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Old 10-30-2007, 10:42 AM   #101
Will Prusner
 
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Re: Ueshiba vs. Gun Squad

I know this thread has been abandoned for awhile, but I just wanted to mention that I think O'sensei could have kicked Jesus's ass. I believe he would have also vanquished Moses, as long as Moses was not allowed to turn his staff into a cobra. Noah, probably would have had a better chance as long as the fight took place on the ark. Noah, having an intimate knowledge of the ark's layout was probably very wily and ninja-like while on the vessel.


I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration...

ART! - http://birdsbeaks.blogspot.com/
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Old 10-30-2007, 11:12 AM   #102
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Re: Ueshiba vs. Gun Squad

I don't normally like re-opening threads, but since someone else already has...

I came upon this video of [Akira Hino] awhile ago and thought of the Ueshiba story. At around 2:00, Hino has the people hold a fake gun and yell "Bang!", and proceeds to (very obviously) dodge the "bullet".

Certainly, Hino is quick, and it's unlikely this would work if he wasn't that fast. But what I think Hino is doing is largely psychological. If you watch, you can see him move a split second before they "shoot". I think he's doing one of two things:

--He may be reading their movements/intention and then reacting faster than they are.
--He may be kinda "leading" the people into shooting. He starts moving on his own, which causes the shooters to panic and "shoot", though at that point it's too late and he's already moved.

To my eyes, the latter seems like the more plausible option, but I can't tell exactly what he's doing.

--Timothy Kleinert

Aikido & Wujifa qigongs
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Old 10-30-2007, 02:09 PM   #103
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Ueshiba vs. Gun Squad

Quote:
Timothy Walters Kleinert wrote: View Post
--He may be kinda "leading" the people into shooting. He starts moving on his own, which causes the shooters to panic and "shoot", though at that point it's too late and he's already moved.

To my eyes, the latter seems like the more plausible option, but I can't tell exactly what he's doing.
And that's what Ueshiba probably did, and the cause of his "failure" when tried the same stunt with Sadajiro Sato.

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Old 10-30-2007, 07:11 PM   #104
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Re: Ueshiba vs. Gun Squad

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Old 10-31-2007, 06:22 PM   #105
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Re: Ueshiba vs. Gun Squad

Once again, it's Brian Dewey FTW!

Avery Jenkins
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Old 10-31-2007, 09:04 PM   #106
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Re: Ueshiba vs. Gun Squad

About this time last year, I was at the bookstore with a friend of mine. My friend, Greg, has never studied the martial arts in a formal setting, but he was a bouncer for many years. I finished shopping before him, and while he was waiting in line at the cashier's, I went to the reference desk to see about a book I had ordered. No one was behind the counter, so I stepped up and looked on the shelf to see if my book had come in.

While I was standing there, a fellow came to the counter and started asking about what to do about a problem he was having with the telephone company. I explained that I did not work there, and stepped from behind the counter. I told him that no one was here at the counter, but he probably needed to talk to the telephone company. He gradually became more agitated, telling me about his problem and that he needed it fixed before the weekend (this was a Friday). It became obvious that the fellow needed his "med.s" and apparently hadn't taken them. My friend shot me a questioning look from his place in the checkout line, and without looking directly at him, I gave a little grin that all was cool. Keeping my hands at my sides, I dropped my center of gravity as close to the center of the earth as possible, and continued to try to explain to our "patient" that no one here could really help, and he needed to talk to the phone company, all the while watching my friend in my peripheral vision.

Our "patient" continued to get more agitated. He was about my size and clearly disturbed. The only question was, that if something goes down, do I really hurt him, as in a disabling kick to the knee or multiple punches to sensitive areas, or do I try some Aikido that I have never tested on a similar nut-case. If I had been alone, of course, there would have been no question. But, as Greg was backing me up, I would try to simply restrain the guy, unless he pulled a weapon.

Our "patient's" excitement progressed to the point that he made a little feinting, lunging move to try to draw me into something. I could tell it was a feint, and did not move my hands from my sides. The "patient" continued ranting. But something miraculous happened: Greg disappeared.

