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Old 04-26-2009, 04:46 AM   #51
Nicholas Eschenbruch
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Re: Dance, Wrist Locks & Sub-Teens

Thanks Amir, this really needed to be said... your huzpa is entirely appropriate!
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Old 04-26-2009, 06:48 AM   #52
wideawakedreamer
 
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Re: Dance, Wrist Locks & Sub-Teens

I get the feeling that Thomas doesn't read our posts. Or is already convinced he's right.

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Old 04-26-2009, 09:22 AM   #53
Thomas Donelson
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Re: Dance, Wrist Locks & Sub-Teens

Quote:
Amir Krause wrote: View Post
Dear Thomas

The way you wrote your messages, make me think you are so miss-guided I can not explain.

Have you ever tried any wrist lock on anyone?
You are posting in an Aikido Forum, may I suggest you to find some Aikido dojo and simply try a couple of lessons.

Without realistic experience, all you have is simplified ideas which will NEVER work.

Oh, and I hate to break the illusion, but reading your post on how to perform the wrist-lock "you know", you do NOT yet have any slight idea on how to really perform any wrist lock on any other person.

The number of miss-guided, WRONG ideas I (and many others, much more polite and tolerant then me) read in your posts is staggering. Your messages indicate you have no knowledge in this subject. Your teaching anything of this type to children is on the verge of a crime.

Martial Arts are not a couple of techniques, this is true for Aikido, Karate, Judo, Jujutsu and Kung-Gu. Each M.A. contains lots of synergism elements, the techniques are just the most spectacular and easiest to see aspect, not the most important one.

To develop a way for children to face Bullies sounds very nice. But life is far from simple. Serious M.A. practitioners, as many here, would mock any person who tries to invent his own M.A. for adults, unless he had lots of years of practice preferably in more then a single M.A. It is my belief, that the qualifications of a person inventing a solution for children should only be higher!

Reading your posts, I am not sure if you are a teenager, sure he has a solution for his problems, and refusing to listen\read the opinions of his elder. Or a real teacher, who is sure he found the light and all those people simply have no idea. In either case, you should start by stepping on some dojo mat and feeling the true problems and limitations of locks.

I apologize if this post seems blunt and aggressive to you. But, someone here should have put you in place, and open your eyes to reality before you cause any damage. I guess it had to be an Israeli who has the "Huzpa" to write things this bluntly.

Amir
Thanks for expressing your non-specific negative feelings. Others have posted non-specific objections, similar to yours. If you have any specific suggestion, I would be interested.

I have sufficient training to have applied wrist-locks for dance in conflict situations, in my life. I have used Aikido for the release of anger from others, and for creating a dilogue on conflicts. If you and others need more practice to be able to confidently utilize wrist-locks for dance, then I would encourage those who lack confidence in their wrist-lock and foot-work skills, to gain further expertise; either at a dojo, or videos, or friends, or volunteering, whatever.

I am not suggesting that all other forms of marial arts be discontinued. I am suggesting that those interested in young people might look at how wrist locks can be taught to youngsters, at earlier ages, as part of channeling Anger, and creating Dialogue.

My interest in Wrist-Lock Dance is also Spiritual, in that harmony with other individuals is not taught by many branches of Aikdo or other Martial Arts. So my stubborness is based on a belief in the conflict resolution aspects of Aikdo, and the Anger Discharge aspects of Aikdo moves.

There is very little discussion in any of the posts of the spiritual basis of my ideas.

Unintential injury of children is certainly a concern. How does that concern compare with the Reality of the World? Some 6000 of Earth's children die each day from contaminated drinking water. No Headlines, just facts.

http://www.worldvision.org/sponsor.n...MT C=advanced

Search: Deaths Clean Water

The teaching of the branch of Aikido which teaches respect for the Anger of others, rather than the punishment of and countering Anger, is my spiritual belief in answers to Peace.

Developed contries are too busy fighting Wars, and punishing wrong-doers, so there is no time, or effort, left over to take care of safe drinking water for Earth's children.


..

