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Old 07-03-2008, 10:58 AM   #251
DH
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Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?

Quote:
Dennis Hooker wrote: View Post
Iij = f (Ri, Aj)
-----------
f (Dij)

Interaction (I) between i and j is a function of repulsive forces (R) at i and attractive forces (A) at j, and an inverse function of the friction/distance (D) between i and j

Iij The interaction volume from i to j
Ri a parameter representing (repulsive) factors which are associated with "leaving" i (such as outmigration)
Aj a parameter representing (attractive) factors related to going to j (such as inmigration)
Dij the distance between i and j
Smart alec
Ok Erik er...Dennis. All that does is recognize there is a force going out and potentially one coming in. It doesn't recognize how the force is being generated in, and from, i. Nor how it is either being met, changed, or redirected...within...the body of j.
Which is the heart of the matter since the results- changes everything.
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Old 07-03-2008, 11:17 AM   #252
Dennis Hooker
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Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Smart alec
Ok Erik er...Dennis. All that does is recognize there is a force going out and potentially one coming in. It doesn't recognize how the force is being generated in, and from, i. Nor how it is either being met, changed, or redirected...within...the body of j.
Which is the heart of the matter since the results- changes everything.
Dan my boy, There is a model for that and it is called the Friction Factor but all this logic gets in the way of the human factor and we just can't model it very well. We can predict it somewhat but we just can't model model it with a hoot. .

Dennis Hooker: (DVD) Zanshin and Ma-ai in Aikido
https://www.createspace.com/238049

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Old 07-03-2008, 11:30 AM   #253
jennifer paige smith
 
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Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?

Quote:
Dennis Hooker wrote: View Post
Dan my boy, There is a model for that and it is called the Friction Factor but all this logic gets in the way of the human factor and we just can't model it very well. We can predict it somewhat but we just can't model model it with a hoot. .
Hoo-Hoo. Hoo-Hoo.
(supposed to be picture of owl....here......)

Last edited by jennifer paige smith : 07-03-2008 at 11:33 AM.

Jennifer Paige Smith
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Old 07-03-2008, 11:31 AM   #254
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Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?

Hi Dennis
I long ago gave up. I've worked on it with two engineers I see often, who are stumped. One of whom told me what I was doing should be impossible. Both of whom go off on tangents way over my head. So I can track with you there. They can neither do, or explain what I do. I can do what I do and teach what I do, but I can't model it or explain it mathematically, nor do I care to. Even with one of them being shown to actually do some things to absorb forces, he was still at a loss, but was having fun doing it. He understood the door graphic with the pivot, and could explain it. He just couldn't figure out the spine and how it was supported. And the door model with the central ball bearing left him stumped.

What is more compelling and down right hilarious to me is to have people actually start doing it themselves.
We have three standard comments repeated often. Visitors are sure to say one, two ro all three.
1. What the F#$# is that?
When they feel us and how we move.
2. But I didn't do anything!
When they do things for the first time.
3. How come people don't know this stuff?
Typically said after a long training session.

I have had all three of them written in Kanji to place them on the wall, so we can point, but no one will know until we tell them which one they just said.
I don't think, in over 200 students that math could have or would have helped. Oh were it so easy....."Here see the math, just do that!"

Last edited by DH : 07-03-2008 at 11:42 AM.
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Old 07-03-2008, 10:25 PM   #255
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Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?

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Ignatius Teo wrote: View Post
Sure, there are *some* paths which approach the same general vicinity... which could be miles apart, but that's not the purpose of this discussion... I think.

Perhaps we could all get back on topic... for those who have felt "it" (from whomever), and sorta understand what "it" is that needs to be worked on, or can now reasonably do "it" to some degree... what is the way forward to now bring "it" (back?) into *their* aikido. Or would some, like Mark M, have to leave Aikido™ to continue working at "it"?
Hello Ignatius,
I've been out of state for a week and just returned today. Been awhile trying to catch up on the reading material.

In regards to your question, I think it would really depend upon the organization and the dojo. I think of Itten and they can do things as a group that other places couldn't. Also, there are multiple people there working on aiki. It's a different place than an organizational dojo.

But, if you're one person in a dojo that is focused on learning techniques, then, no, you're just going to confuse your body and make the learning slower. For some, that's fine and they don't mind.

I'm not like that. I'm sort of stubborn and I gave it a year's long attempt, even though I knew aikido(tm) training and aiki...do training were conflicting and diametrically opposed at times. I still grumble at Dan's words of slow boat and 180 degrees in the wrong direction. I grumble because it is the truth and they are hard words to not only accept but understand. I'm a bit thick headed at times, so the understanding is slow to dawn on me.

Unless your training/dojo/organization already is working on aiki...do training (and there's probably only 1 or 2 in the whole U.S. -- if you're thinking that you already do this stuff, then I suggest going and rereading all the threads about it on E-budo and here because a lot of people said that. And when they finally got hands-on experience they said, crap, that isn't anything like what we're doing), then doing both aikido(tm) and aiki...do is going to be slow and at times it will set you back rather than help you forward.

That doesn't mean it can't be done.
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Old 07-03-2008, 10:43 PM   #256
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Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?

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If that were all of it, why then do you suppose, some are seeing a difficulty in "doing" aiki...do while doing Aikido™? Some to the point that they felt it necessary to leave for a while?

I find this intriguing on a couple of levels and have some opinions of my own since 18 years ago I was one of you, and felt I had to leave to develop before I could come back. Rather state my experiences and opinions just yet I'd love to hear others opinions about what is happening in their bodies, and how it is affecting both them and their training partners..
Do you suppose, that as your body changes, you will continue to do waza the same?
Have you considered the effect your training may have in your body in later stages in regards to just how you an uke will interact?
In the first six months, I felt little to no change. I wasn't sure anything was working differently. In 6-9 months, there were moments of "huh" (sorry, inside joke). There were times when things worked very differently. Like say, standing with your back to a wall and having a person push directly on your chest with full force and not feeling it. Then having four more people line up behind the first and they're all pushing and you aren't feeling it. But, you can't step forward off the wall yet. In 9 months-1 year, there was a jump in strangeness. Taking a full force nikkyo and not feeling it yet being light footed and able to move rapidly. These are just a few examples.

I'm working on not having any wrist lock work on me. And if I accomplish that, how can I ever go back to viewing those locks the same? There will be no pain compliance nor control of my center through the locks. So, no, I will not continue to do waza the same. That's a given.

Later stages? I try not to dwell too much on that. I'm already grumbling enough.
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Old 07-05-2008, 07:00 PM   #257
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Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?

Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?

Going back to the title, something that Goldsbury sensei wrote sort of makes me wonder.

http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showpo...1&postcount=48

Quote:
Peter A Goldsbury wrote: View Post
In one sense, the spread of aikido abroad has been the spread of the omote of aikido. The ura has been kept carefully hidden and perhaps this is something people have to find out for themselves.
Apologies for taking it out of context. But, this thread about Aikido™ and Aiki…do seems very applicable here.

So, for giggles and grins, let's just picture that mainstream U.S. aikido training has been only omote. Hence, we get Aikido™, as Dan describes it. And let's say that the ura brings us to Aiki…do. Again, we're looking at this in a hypothetical manner just to step outside the box, as they say.

If we look at it that way, who wouldn't want to pursue ura and go beyond omote to bring their aikido training to a higher level?

The sad part is that I think most people would still not get out and meet/train with Dan/Mike/Akuzawa. But, if some Aikikai shihan, or Doshu came to the U.S. and proclaimed to be teaching the ura, the U.S. aikido world would stand in line waiting for the seminars. Between the authority of Aikikai and the nature of being Japanese, most would either want to go or actually go.

And I guess that's the nature of things. The thousands that trained didn't get far because they weren't "special". They didn't get far because they either weren't shown the proper methods or they were and never worked at them. How far you get is in your hands with the proper training methods.

I do believe that these methods that Dan/Mike/Akuzawa are teaching are the training methods to build aiki. They aren't a shortcut and they don't invalidate Aikido™ per se. It is a matter of how *you* express the aiki. That is what integrates Aikido™ and aiki...do.

Shioda's expression of aikido didn't look like Tomiki or Tohei. Yet they were doing aikido. Yoshinkan coupled with aiki...do will give you another Shioda. Shodokan coupled with aiki...do will give you another Tomiki. For those that put in the solo work, the paired training, the time and effort. Not because someone has "special" talent that creates a master, a great.

Where are we at? At the junction. Because people like Dan, Mike, Rob, and Akuzawa opened up to help others along the way. And it isn't one or the other. There is no Aikido™ vs Aiki…do. The aiki...do builds the structure in the body which allows the expression of Aikido™ to show through. But, the caution label states that your expression of Aikido™ may not be the same ever again. If you look back, though, you'll find that you stand in good company. Shioda, Tomiki, Tohei, etc all brought their own unique expressions.

The choice is yours. Go or don't go. Your training is in your hands. But I can promise you this. In five years or so when those of us who have gone (and continued to train) finally get around to meeting people, those who didn't go are going to regret it and kick themselves over not going. Not because it's out of their reach -- it won't be. Those who have trained will help them. No, it'll be because they're five years behind.
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Old 07-09-2008, 03:28 PM   #258
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Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Hi Rob
Would you mind placing your last two posts in the "Aikido where are we at?" thread.
They are directly related to my request for that thread and would be a better resource point for those looking for guys like you, Mark, Chris, hunter, etc.who want to share aiki within their Aikido. After all you do still teach Aikido.
Well, as I recall my many many discussions with Mike:

1) I argued with Mike about personality more than anything else. There was a nicer way to say many of the things and there was no good reason to be a nasty pants.

2) I RARELY argued with Mike about internal skills. The only arguments we had about internal skills were:

(a) the level of how much was needed in aikido. I am now on his side about how much internal skills/aiki is needed for aikido to be truly effective. I have great appreciation for his help in getting me to see that. The linch pin for my reversal was that

1- I met someone who could deliver internal power while attacking and moving around in general. All of my previous experience was pretty much that some people had such power but pretty much only commanded it well when they stayed in one pace. Like they were almost stuck in a flower pot. Just don't attack the guy stuck in that flower pot over there - OKAY. Big deal. When I met Dan, my opinion of how to power attacks changed. That was very helpful and convincing - but still I thought well okay but how many people are trained like that - that I will have to deal with? 4 in the world, I can avoid them!!! I figured, heck I can shoot them if need be.

2- Dan's approach was that he could deliver such abilities to people in a much smaller amount of time than anyone else I had encountered AND HE WAS AND IS STILL DOING THAT.

Those things amounted to being the linch pin of my reversal on the subject. Had I not had those experiences, I would have continued to dismiss most of Mike's and others criticisms of aikido. The Nisho camp were dealing with MMA type attacks and watching Saotome sensei move around trained martial artists attacking him was impressive enough. Seemed like no one was teaching it any better or faster. Now I see a way to leverage that kind of finesse and more productive power development. I was given a lot of help and I feel responsible to give back and help convince anyone who is also serious about making aikido effective. Testing it that way will help me with my personal goal of applying those physical/mental principles to the spiritual understanding of aikido - which Osensei seemed pretty interested in teaching.

(b) how much was available with the aikido teachers. He has formally retracted his statements about how much aiki skills were available in some of the aikido teachers.

c) about TEACHING internal skills. I felt: So what?! You can theoretically teach someone faster - since you don't ACTUALLY do that, I'm not interested in your dismissal of us flawed aikido teachers. Seems reasonable even now.

If I could go back in time, I'd still take him on - on many of those issues - I'd just do it more constructively and be more of a gentleman about it. He kindly accepted my apology for not being a gentleman during our previous online discussions and we brought order to the force.

Rob
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Old 07-11-2008, 06:42 PM   #259
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Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?

Guy who trained with Ueshiba. He lived next door to the dojo.
Talking about so many of the things we have been bringing up here.
Listen at about 2:30 in to the video. He is talking about Saito sensei and himself among others pushing on O'sensei. I've read this stuff before; where someone cites things done by others, but they-the ones being referred to- never seemed to have discussed it much.
Anyway, its worth hearing.

Then listen about 4:50 in and you discover also why so few know these things anymore.
Its like being gay in the military; don't ask, don't tell.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=JpWY58LWaRE

Also of interest is at the beginning pf the video his referring to Kokyu as an exercise, not a waza, but an exercise. And him asking the audiance if they do pushing as an exercise as well, sitting, standing etc.
Thanks Josh

Last edited by DH : 07-11-2008 at 06:51 PM.
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Old 07-11-2008, 09:28 PM   #260
rob_liberti
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Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?

Interesting talk. I don't think many people would get it to any level of depth until they can makes sense of some of the phrases used like "just relax" and "do nothing" - and other ones needed along the way like "just feel", "no attachment", etc.

The levels of aikido are strength, technique, harmony, michi. My opinion of "just relax" and "do nothing" is that you can't get very far (considering those levels) starting with little other information than just relax" and "do nothing".

- Add years of trying waza with someone who has some degree of internal harmony and aiki who continues to help you with what it isn't (and maybe some hints like "keep weight underside", "vertical is main", "put your intention there", etc.) and you make SOME progress. Get to work with such people and steal by means of kinesthetic perception in ukemi and you get further. You can actually get somewhere reasonably impressive (intermediate level - technique and some degree of harmony) after about 20-30 years of that kind of thing.

- Have the chance of kinesthetic perception with such people as your ukes for concentrated amounts of time (like hours most days) and you make a lot more progress. You can probably get somewhere reasonably impressive (intermediate level) after about 10-15 years of that kind of thing.

- Actually train "central equilibrium" directly and "just relax" helps. You can take a short breath in, and let yourself melt a bit and only stay held up by all of the forces being mentally managed by means of intentions and you can start making some very good progress quickly. You can probably get somewhere reasonably impressive (intermediate level) after about 1-5 years of that kind of thing.

In this way, I am learning how to approach a "productive do nothing" because the additive forces of someone trying to attack/manipulate me are just managed along with all of my own forces without me being very aware of it.

To do this I had to work at learning to "feel" my body into proper structure as opposed to trying to "think" my body into proper strucure which would unfortuntely fight my own muscles. To do that I have not only started yoga, tai massage, and active isolated streteching, but also, I have concentrated on learning to "just feel".

To "just feel" I have had to really let go of the idea of "control" and of the ideas of "attachment to outcome". Basically a lot of the zen crap I read (that really added no value to my previous training) started to finally make a bit of sense. I had been in the "finesse to hide my structural weaknesses" stage. It was primarily all "technique". At the time, my thoughts about aikido resulted in a lot of "talking" which was a form of "control" which was "attached to the outcome" of avoiding someone getting to my weaknesses before I could take control of their weaknesses.

Getting into the "just feel" track to "just relax" seems like it can lead to the level of michi - but of course that seems like an attachment to an outcome and that puts me into zen-thinking that isn't helping much at present again...

Rob

Last edited by rob_liberti : 07-11-2008 at 09:42 PM.
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Old 07-11-2008, 10:04 PM   #261
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Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?

Quote:
Rob Liberti wrote: View Post
Interesting talk. I don't think many people would get it to any level of depth until they can makes sense of some of the phrases used ... steal by means of kinesthetic perception in ukemi 20-30 years ... kinesthetic percetion with such people as your ukes ... about 10-15 years ...

- Actually train "central equilibrium" directly ... forces being mentally managed by means of intentions ... about 1-5 years of that kind of thing.

... To do this I had to work at learning to "feel" my body into proper structure ... To "just feel" I have had to really let go of the idea of "control" and of the ideas of "attachment to outcome".
May I point out, your progression depended on being able to "not think" and to "feel" accurately. There is no basis in your experience to judge that the progression of your experience and its deepening can be so trivially short-circuited - because you are building on a foundation. Also, it cannot be said that thinking about feeling as it occurred necessarily helped. It may even get in the way. Thinking is best when reflective and projective.

Speaking from experience as a pilot as well as from aikido specifically, there is A LOT of learning to be able to relax into riding the dynamic, rather than making the dynamic happen. The first action of control is always OVER-control. Control advances by iterated reduction of compensating (and usually opposing) errors. Competent control occurs when the error range is too small and fast for conscious control and the cerebellum gradually takes over.

The cerebral brain must think -- it is what it does, so give it proper, precise names and concepts to think about, for analyzing after action occurs, and get it OUT of the business of thinking about feeling AS it occurs. That's crosswired, and counterproductive. Getting accurate concepts for the cerebral brain to assess training and plan refined training is at least as important as proper attention to accurate feeling of the magnitude and direction of various forms of error.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
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Old 07-12-2008, 10:38 AM   #262
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Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?

I agree that you think certain things to get to feelings and then you don't need to think so much anymore.

What had been happening was that I achieved some degree of hiding my structural weaknesses while giving myself a bit more time to think when the action got more and more intense. I used tricks about positioning myself relative to the attacker(s), and all sorts of tricks to set up the situation where I would have more structure than the attacker(s) due to my movement and technique relative to their attacks.

Now I can focus much more on what I consider the absolute (Dan's calls central equilibrium). I currently still find myself thinking through a long check list of where to set my intentions while I "not think" about anything else (other than why this image for this push as opposed to some of the the other images). Eventually, that feeling will be maintained and become second nature requiring no thought. As long as someone with some structure keeps pushing on me and testing me I should be able to feel pretty accurately.

This approach removes all of the other games I had been playing to buy time to think - and the games I had been playing to de-structure other people. So the approach short circuits a lot of wasted effort.

I don't think there is 1 person in Dan's barn who has been training as long as I have, and they are all pretty much better than me - even the guy who has about 1.5 total years of experience. And I'm not terrible; they are just making very good progress - which seems to prove - to me anyway - that they can "feel accurately" with way less foundation (or I should say they probably have much more foundation just way less time into foundation).

Regardless, "just relax" takes on a new meaning when you have a more concrete idea of what's taking over the job of muscular tension. Maybe the phrase should read "just relax movement muscles and set up whatever level of structure you need to manage your internal forces in harmony by means of mental intention". And to do that maybe the phrase "just feel" should be changed to "just think enough to get to the situation where you can just feel by getting past the need for control and attainment of most goals" - which is somewhat ironic as it is a goal in and of itself.

Rob
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Old 07-14-2008, 02:05 PM   #263
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Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Guy who trained with Ueshiba. He lived next door to the dojo.
Talking about so many of the things we have been bringing up here.
Listen at about 2:30 in to the video. He is talking about Saito sensei and himself among others pushing on O'sensei. I've read this stuff before; where someone cites things done by others, but they-the ones being referred to- never seemed to have discussed it much.
Anyway, its worth hearing.

Then listen about 4:50 in and you discover also why so few know these things anymore.
Its like being gay in the military; don't ask, don't tell.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=JpWY58LWaRE

Also of interest is at the beginning pf the video his referring to Kokyu as an exercise, not a waza, but an exercise. And him asking the audiance if they do pushing as an exercise as well, sitting, standing etc.
Thanks Josh
It's amazing how many examples there are of Ueshiba using pushing as an exercise or a demonstration. Something the founder of Aikido is doing, yet has little place in today's aikido? Kind of weird. Guess it belongs up there with standing under a cold waterfall.

Mark
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Old 07-14-2008, 02:10 PM   #264
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Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?

Quote:
Mark Murray wrote: View Post
It's amazing how many examples there are of Ueshiba using pushing as an exercise or a demonstration. Something the founder of Aikido is doing, yet has little place in today's aikido? Kind of weird. Guess it belongs up there with standing under a cold waterfall.

Mark
Standing under a waterfall...? Other than to get a great picture, who would do that?

.

I no longer participate in or read the discussion forums here on AikiWeb due to the unfair and uneven treatment of people by the owner/administrator.
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Old 07-14-2008, 02:27 PM   #265
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Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?

I would stand under a waterfall if:
a) it were a hot day and the water was nice and cool and refreshing
b) it was a normal day, and the water was nice and warm and soothing to my neck and back muscles
c) if I were trying to work on my mental intention(s) and I wanted to focus all of my mental intention of every part of my body say rising up - and I thought it might help my concentration to have the water pooring down on me while I worked at it.
d) if had some ability to focus some internal heat and I wanted a "challenge" by doing this on a cool day under cold water.

Those are the only reasons I could come up with.

Rob
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Old 07-14-2008, 02:44 PM   #266
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Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?

Quote:
Rob Liberti wrote: View Post
I would stand under a waterfall if:
a) it were a hot day and the water was nice and cool and refreshing
b) it was a normal day, and the water was nice and warm and soothing to my neck and back muscles
c) if I were trying to work on my mental intention(s) and I wanted to focus all of my mental intention of every part of my body say rising up - and I thought it might help my concentration to have the water pooring down on me while I worked at it.
d) if had some ability to focus some internal heat and I wanted a "challenge" by doing this on a cool day under cold water.

Those are the only reasons I could come up with.

Rob
...ahem,

That was a joke, Rob...

.

I no longer participate in or read the discussion forums here on AikiWeb due to the unfair and uneven treatment of people by the owner/administrator.
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Old 07-14-2008, 02:48 PM   #267
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Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?

Well I kind of assumed so, but in all seriousness, I would be all for options a-c. Option d only if I got really good at self-generating heat. Do you do that? If you care to comment but want this to go to PM that would be fine too...

Rob
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Old 07-14-2008, 02:50 PM   #268
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Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?

Quote:
Rob Liberti wrote: View Post
Well I kind of assumed so, but in all seriousness, I would be all for options a-c. Option d only if I got really good at self-generating heat. Do you do that? If you care to comment but want this to go to PM that would be fine too...

Rob
look for PM

.

I no longer participate in or read the discussion forums here on AikiWeb due to the unfair and uneven treatment of people by the owner/administrator.
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Old 07-14-2008, 02:55 PM   #269
Aikibu
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Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?

Whats wrong with standing under "waterfalls"??? I stand under waterfalls quite often... Only in Surfer Speak... we call them Tubes. LOL

William Misogi Blue Barrels Hazen
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Old 07-14-2008, 03:09 PM   #270
Misogi-no-Gyo
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Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?

Quote:
William Hazen wrote: View Post
Whats wrong with standing under "waterfalls"??? I stand under waterfalls quite often... Only in Surfer Speak... we call them Tubes. LOL

William Misogi Blue Barrels Hazen
Yeah, but I bet you don't find yourself doing furitama, or torifune in those tubes. I mean, you'd probably get escorted off the beach and asked not to return. Of course, you might also find yourself worshiped or asked to start a new religion, but trust me, resist all temptations, as personal experience tells me it just aint worth all the government harassment, child support or other miscellaneous private lawsuits. Don't ask...

.

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Old 07-14-2008, 03:13 PM   #271
Aikibu
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Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?

Quote:
Shaun Ravens wrote: View Post
Yeah, but I bet you don't find yourself doing furitama, or torifune in those tubes. I mean, you'd probably get escorted off the beach and asked not to return. Of course, you might also find yourself worshiped or asked to start a new religion, but trust me, resist all temptations, as personal experience tells me it just aint worth all the government harassment, child support or other miscellaneous private lawsuits. Don't ask...

.
Bro you've been away from Cali for far too long. LOL

William Hazen
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Old 07-15-2008, 11:42 AM   #272
Aikibu
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Re: "Non-Aikido Martial Traditions" Forum

"The Aiki doth protest too much, methinks". - (Act III, Scene II). Hamlet

Bold Italics mine with apologies to Sir William Shakespeare.

Really Aiki Gods who cares...Why get caught up in semantics? Why worry about it at all....Why Harsh Jun's Mellow?

You guys get to spread the word So my humble suggestion is to do so not by just posting on Aikiweb but by going around and teaching what you know...

Dan with all due respect and I mean with all due respect... We get it... We really really do...So it's time for you to fish or cut bait... One can talk only so much...

You have an opportunity with the Web to show us and IMO that is the next step...Let's see it please and it's time to do a bit a traveling and spread the gospel of Aiki one Ikkyo at a time...

Talk is good but it does not change anything.

Respectfully,

William Hazen
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Old 07-15-2008, 12:20 PM   #273
DH
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Re: "Non-Aikido Martial Traditions" Forum

William
Could you please post that in the aikido, V aiki...do thread. I don't think it fits here.
if Jun wants to he can put my answer there to.
**************************

All due respect in return. What the heck do you think I have been doing bud? Do you know how many guys have come here? I mean. Heelloo!
I don't travel to do seminars, If I can it is for my won training in a koryu.
Why not go to Mike? or Ark?

I keep tryng to plan another seminar here again as I have been blasted with emails asking for one, but its been difficult to find time.
I don't do this for money, I do it for fun, and its interesting to me. So there isn't any compelling reason to "get out there" for me.
Talking about people experiences is interesting as well and a nce diversion from work.

Last edited by DH : 07-15-2008 at 12:24 PM.
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Old 07-15-2008, 01:02 PM   #274
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
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Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?

Actually, I **think** the cold water bathing is tied in to some of the holding mental intensions work in the internal training. Have others noticed the incredible amount of heat you can generate working at the standing postures and movements? What about affects on the "suit" that Mike S. speaks of? How might breathing, controlling your body temp under cold water, holding the mental intentions all play together to develop lines of power, control, suit, etc.?

Good questions anyway...

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 07-15-2008, 01:10 PM   #275
Aikibu
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Re: "Non-Aikido Martial Traditions" Forum

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
William
Could you please post that in the aikido, V aiki...do thread. I don't think it fits here.
if Jun wants to he can put my answer there to.
**************************

All due respect in return. What the heck do you think I have been doing bud? Do you know how many guys have come here? I mean. Heelloo!
I don't travel to do seminars, If I can it is for my won training in a koryu.
Why not go to Mike? or Ark?

I keep tryng to plan another seminar here again as I have been blasted with emails asking for one, but its been difficult to find time.
I don't do this for money, I do it for fun, and its interesting to me. So there isn't any compelling reason to "get out there" for me.
Talking about people experiences is interesting as well and a nce diversion from work.
Well forgive me for saying Dan but how about a little vid? Ya know the infamous You Tube or a privately produced DVDR showing how to integrate Aiki into Aikido.

Heck Mark Murry did it a tad and look at the great discussion it generated...

And sorry Dan but again with all due respect you chose to wear the crown... so you have no choice but to act like a King and find a "skillful means" to impart your experience upon your subjects.

The best of the Aikiweb is about sharing the knowledge my friend and with all due respect Bud you have been talking and talking and talking....

At least folks like Abe Sensei are on film.

Respectfully

William Hazen
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