This was not the result of adrenaline induced tunnel-vision. I had kept him in my peripheral vision the entire time, and I could still see everyone else around me. My friend was just not there. Our "patient" could sense something weird had happened. He looked all around him, and he did not see Greg -- he just wasn't there. The "patient" rambled on for a minute and then left the store. Then Greg walked up, out of nowhere, and asked "What was that about?"

I have read interviews with more than one of Bruce Lee's students describing how they would be preparing to spar with him, then, without him seeming to move, he would be behind them, slapping them in the head. And I know the story of Ueshiba O-Sensei and the Mongol brigands (though I had not heard about the arms inspectors and gun master Sato). It is easy to attribute these stories to exaggeration, like Ninja movie myths. Like it is hard to believe someone could drive his hand through ten slabs of concrete -- until one has seen it.

All I know is that I "saw" Greg disappear, in a relatively benign encounter. I am confident that Ueshiba O-Sensei could access capabilities at least equal to those of my friend, in a life-and-death situation. Then, of course, there is God. Or if one prefers, "All is (in the) Void."
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Old 10-31-2007, 10:23 PM   #107
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Re: Ueshiba vs. Gun Squad

Quote:
Timothy Walters Kleinert wrote: View Post
I came upon this video of [Akira Hino]...
Completely off-topic, but the chick in the video is hot!
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Old 10-31-2007, 10:57 PM   #108
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Re: Ueshiba vs. Gun Squad

Quote:
Brian Dewey wrote: View Post
Completely off-topic, but the chick in the video is hot!
No Kidding....
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Old 11-01-2007, 01:33 AM   #109
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Re: Ueshiba vs. Gun Squad

William Prusner
Moses passed on to me his snake. You should be slower to make jokes unless you mean them.
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Old 11-01-2007, 04:49 AM   #110
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Re: Ueshiba vs. Gun Squad

Quote:
Brian Dewey wrote: View Post
Completely off-topic, but the chick in the video is hot!
she is Nishiyama Maki (西山茉希).

and i did my best to bring this back to Ueshiba vs. Gun Squad. please forgive me.

uhh.. i'll show the video to my sword sensei and see what he thinks of it?

thanks.
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Old 11-01-2007, 10:15 AM   #111
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Re: Ueshiba vs. Gun Squad

Quote:
Joseph Tutton wrote: View Post
William Prusner
Moses passed on to me his snake. You should be slower to make jokes unless you mean them.
Well, that's fine and dandy... and you may win... but it will be considered by all to be shoddy aikido. Poisonous Snake Waza. Sounds more Kung Fu than Aikido.

W.

p.s. - and it won't be easy to track me down, thanks to this nifty Ark I inherited from some old dead guy.

I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration...

ART! - http://birdsbeaks.blogspot.com/
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Old 11-02-2007, 02:58 PM   #112
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Re: Ueshiba vs. Gun Squad

William

Good response. I've no intention to track anyone down over a poor sense of humor, though I guess it sounded that way. My point was that I know certain things to be facts that most people are sure are myths.

If we make jokes about the highest spiritual achievements of mankind, out of our cynicism, it makes it much more difficult for the divine to show itself to us. We limit what we can achieve to the mundane.

I set the snake free 3 1/2 years ago; don't know who has it now. Enjoy the Ark

Joseph
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Old 11-02-2007, 03:09 PM   #113
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Re: Ueshiba vs. Gun Squad

I completely understand, and actually haven't made my mind up about any of it (Ueshiba's abilities). Fact is, I want it to be true. I have personally seen/done some things that the majority of folks wouldn't believe even with video proof and signed affidavits by nuns. I do believe in the mystery. I look around corners, expecting the "impossible" manifest.

When it comes right down to it, I just make statements about historical and religous figures engaging in adolescent behavior to be inflammatory.

I'd pay whatever it cost to see those match-ups though...

W.

I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration...

ART! - http://birdsbeaks.blogspot.com/
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Old 11-13-2007, 01:52 PM   #114
steven turner
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Re: Ueshiba vs. Gun Squad

Quote:
Charles Jacobs wrote: View Post
I found this on another website, sorry about the length, but what do you think of this?