Last edited by Thomas Donelson : 04-26-2009 at 09:35 AM.
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Old 04-26-2009, 11:03 AM   #54
mathewjgano
 
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Re: Dance, Wrist Locks & Sub-Teens

Quote:
Thomas Donelson wrote: View Post
I have sufficient training to have applied wrist-locks for dance in conflict situations, in my life.
Would you be willing to elaborate on this? Different folks have different ideas as to what "sufficient" entails. What exactly are your experiences?
Also, I'm not sure how dance applies to learning joint manipulation. I can see how studying tempo, distance and frame can reinforce learning similar things in Aikido, but I can also see how it could potentially dilute or distract from it.

Quote:
I have used Aikido for the release of anger from others...
How so?

Quote:
If you and others need more practice to be able to confidently utilize wrist-locks for dance, then I would encourage those who lack confidence in their wrist-lock and foot-work skills, to gain further expertise; either at a dojo, or videos, or friends, or volunteering, whatever.
I've done some dance and I've done some Aikido and I'm not sure how wrist locks are for dance. I also don't think these folks are lacking in confidence of themselves, but rather in what they've "seen" of you. It sounds like you're a dancer thinking about teaching budo and while there is overlap between the two, it's pretty slight leaving lots of room for potential harm.

Quote:
I am suggesting that those interested in young people might look at how wrist locks can be taught to youngsters, at earlier ages, as part of channeling Anger, and creating Dialogue.
A good social environment can do wonders in these things. Incorporating Aikido lessons into a dance group can be wonderful too, i imagine. I'm a little worried that you seem so interested in wrist locks though. My opinion is that controlling an attacker's center is harder through the wrist than, say the shoulder, because there are more articulations down the line (elbow, shoulder, etc.) Imagine pushing a broom in a very specific direction, but with a broom that has 2 or 3 hinges along the shaft. It can be done, but it's easier for a neophyte to avoid those hinges and hold the broom closer to the base...if that makes any sense.

Quote:
My interest in Wrist-Lock Dance is also Spiritual, in that harmony with other individuals is not taught by many branches of Aikdo or other Martial Arts. So my stubborness is based on a belief in the conflict resolution aspects of Aikdo, and the Anger Discharge aspects of Aikdo moves.
I think your intentions sound great and really, what you're describing is right up my alley, but serious teaching requires serious study of your own and I think that takes years.
Take care,
Matt

Gambarimashyo!
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Old 04-26-2009, 11:35 AM   #55
Thomas Donelson
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Re: Dance, Wrist Locks & Sub-Teens

The purpose of the wrist-lock, like a Gooseneck, say with two thumbs on the back of the hand of the opponent, and fingers around the palm of the hand of the attacker, is so that I can control my position in relation to the potential paths for the attacker's feet and free arm. Further to give the attacker some area of free movement, so he an express his anger in some movement, yet while I protect myself.

The Dance is really footwork positioning, and discharge of Anger. Problem solving phrases can also be used during the time of the dance. The Attacker is sometimes willing to lessen the intensity of his attack, when both my hands are holding one of his hands, and my feet are positioned away, so the I am not in a polsition to kick or attack the attacker. By taking purely defensive actions, I show respect for the Anger of the attacker, and give him a chance to discuss problem resolution.

There is a sense of loyalty to to the teachings and focus of varous schools of Aikido and Martial Arts. Each branch of Martial Arts has reasons for its focus on some martial art forms, other than wrist-lock dance steps. My suggestion is that everyone should learn the wrist-lock dance, and processes for discharge of Anger. Suggesting universal Wrist-Lock dance training could be expected to meet some moderate to stiff resistance.


..

Last edited by Thomas Donelson : 04-26-2009 at 11:44 AM.
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Old 04-26-2009, 12:20 PM   #56
mathewjgano
 
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Re: Dance, Wrist Locks & Sub-Teens

Quote:
Thomas Donelson wrote: View Post
The purpose of the wrist-lock, like a Gooseneck, say with two thumbs on the back of the hand of the opponent, and fingers around the palm of the hand of the attacker, is so that I can control my position in relation to the potential paths for the attacker's feet and free arm. Further to give the attacker some area of free movement, so he an express his anger in some movement, yet while I protect myself.

The Dance is really footwork positioning, and discharge of Anger. Problem solving phrases can also be used during the time of the dance. The Attacker is sometimes willing to lessen the intensity of his attack, when both my hands are holding one of his hands, and my feet are positioned away, so the I am not in a polsition to kick or attack the attacker. By taking purely defensive actions, I show respect for the Anger of the attacker, and give him a chance to discuss problem resolution.

