dojo frat boys

Chris Hein wrote: However if you're just mad because you think they are unfair, and you don't like it, get over yourself. They likely train together because they are all at the same level. They want to go hard with each other, and get the most out of their training. From the outside it may look like an elite club. They don't like kyu ranks and women. That makes you sad. From the inside, it probably seems to them, like they want to train really hard and have found a group they are comfortable with. They feel safe with each other, and can explore Aikido together. It likely doesn't have anything to do with you, kyu's or women.

I have to disagree that exclusion is appropriate in an aikido dojo. Working with kohai helps teach us the patience, humility, social responsibility, and generosity that are intrinsic to our art. I would even say that it's the responsibility of sempai to actively try to work with kohai. If those guys want to train together, they should do so at an open mat time...

Yoshinkan dojo have a very easy answer for some of this...

We line up shite and uke facing each other.
We train.
Instructor says "kotite!"
Everyone on one side of the line moves left. The ones at the far left move to the front of their line.

Repeat, and rinse well afterward.

Best,
Ron (in my case rinse very well. I sweat like a demon, and the tobacco smell just pours out of my pores. EEEeeeewwww....)

Russ Qureshi wrote: Hi Maki Otoshi, Rachel hit the nail on the head here: "They are offering you a lesson in patience and understanding ..." I just read somewhere recently a quote from Maya Angelou...."If you can't change something that's bothering you, change the way you think about it." Hope it helps,

I don't know about the original poster, but your suggestion was inspirational. I try to incorporate the principles of aikido into my everyday life.

This morning, a coworker was telling me that she found one of her clients masturbating naked and moaning in a room. For some strange reason, she seemed disturbed.

I suggested she be flattered that a client would make her a part of his sexual fantasy. I also suggested she graciously accept his actions as a compliment.

Unfortunately my coworker isn't very patient nor understanding. She's still going to be bothered by her client's actions because she won't change the way she thinks about it.

YoungIn Park

Young-In Park wrote: I don't know about the original poster, but your suggestion was inspirational. I try to incorporate the principles of aikido into my everyday life. This morning, a coworker was telling me that she found one of her clients masturbating naked and moaning in a room. For some strange reason, she seemed disturbed. I suggested she be flattered that a client would make her a part of his sexual fantasy. I also suggested she graciously accept his actions as a compliment. Unfortunately my coworker isn't very patient nor understanding. She's still going to be bothered by her client's actions because she won't change the way she thinks about it. YoungIn Park

Too much reading of YouTube comments compels me to double-check: That -was- sarcastic, right?

Take the leader of the "clique" and drop him on his head over and over in class, in front of the rest of them.....

Oh....did I just type that ????

Geesh, I need to remember to think in my head

I agree with others regarding this really is an insignificant number. Normally, most dojo will have one or two jerks. Well, due to your dojo's size you get 8 - 12. It's the same percentage of jerks.

Please listen to Rachel she gives great advice. She helped me overcome some issues I had in the past. And well, her advice for me was right. Her's towards you , I'd bet will be right, too. It will work out in the long run.

I also agree, they probably are a little clueless. The young guys probably just need some young guys to train with, just like sometimes I just need another woman to train with. Be thankful, they have other young bucks to train with.

I gotta admit I am jut amazed at how everyone is willing to put a label on these "dojo frat boys" without knowing the other side of the story.

What if it was the flip side of the story and I was complaining about the "aiki fruities" who never let me play because I was too vigorous and they excluded me?

Be prepared for what Life or Aikido hands you and appreciate the unexpected and what you learn for it...and don't be afraid to stick you finger in the flame every once in a while. You learn from the burn.

Those who are posting replay to the starter of this topic: do you realize this topic is 4 YEARS OLD ????? (06-20-2004 )


May be this guy is today aikido shihan, and you still give him some adivces

Howard Popkin wrote: Take the leader of the "clique" and drop him on his head over and over in class, in front of the rest of them..... Oh....did I just type that ???? Geesh, I need to remember to think in my head

Funny you should say that. That's how sensei dealt with bullies that wandered into the dojo.

Szczepan Janczuk wrote: Those who are posting replay to the starter of this topic: do you realize this topic is 4 YEARS OLD ????? (06-20-2004 ) May be this guy is today aikido shihan, and you still give him some adivces

Doh! But poster #20 did dig this thread up addressing a similar issue in their dojo.

But getting to shihan in 4 years! Wow! They must have been really good! Their arrogance must have been really real.

Mark Mueller wrote: I gotta admit I am jut amazed at how everyone is willing to put a label on these "dojo frat boys" without knowing the other side of the story.

I was going to ask the very same thing.
To get this in perspective for me. An Aikido student of 7 months is upset that a dozen black belts won't go out of their way to train with them or invite them to parties?

Somewhat of the same caliber, when I first joined the army there was a little group in the mess. Soldiers who have been in a long time, have overseas experience under their belts, know a lot about their job and are well respected by both new recruits AND higher ranking people. I wanted desperately to be a part of them, go drinking with them, be included by them- as did everyone else. They really didn't give us the time of day, they were doing their own thing. Pissed me off, why the hell wouldn't they interact with us.

Fast forward 12 years later. I'm in the group that has been overseas 3 or 4 times, have the cool courses, know who's who in the zoo, can walk by the commanding officer (ie sensi) and say Hey how the hell are you sir? when other troops are too nervous or intimidated to say hello.
Same thing happens, 18 year olds trying to strike up conversations about stuff they haven't experienced yet, trying to be included in our group.
It doesn't work like that. You gotta put your time in. I'll be polite and respectful but I'm 30, I just don't want to go to parties with 18 year olds, I don't have much in the way of conversation with them either (read we don't have that much in common). If I have to teach them or lead them I will no problem but do I consider them "peers"?Not really, not yet.

The black belts mentioned should make time for the new students and teach them, instruct them and not ignore them but the truth is their not on the same level, they don't have the same experience's. They have been through a lot together, probably training withone another their whole MA career. In a few years you'll be in the same spot (or close) and you'll probably have a young white belt complaining that you and your group won't give them the respect they deserve