Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-15-2002, 04:22 PM   #1
Leonard Mayer
Dojo: Aikido of Westchester
Location: New York
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 1
Offline
Smile Art of Falling

I am a beginning aikido student. I have been trying forward rolls and backward rolls. I find that forward rolls are very frustrating. I have injured my shoulder and elbow muscles. To recuperate, I swim and try some slow muscle curling exercises such as arm curls, front lifts, and lateral lifts to build up muscle strength. I have also purchased a video on the art of falling by Brookman. After my attempts to roll, my elbow muscle pain prevents me from lifting anything. Does anyone have any experience or suggestions to recuperate from such injuries and to learn more easily how to fall without injury.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2002, 04:52 PM   #2
Katie Jennings
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 14
Offline
Freaky! RE: Art of falling

Hi
I'm a beginner too, but i found a good way to do it was just to concentrate on anything else (literally, even the colour of the mats ) and just let go. It helkped me, because i wasnt stiffening up so much, and although Sensei tells me i still roll on my shoulder, at least its less painful.
Katie
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2002, 05:02 PM   #3
shihonage
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 890
United_States
Offline
Re: Art of Falling

Quote:
Originally posted by Leonard Mayer
Does anyone have any experience or suggestions to recuperate from such injuries and to learn more easily how to fall without injury.
You have to trust in the fact that your arms won't collapse during the roll if you don't let them.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2002, 05:31 PM   #4
guest1234
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 915
Offline
I cannot think of how you could injure a muscle while rolling, with the exception of pulling a back or leg muscle (leaning wrong in a forward roll), or just bruising them in a wrong fall... but this should not be causing you pain if you try to lift something. Two suggestions:

1. At least talk to your sensei or a senior (and get a REAL senior, not just someone senior to you...I've seen relative beginners give those just a few months newer some terrible advice), tell them what is hurting and ask them to watch your rolls... they should be able to give you some help on the rolls, and an idea of what you've done to hurt yourself.

2. Consider seeing a doctor if the pain continues, or if there is any numbness or weakness, or limitation of movement. There are several joints you roll across that you could have damaged with a bad roll.

Good luck!
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2002, 06:44 PM   #5
REK
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 102
Offline
Learning to fall is the most frustrating thing about starting Aikido. The good news is that once you start to feel good about your ukemi, you can start to feel frustrated by the techniques

We encourage some beginners to use VERY thick mats to start. We are fortunate in that we were able to acquire a "crash pad" gratis from the place we purchased our mats. It's 6 inches of very forgiving foam. If additional mat padding is not an option, then my best advice is speed. Slow down. Take your time. It's not a contest.

As for videos, my personal favorite are by Donovan Waite. He developed his style of ukemi following a back injury. It's worth checking out. Just be careful and be patient! Good luck!

Rob

________________________
Mors certa, hora incerta
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2002, 08:11 PM   #6
akiy
 
akiy's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 6,003
Offline
In my observation, the most common reason for a shoulder or elbow injury during a forward roll is that the person who is doing the roll has a "corner" at that joint. The ground should only contact one section of your body as you're rolling, and all transitions over joints (ie over the elbow, shoulder, and so on) should be smooth. In other words, your body should have a smooth curve along the path the body will be touching the ground as you're rolling; any joint that's bent at an acute angle (like collapsing the arm) will result in a "corner" that can get jammed into the mat.

One thing I emphasize when I teach someone new how to forward roll is that they should feel "inflated" like a soccer ball. A well inflated soccer ball rolls on the ground quite nicely; a half inflated one will bump-bump-bump across the ground.

An exercise which I've found to be helpful in teaching rolls in the "unbendable arm" exercise. It seems to give people one way to keep their arms supportive yet without tension.

Don't be afraid to ask one of the senior students at your dojo after class to help you in your ukemi. In my mind, ukemi is the most important part of aikido practice...