There is a sense of loyalty to to the teachings and focus of varous schools of Aikido and Martial Arts. Each branch of Martial Arts has reasons for its focus on some martial art forms, other than wrist-lock dance steps. My suggestion is that everyone should learn the wrist-lock dance, and processes for discharge of Anger. Suggesting universal Wrist-Lock dance training could be expected to meet some moderate to stiff resistance.

..
I'm assuming this is in reply to my post, but it doesn't seem to address many of my specific questions.

Gambarimashyo!
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Old 04-26-2009, 03:15 PM   #57
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Dance, Wrist Locks & Sub-Teens

Thomas wrote:

Quote:
Thanks for expressing your non-specific negative feelings. Others have posted non-specific objections, similar to yours. If you have any specific suggestion, I would be interested.
I specifically offered my time (physically) to meet with you in the WASH DC area since I am assuming when you have "Location: DC" that means WASH DC area.

I did so in a very sincere manner to maybe help you in your quest to understand wrist locks and the implications/impacts of them.

I think what it appears you are looking for is validation that you are right and someone that will provide that validation.

I am not convinced at this time that you are sincerely looking to do what is right for these kids, but simply have a dogmatic theory that you want to gain some knowledge from aikido/jiujistu folks in order to further your agenda.

If this is what you are doing, I think it is dangerous, selfish, and in no way is in the spirit of aikido, peace, harmony or has anything to do with conflict resolution.

I pray that your Conflict resolution experiment does not get someone hurt or killed in the process. I specifically do not think you have the slightest clue about what you are doing, and you have demonstrated to me that you are not qualified to do what you are doing in your writings, IMO.

I specifically retract my offer to assist you are anyone that would work with your agenda or organization.

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Old 04-26-2009, 06:24 PM   #58
Janet Rosen
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Re: Dance, Wrist Locks & Sub-Teens

We have had many specific questions and concerns, including the appropriateness of joint locks on youngsters and the fact that there are many other known, demonstrated ways to teach children how to deal with bullies.
I for one will no longer be posting in this thread as it is clear you are either (1) simply seeking validation for what you are already planning to do, ignoring valid concerns that have been raised or (2) trolling.

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 04-27-2009, 01:48 AM   #59
Amir Krause
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Re: Dance, Wrist Locks & Sub-Teens

Quote:
Thomas Donelson wrote: View Post
Thanks for expressing your non-specific negative feelings. Others have posted non-specific objections, similar to yours. If you have any specific suggestion, I would be interested.
I have a specific suggestion, and I wrote it before too - go and learn some Aikido. Come back in a couple of years after you gained an instructor level. At that point, I and many others here would be happy to assist you in ideas for helping youths to face violence.

Quote:
Thomas Donelson wrote: View Post
I have sufficient training to have applied wrist-locks for dance in conflict situations, in my life.
This is the main problem.Reading your posts - I and all others here have yet to understand your past experiance. Where did you learn, for how long, with whom?

Quote:
Thomas Donelson wrote: View Post
I have used Aikido for the release of anger from others, and for creating a dilogue on conflicts.
To use Aikido, you must learn it first. Otherwise you may do lots of things, but not Aikido. Where did you learn, for how long, with whom?

Quote:
Thomas Donelson wrote: View Post
If you and others need more practice to be able to confidently utilize wrist-locks for dance, then I would encourage those who lack confidence in their wrist-lock and foot-work skills, to gain further expertise; either at a dojo, or videos, or friends, or volunteering, whatever.
Me and others are not the subject of this discussion. We are not proposing a way to teach youngsters to defuse violence utilizing our knowledge, YOU ARE.

Thus, my own ability and the ability of other posters in this thread is not important. I can not see how my abilities after over 15 yrs of practice are relevant to a child who learns a few lessons. However, my and the others experiance in teaching Aikido, includign wrist lock and other techniques is important, and so is our understandings of the limitations of said techniques.

Quote:
Thomas Donelson wrote: View Post
I am not suggesting that all other forms of marial arts be discontinued. I am suggesting that those interested in young people might look at how wrist locks can be taught to youngsters, at earlier ages, as part of channeling Anger, and creating Dialogue.
Wrist locks can be applied in anger, and it is even possible to force some of them on someone as attaqck. Wrist lock and other locks can easily create long term damage! There is a reason for the way M.A. are taught, this way cultivates control.

