Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Techniques

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-26-2009, 07:17 AM   #26
Dazzler
Dojo: Bristol North Aikido Dojo
Location: Bristol
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 659
England
Offline
Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense

Quote:
Daren Sims wrote: View Post
Tai No Henka - Omote & Ura.

Why?

Because TNH contains the foundations of all Aikido hence the vast majority of classes starting with this basic reference.

Cheers

D
and why omote and ura?

Because there is a widespread misconception that Aikido is limited to self-defence...even this thread has it in its title.

By using omote the attacking pre-emptive potential of aikido can be demonstrated.

Regards

D
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2009, 09:24 AM   #27
tarik
 
tarik's Avatar
Dojo: Iwae Dojo
Location: Boulder Creek, CA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 563
United_States
Offline
Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense

Quote:
Mary Eastland wrote: View Post
1. paying attention
2. correct distance

Mary
zanshin and maai. I stand corrected and agree, thank you.

Tarik Ghbeish
Jiyūshin-ryū AikiBudō - Iwae Dojo

MASAKATSU AGATSU -- "The true victory of self-mastery."
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2009, 09:27 AM   #28
tarik
 
tarik's Avatar
Dojo: Iwae Dojo
Location: Boulder Creek, CA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 563
United_States
Offline
Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote: View Post
If you had an opportunity to demonstrate to a group of people and due to time constraints could only show two examples of Aikido, what would you show.
I would probably not show any technique. I'd show two examples of kuzushi, that are occasionally referred to as the "ikkyo" principle and the "shihonage" principle. I'd call them something else, but the demonstrating of kuzushi and how it can affect the spine in each direction is fundamental from my point of view.

Regards,

Tarik Ghbeish
Jiyūshin-ryū AikiBudō - Iwae Dojo

MASAKATSU AGATSU -- "The true victory of self-mastery."
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2009, 06:32 PM   #29
kironin
 
kironin's Avatar
Dojo: Houston Ki Aikido
Location: Houston,TX
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,035
United_States
Offline
Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense

sometimes you hear "there are no stupid questions"

well....

if I am picking out a technique to do before hand, I am in deep do do.

  Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2009, 07:53 PM   #30
dps
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,299
Offline
Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense

Since there is a multitude of techniques to learn in Aikido and it takes many years to learn them, what two techniques would you practice the most to be able to use in a self defense situation. It would be stupid to wait until your attacked to try to figure it out. You react as you train.

David
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2009, 08:13 PM   #31
Erick Mead
 
Erick Mead's Avatar
Dojo: Big Green Drum (W. Florida Aikikai)
Location: West Florida
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,606
United_States
Offline
Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote: View Post
Since there is a multitude of techniques to learn in Aikido and it takes many years to learn them, what two techniques would you practice the most to be able to use in a self defense situation. It would be stupid to wait until your attacked to try to figure it out. You react as you train.
I agree with your last statement. But one does not react with any technique at all, but some technique will find itself blooming naturally on the stem of the trained reaction. There ain't no figgerin'. So the question of technique, in the sense you intend, is precisely the wrong way round.

I can teach almost anybody a technique inside of an hour -- what I cannot easily do, except through mindful repetition and critical correction, is teach the sensibility that makes one perceive that technique in the process of presenting itself in the encounter and the sensibility that makes it capable of being applied in that encounter.

If pressed I would say that if somebody did nothing else, ever, they could do funetori and udefuri and gain the essential sensibility to apply techniques, but not necessarily the sensibility to perceive the opening for any technique. For the the latter I would show kokyu tanden ho (kokyu-dosa), and furitama -- Putting them together? Well -- there is the art, isn't it?

And none of that looks like there is much "martial" in it ... but, of course, half of war is deception,....

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2009, 08:39 PM   #32
eyrie
 
eyrie's Avatar
Location: Summerholm, Queensland
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,126
Australia
Offline
Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense

If you look at the various statistics available, most of them seem to indicate that > 90% of potential situations and encounters can be avoided by simply being aware and taking preventative physical measures.

So, I would agree that spatial awareness and distance - especially distances that can be afforded by simply running away - would form the "primary techniques" (or more accurately, "strategies") of the majority of SD responses.

As far as "secondary techniques" (or more appropriately, "responses") go, the principles of "blending" and "redirection", as applied to psychological and verbal de-escalation, are far more preferable to any physical "technique".