Excerpt of Aikido Shugyo - Gozo Shioda's Autobiography

Avoiding the concentrated fire of revolvers

Talking about weird things, let me talk about an extremely strange event. This
is also something I actually witnessed with my own eyes. One time an official
from the munitions department of the army, together with 9 military personnel,
came to visit the Ueshiba Dojo. They came to watch the wonderful art of aikido
that they had heard about. These people were arms inspectors. They tested new
weapons and judged whether the sights were accurate or not. Their shooting
ability was Olympic level, and I noticed that they hit the target every time.

Ueshiba Sensei, who had done a demonstration before these people that day, had
claimed, "Bullets cannot reach me." I had, of course, previously heard that
when he was in Mongolia he had avoided the bullets of horse-mounted brigands,
but this was quite different. The inspectors' pride was hurt and they were
quite angry. "You're sure that the bullets won't touch you?" they asked. "Oh,
no, they won't." "Then would you like to try?" "Sure."

They took him at his word and promptly arranged the date that they were to meet
at the Okubo Army Shooting Centre. Before the date, they made Ueshiba Sensei
write officially that he had agreed to become a living target for the army
officers and got him to place his fingerprint on the document. As a further
precaution and verification, they took the document to the army court.
Therefore, even if Sensei was shot and killed, nobody could lodge a complaint.

The appointed day arrived, and a military car came to pick Sensei up to take
him to the shooting area in Okubo. Mr. Yukawa and myself accompanied him.
Naturally, Sensei's wife was very anxious and beseeched him to change his mind.
but Sensei kept replying light-heatedly, "It's all right., they will never hit
their target." Mr. Yukawa and myself were also very concerned; to the point
where we were wondering if it wouldn't be wise to make funeral preparations.
When we reached the shooting area, another surprise was waiting for us. I was
expecting only one gun to be aimed at Sensei, but we discovered that six men
would be firing pistols at him. The best range for pistols was 25 metres and,
normally, a target in the shape of a human is placed at this distance. This
time, however, Ueshiba Sensei was standing there in place of the doll. The six
men then positioned themselves, aiming at Ueshiba Sensei. While staring at him,
I kept thinking helplessly that twenty-five meters is a considerable distance,
and was wondering what on earth Sensei could do from there.

One, two, three…. The six revolvers fired at the same time and a cloud of dust
whirled around us. Then, suddenly, one of the six marksmen was flying through
the air! What had happened? Before we could figure it out, Sensei was standing
behind the six men, laughing into his beard.
We all were bewildered. I really and truly could not understand what had
happened. Not just me, but everyone present was so stunned that we could not
find words to express our shock. The six inspectors were not yet convinced and
asked if Sensei could do it again. "All right" he answered indifferently.

Once again, the six barrels were aimed at Ueshiba Sensei and were fired. This
time the inspector at the edge of the group flew into the air. In exactly the
same way as before, Ueshiba Sensei was standing behind the six inspectors
before we knew what was happening. I was dumbfounded. That time I had promised
myself to watch carefully in order to see exactly what Sensei was doing. But
even though I had tried very hard, I was completely unable to see how he had
moved.

Facing Ueshiba Sensei were the barrels of the six revolvers which had been
fired. This far I could remember clearly, but the next stage, where Sensei had
moved the distance of 25 metres and thrown one of the six marksmen, I simply
could not understand. I couldn't find any explanation for other than "God
techniques."

Flying golden balls

On our way back I asked, "Sensei, how could you do such a thing?" and I
received the following answer. Before the explosion, as the trigger is pulled,
a flash like a golden ball flies off. The actual bullet of the revolver comes
later, therefore it is easy to avoid.

In this case, even though the six men intend to shoot at the same time, they
are never exactly together. Because they shoot at slightly different times, I
just have to go to the one who is going to fire first. "The golden flash has a
spectacular noise," said Sensei. According to him, after the noise he would
begin to run. He ran in the shape of a ninja with his back bent, taking short
slow steps. The real bullet would come after he had already leapt forward about
half the distance. Sensei said that the time between the flash of gold and the
bullet was quite long, but for us watching, everything happened so quickly that
we had no idea that he was trying to get close enough to throw the first man
that had fired.

"God has said that I am necessary for this world and has decided to let me
live. My period of purification is not over so I cannot die. When I am not
necessary for this world anymore the gods will let me pass away." Sensei seemed
to be convinced, but of course we couldn't understand what he meant. I know
that you readers will have difficulty believing in stories like this, but these
kind of strange things really did happen.