Quote:
Thomas Donelson wrote: View Post
My interest in Wrist-Lock Dance is also Spiritual, in that harmony with other individuals is not taught by many branches of Aikdo or other Martial Arts. So my stubborness is based on a belief in the conflict resolution aspects of Aikdo, and the Anger Discharge aspects of Aikdo moves.

There is very little discussion in any of the posts of the spiritual basis of my ideas.
At least my own understanding of the M.A. world is, the spirtuality\philosophy comes from the limitation of languages in describing our real experiances. When I talk with friends on Aikido application in real situation, they claim I am philosophical while I only try to describe my own very phisical experiance.

You seemed to have good intentions at the beginning of this thread, but not as it progresses. If you refuse to listen and become agrresive in an internet Forum, where is your spirtuality ?

Quote:
Thomas Donelson wrote: View Post
Unintential injury of children is certainly a concern. How does that concern compare with the Reality of the World? Some 6000 of Earth's children die each day from contaminated drinking water. No Headlines, just facts.

http://www.worldvision.org/sponsor.n...MT C=advanced

Search: Deaths Clean Water

The teaching of the branch of Aikido which teaches respect for the Anger of others, rather than the punishment of and countering Anger, is my spiritual belief in answers to Peace.

Developed contries are too busy fighting Wars, and punishing wrong-doers, so there is no time, or effort, left over to take care of safe drinking water for Earth's children.
..
All true, but are you suggesting to increasethe danger to children near you? How is that a positive influence? Spirtually or otherwise?

Amir
P.S.
I agree with Janet Rosen. Though I am giving you this chance to change your way and look for some place to learn.
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Old 04-27-2009, 03:11 AM   #60
Thomas Donelson
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Re: Dance, Wrist Locks & Sub-Teens

Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote: View Post
We have had many specific questions and concerns, including the appropriateness of joint locks on youngsters and the fact that there are many other known, demonstrated ways to teach children how to deal with bullies.
I for one will no longer be posting in this thread as it is clear you are either (1) simply seeking validation for what you are already planning to do, ignoring valid concerns that have been raised or (2) trolling.
There are a number of moves within the category of wrist-locks that place stress on the elbow and shoulder joints. The moves I have suggested are not intended to place much more than straight line stress on the elbow and shoulder. The wrist-lock being the main focal point of joint stress.

Controlling the partner by moving to avoid being hit with the free hand, or kicked, has been achieved, in my experience with youngsters, with a straight line force, through the elbow and shoulder.

The victim partner can keep pressure on the wrist, and using his/her hips, as the focal point, for keeping a pulling pressure, in pretty much a straight line, from the attacker's shoulder. The arm of the attacker does not have to be moved too far backward, to keep in a position of turning the attacker to the right, by keeping the attacker's right arm slightly behind the attacker, by moving the hips to keep an outward strain on the arm, from the wrist.

The idea is to keep ahold of the attacker's wrist, and by centrifical force, and by keeping the hips overbalanced against the attacker's resistance, to keep pressure pulling the attackers arm straight from the shoulder, or slightly behind, to keep out of reach. The victm leans back, to keep a straight force on the attacker's arm.

There may be more to protecting the attacking partner's elbow and shoulder, but so far, I have not found problems.

..
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Old 04-27-2009, 07:19 AM   #61
Thomas Donelson
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Re: Dance, Wrist Locks & Sub-Teens

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
Thomas wrote:

I specifically offered my time (physically) to meet with you in the WASH DC area since I am assuming when you have "Location: DC" that means WASH DC area.

I did so in a very sincere manner to maybe help you in your quest to understand wrist locks and the implications/impacts of them.

I think what it appears you are looking for is validation that you are right and someone that will provide that validation.

I am not convinced at this time that you are sincerely looking to do what is right for these kids, but simply have a dogmatic theory that you want to gain some knowledge from aikido/jiujistu folks in order to further your agenda.

If this is what you are doing, I think it is dangerous, selfish, and in no way is in the spirit of aikido, peace, harmony or has anything to do with conflict resolution.

I pray that your Conflict resolution experiment does not get someone hurt or killed in the process. I specifically do not think you have the slightest clue about what you are doing, and you have demonstrated to me that you are not qualified to do what you are doing in your writings, IMO.