Actual physical "technique" is usually the action of "last resort", when all else fails. Even then, I would certainly not show ANY "technique", much less, ANY specific Aikido technique, simply because ritualized movement, such as that being touted as "technique", is antithetical to the situational dynamics of any encounter.

Rather, I would layout the physical and bio-mechanical basis of the human body, and how its natural physical limitations and weaknesses can be exploited by simple and rather basic gross movements; movements which comply with basic physical laws that would at the very least enable one to temporarily disable and/or disengage from an assailant, to create an escape opportunity - and thereby create distance.

In any case, the legal premise and ramifications of physical self-defence, is sufficient to preclude, and in certain cases even invalidate, the use of many "martial arts" techniques as a legal defence.

Ignatius
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2009, 10:12 AM   #33
gdandscompserv
 
gdandscompserv's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,214
United_States
Offline
Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense

Quote:
Ignatius Teo wrote: View Post
In any case, the legal premise and ramifications of physical self-defence, is sufficient to preclude, and in certain cases even invalidate, the use of many "martial arts" techniques as a legal defence.
Excellent point.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2009, 11:39 AM   #34
dps
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,299
Offline
Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense

Quote:
Ignatius Teo wrote: View Post
. Rather, I would layout the physical and bio-mechanical basis of the human body, and how its natural physical limitations and weaknesses can be exploited by simple and rather basic gross movements; movements which comply with basic physical laws that would at the very least enable one to temporarily disable and/or disengage from an assailant, to create an escape opportunity - and thereby create distance.
And where in Aikido do you find this?

David
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2009, 12:47 PM   #35
tarik
 
tarik's Avatar
Dojo: Iwae Dojo
Location: Boulder Creek, CA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 563
United_States
Offline
Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote: View Post
And where in Aikido do you find this?
Musubi renshu.

Tarik Ghbeish
Jiyūshin-ryū AikiBudō - Iwae Dojo

MASAKATSU AGATSU -- "The true victory of self-mastery."
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2009, 03:50 PM   #36
Flintstone
Dojo: Wherever I happen to be
Location: Zaragoza
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 587
Spain
Offline
Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense

Ok, guys. David is asking a simple question that requires a simple answer. He's obviously and plainly asking for it again and again. This is not about strategy, principles or anything but he simply wants your two techiniques of choice.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2009, 04:06 PM   #37
Erick Mead
 
Erick Mead's Avatar
Dojo: Big Green Drum (W. Florida Aikikai)
Location: West Florida
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,606
United_States
Offline
Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense

Quote:
Alejandro Villanueva wrote: View Post
Ok, guys. David is asking a simple question that requires a simple answer. He's obviously and plainly asking for it again and again. This is not about strategy, principles or anything but he simply wants your two techiniques of choice.
Fair enough.
1) All
2) None.



I think many have come from different paths at the the same answer which is that it has a mistaken premise of "choice" and that there is some generic hierarchy of utility. Neither is true. That doesn't mean it is a BAD question -- it is just a koan of sorts.

"Name the two colors that are your preferred piece of theatre"

"Techniques" are physical metaphors -- shorthand non-verbal
sketches.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2009, 04:08 PM   #38
Keith Larman
Dojo: AIA, Los Angeles, CA
Location: California
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,604
United_States
Offline
Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense

On a (believe it or not) somewhat serious note, the first thing is Run Away! Run Away!.

On a more serious note, since attacks can come in so many different ways I don't really see how one can come up with 2 most important "techniques". Unless you consider "irimi" a technique.

Or maybe... Don't get hit, move, then connect with their center and control them...

Or...

Aiki, I guess...

Not the answer you want, I suppose, but the best I can do.

  Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2009, 04:13 PM   #39
Keith Larman
Dojo: AIA, Los Angeles, CA
Location: California
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,604
United_States
Offline
Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense

Quote:
Alejandro Villanueva wrote: View Post
Ok, guys. David is asking a simple question that requires a simple answer.
True, but sometimes a simple answer isn't possible.

"How do you remove a cancerous tumor? Give a simple answer."

Well, "cut it out." is a simple answer but woefully inadequate. And every other answer assumes a particular type of cancer in a particular area with a patient with specific other issues. And then is the answer still all that simple even if you qualify all those things?

