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  #151  
Old 09-12-2008, 10:25 AM
Peter A Goldsbury AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
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Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 10

INTERLUDE
IV: Iemoto and Iwama

An earlier column (Column 5) finished with O Sensei retreating to his Aiki-en (Aiki Farm) in Iwama, leaving his son Kisshomaru in charge of the Tokyo dojo. There are a number of problems relating to Morihei Ueshiba's...
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Old 10-21-2008, 04:47 AM   #150
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Re: Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 10

Quote:
Peter A Goldsbury wrote: View Post
So here is a promise. In October the IAF will hold a huge Congress in Tanabe, which is O Sensei’s birthplace. Among the shihans attending will be Hiroshi Tada, Nobuyoshi Tamura and Hiroshi Isoyama, but the aikido demonstration will be held at Kumano Jingu, close to the Kumano Juku of Hikitsuchi Sensei, with demonstrations given by his senior students. I will ask….and report.

Best wishes to all,

PAG
Well, the Congress passed off successfully and I had time to talk to a number of shihans about Shochikubai no Kenpo. All affirmed that O Sensei mentioned the phrase in his lectures/explanations, but only one immediately couched these explanations in terms of , , and , in that order. However, even this shihan did not equate O Sensei's explanations with any particular sword kata.

Best wishes,

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Old 10-21-2008, 08:07 AM   #151
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Re: Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 10

Thanks Peter,

Looking forward to more of the "fruits" of your research.

All the best,
Allen

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Old 10-21-2008, 01:24 PM   #152
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Re: Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 10

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Peter A Goldsbury wrote: View Post
Well, the Congress passed off successfully and I had time to talk to a number of shihans about Shochikubai no Kenpo. All affirmed that O Sensei mentioned the phrase in his lectures/explanations, but only one immediately couched these explanations in terms of , , and , in that order. However, even this shihan did not equate O Sensei's explanations with any particular sword kata.

Best wishes,
No mention of "もう一人の植芝" though?

~ Allen Beebe
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Old 10-21-2008, 01:31 PM   #153
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Re: Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 10

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Although often downplayed now days, John Stevens has taught me a version of the sho-chiku-bai kenpo and as I remember he stressed that it contained the possibility of a more free form back and forth than is usually seen in aiki-weapons kata. I think he also referenced a non-aikido source for some of it. If I get to see him this fall I might try to get some more info on it.

Best,
Ron
Did this turn up anything Ron?

Regards,
Allen

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Old 10-21-2008, 06:09 PM   #154
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Re: Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 10

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No mention of "もう一人の植芝" though?
No. None whatever.

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Old 10-22-2008, 09:36 AM   #155
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Re: Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 10

I'm sorry, I missed him this year due to work and family obligations. It's the first time since he started coming here to Phila. that I missed him, I think.

I do hear he is doing much better now, I will try to email him, perhaps I can ask then.

Best,
Ron (stupid power outages...the wind here now is causing me major headaches...)

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 10-22-2008, 10:34 PM   #156
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Re: Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 10

Oh well, that's life. Hope to see you in Washington in March though.

Allen

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Old 11-02-2008, 08:19 PM   #157
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Re: Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 10

I'd just like to point out that I waited a whole month this time before I said . . .

"When's the next column going to be posted?"

Allen Beebe
(The very image of self-control and repose . . . )

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Old 11-02-2008, 09:06 PM   #158
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Re: Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 10

Hello Allen,

You might not know that there is an entire thread devoted to this question. It is here: http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15186 It is great honor.

However, since Ellis is due to publish his book soon, I have changed the order. I hope to send Jun the next column for December.

PAG

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Old 11-03-2008, 08:08 AM   #159
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Re: Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 10

Thanks Peter,

I'll check the thread out.

"Soon" is a relative thing IMO.

Thanks for letting me know that the next one will be out in December, or a little later. At least I know better than to hold my breath!

Still, looking forward to both Ellis's book* and your continuing articles.

Thanks again and take care,
Allen

* Just had a very pleasant conversation with Ellis and I thought he mentioned Spring as a publication date for the book. But then we talked about a variety of topics and I have popcorn for brains so I could easily be mistaken . . . I hope I am!

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Old 11-15-2008, 03:54 AM   #160
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Re: Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 10

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Ron Tisdale wrote: View Post
I do hear he is doing much better now, I will try to email him, perhaps I can ask then.

