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Old 01-28-2009, 11:19 AM   #176
DonMagee
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Re: Got pwned by boxer =-(

Quote:
Ricky Wood wrote: View Post
When you say 'fight' Don, do you mean street brawl, domestic abuse, or perhaps a sports sanctioned 'fight?'
All of the above.

Someone mentioned physics. If you were to teach a person physics you would start at the beginning, not jump into quantum tunneling. The difference here is that all the stuff you learn that lets you learn physics are useful immediately and testable. You wouldn't teach quantum physics at the start and say "Don't worry if you don't understand, in 10 years or so this will all make sense".

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 01-28-2009, 01:12 PM   #177
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Re: Got pwned by boxer =-(

...or you skip the whole physics lesson and simply pick up a rock and drop it and say..."that is gravity at work...what are your questions?"

I think sometimes we get too wrapped up in trying to intellectualize things because we like the whole "mental exercise" of it when we simply just need the experience of "applied theory in action".

Martial arts training can be alot like that. Us Aiki types tend to want to empirically understand things, rationalize, and intellecutalize our practices when really we are simply talking about kicking, punching, off balancing, and taking down...and we simply just need to experience these things for what they are.

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Old 01-28-2009, 05:32 PM   #178
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Re: Got pwned by boxer =-(

Dear Keith, and everyone that thinks there is no use in studing aikido as a martial art... I have used it in reality and IT WORKS, you just have to realise the strangness with which you test youself?
would you have run a marithon with one month of speed walking???? maybe you should take up boxing too, the guy would still beatO you... Aikido as O'Sensei often is quoted as stating is a Deadly art, that eventually can lead to conversion of the self, he also said to his students "never let anyone beat you". Yes trying to blend a boxer in sparing with practice exercises you would learn in one month is RIDICULOUS!!!!!!!!!, the techniques are example of "ways" not absolutes, you also need to apply the correct setting to the correct attack, never tenkan a quick jabber, I also read somwhere that O'Sensei stated that Aikido in real defense is %90 Atemi and that the hardest %10 of blending is the what is practised in class. do not quit everything that can be countered youll never do anything...

in Aiki
Agatsu!!
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Old 01-28-2009, 09:36 PM   #179
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Re: Got pwned by boxer =-(

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
...or you skip the whole physics lesson and simply pick up a rock and drop it and say..."that is gravity at work...what are your questions?"

I think sometimes we get too wrapped up in trying to intellectualize things because we like the whole "mental exercise" of it when we simply just need the experience of "applied theory in action".

Martial arts training can be alot like that. Us Aiki types tend to want to empirically understand things, rationalize, and intellecutalize our practices when really we are simply talking about kicking, punching, off balancing, and taking down...and we simply just need to experience these things for what they are.
Isn't that what Don has been trying to push through this entire thread though? Stop trying to intellectuallize the process and just utilize techniques that plainly work without explanation? Step away from "dead," paired kata/forms and move to "alive" processes? There is no need to think or question about them; they either work or they don't. In a fully resistant environment, either a double leg works or it doesn't...

The great Mark Schultz:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYKMJjzkQ14&e

Keith Lee
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Old 01-31-2009, 01:00 PM   #180
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Re: Got pwned by boxer =-(

I know that folks don't want to hear this but I am going to say it anyway...

1) the teaching methodology or lack thereof in Aikido is a huge problem. The way most folks learn Aikido, they will never figure out much if anything about "aiki".

2) there are people around, within and without the Aikido community who do teach in a fashion which will lead the serious practitioner towards an ability to actually use "aiki" rather than simple muscle power in their practice.

3) None of the ones I know advocate training in a "fully resistive" training environment. The folks who believe that kata training is dead and lifeless don't understand kata training. If it is dead, lifeless, done by rote it isn't proper kata training. Traditionally, the senior person always took the losing role in paired forms. Why? Because it was his job to ASSIST his junior partner in developing his understanding of the movements and principles at work in the kata. It was his job to control the interaction in a way that his partner was forced to access the proper skills. It was not his job to shut him down or to fight with him. Kata training is cooperative for a reason. Generations of warriors learned to fight just this way. The great martial artists of history learned just this way. It is our job in Aikido to make sure our practice is doing just this. Since we have not inherited the tradition of the senior person taking the ukemi and thereby leading his junior towards understanding, there has been a tendency to misunderstand the kata training in our own art. We need to do a better job teaching this.