We often make things more complex than they need to be. But sometimes things really are complex.

Or as an old philosophy professor of mine used to say, Occam's razor isn't a law, just a suggestion. Or to quote Gershwin "It ain't necessarily so..."

  Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2009, 10:53 PM   #40
dps
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,299
Offline
Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense

Quote:
Keith Larman wrote: View Post
True, but sometimes a simple answer isn't possible.

"How do you remove a cancerous tumor? Give a simple answer."

Well, "cut it out." is a simple answer but woefully inadequate. And every other answer assumes a particular type of cancer in a particular area with a patient with specific other issues. And then is the answer still all that simple even if you qualify all those things?

We often make things more complex than they need to be. But sometimes things really are complex.

Or as an old philosophy professor of mine used to say, Occam's razor isn't a law, just a suggestion. Or to quote Gershwin "It ain't necessarily so..."
Or to quote Confucius, "Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated."

David
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2009, 11:13 PM   #41
eyrie
 
eyrie's Avatar
Location: Summerholm, Queensland
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,126
Australia
Offline
Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote: View Post
And where in Aikido do you find this?
In the "Universal Exercise"? Wax on, wax off?

I understood the question, but like everyone else has already said.... limiting yourself to specific techniques, in what is essentially a dynamic situation, is fraught with danger. You can certainly demonstrate a "technique" to illustrate a point or physical principle, but I, personally, would not rely on "dojo technique", Aikido or otherwise, to do so.

So the question as to what 2 "primary techniques" one would show is moot. Because, "it depends"... on what variables you are limiting the demonstration to, for the sake of simplicity and what basic assumptions you're making; i.e. What sort of attack? Standing up, on the ground, etc...? What specific principle, or set of principles, are you demonstrating and why? After all, a "technique" is merely how the principles can be applied, within the context of those predefined variables and assumptions, some of which would have to be modified, discarded, or added to in order to encompass the multitude of variations. BTW, this applies directly to dojo techniques as well.

I'm sorry it's not the direct answer you're seeking, and I would be loathed to say, sure, just use this or that technique, as it would unnecessarily stymie your imagination and creativity.

FWIW, I've just come back from conducting a women's self-defence workshop, and NOT one of the many "techniques" I demonstrated looked remotely like an Aikido technique. Although, I am certain that one of the participants who does/did Aikido would have immediately recognized the similarity of principles and potential applications within Aikido itself. Likewise, there were some example scenarios covered within the workshop where an assailant is on top of you. To someone in the know, it might have looked like basic BJJ, or a variation thereof, but I would hardly call it BJJ.

However, I would recommend, that whatever technique you do decide upon, keep it really really simple. If it's simple, it's easy to learn, and more importantly, remember.

Ignatius
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2009, 11:15 PM   #42
dps
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,299
Offline
Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense

Quote:
Erick Mead wrote: View Post
"Techniques" are physical metaphors -- shorthand non-verbal
sketches.
If someone asks you to demonstrate what Aikido is about,
which two physical metaphors would you sketch.

David
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2009, 11:23 PM   #43
Buck
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 950
United_States
Offline
Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense

I don't know. It all depends on the situation, the attack, the type of attack, the number of attackers, the attacker, the environment, the space size, the place, if a weapon is or isn't used, the direction, line and angle of attack, my mobility capability- restrictions due to obstacles, barriers, object interference, moving or stationary hindrances. My location, am I sitting (in a car, chair etc.) or standing.

I would answer all techniques as my only one technique.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2009, 11:29 PM   #44
dps
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,299
Offline
Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense

Quote:
Ignatius Teo wrote: View Post
However, I would recommend, that whatever technique you do decide upon, keep it really really simple. If it's simple, it's easy to learn, and more importantly, remember.
Yes, do you have techniques that you would suggest?

David
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2009, 11:33 PM   #45
dps
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,299
Offline
Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense

Quote:
Philip Burgess wrote: View Post
I would answer all techniques as my only one technique.
I asked for two.

David
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2009, 11:53 PM   #46
eyrie
 
eyrie's Avatar
Location: Summerholm, Queensland
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,126
Australia
Offline
Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote: View Post
Yes, do you have techniques that you would suggest?
No. Even if I did... it wouldn't be an Aikido "dojo technique", so what's the point of asking the same question repeatedly to get the same answer? Sure, I can show you a trick or two, but that's all they would be - tricks, and then I'd have to kill you.

