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Old 05-17-2002, 03:24 PM   #26
Kat.C
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Are people referring to personality or character?

Kat

I find the aquisition of knowledge to be relatively easy, it is the application that is so difficult.
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Old 05-17-2002, 04:19 PM   #27
Jim ashby
Dojo: Phoenix Coventry
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Another similarity between apples and puppies... they both taste great roasted.
Have fun.

Vir Obesus Stola Saeptus
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Old 05-17-2002, 04:38 PM   #28
Krzysiek
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I think I know people outside of Aikido who have a flighty personality because they just don't worry much about most things in daily life (this extends to things like not worrying about how they're going to get a job or where they go on vacations... they just do stuff and it happends.) On the other hand, they tend to have very un-flighty character as they're amazingly responsible and coherent when things need to be accomplished, especially when other people are involved.

I guess whether they're flighty of character or personality to you depends on how much importance you place in the different things they do...
--Krzysiek

p.s.-yum... roasted apples
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Old 05-17-2002, 05:27 PM   #29
guest1234
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OK, you guys

I admit, even when I wrote it, I was thinking, well, they both make me smile on cold winter days, and they both roll kind of wobbly and lopsided. But never, NEVER, did crisp, tasty, and roasted ever, EVER cross my mind. boy, am I ever glad I didn't use cats in that sentence...
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Old 05-18-2002, 06:32 AM   #30
paw
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well, now that you mention it....

"Cats the other white meat"
----- bumper sticker seen while biking about town
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Old 05-18-2002, 07:04 AM   #31
erikmenzel
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Exclamation Cats??????????

Quote:
Originally posted by ca
am I ever glad I didn't use cats in that sentence
Someone once told me cats taste like chicken.

Kentucky fried cat


Last edited by erikmenzel : 05-18-2002 at 07:06 AM.

Erik Jurrien Menzel
kokoro o makuru taisanmen ni hirake
Personal:www.kuipers-menzel.com
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Old 05-18-2002, 07:58 AM   #32
Jim ashby
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I now truly believe that cats are psychic. As soon as I read the new idea of cooking cats, both of my siamese started crawling over my keyboard craving attention. Now, where's that pressure cooker?
Have fun.

Vir Obesus Stola Saeptus
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Old 05-18-2002, 09:45 PM   #33
SeiserL
 
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There is some research in both medicine and psychotherapy that suggest the rapport with and belief in the treating physician has a major effect on the compliance with treatment and the acceptance of guidance. IMHO, that is truth in all aspects of our lives including training in Aikido. Besides just learning the techniques from our teachers we often identify and imitate their beiefs and attitudes without knowing it. look at the study of mememics (thought viruses) for more ideas. IMHO, I would train understand someone I did not also respect.

Having character is more important than being one.

Until again,

Lynn
Nidan Tenshinkai Aikido
Lucaylucay Kali JKD

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 05-19-2002, 06:20 PM   #34
Gopher Boy
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Very interesting Lynn - are you saying that trusting the doctor / psychologist etc... to give you what you need allows your mind (and therefor body) to accept the treatment more readily. Kind of a placebo effect?

I suppose this works in a rather detrimental way as well. If someone was to train exclusively with people of 'questionable' moral standing (i.e. an MA teacher who was overly violent and confrontational) then I am sure that an unquestioning person would develop these traits as well.

Sorry - that was much clearer in my mind before the keyboard got in the way!

I suppose for that reason, a student must always have an enquiring mind and not blindly accept everything that is thrown at them. In Musashi's 'Book of Five Rings' he says over and over: "You must research this well..." Good advice methinks.


Phill.
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Old 05-20-2002, 09:25 AM   #35
SeiserL
 
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Do symbol

Phil,

IMHO, its much more than just the placebo effect, which is very valid. Its holographic in that we take in the whole message (content and character) of the medium in which the message is sent. Very subtle and very powerful.

Yes, choose wisely.

Until again,

Lynn
Nidan Tenshinkai Aikido
Lucaylucay Kali JKD
Ph.D. Psychology

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 05-21-2002, 01:09 PM   #36
akiy
 
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There's been some pretty interesting responses (culinary tastes notwithstanding) so far!

To ask a related question, do folks think that aikido in and of itself provides people a way to change their character for the better? If you do, do you think it provides a better way of doing so than other venues?

-- Jun

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Old 05-21-2002, 01:34 PM   #37
Lyle Bogin
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Aikido does provide an opportunity for character develpment, like building a house or playing baseball. But I'm not sure if it developes character more than characters.
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Old 05-21-2002, 02:09 PM   #38
Greg Jennings
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Quote:
Originally posted by akiy
To ask a related question, do folks think that aikido in and of itself provides people a way to change their character for the better?
Hmmm. I think it's dependent on both the instructor/dojo and the person.

I've been acquainted with instructors/dojo that had poisonous programs. E.g., Elitest, zenophobic rhetoric, etc.

If a person isn't using the aikido as a vehicle for self-improvment, I don't think the best of programs would do much good.

Quote:

If you do, do you think it provides a better way of doing so than other venues?
No.

I guess it also depends on the dojo and the person. I guess one could add in other variables like the time in the person's life, etc.

Best Regards,

Greg Jennings
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Old 05-21-2002, 02:14 PM   #39
Lyle Bogin
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Kat -

What do you see as the difference between personality and character?
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Old 05-21-2002, 02:38 PM   #40
Doug Mathieu
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Hi

I agree with Greg. "Aikido" can lead to an improved Character if the student embraces the moral idea. Keep in mind what my take on that is.

If you accept the objective of dealing with aggression and protecting the aggressor as much as possible then over time I think it will affect your own character because it will be very hard to do this without agreeing to the concept and internallizing it.

The next part of the equation is the people involved. A teacher may or may not work toward that or communicate it. However that is not the fault of "Aikido" that is the human element.

I also agree that Aikido is not neccesarily the best vehicle for Character development. I think there are probably many other disciplines that directly work on character. I might feel in the context of Martial Arts that Aikido is a better vehicle than most MA.

Lyle, you asked a good question of Kat re: personality vs. Character. Not to answer for her but just my own thought would personality be things like a person is a happy, sad, moody, angry, generous, stingy, etc person whereas character covers, honesty, integrity, liar, thief. Probably some of it may be blury on the distinction or could cross over some.
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Old 05-21-2002, 10:15 PM   #41
Kat.C
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lyle Bogin
Kat -

What do you see as the difference between personality and character?
Doug did a good job of answering this question I will just add to it with an example,
When I lived in Ottawa I became friends with a very charming fellow student. I enjoyed hanging out with him, he was funny,smart, and very considerate. Unfortunately, as I later discovered, he dealt in drugs. Wonderful personality, poor character. This guy was really nice, and he kept his drugdealing well hidden, it was kind of an accident that I found out. So it is fairly easy for people to keep their true character hidden, at least for a time.
I know people who are almost the exact opposite too, they come across as jerks but it's just a lack of people skills, they just don't know how to socialize well but they are great people who I trust.
So along with what Doug said,he hit it right on the nail, that's how personality and character differ to me.
And yes, the lines between the two can be blurry.

Kat

I find the aquisition of knowledge to be relatively easy, it is the application that is so difficult.
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Old 05-21-2002, 10:27 PM   #42
guest1234
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To me, personality is the way you perceive and react to the world courtesy of what God/nature/nurture gave you as basic material. Character is what you do with those perceptions and reactions through the strength of your beliefs (ethical, moral, religious, other).
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Old 05-22-2002, 12:55 PM   #43
SeiserL
 
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IMHO (as a professional psychotherapist), everything we do provides and opportunity to change and/or develop. It is a choice we make. No "way" can make us change. People try all the time to change others or to believ that "their way" is "the way."

I tend to remind people that if their parents called them a different name and raise them a different way in a different place, if they had a different history of experiences, they would probably think they were a differnt person. So our ego identity personality is a learned program. It may reflect more the people we learned it from than ourselves. Anything that is learned, can be unlearned anad relearned.

So the question is just who you are, the question is who do you want to be? Decide that and practice it inside and outside the Dojo and watch who you think you are (personality often defined by what you do)and your character (often defined by the rules you live by or the way you describe what you do) changes.

IMHO, Aikido is a great place to choose to change. The philosophy itself goes against what is commonly held in most societies.

Until again,

Lynn
Nidan Tenshinkai Aikido
Lucaylucay Kali JKD
Ph.D. Psychology

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 05-22-2002, 08:56 PM   #44
MaylandL
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Quote:
Originally posted by akiy
...do folks think that aikido in and of itself provides people a way to change their character for the better? If you do, do you think it provides a better way of doing so than other venues?
I think that aikido can provide some philosophies that may provide guidance to some who wish to take them on board. I would agree with Mr Greg Jennings in that it would depend on the dojo and how they educate their students on those philosophies and how they incorporate them into training.

There are other means for a person to develop their character, for example religious belief and other martial disciplines. Aikido is but one way of self development.

Happy training all

Mayland
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Old 05-22-2002, 10:15 PM   #45
Jim23
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Can Aikido change your character? I don't think so. Maturing might affect character development - having kids, getting older, experiencing a loss, etc. It's like asking if religion can change someone's character - people usually experience change, then find religion.

I think character is genetic (it can, I suppose, skip a generation or two). Who you are when you're young is, essentially, who you are when you're old. Someone can make a choice to start or stop a specific behavior, etc., but that's not a character change.

A tiger doesn't change it's spots.

Jim23

Remember, all generalizations are false
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Old 05-22-2002, 11:40 PM   #46
Edward
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On a second thought, I do find some aspects in which aikido has changed my character.

Being exclusively a defensive art, and not teaching any form of agression, I find myself trying to provoke people on the street hoping that they would attack me.

Maybe that's why there is so much provocation on the forums...
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Old 06-22-2002, 12:14 AM   #47
Paula Lydon
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Hi all! I know others have stated it, but here's my two cents I believe that if you are the sort of person to honestly reflect on yourself and are interested in positive change, Aikido, like all of life, can be a wonderful tool. I try throughout my day to be in touch with the different emotions/energies moving through me as I come into contact with outside stimulus, and some things create an energy I don't like feeling at this point in my life. It's I who hold a vision of the better me I'm living, I who critique my character...whoever this 'I' might be.
I train in a large dojo and my head instructor has no idea who I am as a person, and that's fine if he's judging my developement by other criteria. I trained for many years in a different MA, very small dojo, and Sensie did know us personally and character growth did figure into promotions, as well as tech. skill and control. If you had great techniques but didn't care about hurting your partner, couldn't sense and adjust to their ability level, then you weren't promoted, but in that art that criteria was part of the style.
I also agree with the fellow--sorry, I don't have your name--who said a lot seemed based on politics. Sad but true, the squeeky wheel gets the grease...or gets teacher's attention, or gets moved along...whatever. But again, that's part of my development to deal with in as positive a manner as I can.
I hold myself to my own standards, hold no one else to them, and expect no one to hold me to theirs (like they could), as far as my spirit/character is concerned. I claim autonomy and responsibility for myself while gratefull for any and all help along the way. This may sound arrogant, but I think it's just maturity.
Well, that was a mouthful! Thanks for listening...may you find your way.

~~Paula~~
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