I specifically retract my offer to assist you are anyone that would work with your agenda or organization.
Thank you for having extended your offer of assistance. I suspect that my philosophical path may be at variance to your experience and practice.

Thank you for your suggestions of criterea in evaluating Roy Dean's DVD's. I am still in the process of understanding his lessons. Many techniqes shown on the DVD seem to be more advanced, than appropriate for beginners in Aikdo, regardless of age.

Last edited by Thomas Donelson : 04-27-2009 at 07:34 AM.
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Old 04-27-2009, 07:30 AM   #62
Thomas Donelson
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Re: Dance, Wrist Locks & Sub-Teens

Quote:
Amir Krause wrote: View Post
I have a specific suggestion, and I wrote it before too - go and learn some Aikido. Come back in a couple of years after you gained an instructor level. At that point, I and many others here would be happy to assist you in ideas for helping youths to face violence.

This is the main problem.Reading your posts - I and all others here have yet to understand your past experiance. Where did you learn, for how long, with whom?

To use Aikido, you must learn it first. Otherwise you may do lots of things, but not Aikido. Where did you learn, for how long, with whom?

Me and others are not the subject of this discussion. We are not proposing a way to teach youngsters to defuse violence utilizing our knowledge, YOU ARE.

Thus, my own ability and the ability of other posters in this thread is not important. I can not see how my abilities after over 15 yrs of practice are relevant to a child who learns a few lessons. However, my and the others experiance in teaching Aikido, includign wrist lock and other techniques is important, and so is our understandings of the limitations of said techniques.

Wrist locks can be applied in anger, and it is even possible to force some of them on someone as attaqck. Wrist lock and other locks can easily create long term damage! There is a reason for the way M.A. are taught, this way cultivates control.

At least my own understanding of the M.A. world is, the spirtuality\philosophy comes from the limitation of languages in describing our real experiances. When I talk with friends on Aikido application in real situation, they claim I am philosophical while I only try to describe my own very phisical experiance.

You seemed to have good intentions at the beginning of this thread, but not as it progresses. If you refuse to listen and become agrresive in an internet Forum, where is your spirtuality ?

All true, but are you suggesting to increasethe danger to children near you? How is that a positive influence? Spirtually or otherwise?

Amir
P.S.
I agree with Janet Rosen. Though I am giving you this chance to change your way and look for some place to learn.
I am not claiming to have great experience in teaching Aikido wrist locks to children, and how to avoid getting hit or kicked, while maintaining a standing position, with the attacker. I started, and continue this thread, to learn to better teach children the application of wrist-locks for respectful handling of angry agression from others.

A number of people posting to this thread have asked about my training and experience. I have not had enough to brag about, so I don't give my meager details. My ideas are intended for others to evaluate for themselves, and not to be taken on my authority.

A number of people posting to this thread have suggested I get more experience and training, rather than sharing the fruits of their experience or training.

..

Last edited by Thomas Donelson : 04-27-2009 at 07:40 AM.
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Old 04-27-2009, 07:38 AM   #63
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Dance, Wrist Locks & Sub-Teens

Hey, Jun,

I suggest you lock this thread. Waste of Time would be the comment I would add while doing so.

Just a thought,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 04-27-2009, 08:44 AM   #64
raul rodrigo
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Re: Dance, Wrist Locks & Sub-Teens

I think Ron is right.
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Old 04-27-2009, 09:11 AM   #65
Garth Jones
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Re: Dance, Wrist Locks & Sub-Teens

Thomas,

I teach kids in the age range you are interested it. The 'fruits of my experience and training' - 20 years of training and about 15 of teaching, tell me that:

1. Teaching joint locks to pre-teens is BAD for their joints.
2. A child of that age, without a year or two of training, has NO hope of successfully executing a joint lock under the stress of a real attack (nor do most adults).
3. Movement, timing, getting out of the way of attacks, etc. are central to martial training, not joint locks. Kids need to start with that.

A number of people, including me, have made these points already. They all have a great deal of experience with aikido and have been trying to share and be helpful.

Finally, if you have as little experience with aikido as you say, then you are not qualified to teach. I think everybody has the potential to be an aikido teacher, but it takes dedication and study. So, again, go find a dojo and train for awhile. If you do, I think you will find that the answers to many of your questions will become clear. No amount of writing on an internet forum (or watching of DVDs) can take the place of real training.

