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Old 06-09-2009, 08:32 AM   #26
Jesse Legon
Dojo: Shodokan Honbu, Osaka (Ittaikan Brighton/Central London SA)
Location: Osaka/Japan
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 24
Japan
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Re: Giving Advice

Quote:
Mark Uttech wrote: View Post
Onegaishimasu. Years ago at a summer camp I watched this new student always say "Hai" and then just do whatever. It was a little comical, until I noticed that seriousness doesn't hang around long.
I never forgot that wonderful lesson. Even when people couldn't understand a word O Sensei said, they always said "Hai." I hope this little anecdote or two helps.

In gassho,

Mark
I can relate to that. I train at Shodokan Honbu dojo in Japan and I only understand maybe 40% of what is said to me, but no matter what I am told, I always say 'hai'...

As for overly talkative sempai, if you don't like it, it's unfortunately an obligatory evil IMHO. It would be very difficult to ask them to shut up in a way that doesn't offend or cause you to miss out on valuable tips in the future.

Everyone has an opinion on how something should be done. Ask 10 people the same question and get 10 different answers. Just nod, say 'ok' or 'hai' or whatever's appropriate and get on with it.

There is someone in my dojo who absolutely always has an opinion on what I'm doing. The tiniest minute details are pointed out and corrected - constantly, which can be exasperating sometimes when I just want to get on with it and drill whatever I'm doing. But she really knows her onions and nothing she says is redundant. So, as annoying as it sometimes is, I know my aikido is all the better for it, so I put up, shut up and do my best to take on board any tips anyone is good enough to give me. But I do understand your frustration.

...And then there's the supremely rare occasions where I'll do a technique, she'll breakfall, get up, smile and say nothing.
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Old 06-09-2009, 08:35 AM   #27
Shadowfax
 
Shadowfax's Avatar
Dojo: Allegheny Aikido, Pitsburgh PA
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 884
United_States
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Re: Giving Advice

Quote:
f somebody is doing Y when Sensei demonstrated X, why isn't Sensei correcting them?
At my last lesson while attempting to learn the Omote version of a technique I kept mistakenly moving so that I would wind up doing the Ura version... rather than correct me, Sensei just showed us how to follow through with the trow and pin doing it that way. Oddly enough once I saw that version I was performing the Omote wit less confusion... sometimes its good to just not fight what your body wants to do and go with it and learn from it.

My partner that night is what you call a rebeginner. I really like how he is knowledgeable enough to help me learn and yet humble enough to realize he is not where he once was and willing to accept the adjustments even from me on the rare occasion when I am able to recognize something not quite right.

As for talking on the mat. I'm afraid I'm guilty, but not so much of giving advice.. because I really can't yet. But I talk myself through the movements or mutter about the mistake I've just made. Its part of how I focus myself on specific things when I'm nervous. I am grateful that my fellow Aikidokka simply smile and continue on and are not (visually anyway) irritated by my chatter. Usually they don't speak in return but continue to show me what to do and that's actually ok. So if someone offers advice to you let them.. it may be they are helping themselves more than they are helping you. There is no law that says you have to respond in kind.

Sometimes I have to tell Sensei, or my partner, that I am having trouble doing things they way they are asking (generally related to my knee issues). But I do at least try it before I decide its not working and look for another way.
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Old 06-09-2009, 12:45 PM   #28
"BacktoAikido"
IP Hash: b284c824
Anonymous User
Re: Giving Advice

http://aikieast.blogspot.com/2009/06...thodology.html

Peter,

This is an insightful article. Thanks again for pointing me in this direction. If I understand it correctly, it diagnoses the problem (noisy mind, looking at itself, grasping at externals) and provides a set of other things to focus on (relaxing, not worrying about technique, thinking instead in terms of listening and joining)

Sounds hard to implement, but I am definitely willing to try.
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Old 06-09-2009, 12:58 PM   #29
Ketsan
Dojo: Zanshin Kai
Location: Birmingham
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 860
United Kingdom
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Re: Giving Advice

Quote:
Anonymous User wrote: View Post
Wow, Alex I like your answer too. I will deploy both!
I missed out the bit that Mark filled in. Do the technique however you want. I'll assume you're male, be the alpha male. Not rude but just not interested.
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Old 06-09-2009, 01:25 PM   #30
"BacktoAikido"
IP Hash: b284c824
Anonymous User
Re: Giving Advice

Yeah, Alex, come to think of it, I don't really have anything to alpha about at this point in my aikido career... and I am also a tiny blonde woman. Macho is a real weakness of mine, but it rarely looks credible.
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Old 06-09-2009, 01:48 PM   #31
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
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Re: Giving Advice

:d

B,
R

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 06-09-2009, 04:54 PM   #32
Ketsan
Dojo: Zanshin Kai
Location: Birmingham
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 860
United Kingdom
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Re: Giving Advice

Quote:
I don't really have anything to alpha about at this point in my aikido career...
That is a quote from an alpha.

Alpha knows what it knows, is aware and open about what it doesn't know, keeps itself to itself and gets on with it's training.
It's quiet, humble, understated, polite and respectful. It's quietly strong, it's secure enough in itself to go and seek help.
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Old 06-09-2009, 07:38 PM   #33
"BacktoAikido"
IP Hash: 4cc064ba
Anonymous User
Re: Giving Advice

Okay, I know I wasn't going to post anymore, but...

Re: Alpha, point taken. Thanks. I get it now.

Re: Ledyard Sensei's approach... had a really interesting class today that was basically about iriminage, but not about "technique" at all. Instead of focusing on gross movements, the instructor focused exclusively on two things, to my eye anyway:

1. Find the right kind of hole between you and uke (don't get punched)
2. Move your center so that uke goes in the hole

Brilliant, wouldn't have understood a bit of it without the Ledyard article under my belt, had such a great time because the emphasis was on moving as little as possible instead of moving correctly. Came along at a great time, when my ability to hear exactly the lesson offered was stronger.

I feel like I lucked out!
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Old 06-10-2009, 07:58 AM   #34
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
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Re: Giving Advice

Those are the best classes. Wish I was ready for them more often.

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 06-10-2009, 08:12 AM   #35
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
Offline
Re: Giving Advice

I have been trying to think just how to express what happens when I train with my seniors at the Doshinkan. I am especially thinking of two 4th dans.

It's not so much that they SAY anything. They are very powerfull physically, but I don't feel a lot of physical power from them. When I train well with them, I as uke try to match them (posture, intent, focus) as exactly as possible. To connect and really feel what it is they are doing beyond the gross movements of the waza.

Then when I am shite, I try to produce that same feeling in them, matching their frame, their intent, everything that I can. It's pretty intense when it works well...the feeling is one of fitting in very closely. They may occationally give a tip here or there, matched with physical demonstration very slowly. I may occationally ask a question about something I can feel I am not reproducing as shite that I felt as uke. But there is really very little talking involved.

To me, it feels like it is all about matching, focus, fitting together, mususbi. As much as I sometimes like resistance training, this training has no resistence per se; if I try to do something that doesn't work, I don't feel like someone is resisting...just that I am not moving in the correct direction in the correct way.

I really like this way of training. In my experience, very few people allow this kind of extremely close connection (as shite or uke). For me, there is no better way to give advice.

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 06-10-2009, 08:46 AM   #36
"BacktoAikido"
IP Hash: b284c824
Anonymous User
Re: Giving Advice

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote: View Post
Those are the best classes. Wish I was ready for them more often.

Best,
Ron
It's like finding a hundred dollars on the sidewalk...
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