Best,
Ron (stupid power outages...the wind here now is causing me major headaches...)
Hello Ron,

Just noticed the second part of your post. Has Mr Stevens been ill?

When you contact him, give him my best regards and tell him that I fully appreciate the results of his struggles with Aiki Shinzui.

Best,

PAG

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Old 11-15-2008, 04:27 AM   #161
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Re: Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 10

Hello Everyone,

Actually, consequent on the last post to Ron Tisdale about Mr Stevens, I should indicate that the question why O Sensei abruptly stopped training in the Tokyo Kobukan and moved to Iwama is still a relatively unresolved issue. In this 10th column, I presented the issues as clearly and honestly as possible and I am somewhat surprised at the large number of views and replies.

These columns are actually the preliminaries for a narrative history of aikido from the Daito-ryu origins until the present, with all the warts allowed to appear.

In respect of the move to Iwama, I discuss the revelations of 1940 and 1942, which were played down by Kisshomaru Ueshiba and others, who sought to create a 'postwar' history that would be cleansed of all prewar-style revelations from Shinto deities.

(Of course, to appease these same deities, who probably do not differentiate between prewar and postwar Japanese history, I might have to publish the narrative history posthumously.)

However, I ask: if there is something that folks know about the move to Iwama that I do not know, please feel free to publish, or let me know.

The narrative part of these columns will resume with Column 13, entitled, "Kisshomaru Creeps into the Saddle".

Best wishes,

PAG

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Old 12-20-2008, 06:00 AM   #162
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Re: Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 10

In connection with the friendship between Morihei Ueshiba and Okawa Shumei, the right-wing ultranationalist discussed in the column, here is the text of a letter written by Ueshiba to Okawa in December, 1954. This is well after Okawa's war crimes trial, his confinement to a mental hospital as a result of his behavior at the trial, and his subsequent release from hospital.

The letter is good evidence of the friendship between Ueshiba and Okawa, but also of the rather different levels involved. Ueshiba uses honorifics and refers at the end to Okawa Shumei Sensei (which is the normal form of address for a politician / known political fixer). In the letter Ueshiba apologizes that they were not able to meet. Apparently, Okawa went to visit Ueshiba in Tokyo, but he was not there, and Ueshiba profusely apologizes and hopes that they will be able to meet in 1955.

The letter is some evidence against the thesis that O Sensei was holed up in Iwama until 1956 onwards.

I have transcribed the text to Roman script, but have not had time to make a translation. I will do this in 2009 if time permits.

Best wishes to all,

----------

昭和二十九年十二月十三日 茨城県岩間町 合気会より。
Showa 29 nen 12 gatsu 13 nichi Ibaraki-ken Iwama-machi Aikikai yori.

謹啓 時下初冬到来の候益々御健勝の段御喜び申上ます。
Kinkei Jika shoto torai no ko masumasu gokensho no dan oyorokobi moshi agemasu.

陳者此度は小生の紀州行の都合にて拝眉の機を延引致し洵に申訳なく残念至極に存じました。
Nobureba (sate) konotabi wa shosei no Kishu yuki no tsugo nite haibi no ki wo enin itashi makoto ni moshi wake naku zannen shigoku ni zonjimashita.

帰京後直に御目にかヽる所存でございましたが、しばらく東京を不在にしておりたる為所用繁多を極め、またまた、延引いたし恐縮に存じます。
Kikyo go jika ni ome ni kakaru shozon de gozaimashitaga, shibaraku Tokyo wo fuzai ni shite oritarutame shoyo hanta wo kiwame matamata, enin itashi kyoshuku ni zonjimazu.

其上老令の故もあり、歯の治療に忙殺されている有様でございます。
Sonoue rorei no yue mo ari, ha no chiryo ni bousatsu sarete iru arisama de gozaimasu.

勝手ながら来春早々御目にかゝる時間を是非とも都合仕るべく心掛けております故、何卒違約の儀、平に御容赦
の上、新年の御慶申上げる機会を御与え下され度、御願申上ます。
Katte nagara raishun sousou ome ni kakaru jikan wo zehi tomo tsugo tsukamatsuru-beku kokorogakete orimasu yue, nanitozo iyaku no gi, hirani goyosha no ue, shinnen no gyokei moushi ageru kikai wo oatae kudasare taku, onegai moshi agemasu.

