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Old 06-29-2008, 10:19 AM   #176
Mark Mueller
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Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?

and if you were a "master" you would be able to pop the cubes right into the glass......cross thread points!
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Old 06-29-2008, 10:59 AM   #177
Gary David
 
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Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?

Just to throw something in here that just came up for me while my wife and I talked over the once in a great while bacon, eggs, and popovers. I am an only child, while my wife is the second of six children. The recent passage of my wife's mother has brought a lot of stuff up for all of the kids with both parents now gone. My wife is the 2nd and what we talked about is the difference in the raising and the expectations of the first 3 and how the younger three were raised. The older three got more attention from the parents and the expectations were greater on them. At some point my wife's parents just got worn out and essentially left the raising of the younger three to the older children. The older three don't see the world in the same way the younger three do. Something was missing in the training, the training had changed, and the older kids while capable in themselves had a hard time passing along what they had gotten to the younger brother and sisters. I see something similar when viewing Aikido. Strong father, strict with his students while having high expectations. Things happen, things change.... the father goes off for years while the younger of the ist generation students run the show. The father re-appears after years away and adds to the mix, but he has changed again from what was his approach prior to leaving. The 2nd and 3rd generation is not seeing what the 1st generation saw....time and culture being what it is the window to see through is small and opaque.

So what do we do about it.....what we are doing here.... we act like brothers and sisters in large family often do. In the end tho' we need to allow the differences and allow for those who will never agree while giving respect where respect is given and returned.....while finding so common ground were possible.

As for me....i've been training in Aikido since 1974. Through the 70's & 80's I had a chance to cross wrists with just about every Aikido instructor who came through the West Coast, including Tohei Sensei and the 2nd Doshu. Lately I have had the chance to meet with Mike Sigman for a short time, finding him to be what he sez he is. I still have contact with Mike and have found him to be thoughtful and gracious. Dan Harden I have never met and unless he comes to the West Coast I am not likely to, but he raises issues that need to be looked at. Eric I don't know either, tho' I have friends who talk with him and have respect for him and his approach. I guess what I am saying is that this is all good........everyone will come away with something, maybe not even know what it is now. Let me leave with some lines from a Edie Brickell song:

What I am is what I am.
Are you what you are - or what?
I'm not aware of too many things,
but I know what I know if you know what I mean.
Philosophy is a walk on the slippery rocks.

Maybe we need to have a giant block party and see what else we can become aware of...... thanks for listening
Gary
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Old 06-29-2008, 11:31 AM   #178
DH
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Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?

Hi Gary
I see you are addressing Mike, Erik and me and the veracity of the debate. The discussions here aren't really debates to me. I know that many who read them think they are though. I have been having these “discussions” a good long while now. From the days of the aikido list and jujutsu list 14 years ago to now. Those who argued were wrong then, they are wrong now. There really is no debate about the value or validity of this method of training. It seems harsh to hear it, but there are better ways to train then others, that create better results. And those methods are in the Asian arts. You either train this way, or you don’t.
As for Edie's song?
I'd say all of us only know -in part- but its how well we know things we know, and then how much of the whole picture we may know. No one is claming expertise. So I can echo Miss Brickell and say.
I know what I know, if you know what I mean.

Block parties
Excellent idea you had there. You might have missed the point that your "block parties" have been going on for three years now. Snd after hundreds have met-seems there is still...no debate among those who attended.
They all want to train this way nad are exploring the methods to get there.

I've never been a big fan of multiple truths. There is a danger in that it makes everyone feel comfortable with what they know and that everything is on an equal path and will arrive at the same place. That is simply not true.
So I try to remain as nice as I can and keep meeting folks. I let my meager skills, better or worse- speak for themselves.
Again to Miss Brickell.
Philosophy may be a walk on the slippery rocks, but after all these block parties we haven’t been the ones slipping.
The skills speak for themselves, there are better way to train..
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Old 06-29-2008, 12:03 PM   #179
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Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?

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Old 06-29-2008, 12:35 PM   #180
DH
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Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?