4) Toby Threadgill Sensei recently said, on one of these threads, that one should train for 6 years or so before one tries to work technique against folks trying actively to counter you or resist. I know people who think they should train in their Aikido in a "fully resistive" fashion and after 25 years they are only good at resisting. They can't actually do anything because they have spent all their time stopping their partners and visa versa. These folks are VERY strong and have absolutely no understanding of "aiki".

Ushiro Kenji Sensei goes on at length in his book about the fact that the emphasis on sport competition has lead martial artists to focus on technique which will allow them to win in the short run. They ignore the deeper truths revealed only through kata practice.

I think it is incredibly arrogant for our current generation to assume that knowledge that has been handed down in various arts for hundreds of years is now suddenly outdated and irrelevant and that we know better.

6) Aikido is the study of connection. The term "aiki" is best thought of as "joining". It is the combination of the physical and mental in a way that allows on to move an opponent's mind so that he moves himself. This requires complete relaxation both physical and mental. It requires letting go of our attachments so that we can step right into the path of a sword cut without fear.

If you wish to reprogram the body and the mind to fundamentally trust that relaxing and accepting an attack is the response that can make one safe you must provide a safe environment in which to do so. Traditional paired kata training provided a structure within which the practitioners could take things right to the edge in relative safety. Additionally, each kata, whether solo or paired, was designed to develop an understanding of specific principles. These might be physical, energetic, breathing, whatever in solo practice. They might involve application of "aiki" principles, control of ma-ai, controlling the partner's perception, etc in partner practice.

But one thing is certain, as far as I am concerned... you will not learn these very sophisticated skills training in a competitive manner. Aiki is about developing physical and mental sensitivity. It requires that you shut up the internal dialogue so you can listen to the partner / opponent. If you are tense you are feeling you not the other. That's true both in the body and in the mind.

Our fearful natures cause us to focus on issues of victory and defeat. What if I am attacked in my home, in my car, at work? What if my attacker knows CMA, MMA, BBJ, my God, he could potentially know almost anything? What do I do? I better study all those arts too so I know how to beat them... If this is what your training is based on, you won't ever get to a decent level of skill in your Aikido.

Folks keep saying that Aikido works because they have used a technique to defend themselves successfully. Others keep saying it doesn't work because their technique failed. Neither one of these camps addresses the fundamental "reson detre" for Aikido. Aikido can be said to "work" if the practice develops your deeper understanding of connection. It fails if it doesn't do so.

If your practice develops your understanding of how the Mind and Body are unified and that on a fundamental level your are simply not separate from those around you, regardless of whether they see themselves as your friend or enemy, then the art "works".

If your training merely results in your ability to throw or lock an opponent who doesn't wish you to do so, then the art hasn't "worked", not in the way that the Founder intended anyway.

An ability to defend oneself on some level is a by-product of proper training; it is not the point of the training. When you have developed some understanding of the principles of aiki on a deeper level, if you want to test your skills with other martial artists, go ahead. But if you have a confrontational, competitive, aggressive attitude in your training at the start you won't get past a mere physical, strength oriented level. You will never get to the "goodies" so to speak.

If you want to use a boxer for your training, ok. "Sparring" is completely wrong thinking. We don't "spar" in Aikido. Dealing with a boxer is essentially a test of your understanding of irimi. But treat it that way. Have your boxer friend come at you with a jab. Then a jab cross. Then any other combination he wishes. At the point at which he can only throw one blow before you have neutralized his next strike you have started to understand irimi. I wouldn't even think about attempting a technique until I could consistently do the "entry". When you get to the point at which he can't even throw the first strike, you REALLY understand irimi. As an exercise that would enhance your practice, that makes sense. But it would still be a mistake until you have practiced long enough that you can do it with the right mind set. You can't be fearful or tense. You can't be worried about being hit. You can't be defensive in your mindset. If you are. The exercise will merely imprint the wrong things in your body and in your mind, over and over. 20,000 repetitions of something wrong will never result in sudden comprehension of what is right. It just imprints the wrong thing on a really deep level.

