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Old 08-07-2008, 10:02 AM   #26
Mato-san
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Re: Core Techniques in Aikido -- and Why

Quote:
Mark Murray wrote: View Post
I thought that there had been other posts about the core techniques in aikido. I did a quick search and couldn't find them to use as a reference. I'm pretty sure they're out there, though.

But, I wondered what people thought were the core techniques of their aikido and more importantly, why? Secondarily, why do you think they would be important from Ueshiba's point of view?
Hi mark, first off I am sure no-one would like to speak on behalf of Osensei.
I did read a post that said Aikido techniques would be looked at in 2 different lights. (Lynn Sensei from memory) some have principle value and some practical value, so for myself, you take away either principle or practical from every technique. "Core" for me would be the principle component . Like tenkan done well, irimi done well etc. The foundation is the core, I am sure any time your Sensei says that you are are doing kihon waza that you should open your mind and see practical or principle and internally process it.

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Old 08-07-2008, 10:24 AM   #27
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Re: Core Techniques in Aikido -- and Why

The core techniques of Aikido are not uncommon in other traditional Japanese taijutsu. These techniques are at the very heart of controlling a person with a weapon, or freeing yourself up so that you can use yours.

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Old 08-07-2008, 10:27 AM   #28
MM
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Re: Core Techniques in Aikido -- and Why

Hi Mathew,

Thanks for replying!

Quote:
Mathew McDowell wrote: View Post
Hi mark, first off I am sure no-one would like to speak on behalf of Osensei.
Of that, I do not doubt. But, really, what I was asking is what each person's interpretation of what Ueshiba would have thought. Not speak for Ueshiba.

For example, we see video of Ueshiba doing many techniques and have photos of him doing techniques. So, we know he did think some things were worth training. So, why do you think he thought that way about specific techniques? Really, all we have from Ueshiba is guesses, opinions, and theories at this point.

Mark
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Old 08-07-2008, 10:28 AM   #29
MM
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Re: Core Techniques in Aikido -- and Why

Quote:
Chris Hein wrote: View Post
The core techniques of Aikido are not uncommon in other traditional Japanese taijutsu. These techniques are at the very heart of controlling a person with a weapon, or freeing yourself up so that you can use yours.
Hi Chris,

What would you consider those core techniques?

Thanks,
Mark
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Old 08-07-2008, 05:47 PM   #30
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Re: Core Techniques in Aikido -- and Why

Kotegaishi, Shiho nage, Nikyo, Sankyo, Ikkyo, Irimi nage, Koshi nage, Kokyu nage, Kaiten nage, Rokyo, juji nage.

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Old 08-08-2008, 12:44 AM   #31
Bryan Sproles
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Re: Core Techniques in Aikido -- and Why

From what I've seen, read and experienced (with some previous JuJItsu training as well), in Aikido, I would say the core basics are:

Ukemi (mae, ushiro, yoko)

Kamae - basic stance

Tenkan - standard method of moving, helps blend with uke during techniques

Kokyu Ho - breath technique, standard exercise

Tai no Henko - Basic movements

Ikkyo - A very common technique to get uke to the mat. Can be done on its own, or in combination with many other techniques, e.g. -- nikkyo/sankyo -> ikkyo, ikkyo -> kotegaeshi, etc.

Nikkyo - Standard wrist lock for controlling uke

Sankyo - Another form of controlling uke

Shihonage - Probably my favorite (and best) technique - teaches how to tenkan, shift weight, maintain balance, sword movements (bringing the sword (elbow) up, and cutting down to throw.)

Finally, core...not techniques, but rather principles that *I'm* getting from Aikido:

circularity
zanshin
sword-based movement
moving from the hips

And finally for me, absolutely essential is an eagerness and willingness to learn

-Bryan
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Old 08-09-2008, 07:11 AM   #32
Mato-san
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Re: Core Techniques in Aikido -- and Why

Quote:
Mark Murray wrote: View Post
Hi Mathew,

Thanks for replying!

Of that, I do not doubt. But, really, what I was asking is what each person's interpretation of what Ueshiba would have thought. Not speak for Ueshiba.

For example, we see video of Ueshiba doing many techniques and have photos of him doing techniques. So, we know he did think some things were worth training. So, why do you think he thought that way about specific techniques? Really, all we have from Ueshiba is guesses, opinions, and theories at this point.

Mark
I believe he thought that way about techniques because he was a Martial Arts connoisseur.

You can take a bunch of ushiro-tekubi waza, any sized bunch you like, if you are not doing correct foot movement, timing, distance and more importantly the principle behind the movement smoothly, the entire bunch is void. So the technique itself is just a single useless technique. Learn the principle behind that bunch and BINGO! You got loads of waza from that grab.

A solid foundation of principles makes a solid Aikido syllabus.

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Old 08-13-2008, 08:41 AM   #33
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Re: Core Techniques in Aikido -- and Why

Probably simple taisabaki. You need that for all techniques You can even apply the principle to other martial arts as well.

As with more defined "techniques" I would agree on ikkyo, shihonage, iriminage. Would also add sitting kokyu-ho, standing kokyunage and standing kokyu-ho (as in sokumen iriminage).

As with O sensei, in one of his books (probably "Aikido") there are some good pictures about what he thought was essential techniques. There's also that story of him and his student whom he only taught shihonage since it is apparently the foundation of all aikido techniques.
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Old 08-13-2008, 11:25 AM   #34
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Re: Core Techniques in Aikido -- and Why

shihonage done correctly is sacred? Yes, but how many ppl gonna relate to that? Or more importantly accept it! Most systems settle for the aikijujitsu style.

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Old 09-03-2008, 05:53 AM   #35
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Re: Core Techniques in Aikido -- and Why

Wish I was taught shihonage by Osensei. What story you referring to James? And who was the lucky student? I have my assumptions.

Suppose you do shihonage like a kotegaishi, you know the kotegaishi that roles back into the fist, now that would work pretty cool I think, not to mention effective. Not sure where that came from.

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Old 09-03-2008, 06:12 AM   #36
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Re: Core Techniques in Aikido -- and Why

Quote:
Mathew McDowell wrote: View Post
Suppose you do shihonage like a kotegaishi, you know the kotegaishi that roles back into the fist, now that would work pretty cool I think, not to mention effective. Not sure where that came from.
Not sure I understand this...
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Old 09-03-2008, 06:53 AM   #37
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Re: Core Techniques in Aikido -- and Why

(I am not a huge fan of techniques done in words but)
Ok, take that shihonage and initially be blending and straight onto shoulder, then sliding down the arm with nice 45% (gurai) angle on the footwork toward the wrist (not blocking the yokomenuchi which results in having a collision of force) just mere blending (if you are too much inside it will be a block, if you are too far outside you missed the shoulder) then with perfect timing enter (with the wrist passing straight by uke`s centre) and fold that shihonage straight back into the natural curve of uke`s arm (the direct upside of the elbow) not outside, not inside.... straight DOWN.
Same goes for kotegaishi, a tad bit different but the same principle.

Basically blend with the shoulder not the wrist.

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Old 09-03-2008, 07:05 AM   #38
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Re: Core Techniques in Aikido -- and Why

Sorry, above I am referring to yokomenuchi shihonage

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Old 09-03-2008, 11:28 PM   #39
Takahama
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Re: Core Techniques in Aikido -- and Why

I've enjoyed reading all the interesting posts on this thread.

I'd like to express my own perspective on the topic, although I don't regard it as either vastly different from, or more correct than any of the others. It is based on my personal experience, and on what I have observed my teachers say and do during regular practice.

At the core of all technique is kokyu ryoku. Correct regular practice of kihon waza aims to develop one's kokyu ryoku, which is a lifetime's work.Training to improve one's kokyu ryoku apparently finishes only when we die. Kokyu ryoku is what fuels all technique.

There are some techniques which lend themselves ideally to the development of kokyu ryoku and so could be considered as the 'core techniques' of aikido. There are three main forms that we repeat. Almost every single class finishes with (and sometimes also begins with) one of these three forms:

- sitting kokyu ho.
- standing kokyu ho (ryo te mochi - two hands grabbing one wrist).
- tenchi nage.

When grabbing the wrist(s), uke is not half-hearted but takes a firm, honest and centered hold. This creates the best conditions to develop and study the use of kokyu ryoku.

When studying ikkyo, irimi nage and shiho nage, the fundemental way of doing so is to employ a firm wrist grab, again to provide an optimum opportunity to develop kokyu ryoku. This builds a solid foundation when it comes to studying shomen uchi, yokomen uchi and tsuki later in the class. The following wrist grabs feature mostly:

- Ai hanmi kosa dori (nana te mochi), ikkyo.
- Ai hanmi kosa dori (nana te mochi), irimi nage.
- Gyaku hanmi kata te dori, shiho nage.
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Old 09-22-2008, 11:11 AM   #40
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Re: Core Techniques in Aikido -- and Why

sorry micheal but just grab onto anyone who knows and like I said scratch and sniff

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Old 09-22-2008, 11:13 AM   #41
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Re: Core Techniques in Aikido -- and Why

Aikido is scratch and sniff

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