Challenge with a master hunter

There is another story that relates to the previous one.

One of my acquaintances, Mr. Sadajiro Sato, was a hunter from Yamanashi
Prefecture. He was known as a master of gun hunting. For example, hunters
usually aim at and shoot pheasants when they are descending to the ground. At
this moment it is said that their flying speed is around 200 kilometres per
hour. If the pheasant is shot in the head it will drop straight to the ground,
but if the bullet hits the body it will fall a long way away. Accordingly,
hunters would try to aim for the head, which is not an easy target to hit. The
point is the Mr. Sato would hit the head every time he shot--he was the master
of masters.

One day I told Mr. Sato the story of Ueshiba Sensei avoiding the six revolvers.
"Even if he did that I am sure he won't be able to avoid mine," said Mr. Sato
confidently. "A human head is much bigger than that of the birds that I am used
to shooting. I cannot imagine missing that." Having said that, Mr. Sato came
down out of the mountains to challenge Ueshiba Sensei. I accompanied him to the
Ueshiba Dojo land told Sensei that Mr. Sato wished to challenge him. Sensei
accepted the proposal.

I watched carefully, and a bit anxiously, as Sensei sat down in seiza at the
far end of the Dojo while Mr. Sato took distance and aimed. And then just as he
was on the verge of pulling the trigger, Sensei dropped his head in recognition
and said, "Wait! Your bullet will hit me! Your thoughts are undistorted, and
clearly you want to hit me. From the beginning you've known that you are going
to hit your target. I cannot avoid the gun of such a man, you are a true
master!"

Mr. Sato returned happily to his mountains. I was deeply impressed. Mr. Sato
was a gun master, and Ueshiba Sensei recognised that and withdrew. It was proof
that a master can recognise another master. I was very fortunate to have been
able to see two precious masters challenging each other.
I just want to say that its a fantastic story if it is true what an amazing experience it would be for any one to see mr Ueshiba a true Legend.

steven turner
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Old 11-13-2007, 06:00 PM   #115
steven turner
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Re: Ueshiba vs. Gun Squad

I think its a fantastic story, How wonderful it must of been to see Master Ueshiba a true great legend.
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Old 01-20-2009, 02:33 PM   #116
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Re: Ueshiba vs. Gun Squad

Quote:
Patrik Eng wrote: View Post
I still don't buy it. And I still don't "need" to buy it; he was great either way. As far as Jeusus goes, he was the son of God. O'sensei wasn't.

Respectfully,

Patrik
Amen

Powerful, loving, sound-minded spirit. 2Tim 1:7
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Old 01-20-2009, 03:03 PM   #117
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Re: Ueshiba vs. Gun Squad

resurrection
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Old 01-20-2009, 04:31 PM   #118
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Re: Ueshiba vs. Gun Squad

Superman could totally beat up Batman. And Bruce Lee too.
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Old 01-20-2009, 05:02 PM   #119
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Re: Ueshiba vs. Gun Squad

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
Superman could totally beat up Batman. And Bruce Lee too.
Ok...but even at the same time? And what if Batman uses his kryptonite-encrusted utility belt and Bruce Lee has kryptonite nunchucks? I do believe their Kryptonite should trump your so-called Super Man. Muahahahhahaaah!

Gambarimashyo!
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Old 01-20-2009, 08:32 PM   #120
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Re: Ueshiba vs. Gun Squad

I once saw a guy run the full length of a paintball field, through a rather intense firefight, capture the flag and run back without getting hit.
Sometimes stuff that shouldn't happen just does.
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Old 01-20-2009, 09:41 PM   #121
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Re: Ueshiba vs. Gun Squad

Quote:
Matthew Gano wrote: View Post
Ok...but even at the same time? And what if Batman uses his kryptonite-encrusted utility belt and Bruce Lee has kryptonite nunchucks? I do believe their Kryptonite should trump your so-called Super Man. Muahahahhahaaah!
No way man. Supe, being himself no dummy, would just stand off at a safe distance and use his super freeze breath and x-ray vision. IceBat and ToastLee. Let's hear it for maai.