When the Gracies first hit the big-time with the UFC, it was a positive thing for the martial arts. It woke people up to the fact that grappling skills had dropped out of many arts entirely and helped people see how their training was missing certain elements. But the BJJ of the Gracies and the Machados were still arts geared towards personal development and health. I would consider them to be "DO" arts. But look at what that has unleashed. The very folks who shook up the traditional world have now been discarded and are seen as old-fashioned themselves. Now we have a bunch of folks who the investigative reports tell us take steroids, are addicted to pain killers, whose careers are over and done with in just a few years because they have destroyed their bodies. They are modern day gladiators sacrificing themselves for our entertainment in return for money. And our young men's fascination with this spectacle has lead to a decline in participation in the traditional martial arts. Folks who might have spent their youths pursuing arts which would have eventually taught them some thing of great depth, which might have made their lives better in countless ways off the mat are now simply getting good at fighting. Aikido is absolutely not about fighting. If you want to fight, go do an art that is about fighting. Don't try to make Aikido into something it never was and shouldn't be.

George S. Ledyard
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Old 01-31-2009, 03:00 PM   #181
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Re: Got pwned by boxer =-(

Excellent as usual, Mr Ledyard.

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Old 01-31-2009, 06:43 PM   #182
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Re: Got pwned by boxer =-(

Thanks Sensei.

Part 6 Rocks and I could not have said it better.

William Hazen
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Old 01-31-2009, 07:27 PM   #183
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Re: Got pwned by boxer =-(

Quote:
George S. Ledyard wrote: View Post
..... you will not learn these very sophisticated skills training in a competitive manner .....
And this reminds me of the number in times when I've sparred that I've had to be corrected about something I was missing. I tend to think of sparring that is more right-brain than left brain. You are focusing on the situation and not necessarily on the details of what you're doing. But the sophisiticated part of Aikido is all in the details.

Quote:
..... Don't try to make Aikido into something it never was and shouldn't be.
Absolutely! Every art as something to offer; the tricky part is figuring out what it is.

"I am not a big fat panda. I am the big fat panda." --Po, Kung Fu Panda
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Old 02-02-2009, 03:19 PM   #184
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Re: Got pwned by boxer =-(

Hey Jun,

Unless Sensei Ledyard objects Is there anyway we can pin his post under the heading What Aikido is and what it is not (or something like that.) I think his post is a good basic primer for new folks to Aikiweb.

William Hazen
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Old 02-02-2009, 07:19 PM   #185
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Re: Got pwned by boxer =-(

Quote:
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Hey Jun,

Unless Sensei Ledyard objects Is there anyway we can pin his post under the heading What Aikido is and what it is not (or something like that.) I think his post is a good basic primer for new folks to Aikiweb.

William Hazen
If you look at the archives I think I already wrote that piece on "what it is and what it isn't"... I think I recall writing something to that effect... That's why I sometimes stop posting because most of what I am writing is a restatement of what I have already stated someplace else.
- George

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Old 02-03-2009, 11:12 AM   #186
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Re: Got pwned by boxer =-(

My favorite answer on that subject goes to something Tamura Sensei said on the New York Aikikai summer camp 40th anniversary DVD:

"What is Aikido? I still don't know. But I like it."

Amen.

"I am not a big fat panda. I am the big fat panda." --Po, Kung Fu Panda
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Old 02-03-2009, 12:42 PM   #187
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Re: Got pwned by boxer =-(

Quote:
George S. Ledyard wrote: View Post
If you look at the archives I think I already wrote that piece on "what it is and what it isn't"... I think I recall writing something to that effect... That's why I sometimes stop posting because most of what I am writing is a restatement of what I have already stated someplace else.
- George
So ---- what, you should stop breathing now because you've already done it five hundred million times before???

