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Old 05-30-2002, 03:33 AM   #26
shihonage
Join Date: Sep 2001
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Quote:
Originally posted by nikon
Jun: where?

Coincidently, after reading these posts, i came across a similiar situation to me. I was in a bus and 3 guys were harassing a lone girl. I knew i had to intervene if they went overboard. Fortunately, they did not
For all you know, while you're fighting the guys, the girl will come behind you and club you on the head with a bottle.
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Old 05-30-2002, 04:35 AM   #27
gweeki
Location: Singapore
Join Date: May 2002
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Ai symbol Re: Intervene or not?

Quote:
Originally posted by nikon
A boy who was attacked on board a crowded MRT train "is upset that no one on the train came forward to stop the assault."

On the other hand, a man died from injuries he sustained while intervening a fight.

What would you do if you witnessed a fight, say, on board a MRT train? Intervene? Watch and do nothing? Call the police? Move to another carriage in the train? Get down the train?

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stori...w/8690/1/.html


MRT train = subway train


This issue has indeed went through my mind a few times. It's question of our very own principle, how should we react in this kind of situation arises? It's really depends on the actual situation but you've to be realistic that the boy was confronted by 20 youth. Now, do we or are we confident to handle against this amount of attackers? Frankly, I've yet to come to a conclusion. Still pondering.....
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Old 05-30-2002, 06:05 AM   #28
erikmenzel
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Quote:
Originally posted by shihonage
For all you know, while you're fighting the guys, the girl will come behind you and club you on the head with a bottle.
Kind of reminds me of randori:

Those that stay away or sit at the edge of the mat are NOT the enemy. Those that dont ARE!

Erik Jurrien Menzel
kokoro o makuru taisanmen ni hirake
Personal:www.kuipers-menzel.com
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Old 05-30-2002, 11:04 AM   #29
nikonl
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Ai symbol

shihonage, i'm quite certain she won't

Erik: i don't quite get what you mean?
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Old 05-30-2002, 01:47 PM   #30
Carl Simard
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After reading this thread, for sure, I'm quite happy to live in a city without subway!!!
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Old 05-30-2002, 02:20 PM   #31
Don_Modesto
Dojo: Messores Sensei (Largo, Fl.)
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Quote:
Originally posted by nikon
shihonage, i'm quite certain she won't
I'm given to understand that domestic squabbles are among the most dangerous for just this reason: Cops stop the husband from beating the wife and she jumps them.

Don J. Modesto
St. Petersburg, Florida
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http://www.theaikidodojo.com/
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Old 05-30-2002, 04:51 PM   #32
SeiserL
 
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Yes, its called the Karpman Drama Triangle from Transactional Analysis. The three positions are abuser, victim, and rescuer. The rescuer rescues by abusing the abuser, making the abuser now the victim, the victim becomes the rescuer by attacking the rescuer who is now the abuser. Carol Shifflett will have an article about this in her new Aikido book.

Until again,

Lynn
Nidan Tenshinkai Aikido
Lucaylucay Kali JKD

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 05-30-2002, 07:25 PM   #33
batemanb
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by shihonage
For all you know, while you're fighting the guys, the girl will come behind you and club you on the head with a bottle.
Quote:
Originally posted by nikon
shihonage, i'm quite certain she won't
Quote:
Originally posted by Don_ModestoI'm given to understand that domestic squabbles are among the most dangerous for just this reason: Cops stop the husband from beating the wife and she jumps them.

See my earlier post

A difficult problem is easily solved by asking yourself the question, "Just how would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
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Old 05-30-2002, 10:24 PM   #34
guest1234
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I've said it before, but I'll say it again (sorry), another reason for the female who is being beaten to defend (verbally or even physically) her abuser is she is trying to avoid his getting any more angry than he already is. My ex- was pretty good at making sure others weren't around before he started on me, but I was just as anxious he not be seen, and not only to hide my embarassment over being 'the kind of wife who makes her husband hit her'.

I knew he hit me if something or someone made him feel bad about himself...and I was extremely invested in not having him feel any worse about himself, as it translated directly into a worse situation for me. Once a man verbally defended me, and I had to wear long sleeves in the Florida summer for weeks afterwards. Once, an Aikidoist demonstrated sankyo on him in a group of us at dinner, ostensibly choosing him randomly, but made a subtle point to him to stop what he was doing to me, not all my friends would look the other way. 24 hours later I was ducking a shovel aimed at my head, and came to the (for me) shocking realization that rather than just hurting me, he might actually kill me.

Women in abusive relationships need to leave them, but the wrong words or actions on the part of a 'rescuer', however well intentioned, can push the abuser into using a gun (they usually own several, mine had 8 or 9) to reassert control and save face. It can also make him think she might actually leave him (as the second fellow did with my ex), which is when the abused wife is most likely to become the murdered wife.

A man beat-up or yelled at or threatened will, once he is again alone, pass that along to his wife (with interest). If you want to rescue an abused wife or girlfriend, make sure the police show up, make sure they arrest him (not just talk to him ), and make sure she gets counselling. Otherwise you may just make it all much worse.
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Old 05-31-2002, 02:19 AM   #35
nikonl
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Ai symbol

I'm very very very certain it wasn't a couple squabble as it involves 3 guys. And the girl was quite frightened that she kept talking on her mobile phone trying to pretend nothing is happening.
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Old 06-01-2002, 08:07 PM   #36
aikido_fudoshin
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The most difficult part of this kind of situation is not knowing why its happening. For example, is this guy getting beaten because he killed the attackers brother or is he just an innocent victim. Should we respond to the situation as if the victim is innocent? Should we be concerned more for our own well being in this situation? I believe in every case we should see the victim as innocent since using violence as a means of payback is unacceptable. Even if helping appears to be useless, an attempt should still be made to break up the situation. Whether this attempt involves yelling at the attackers from a distance or an actual physical confrontation, an attempt should be made. What kind of person can look the other way while a woman is being raped!? I think we should use our Aikido training and intervene by trying to redirect at least some of the attackers energy away from the victim. This could take the form of a simple distraction, or at the very least let them know you are contacting the appropriate authorities. As soon as you step up others will be more inclined to give a helping hand aswell.

Im not saying every situation should require you to move in and try to clean house. As stated before, every situation is different. Our own well being is important aswell and there certainly is no point in having two people ending up dead instead of one. I think it is important we make that attempt to redirect the the attackers energy, while keeping your own safety in mind.
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