One other thing.
I read your comment about allowing for differences. I don't see that as an issue. While there are many, no one is telling someone to go train a certain way. The differences will stand and bear witness to the method trained to get there. It is why the show and tells were so successfull. It was "in your face" that some ways to train were in fact simply the hands-down supperior way to get there. Standing there in a room, there really just wasn't much you could say. For many it was a 'WOW!!" What the hell have I been doing?" moment

In the past here, we were pointing out what may have been missing and why it was to be considered "missing." In that sense some of us brought up the idea of training for aiki, what it is and that it is, that it used to be there and now is by and large missing in most of Aikido™.
That didn't go over well.
Be that as it may, that is more or less old news and done.
Why?
Your block party idea was a huge success.
We have moved forward into Aikido™ people coming out to meet and train and those that did embracing this training and incorporating into their Aikido™ to make it more Aiki...do, hence the thread title. Or they were already training that way to begin with and even some of those have changed.
Those hangers-on, who stuck their head in the sand over the last three years, are not even part of the discussion. Erik and others who want to keep the debate alive have no place in the thread. I have asked them to address their fellow aikidoka who came, felt, and started doing aiki...do after encountering real aiki. Not bring up old arguments that many just are not interested in anymore.

Last dying gasp
The cat is out of the bag, and people want this type of training in their art-for themselves. IMO, those who haven't been trained this way already, or those who don't believe it and are hanging on to Aikido™ instead of adopting methods to train the way of aiki (my Aiki...do reference) are going to go the way of the dodo bird.

Aikido™ as having a reputation as an effective fighting art, has taken up the rear of the bus and been a mockery for too many, too long. It is my hope that the way that Aikido™ has been practiced as an art- eviscerated by so many- dies, and that Aiki...do rises out of the ashes as one of the finest and more potent arts in the world. A new Aikido™ that makes any and every one think twice about making a comment like that, after feeling its power.

Back to the barbeque.

Last edited by DH : 06-29-2008 at 12:40 PM.
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Old 06-29-2008, 01:05 PM   #181
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Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?

Dan
I feel that you, Mike, Akazawa & Rob and many others are doing a service for us all. I think I was getting at the notion that we don't all get it at the same time. While getting hit by the 2x4 wakes some of us up, some are more adjusted to the trickle down affect. For me it is about knowing what I know until I realize it is not enough or all that could be known. I have said before that all of this is like a building with many floors......while we should start in the basement with "foundations" most tool around on the 1st floor picking up on what is there. Most of us find it hard to believe there are more floors above as we never find those doors, in some ways what you, Mike and others are doing is showing everyone the door to the basement from where you can actually go from the 1st to the 2nd and the floors above.......a path much harder to find if you only started on the 1st floor.

keep at it.....
Gary
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Old 06-29-2008, 01:58 PM   #182
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Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?

Mark, it would be aiki if you only popped out one center cube, leaving the others intact, and it landed in the glass.

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Old 06-29-2008, 02:03 PM   #183
Mark Mueller
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Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?

Kevin,

What is the sound of one ice cube popping?



BTW, I checked out the Army combatitives champonships on PPV.....Pretty good stuff you guys are doing.

mark
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Old 06-29-2008, 03:41 PM   #184
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Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?

This is a kind invitation to anyone who would like to come and train with me.
I love aikido, no matter how ya spell it. I love learning new things and I love to share.
I hope that what comes from all this 'non-debate" is a time when we train with each other, in our own paradigms and then others, so we can all benefit from the good learning and training that has been done; both poetry and prose.

Last edited by jennifer paige smith : 06-29-2008 at 03:45 PM.

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Old 06-29-2008, 07:21 PM   #185
rob_liberti
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Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?

Hi Jennifer, count me "eventually" in. I'm not ready yet, but my family and I love to travel on vacation. I have to stay focused here for a while longer, but I'll be up for many away games as soon as I have something I can reliably deliver without needing Dan or his students to get me out of my own way for some start up time.

Also, to correct something I misrepresented earlier - I spoke of in yo ho and I thought of that concept too much using my denotation ideas - just thinking of them a "opposite directions" (and I mis-applyed that concept to "intention" in multiple opposite directions). Apparently, there is a connotation to that concept that is really is meant to describe a "breath" method. (As I straighten out my mis-understandings I'll try to clean up the mess I left behind.)