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 02-04-2009, 12:49 PM   #188
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Re: Got pwned by boxer =-(

Quote:
George S. Ledyard wrote: View Post
Kata training is cooperative for a reason. Generations of warriors learned to fight just this way. The great martial artists of history learned just this way.
Where did Kano come up with the idea of free sparing? It's obvious to me he didn't invent it, but rather decided to put more focus on it. This means that the traditional styles he trained in with generations of history had sparring. It seems to me that the idea of sparing over kata has been around and created just as many great martial artists of history as kata. It is only a modern idea that one or the other HAS to be removed in order to train effectively. It is insane to me to believe that when practicing hand to hand combat soldiers would never actually use it on each other and instead simply trust it will work. Ever great culture on the planet has invented war games to help improve their troops, from wrestling to boxing. Even kendo evolved for the simple reason that far too many students were being harmed while learning kenjutsu? How would this be possible if they were not sparring?

I personally feel that most martial arts suffer from revisionist history. We love to forget little things that counteract our world view. We do it in all aspects of our life, but it is very prevalent in religion and martial arts. We quietly forget which guys had sumo or judo backgrounds or dismiss it and choose to believe that training had no bearing on their success in aikido.

It is easy to point at kids on the internet and say they are the ones that are pushing sparring and aliveness in martial arts and easily forget about Kano, Tomiki, Oyama or even Helio/Carlos/Carlson Gracie. This is a debate as old as kata itself.

Everyone knows where I stand on this, and I do not want to appear as if I am saying you are wrong. I simply do not agree that kata training by itself is what made martial arts what they are. I feel that without aliveness and without sparing you are retarding your growth as a fighter. And just like the anti sparing people choose to call what I do martial sport..I choose not to use the world martial in regards to arts that do not train with aliveness.

Last edited by DonMagee : 02-04-2009 at 12:51 PM.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 02-04-2009, 03:50 PM   #189
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Re: Got pwned by boxer =-(

We have kata too in BJJ and Judo....not that I disagree with Don in the least.

Kata is important. Kata is how we learn to do things the right way.

It is an integral part of the training process. I agree with George on this one as well.

At some point though, you gotta spend a lot of time pushing the limits and exploring the boundaries and figuring out the application of the lessons you learn in kata if you expect to be able to actually use the lessons learn in kata. Hence the whole "aliveness" issue.

I think Kano, Tomiki, Oyama, and the Gracies certainly understood this very well.

I think that there is a disconnect between TMA guys and MMA guys semantically in the use of the word "Kata". MMA guys will sometimes view "Kata" as a dirty word that stifles aliveness and state that they don't do or believe in kata. In fact, you will find that most of them actually do some form of kata in their training, but they dont call it that.

TMA guys sometimes view aliveness as a dirty word that stifles correct development in favor of short term gains and "high percentage" moves in order to win in competition.

I think in reality there is a balance that needs to be done in both these areas. The really good programs and schools do this..that is both kata and aliveness/randori practice.

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Old 02-04-2009, 06:29 PM   #190
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Re: Got pwned by boxer =-(

Quote:
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Where did Kano come up with the idea of free sparing? It's obvious to me he didn't invent it, but rather decided to put more focus on it. This means that the traditional styles he trained in with generations of history had sparring.
Judo, as Kano taught it and as it was done by the greats, like Mifune Sensei, was a kata based system that had shiai. I have yet to hear from any of the old Judo men I know that they think the over emphasis on competition has improved the art, in fact quite the opposite. If you look at the Judo of Mochizuki Sensei, and there is a lot of Judo in Yoseikan Budo it is old style classic style kata based Judo. All of the old guys who had the Judo backgrounds and then became the great Aikido Senseis later had classical kata based Judo backgrounds. I'm not saying that they didn't do shiai nor am I saying that shiai is bad. It has some distinct advantages and its absence in most Aikido systems allows a lot of bad Aikido to exist.