Garth Jones
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Old 04-27-2009, 01:28 PM   #66
Basia Halliop
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Re: Dance, Wrist Locks & Sub-Teens

Quote:
A number of people posting to this thread have suggested I get more experience and training, rather than sharing the fruits of their experience or training.
My personal experience is that to learn physical movements, particularly ones that are challenging and have safety implications, you need to learn them in person, and to learn them accurately and safely, you need to practice many times and have experienced people to show you things and different people to try them with many times in different ways. For my part, and I think for many people here, if I tell you to get more training from someone in person, it's not to be rude, it's because that's the best, most helpful advice I have.

Also, at least from my own experience, the challenge in doing wrist locks safely and effectively is not primarily a matter of _knowing_ they are difficult or _knowing_ they can hurt someone (you will figure that out pretty quickly when it's your turn to be uke) -- e.g. it can actually be quite difficult to judge how much pressure you're putting on a person, even in a cooperative friendly environment, since every person's body is so different. It's a _skill_, and it takes practice and concentration and communication and even then accidents can happen. It's also far easier to put on a meaningless ineffective lock than one that actually works.

And I'm also not convinced wrist locks are the most useful thing for your goal.
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Old 04-27-2009, 05:00 PM   #67
mathewjgano
 
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Re: Dance, Wrist Locks & Sub-Teens

Quote:
Thomas Donelson wrote: View Post
A number of people posting to this thread have suggested I get more experience and training, rather than sharing the fruits of their experience or training.

..
Thomas,
At last I have found a thread I feel like a bona fide authority on. It just dawned on me not 20 or so seconds ago that when it comes to talking on the internet about Aikido instead of putting in the time training, I have a particularly robust experience. My experience is that you don't really progress much off the mat. Budo is hands-on work and done best in a concentrated environment with people better than ourselves.
Also, it's one thing to ask about better ways of teaching techniques for avoiding and dealing with conflict; it's another thing entirely to not address an important point many people with a LOT more experience than me (both on the mat and Aikiweb) have made.
The following comes from the fruits of my experience and I am sincere when I say I like the general idea. I believe whole-heartedly in the idea of cross-referencing information (e.g. by mixing different practices like dance and Aikido). That said, I started teaching kids' classes after about a year of 4-day a week training (about 12+ hours a week) plus practicing off-matt very nearly every chance I could get: When my hands were free i practiced hand taiso; when I had open spaces I practiced weapons kata and ukemi; and when ever certain friends were willing, I'd play around with entering and blending ("sparring"). All in all i estimate I put in an average of about 20-25+ (being conservative in my off-mat estimate here) hours a week on and off the mat for that first year. That is my experience, and when i began teaching I felt just barely ready...I also had someone with over 30 years experience assessing me.
Of course, you could have an exceptional knack for this sort of thing. What do I know about you? Nothing, but I do know you'd be an exception proving the rule, which is why I said I think it takes years.
Gambatte and take care,
Matthew
p.s. As regards the possibility of this being a trolling thread: I say let 'em waste their time...I'll even help. As regards Thomas's refusal to address these important points: as long as the discourse remains about Aikido and remains civil, I'd rather the thread stayed open...not that this is a democracy.
Take care all.

Gambarimashyo!
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Old 04-27-2009, 08:49 PM   #68
eyrie
 
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Re: Dance, Wrist Locks & Sub-Teens

Thomas,

Irregardless of the fact that you admit to not having much experience in Aikido, much less teaching Aikido - the fact that NOT ONE person here agrees with your approach, should give you sufficient pause to reconsider your philosophical stance.

Those that have responded, I feel, have done so with the best of intentions, and not without insignificant practical and teaching experience to back up their argument against your intended approach. The fact that they are saying otherwise, is a big red warning light that one would do well to heed.

Again I would strongly encourage you, as someone who is interested in pursuing this particular avenue, to look at the relevant research in this area, as well as what other people in this field are doing.

For example, the game-based learning activity program "Rock and Water" has had favourable reviews from schools that have implemented the program. The program has several publicly available case studies that resulted in highly positive outcomes for the school, and more importantly, the children involved.

Once again, the principles of Aikido are universal, and can be universally applied in various aspects of life, particularly in the areas of personal development and social-cultural development, and specifically within the context being discussed.