いづれ拝眉の上。            勿々不一
izure haibi no ue. Sousou fuitsu.
十二月十三日           植芝盛平
12 gatsu 13 nichi Ueshiba Morihei
大川周明先生 侍史
Okawa Shumei Sensei jishi
(宛先)神奈川県愛甲郡中津
(atesaki) Kanagawa-ken Aikou-gun Nakatsu

Last edited by Peter Goldsbury : 12-20-2008 at 06:02 AM.

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Old 12-20-2008, 08:03 AM   #163
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Re: Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 10

Very interesting. Thank you.

DH
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Old 12-20-2008, 10:24 AM   #164
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Re: Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 10

先生、勝手ながら翻訳させて頂く存じます。
是非御修正をお聞かせになるよう、お願い申し上げます。

"December 13, 1954 Aikikai, Iwama Town, Ibaraki Prefecture

"Greetings. I am glad that you are in good health in these early days of winter.

"I exceedingly regret that we were not able to meet recently due to my trip to Wakayama.

"I had planned to see you as soon as I returned to Tokyo, but as I am extremely busy with a number of matters, and will not be in Tokyo for some time, I am afraid we must put off meeting yet again.

"Also, being old of age, I am also terribly busy having my teeth worked on.

"I would by all means like to make time to see you in the coming spring, so I humbly ask for your forgiveness for not meeting as promised, and hope that you will give me a chance to wish you a happy New Year.

"Until we meet again. Very, very sincerely yours,

"Ueshiba Morihei December 13

"Respectfully to Okawa Shumei Sensei
Nakatsu, Aiko County, Kanagawa Prefecture"

Josh Reyer

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Th'assay so harde, so sharpe the conquerynge...
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Old 12-20-2008, 04:43 PM   #165
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Re: Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 10

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Very interesting. Thank you.

DH
Hello David, Josh,

I forgot to mention the source. It is p. 638 of 「大川周明関係文書」, (Okawa Shumei Kankai Bunsho), published in 1998, and now long out of print. Okawa, it seems, is not so popular in Japan these days.

Best wishes,

Peter Goldsbury

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Old 01-28-2009, 01:30 PM   #166
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Re: Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 10

The Pine, the Bamboo, and the Plum.
The make up of Ki that we are training to purify
From where do they arise?
The Water and Fire of the change in the self.
- Morihei Ueshiba

Hi Peter,

This one caught my eye this morning. I would like to see it in Japanese (if you know where this one came from), but it would seem to imply that Sho, Chiku and Bai are the "make up of Ki that we are trying to purify" and are referring to something significant in that they arise from "The Water and Fire of the change in the self."

This seems a distant cry from "Ken set 'A' or some other "set menu" like item that wouldn't probably be seen to "make up Ki" or as a result of "The Water and Fire of change in the self" or at the very least, if it were a "set Menu" item, it probably wouldn't be deserving of a doka I would think.

I'm sure that Mike Sigman will see significance in the phrases, "Ki that we are training to purify" and "Water and Fire of the change in the self." Perhaps he might have ideas about three things that "make up" the "Ki that we are trying to purify" that arise from "The Water and Fire of the change in the self."

Manifest, Hidden, Divine
Triangle, Circle, Square

Three seems to important relationally after two

In, Yo
Fire, Water
Red, White

after one

O-moto

after . . .

anyway, after seeing the doka I thought I'd pull that smoldering log back out and throw it on top of the fire. Maybe some one will be able to "breathe some life" into its embers and produce some "heat and light." Even a little "insight" can posses "jewel" like value upon "reflection" providing the wisdom to "cut through" one's ignorance. ( sorry!)

Hope all is well,
Allen

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Old 01-28-2009, 05:19 PM   #167
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Re: Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 10

Good morning, Allen,

As it so happens, there will be some discussion of this very matter in TIE 11, a few versions of which I have already sent to Jun and the final version of which will go in a few days, just as soon as I have had the last Japanese language check. The main topic of TIE 11 and 12 is language and aikido and so questions of metaphors and codes will come up, especially in TIE 12. For TIE 11, you will need all your Japanese dictionaries.

Best wishes,

PAG

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Old 01-28-2009, 06:42 PM   #168
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Re: Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 10

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. . ., you will need all your Japanese dictionaries.
Wow! You have the power to turn eager anticipation into horrified dread with just a few words . . . you must know kotodama!

Guess I should quit dreaming and live in naka ima.*

Kind regards,
Allen

*although, knowing me, I'll probably wind up in a suburb.