Ron
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Old 01-21-2009, 01:26 AM   #122
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Re: Ueshiba vs. Gun Squad

well... i'm glad i wasn't the first or last person to necro this thread.

I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration...

ART! - http://birdsbeaks.blogspot.com/
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Old 01-21-2009, 05:46 AM   #123
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Re: Ueshiba vs. Gun Squad

Quote:
Alex Lawrence wrote: View Post
Sometimes stuff that shouldn't happen just does.
That's a fact! As my dear ol' pappy used to say, " life is often stranger than fiction."

Quote:
I once saw a guy run the full length of a paintball field, through a rather intense firefight, capture the flag and run back without getting hit.
I hear ya. I used to play a lot and whenever I was about to be overwhelmed I usually did something like that. One time I ran into a well-covered clearing about 10'x10' covered by about 7 or 8 people. They saw me and heard me coming a mile away (it must've been my "kiai" that unbalanced their aim ) but I ran right into their base, grabbed their flag and ran right back out. I almost stopped because i expected to get hit...the plan was pretty much to run in and get shot a bunch...you know, "blaze of glory" style. Instead I went unscathed. Now, I didn't see any rays of light telling me where the shots were going so my situation was almost definately a cosmic coincidence...er...I mean, I totally atemi'd them with my mind!
...Sounds cooler that way.

Last edited by mathewjgano : 01-21-2009 at 05:51 AM.

Gambarimashyo!
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Old 01-21-2009, 08:10 PM   #124
Ketsan
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Re: Ueshiba vs. Gun Squad

Quote:
Matthew Gano wrote: View Post
That's a fact! As my dear ol' pappy used to say, " life is often stranger than fiction."

I hear ya. I used to play a lot and whenever I was about to be overwhelmed I usually did something like that. One time I ran into a well-covered clearing about 10'x10' covered by about 7 or 8 people. They saw me and heard me coming a mile away (it must've been my "kiai" that unbalanced their aim ) but I ran right into their base, grabbed their flag and ran right back out. I almost stopped because i expected to get hit...the plan was pretty much to run in and get shot a bunch...you know, "blaze of glory" style. Instead I went unscathed. Now, I didn't see any rays of light telling me where the shots were going so my situation was almost definately a cosmic coincidence...er...I mean, I totally atemi'd them with my mind!
...Sounds cooler that way.
I've seen rays, some of them golden

Two of my mates and I ghosted down the left flank into what's meant to be a village with a church. There's apparently one guy there, which is just too weird. So I (being the teams ghost) went on a recce.
All hell breaks loose, as in, there were many rays all flying around. So I rush back to the other pair and we peel all the way to the bushes.
The marshall then pulls out like five or six guys and there wasn't really much choice, we had to attack, so we went in, cleared the church and the grave yard, rays everywhere. Then we start taking fire from these huts, so we fight our way upto the door of the first hut, stack up and then everything gets mental.

My mate chucks a paint grenade in and we storm the place. They're shooting, we're shooting, marshall jumps in. They're all eliminated we're good, so we jump into the next hut, same thing, next hut same thing, all the way down the line of these huts.
All five huts nicely repainted in a delightful yellow.

So we've taken this village off the enemy, taking out somewhere around sixteen people, most of it at VERY close quarters without getting hit once. Clearly our ki deflects paintballs.
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Old 01-22-2009, 08:24 AM   #125
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Re: Ueshiba vs. Gun Squad

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
Superman could totally beat up Batman. And Bruce Lee too.
Indeed (*sniffs*). You forgot about the Joker as well as Jigaro Kano and the Four Heavenly Lords of Kodokan Judo.

Quote:
William Prusner wrote: View Post
well... i'm glad i wasn't the first or last person to necro this thread.
Meh (*waves hand dismissively*). This is only it's first resurrection. There is another thread on this forum....that which must not be named...it has risen from it's slumber several times. I dare not speak its name aloud. Longtime members here know of it...but dare not utter its name, for the very utterance of it will call it forth from the distended bowels of the Aikiweb archives.

--------
Seriously, though. As has been stated in this thread before, it is inevitable for martial arts to mythologize the founder of their system. And with each passing generation removed from the founder, the facts become embellished legends, and legends become myths. Some myths are fun...others lead to dillusional notions concerning what exactly "is" Aikido.
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