-- Jun

Please help support AikiWeb -- become an AikiWeb Contributing Member!
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2002, 09:44 PM   #7
Peter Goldsbury
 
Peter Goldsbury's Avatar
Dojo: Hiroshima Kokusai Dojo
Location: Hiroshima, Japan
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,241
Japan
Offline
Mr Mayer,

Do you do your forward rolls from a sitting, i.e., hanza, or a standing position? I have a class of 12 total beginners and teach ukemi classes, i.e., the entire class focusing on ukemi in some way or other. We started with ushiro ukemi (backward rolls) from a sitting position, followed by forward rolls from the same position, the forward roll being identical to the backwards roll except for direction. We then graduated to backward rolls from a standing position, and then forward rolls from a standing position, again identical except for the direction. All the members, aged from 15 to 60, can now do fairly respectable ukemi, but, of course, some are better than others. None of these students can graduate to the general aikido class unless they can do forward and backward ukemi to my satisfaction.

If you do not have special beginners classes, you should ask a senior (a real senior, as Colleen says) to watch you and give advice tailored to your own particular needs. I think it is difficult in a discussion forum to advise about such particular needs.

As Jun says, ukemi is absolutely fundamental to aikido, but you should be optimistic. You will certainly learn respectable ukemi, even if you do not manage to reach the heights (literally!) of Mr Waite. It took me about 2 years to iron out all the cracks and blow out all the cobwebs, and here I am still teaching ukemi 30 years later.

Best regards,

P A Goldsbury
_______________________
Kokusai Dojo,
Hiroshima,
Japan
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2002, 09:50 PM   #8
Matt Ashley
 
Matt Ashley's Avatar
Location: MN
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 9
Offline
ukemi practice

Leonard-

One thing that you might try is to practice your rolls in a kneeling position. This has two advantages: you can practice the rolls slower and you are not falling "down" to the mat. Keep the idea of roundness in your mind. Once you're good at rolling backwards and forwards from the kneeling position, stand up and do the full roll. When you are falling or rolling it can feel like a long way down. Try getting down closer to the ground before you contact the mat (bend your knees and at the waist) so you don't have so far to fall. Hope this helps!


Matt
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2002, 10:59 PM   #9
SeiserL
 
SeiserL's Avatar
Location: Florida Gulf coast
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,888
United_States
Offline
Sorry to hear about the injuries. The physical therapy sites are the best source for rahb exercises. Most happen, I think, because we jam the joints trying to absorb the rolls.

Relax and exhale as you roll. Think "ball". The body should roll like a ball off the finger tips, up the rounded outside of the arm, over th shoulder, accross the back, off the opposite hip, and off the side of the leg.

Breakfalls begin similiar, but let you legs lay out so you land flat. Slap and let you hand/arm absorb some impact.

Relax and exhale is so important. I held my breath when I first learn and separated some ribs.

It just takes practice. Keep at it. You'll get the hang of it.

Until again,

Lynn

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2002, 10:30 PM   #10
Jermaine Alley
Dojo: Aikido Of Richmond
Location: Richmond, VA
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 63
Offline
Falling Pains

Mr. Mayer,
When it comes to ukemi, remember the circle and how it is important in our techniques. For example, when taking a right forward roll, i try to "bo-out" or round out the arm that I am placing on the ground first which puts my elbow and shoulder in alignment to take the fall. While you are falling concentrate on rolling from your shoulder to the left hip.
Staying relaxed and rounded out will help you to make a smoother, quiet roll.
Don't forget to fold your legs while you are in the middle ofthe roll also.
When I first started rolling, i hit the mat hard a few times. After you get hurt a couple of times rolling wrong, you don't have any choice but to do it right...good luck..pull some of your yudansha aside and ask them to give you a hand.
Good luck...
jermaine
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Falling in love with Sensei Janet5 Anonymous 143 05-08-2013 08:15 PM
Article: Falling Leaves by Ross Robertson AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 2 06-29-2007 02:01 PM
Poll: How intimidated by falling and rolling were you as a beginner in aikido? AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 23 10-25-2003 02:59 PM
Poll: Which direction of falling do you think is the most dangerous for uke during aikido training? AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 15 10-02-2003 06:31 PM
"Even the Mona Lisa's falling apart" Steve Patterson Training 10 07-01-2002 12:22 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:07 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2018 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2018 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate