square of duct tape and tape them together with about a quarter inch of space between the ends, they should bend easily at the joint.

Now hold them in thumb and forefinger in each hand and (gently) try to lever one with the other. Though it will bend slightly at the hinge - it won't work well. Then gently push the two together so they are stable in compression. Now instead of levering, let the connection fail and it will hinge (suddenly) out and collapse. That is shear. The shear is now at the hinge instead of at your thumb and forefinger (where it was when you tried to lever it). In fact, if you are applying leverage when doing it you will not be able to make it fail properly.

After you play with it for a while you can make it fail in an arbitrary direction (up, down, in or out). If you pay attention to the means of doing this kid's game it begins with a slight displacement of a hinge closer to the core (usually the wrist) of the same kind as the displacement of the pencil hinge -- which is then moved to the pencil hinge. The shear is inherently rotational and this moment can be moved, like a wave, because it is a wave. If you ever did the "rubber pencil" trick you did the same thing by moving the center of rotation back and forth along the length of the rigid pencil.

Now, tai no henko is the same, engage the connection with the same slight but stable compression, and then make it fail in the same way by beginning the shear in the core, then feed that into the connection and follow the failure progressively.

Quote:
Joep Schuurkes wrote: View Post
How does that work? You use a lever to generate shear and you use the shear instead of the leverage as main power source?
Think of it more in terms of creating propagating structural failure -- not power. If you have concern about structural failure lacking necessary power -- stand in a building undergoing controlled demolition.

Quote:
Joep Schuurkes wrote: View Post
So there's good shear and bad shear? How do you differentiate the two?
Yes, depends on the perspective I suppose. The bad shear is the one you missed ... but the other guy saw. If you see it you can make it keep failing the way it is already failing -- but so can he ... Since it can be shifted around in both structures, it is a very powerful multiplier. The problem is that the body is very, VERY concerned with avoiding misplaced shear because it can be so catastrophically destructive. Spinal reflexes (triggered by nikkyo, sankyo, yonkyo kotegaeshi) therefore are extraordinarily sensitive to the onset of potentially destructive torquing shears, and react structurally before conscious (cerebral) or even subconscious (cerebellar) action can be directed. Of course, we can "train the beast" -- learn to modulate the reflexes to counter or return the shear, by the same means of detection and action as are applied to us.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
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Old 07-27-2009, 11:59 PM   #320
Walker
 
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Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?

Shaun,
Thanks for addressing my interest. It's not pressing so I'll keep an eye open and or chat up Ellis next time we cross paths.

-Doug Walker
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Old 07-28-2009, 12:51 AM   #321
Ellis Amdur
 
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Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?

Me?, I've got nothing to say on the subject of what Shaun might have said in a PM - if for no other reason that I have no experiential knowledge of what he partially described - I, too, will wait for what Shaun hopefully reports from "upstream."
Best
Ellis

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Old 07-28-2009, 01:00 AM   #322
Walker
 
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Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?

Quote:
Ellis Amdur wrote: View Post
Me?, I've got nothing to say on the subject of what Shaun might have said in a PM - if for no other reason that I have no experiential knowledge of what he partially described - I, too, will wait for what Shaun hopefully reports from "upstream."
Best
Ellis
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Old 07-28-2009, 07:18 AM   #323
Erick Mead
 
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Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
It was the beauty of a simple pattern that was the cosmological attraction of all these things, not some great complexity.
Curious choice of word, "attraction." A simple logistics formula leads to a beautiful, startling, yet familiarly complex pattern -- which is not simple at any scale.

It is a greater attraction -- though simple to state, it is impossible to exhaust -- IOW, the universe really does not care for simple patterns:


Cordially,

Erick Mead
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Old 07-28-2009, 07:48 AM   #324
jss
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Re: What is IT?

Quote:
Erick Mead wrote: View Post
In its most basic form it is seen in tai no henko (done properly) and in tenchinage. Two minutes. But then, I can teach you the rules of Go in two minutes, too, but I would not put money on it at that point...
I already know the rules of go, so that gives us four minutes.

Quote:
Better, let me tell you, you try and see if it makes sense, then do tai no henko the same way, on your own.<explanation snipped>
I'm at work now, I'll save that for when I get home.

Quote:
Think of it more in terms of creating propagating structural failure -- not power. If you have concern about structural failure lacking necessary power -- stand in a building undergoing controlled demolition.
This would imply that shear cannot be used to execute a no-inch punch, which means you're talking about a different 'IT' than I am. Or would you say that the difference between an 'external' and an 'internal' punch lies in the fact that the 'internal' one propagates structural failure? If so, how do you explain that it's possible to demonstrate the difference between these two punches on a punching bag?
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Old 07-28-2009, 08:11 AM   #325
rob_liberti
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Re: Is It Missing In Everybody's Aikido?

Erick,

Please consider making a youtube video of your shear explanation. If you could then show how that relates to tai no henka in the video it would be great but it'd appreciate just seeing a vid of the 2 pencil -contraption you described.
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