Even Tomiki style Aikido, which is the only style which actually has competition built into its training methodology is still a kata based system which has shiai. It does not overemphasize the competition aspect or at least it didn't when Tomiki Sensei was alive. I gather there has been a shift, just as in Judo, by some teachers after the death of the Founder. Chuck Clark Sensei might be able to provide his take on this as he was an old Tomiki style practitioner before he started his own organization.

Anyway, in the Aiki arts particularly, the folks who dispense with kata in favor of sparring will not figure out the deeper aspects of aiki. I believe that and so far I have not encountered anyone who would make me change my mind on the subject.

George S. Ledyard
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Old 02-04-2009, 08:58 PM   #191
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Re: Got pwned by boxer =-(

Perhaps I'm wrong but I thought that sparring as seen in Judo was created by Kano.

My understanding is that there was "sparring" or at least dueling in traditional Japanese arts but more often than not the matches ended in death. Kano sensei's way of rectifying this problem, as I've heard, was to remove some of the nastier waza and create rules for safe competition.
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Old 02-04-2009, 09:13 PM   #192
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Re: Got pwned by boxer =-(

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Perhaps I'm wrong but I thought that sparring as seen in Judo was created by Kano.

My understanding is that there was "sparring" or at least dueling in traditional Japanese arts but more often than not the matches ended in death. Kano sensei's way of rectifying this problem, as I've heard, was to remove some of the nastier waza and create rules for safe competition.
There was sparring in kenjutsu, usually with fukuro shinai, long before Judo. The debate about sparring vs kata training has been going on for many generations. Both sides have valid points. Kano Sensei did create an art that was meant for personal development rather than combat which did require that certain techniques not be used in shiai. Often these were taught in the katas but not legal for use in competition.

However, starting too soon to do technique in a competitive fashion in an aiki art will screw up the training and will not just not be beneficial but rather it will be detrimental.

Once various mental and physical principles have been imprinted so that they have basically become your default setting, then by all means, go play. See if you can do your stuff. But you will not learn it that way, not correctly and not with any sense of the deeper principles at work in high level practice.

Last edited by George S. Ledyard : 02-04-2009 at 09:17 PM.

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Old 02-04-2009, 09:40 PM   #193
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Re: Got pwned by boxer =-(

What bothers me more than anything is the fact that traditional martial artists seem to think that sparing = competition.

Kano's judo had randori. It was a core principle of his training method. Judo randori is resistive, not competitive. It is alive. While judo has competition, that competition is not randori. While modern judo may focus only on competition, the actual training method is not much different (conditioning, uchi komi, randori, then traditional kata). This is obvious in the grading standards of the kodokan. To quote the judoinfo website

"Jigoro Kano had actually started his training in jujitsu at the age of 17, but his instructor, Ryuji Katagiri, felt he was too young for serious training. As a result, Katagiri gave him only a few formal exercises for study and let it go at that. The determined young man was not about to be put off so easily, however, and finally wound up at the dojo of Hachinosuke Fukuda, a master in the Tenjin-Shinyo School of Jujitsu who had been recommended by Dr. Yagi.

Fukuda stressed technique over formal exercises, or kata. His method was to give an explanation of the exercises, but to concentrate on free-style fighting in practice sessions. Jigoro Kano's emphasis on "randori" in Judo undoubtedly found its beginnings here under Fukuda's influence. The Kodokan's procedure of teaching beginners the basis of Judo, then having them engage in randori and only after they had attained a certain level of proficiency, teaching them the formal kata, came from Fukuda and a later sensei named Iikubo."

Both Kano and tomiki saw the holes in a kata only approach to training. Tomiki writing "From a practical point of view, however, it is impossible for the student of jujutsu to receive sufficient training in the practical applications of the myriad techniques that he studies through just one form of shiai. (For him, doing Judo shiai is a very good way to improve his throwing and his ground work, but gives him no chance to practice defense against a lunging, or kicking, or stabbing opponent.) At the very least it is necessary to have two kinds of practice for the two kinds of attacks described in points 1 and 2 above.". This appears to me to be his reasoning behind the competition element of his style of aikido, trying to further kano's vision.