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Old 01-28-2009, 06:50 PM   #169
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Re: Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 10

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Allen Beebe wrote: View Post
This seems a distant cry from "Ken set 'A' or some other "set menu" like item that wouldn't probably be seen to "make up Ki" or as a result of "The Water and Fire of change in the self" or at the very least, if it were a "set Menu" item, it probably wouldn't be deserving of a doka I would think.
I suppose this is more heat than light, but I get the distinct impression, Mr. Beebe, that you read post #26 in this thread, and then ignored everything else I wrote.

"Ken set A" is an idea purely of your own suggestion. No one else has suggested it. Please reread this thread, in particular my explanations and clarifications to Mr. Doug Walker.

With regards,

Josh Reyer

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Old 01-28-2009, 07:12 PM   #170
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Re: Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 10

Here is the Japanese text etc.

松竹梅 Shochikubai
錬り清めゆく neri kiyome yuku
気の仕組 ki no shikumi
いつここ/ いずこに生るや itsukoko / izuko ni naruya
身変るの水火 mikawaru no iki

The Japanese text of Abe (first) differs from that of Stevens (second) in the fourth line.

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Old 01-28-2009, 10:54 PM   #171
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Re: Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 10

Hello Josh,

I did not receive the impression from Allen's post that he was referring specifically to the earlier discussion in this thread. Ueshiba mentions shochikubai (only, not specifically shochikibai ken) in a number of places, as he does ki no shikumi 気の仕組み and iki (usually read as suika 水火). I suspect that the designation for the swordwork came after the more general use of the phrase.

Best wishes,

PAG

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Old 01-28-2009, 11:35 PM   #172
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Re: Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 10

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Joshua Reyer wrote: View Post
I suppose this is more heat than light, but I get the distinct impression, Mr. Beebe, that you read post #26 in this thread, and then ignored everything else I wrote.

"Ken set A" is an idea purely of your own suggestion. No one else has suggested it. Please reread this thread, in particular my explanations and clarifications to Mr. Doug Walker.

With regards,
Hi Josh,

You are right. More heat than light I'm guessing. I apologize if my post prompted that reaction in you. While I'm sure that I can profitably re-read this thread several times with great benefit, particularly with regard to Peter's contributions, I had read (and re-read) your and Doug's exchange at the time and moved on.

(BTW, my suggestion was that Sho Chiku Bai was a referent for a Kenpo* not a particular Ken Kata. I did, however, make the mistake of somehow erroneously thinking that the terms Sho Chiku Bai had a direct relationship with Shinkake Ryu which, thanks in no small part to you, it is now my understanding, that they do not.)

Anyway, the question of my latest post was directed at: What do 松竹梅 represent to Ueshiba Morihei when he writes:

錬り清めゆく
気の仕組
いつここ/ いずこに生るや
身変るの水火

?

Perhaps I'm "Dan Brown-ing" the Doka or my Japanese is so poor that the obvious escapes me. But I read that, and it seems to me that, as represented by this Doka, 松竹梅 was a very significant, albeit esoteric, referent for Ueshiba.

Thanks for the time,
Allen

*A suggestion that seems to have been borne out by quotes of Ueshiba within this thread I believe.

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Old 01-28-2009, 11:37 PM   #173
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Re: Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 10

Quote:
Peter A Goldsbury wrote: View Post
Here is the Japanese text etc.

松竹梅 Shochikubai
錬り清めゆく neri kiyome yuku
気の仕組 ki no shikumi
いつここ/ いずこに生るや itsukoko / izuko ni naruya
身変るの水火 mikawaru no iki

The Japanese text of Abe (first) differs from that of Stevens (second) in the fourth line.
Cool! Thanks Peter!

Sincerely,

Allen

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Old 01-28-2009, 11:42 PM   #174
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Re: Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 10

Quote:
Peter A Goldsbury wrote: View Post
Hello Josh,

I did not receive the impression from Allen's post that he was referring specifically to the earlier discussion in this thread. Ueshiba mentions shochikubai (only, not specifically shochikibai ken) in a number of places, as he does ki no shikumi 気の仕組み and iki (usually read as suika 水火). I suspect that the designation for the swordwork came after the more general use of the phrase.

Best wishes,

PAG
Yep! (Thanks again Peter!) I hope that comes across clearly in my response to Josh. If not . . .

"What Peter said Josh!"

All the best,
Allen

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