Like I said, what are you aiming to convey? What is the purpose of the demonstration? To show what Aikido is? Or to show self-defense applications of Aikido? In any case, my answer is still "it depends". Since I don't know what you do, can do, don't do, can't do, I can't answer this for you. Only you can.

In case, I wasn't clear before... I would NOT show ANY specific Aikido technique. (That in itself should already raise a few question marks as to why.... and if you don't know the answer to that, then I don't think you have any business demonstrating what Aikido is, or how it can be applied in a self-defense situation). However, if you wish to speak to common principles found in any martial art, that *could* be applied in a contrived self-defence scenario, we can talk about those here, or in another thread.

If you go back and read my first post, everything contained therein can be found within Aikido... both principles and "technique".

Ignatius
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 07:49 AM   #47
Erick Mead
 
Erick Mead's Avatar
Dojo: Big Green Drum (W. Florida Aikikai)
Location: West Florida
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,606
United_States
Offline
Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote: View Post
If someone asks you to demonstrate what Aikido is about,
which two physical metaphors would you sketch.

David
A chain and a handshake. I demonstrate both aiki age and aiki sage with a length of chain. We demonstrate sensitivity in connection to your partners' physical disposition with a handshake. (Ever wonder why people "shake" hands with that typical short, sharp oscillation? ) Furitama.

Same processes are in action in both those examples as are applied in aiki, aiki simply applies them more generally, and in more complex ways -- like seeing the "shape" of your chain that will "push" on his resisting chain when you are "shaking hands." (kokyu tanden ho). But again, these hardly look martial --- I suppose the chain looks a BIT "martial"

Striking too, as I teach it, (empty handed or with sticks), is chain-like. If you doubt that can be done with a stick, try doing the "rubber pencil" trick and ask why your eye sees it oscillate and "bend."

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 06:17 PM   #48
tarik
 
tarik's Avatar
Dojo: Iwae Dojo
Location: Boulder Creek, CA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 563
United_States
Offline
Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense

Quote:
Alejandro Villanueva wrote: View Post
Ok, guys. David is asking a simple question that requires a simple answer. He's obviously and plainly asking for it again and again. This is not about strategy, principles or anything but he simply wants your two techiniques of choice.
Perhaps he should listen to the answers he's gotten. Some of us aren't going to change what we perceive as the correct answer just because he isn't happy to hear it, even assuming that is the actual case.

Tarik Ghbeish
Jiyūshin-ryū AikiBudō - Iwae Dojo

MASAKATSU AGATSU -- "The true victory of self-mastery."
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 07:53 PM   #49
Flintstone
Dojo: Wherever I happen to be
Location: Zaragoza
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 587
Spain
Offline
Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense

Quote:
Tarik Ghbeish wrote: View Post
Perhaps he should listen to the answers he's gotten. Some of us aren't going to change what we perceive as the correct answer just because he isn't happy to hear it, even assuming that is the actual case.
If he's asking for a technique (well, two), then an abstract concept is not to be perceived as the correct answer, IMHO. I agree with what most people's answering here, mind you, but that's not the point. I would say maai, or deai, or awase... but these won't be correct answers to that question.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 10:49 PM   #50
tarik
 
tarik's Avatar
Dojo: Iwae Dojo
Location: Boulder Creek, CA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 563
United_States
Offline
Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense

Quote:
Alejandro Villanueva wrote: View Post
but these won't be correct answers to that question.
Let's agree to disagree.

Tarik Ghbeish
Jiyūshin-ryū AikiBudō - Iwae Dojo

MASAKATSU AGATSU -- "The true victory of self-mastery."
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Full Speed Randori and Self Defense smithid General 40 12-27-2009 11:24 PM
Aikido Techniques are Weapons Techniques ChrisHein Techniques 110 07-28-2007 12:20 PM
Aikido And Self- Defense bratzo_barrena General 25 11-23-2005 12:49 PM
Different names for techniques AikidoNuB Techniques 5 10-19-2004 08:56 PM
Initial techniques Tom Techniques 28 03-16-2002 11:18 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:33 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2017 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2017 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate