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Old 09-17-2008, 08:49 AM   #26
SeiserL
 
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Re: NLP in martial arts.

Darin,

In the early days, Bandler and Grinder did use hypnosis. That is because of their extensive study of Milton Erickson, a medical hypnotist. However, he referred to them as Bandit and Swindler. Later they dropped the emphasis on "hypnosis" and began to think of consciousness as a trance state.

IMHO, Ross Jefferies demonstrates that lack of ethics that became the downfall of NLP. There was a severe split between those who followed Grinder and those who followed Bandler.

NLP as a vocabulary and technology can aid the understanding of mental discipline and training. It will never replace good physical training, but can make that training more effective and efficient in skill acquisition.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 09-17-2008, 07:53 PM   #27
Aristeia
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Re: NLP in martial arts.

Quote:
Lynn Seiser wrote: View Post
Darin,

There was a severe split between those who followed Grinder and those who followed Bandler.
Lynn I'd be interested in your take on the differences between these two groups and their emphasis?

"When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail"
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Old 09-18-2008, 11:21 AM   #28
SeiserL
 
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Re: NLP in martial arts.

Quote:
Michael Fooks wrote: View Post
Lynn I'd be interested in your take on the differences between these two groups and their emphasis?
IMHO, John Grinder was for ethics, elegance, and positive process. Richard Bandler was for ego, arrogance, and technicians.

Both brilliant. Together, they balanced each other. They started a great technology/vocabulary.

The constant put-downs of the established fields and the arroagnace of the technicians got NLP a bad reputation and didn't really produce the lasting change they promised through the razle-dazzle quick-fix.

Added to long-term mental and physical discipline/practice, NLP can assist the production of changes in the neuro-plasticity of the brain and produce lasting change/skill-acquisition.

Last edited by SeiserL : 09-18-2008 at 11:28 AM.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 09-18-2008, 02:36 PM   #29
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Re: NLP in martial arts.

interesting -thanks for that.

"When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail"
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Old 09-21-2008, 04:13 AM   #30
Charles Hill
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Re: NLP in martial arts.

Hi,

Just anote that Bandler has always used hypnosis throughout his career. His new thing is Neuro-hypnotic Patterning along with Design Human Engineering. For those who are interested, NLPConnections.com has a very nice forum represented by students of both Bandler and Grinder with spirited, respectful discussions of the differences between the two.

Charles
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Old 09-21-2008, 10:55 AM   #31
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Re: NLP in martial arts.

Quote:
Charles Hill wrote: View Post
For those who are interested, NLPConnections.com has a very nice forum represented by students of both Bandler and Grinder with spirited, respectful discussions of the differences between the two.
Thanks for the resource.
I'll check it out.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 09-21-2008, 12:51 PM   #32
jennifer paige smith
 
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Re: NLP in martial arts.

Well, being from Santa Cruz, I am familiar and friendly with the Grinder family. They are friends of my folks. Grinder and Bandler got their starts here at The UC and there is a strong local following.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Bandler

I never got into their stuff very deeply because it was all around me and it struck me as manipulative. But I can tell you that after training in Aikido for many years and then being re-exposed to the NLP praxis, I found that Aikido by itself covered all of the same bases and seemingly accomplished it with more wholeness in the body, mind, and heart. The practice is greater than the individuals which is what makes it so worthy to me. Perhaps because, IMO, Aikido is a whole product of nature and NLP is a fragmented product of people.
But to each their own and I concede that NLP is a step on the ladder that some need.



Bueno,
Jen

Last edited by jennifer paige smith : 09-21-2008 at 12:56 PM.

Jennifer Paige Smith
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Old 09-21-2008, 04:35 PM   #33
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Re: NLP in martial arts.

I know nothing about NLP other than a co-worker who was really into it, used it on his kids. I thought it was a strange thing to do on kids, I thought there was some sinister motive behind it. Like it was a way to manipulate their memories and how they saw adults. A hypnotic mind (Fill in the blank), there is no way know of how effective he was. It gave me a negative view on NLP. Then as I started reading about Aikido and NLP I wasn't sure what to think.

I guess any good tool can be misused. NLP can be used with in good intentions. I side with Jennifer, I have to wonder to what extent are the negative effects of NLP, in the dojo. That is dependent of course on how powerful NLP is. Therefore, my question is how NLP can be abused and is it ethical if NLP is being taught to the students by a sensei or other who doesn't inform the students NLP is being used on them. What is that outcome and what can a student do about it. Should students be concerned. Etc. Etc.

Last edited by Buck : 09-21-2008 at 04:39 PM.
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Old 09-21-2008, 05:14 PM   #34
Charles Hill
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Re: NLP in martial arts.

For those who are interested in NLP/Aikido, you must check out Stephen Gilligan, especially his book, The Courage To Love. He is one of the early Santa Cruz NLP students and an Ericksonian Hypnotherapist. He is also a serious Aikido student and incorporates it into his work. I forget the name of his teacher but she is a student of Kazuo Chiba.
Charles
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Old 09-21-2008, 10:07 PM   #35
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Re: NLP in martial arts.

Hmmmmmm

Last edited by jennifer paige smith : 09-21-2008 at 10:16 PM.

Jennifer Paige Smith
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Old 09-22-2008, 12:11 AM   #36
Charles Hill
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Re: NLP in martial arts.

One more. Charlie Badenhop was one of the small group of non-Japanese training seriously with Koichi Tohei from the 70's. He teaches NLP and has developed what he calls Seishindo in which he blends NLP/Hypnosis, Aikido, and bodywork. He has a great website at www.seishindo.org which is full of articles about NLP and aikido. He also does seminars all over the world.

Charles
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Old 09-22-2008, 09:06 AM   #37
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Re: NLP in martial arts.

I agree, there appeared to be a trend in NLP towards the unconscious manipulation of others, which is an ethical concern of mine.

There is also a smaller quieter trained in NLP towards using the model of NLP for self application and others.

Outside of a therapeutic context where I have permission to help others change, I only share/teach NLP for the latter intent.

I have trained (in NLP and hypnosis) with Gilligan and find his work and ethics excellent.

In general, don't worry, there are so few people who know NLP well enough to apply it within an Aikido Dojo, that chances are it will be obvious.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 09-22-2008, 10:06 AM   #38
jennifer paige smith
 
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Re: NLP in martial arts.

Or it wont. And then I find it is super important to maintain the ethic of teaching what you say you're teaching. If that includes NLP, say so; just like in the examples Charles has given.

I also don't think it is necessary to worry, but I think it is important to be aware of what one is eating off of the plate. In case it isn't what you ordered.

Thanks for the lively,
Jen

Jennifer Paige Smith
Confluence Aikido Systems
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Old 09-15-2016, 05:22 PM   #39
Graz
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Re: NLP in martial arts.

I love this post I think the discipline they really complement each other. It goes back to the fact that the human being is an integrate organism. Where all the parts are interconnect: mind, physical, emotional and also spiritual.

I love Nlp because he gives the chance to modelling the world and our own mind in order to achieve a specific outcome. We have to keep in mind that Nlp and Hypnosis are not exact science but a formidable discipline that can help anyone to achieve better results in Aikido or any other sport or in life in general.

And as Nlp student and Aikido newbie I believe that the more people approaches to these discipline the more the world can become a better place. Where people can be happier, healthier and wealthier.

And as long time Nlp student and new to Aikido I was wondering if any other techniques that can be applied in the Aikido from Nlp such: pace and leading, framing, matching and mirroring?

I have really enjoyed this thread.

You can be do anything with your use of your mind Nlp Techniques Guide
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