Kano was also quoted as saying "I think that there must be a method of randori and shiai that includes the atemi-waza, provided that we devise it gradually and only after thorough investigation. That system, however, will not be as easy to formalize as ones in which the relative abilities of the competitors are decided by throwing (nage) or restraining (osae) an opponent."

Notice he mentioned randori and shiai. Stressing further that sparing is not competition, but rather the practical application of technique. I think that if kano was alive today, he would favor MMA as a system of randori and shiai (probably a bit more refined) that he was looking for.

I will also agree that two person kata (aka non-resistant drilling) is important to grasp the physical movement required to perform a technique. Everyone has to do this, you can't just fight and expect to learn skill. I simply disagree on the focus and the complete lack of randori. Further more I feel that shiai very beneficial, but I would not put it in the necessary area that I would put kano's randori (sparring).

This is all I was trying to bring up, that adding varying levels of resistance to training is nothing new and in my opinion necessary if your goal is actually learning to functionally use martial techniques in martial settings. You don't even have to be competitive to do it.

I can't say I've tried to win a sparing match sense I was a white belt. Instead I have personal goals I'm trying to achieve. Be it help the new student work on escapes, try some new idea I've been working on, or practicing a technique. It is personal time where I am allowed to be creative, allowed to think, and allowed to internalize everything I was given and make it my own.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 02-09-2009, 11:27 AM   #194
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Re: Got pwned by boxer =-(

Quote:
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I think that if kano was alive today, he would favor MMA as a system of randori and shiai (probably a bit more refined) that he was looking for.
I am sorry but I think that Kano would absolutely detest what MMA has become.

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Old 02-09-2009, 12:50 PM   #195
DonMagee
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Re: Got pwned by boxer =-(

Quote:
George S. Ledyard wrote: View Post
I am sorry but I think that Kano would absolutely detest what MMA has become.
I have to ask why.

Besides the drama seen on tv, mma has all the same traits of any other martial art. It teaches hard work, creative reasoning, tactics, honor, valor, integrity, etc.

I've been treated with more respect in MMA gyms then in most 'martial art' schools.

Case in point. If I go to a gym to learn how to strike, I don't get a lecture on how my judo/bjj training is going to get me killed in the street and is worthless. But if I go to a TKD or kung fu school I am likely to hear just that.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 02-10-2009, 03:33 PM   #196
Aikibu
Dojo: West Wind Dojo Santa Monica California
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Re: Got pwned by boxer =-(

With all due respect Don,

You've kicked that dead horse for years

Kano and the old greats knew differently.

My own experiance when visiting other Arts has never mirrored yours except among certain folks who are passing through the "technique as a bright shiny thing" stage aka Black Belt Disease.

I personally love MMA and IMHO the jury is still out on if it becomes a true Martial "Art"...With folks like Lyoto Michida, Fedyor and GSP though there is hope it will move beyond a system of techniques into a vehicle for personal and spiritual growth. Your experiance seems to indicate that it is evolving in that direction.

William Hazen
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Old 02-10-2009, 10:24 PM   #197
earnest aikidoka
Location: singapore
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Re: Got pwned by boxer =-(

in my opinion, you just have to be more flexible, if ikkyo and sankyo does not work, use other techniques, shiho nage( just saying) perhaps.

all in all, aikido isn't bout locking or throwing your opponent, i mean, if at the instant he launches his attack and you do an irimi and shove him off balance, isn't that aikido? cos, you are using the strength of his attack against him. right?
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Old 02-13-2009, 01:55 PM   #198
ChrisMoses
Dojo: TNBBC (Icho Ryu Aiki Budo), Shinto Ryu IaiBattojutsu
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Re: Got pwned by boxer =-(

Sorry to resurrect this thread, but I just found this video today. (warning, awesome and loud Monster Magnet soundtrack).