I think it is commendable that you are doing something to address the bullying issue in that particular age group. But like others, I question the soundness of your approach - which you, as someone who wishes to enter into this arena, should also do regularly, simply from the perspective of continuous improvement and "best practice".

Ignatius
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Old 04-27-2009, 09:59 PM   #69
Thomas Donelson
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Re: Dance, Wrist Locks & Sub-Teens

I searched Wrist Lock Injuries

Injuries to the Distal Radius:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...?dopt=Abstract

Amazon has products to cure wrist injuries:

http://www.amazon.com/Trainers-Choic.../dp/B000UODKGW

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...8165256AA6eVjH

Search Web MD for Wrist Distal Radius:

http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/colles-fracture

Search Web MD "Child Distal Radius"

"The most common fracture that I see in children occurs at the distal radius - the main forearm bone near the thumb side of the wrist. When we fall forward, we instinctually put our arms out in front to protect our face. This sudden force often breaks this bone, either completely through or just cracked/dented. In most cases, this requires a cast."

http://blogs.webmd.com/all-ears/2008...s-that-is.html

..
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Old 04-27-2009, 10:08 PM   #70
eyrie
 
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Re: Dance, Wrist Locks & Sub-Teens

Which is all the more reason NOT to teach kids wrist locks... and a compelling case for teaching footwork, maintaining balance, and ukemi FIRST???

Ignatius
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Old 04-27-2009, 11:44 PM   #71
Thomas Donelson
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Re: Dance, Wrist Locks & Sub-Teens

Quote:
Ignatius Teo wrote: View Post
Which is all the more reason NOT to teach kids wrist locks... and a compelling case for teaching footwork, maintaining balance, and ukemi FIRST???
Seems like Pediatric Orthopaedics is the topic here.

Did you wish to share your education/credentials/expereince?

Journal articles supporting restricted wrist activities, and limits?



..

Last edited by Thomas Donelson : 04-27-2009 at 11:49 PM.
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Old 04-28-2009, 03:14 AM   #72
eyrie
 
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Re: Dance, Wrist Locks & Sub-Teens

Whoa-kay then... I sincerely wish you all the best in your endeavour.

Ignatius
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Old 04-28-2009, 03:44 AM   #73
Thomas Donelson
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Re: Dance, Wrist Locks & Sub-Teens

Quote:
Ignatius Teo wrote: View Post
Whoa-kay then... I sincerely wish you all the best in your endeavour.
When my children were 7 or 8 years old, I had them in Aikido, and the instructor, who has since deceased, taught my children basic gooseneck wrist locks, and throws or moves ustilizing the elementary wrist locks. My children have grown up without any ill effects on their wrists, elbows or shoulder joints.

This thread illustrates fears that people have for teching children effective Anger Releasing Aikido. Overcoming these exaggerated fears seems to be quite a challenge.

..
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Old 04-28-2009, 04:07 AM   #74
Dieter Haffner
 
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Re: Dance, Wrist Locks & Sub-Teens

Quote:
Thomas Donelson wrote: View Post
This thread illustrates fears that people have for teching children effective Anger Releasing Aikido. Overcoming these exaggerated fears seems to be quite a challenge.
There are people that have become 100 years while smoking their entire life. Does that mean that smoking isn't all that bad after all?
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Old 04-28-2009, 07:51 AM   #75
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Re: Dance, Wrist Locks & Sub-Teens

Quote:
Thomas Donelson wrote: View Post
When my children were 7 or 8 years old, I had them in Aikido, and the instructor, who has since deceased, taught my children basic gooseneck wrist locks, and throws or moves ustilizing the elementary wrist locks. My children have grown up without any ill effects on their wrists, elbows or shoulder joints.

This thread illustrates fears that people have for teching children effective Anger Releasing Aikido. Overcoming these exaggerated fears seems to be quite a challenge.

..
Well I guess that proves it then, You are obviously correct and all of the people here, with decades of experience teaching what you're suggesting are obviously wrong. You came here to ask for input and suggestions, everyone has suggested that you don't teach wristlocks to kids and that you get more experience. It seems to me that you don't want advice you want validation, and it also seems to me that you won't find it here.

"Logical consequences are the scarecrows of fools and the beacons of wise men" - Thomas Henry Huxley
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