This is just a phenomenal irimi-nage throw by the *REF*. Just freaking brilliant. Notice how he completely controls the boxer/fighter's head and just lofts the dude. And check that posture at the end of the throw. You don't see something this textbook happening out of a spontaneous situation very often. I also like that while the ref is obviously versed in striking (note the stance he takes as the guy goes back to his corner) he chose to deal with this guy by throwing him. Love it.

Had to share and this seemed as good a place as any. Enjoy.

Chris Moses
TNBBC, "Putting the ME in MEdiocre!"
Budo Tanren at Seattle School of Aikido
Shinto Ryu Iai-Battojutsu
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Old 02-23-2009, 01:34 PM   #199
Lionel Mendez
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Re: Got pwned by boxer =-(

Sorry for posting in this seemingly old thread, but I wanted to add my opinion.

1. The OP aikido's got owned...that doesn't mean that Aikido gets owned by box, or the other way around.

2. The old "Is aikido effective vs. you name it" or "Is aikido effective in a real life situation?" should be replaced by "Is YOUR aikido effective in real life or against any odds?".

3. Aikido is not necessarily NOT EFFECTIVE without the use of a weapon of any kind. You don't need a stick or any weapon to equalize a confrontation vs. a boxer.

4. In our Aikido family we like to improve and keep developing our Aikido so we do crosstraining. We have found ways to manage ourselves against for example a boxer's jabs, hooks and uppercuts. You need to observe, analyze, study and practice...Aikido is a martial art and for me is also a science. And there's always a way to improve your technique.

5. There is a lot of philosophy to Aikido...it is the sword that gives life...but nonetheless a sword. To me the path is to harmonize with the universe and sometimes that includes to end conflicts even before they start and that the true challenge to overcome is within oneself...but as part of that path there is our connection with the world, with the outside nature of things and we must be prepared for that in our quest.

6. The sword had the purpose to end conflicts, by sometimes ending lives. The beauty of Aikido is that being a sharpened sword capable of ending lives...it chooses not to...being as it is...a means to end lives and contrary to its purpose...freely decides to do exactly the opposite...to honor and respect life. But that doesn't negates the fact that it is still a sword and that it is still sharp. What beauty, what honor, what respect could one have for the sword respecting life, if it wasn't sharpened and fully capable of ending it?

7. With all due respect to the people that believe that there is no conflict, no combat, no struggle in Aikido...please don't rob the sword from its sharpened edge, don't take the soul from the sword. Aikido is a martial art...there is the "art" part of it...art means expression...mentally and spiritually...but there's also the "martial" part to it...mentally and spiritually too. It is expression of oneself through the martial way.

8. Some people think that because Aikido is "spiritual" and "philosophically enlightening" one should not think of conflict, and avoid confrontation, and stay out of the "street" since it is not Aikido purpose, Aikido is "different", is not as "effective" as other "combat oriented" martial arts so we should focus in the spiritual side.

But I believe the contrary. I believe that because THEIR Aikido is different and not as effective, they prefer to think that it is only philosophical and spiritual. That takes less commitment and less effort.

9. Relating to the original post, some people like to buy the magic box...the Aikido that will bring you superpower over every other martial art. And people also want to find in Aikido only the answer to their martial questions. The journey never ends and Aikido is just one path to it.

My humble opinion.
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Old 02-24-2009, 09:06 AM   #200
Disillusioned
Location: Tokyo
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Re: Got pwned by boxer =-(

The deadest horse you can beat is discussing aikido vs. any other martial art.

If you train aikido for fighting, self-defense or any other kind of "martial" purpose, you are basically admitting you've never been in a combat situation with someone over 13, male or above 50 kilos.

Its obvious to anyone who has stepped outside of their little fantasy that Boxing, BJJ, SAMBO, MT, etc will dominate a pure aikidoka. Its due to them being systems that require you to step in the fire and impose your will on another resisting human being. Aikido is more about the opposite. Which to be honest, the world needs a little more of.

That being said, any combat training is better than none.
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