I strongly believe that many paths begin to approach the same place but few will really get you there because of inherent misunderstandings about the approach which gets in the way. But this brings to light 2 truths (to me anyway):
1) all paths do NOT go to the same place,
2) many, many people on the path of aikido WANT to be going where I want to go -at least initially - (and as an aikidoka I think I can relate to THAT in like-minded aikidoka who also happen to LOVE aikido like I do and so I feel I can help bridge a few gaps)

Bottom lines - Direct aiki training is coming to aikido-proper sooner than later. I'll help as much as I can becuase frankly its the right thing to do for aikido.

Rob

Last edited by rob_liberti : 06-29-2008 at 07:25 PM.
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Old 06-29-2008, 09:30 PM   #186
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Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?

Sure, there are *some* paths which approach the same general vicinity... which could be miles apart, but that's not the purpose of this discussion... I think.

Perhaps we could all get back on topic... for those who have felt "it" (from whomever), and sorta understand what "it" is that needs to be worked on, or can now reasonably do "it" to some degree... what is the way forward to now bring "it" (back?) into *their* aikido. Or would some, like Mark M, have to leave Aikido™ to continue working at "it"?

Ignatius
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Old 06-29-2008, 09:33 PM   #187
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Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?

Fair point. What do you do?
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Old 06-29-2008, 10:40 PM   #188
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Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?

Quote:
Gary Welborn wrote: View Post
Dan
I feel that you, Mike, Akazawa & Rob and many others are doing a service for us all. I think I was getting at the notion that we don't all get it at the same time.....
..... Most of us find it hard to believe there are more floors above as we never find those doors, in some ways what you, Mike and others are doing is showing everyone the door to the basement from where you can actually go from the 1st to the 2nd and the floors above.......a path much harder to find if you only started on the 1st floor.

keep at it.....
Gary
Well you'll have to talk to Mike, Rob, or Ark, but I hope people get out to meet and feel a LOT of people either doing or claiming to do this stuff, make judgments, comparisons, and find out who some real experts are. Then see who can or can't teach it, see if they will teach you, and then just keep at it themselves. I aint much, but I'll try and help if I can. No one can do the work for you though. Being shown a door out of the basement is one thing, but only you can climb the stairs,
I still maintain, its good to find someone with real skill. Next, look past them at their students-you just may be seeing you. If they don't have it-find out why or leave. Everyone only goes round once. So we need to make the best of it.
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Old 06-30-2008, 12:46 AM   #189
eyrie
 
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Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?

Quote:
Rob Liberti wrote: View Post
Fair point. What do you do?
It's not so much "what", it's more like "how"...

See Kevin L's post here:
Quote:
Again, Mike didn't really show us nothing new..just told us alot of stuff about "HOW" to do it a little more correctly, and WHY you want to do it. and emphasized that you need to do it ALOT.
And Rob J's post here.

The Aiki Taiso of Ki-Society is a good start to the "what"... BUT if that was all there was to it - simply doing those particular exercises - then why are we even having this discussion? Why do some feel they already do "it", but have no idea what some of "us" are talking about?

FWIW, if you know what "it" is you're supposed to be training, then technically speaking, it doesn't matter "what" exercises you do, coz the way you rewire your body is how you move and therefore all movement becomes an expression of "it". You could be doing a "standing" posture or some qigong/misogi variant... as long as "it" is what you're training and not something else.

To answer the question, what do I do... a lot more solo training - shovelling mulch, digging heavy clay, lifting bags of chaff or chicken feed, pushing on horses and having them push me back, tug of war with the dog, sweeping the floor, hanging out the washing, even lifting a coffee cup - it's all training.

Ignatius
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Old 06-30-2008, 04:56 AM   #190
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Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?

Quote:
It's not so much "what", it's more like "how"...
If that were all of it, why then do you suppose, some are seeing a difficulty in "doing" aiki...do while doing Aikido™? Some to the point that they felt it necessary to leave for a while?

I find this intriguing on a couple of levels and have some opinions of my own since 18 years ago I was one of you, and felt I had to leave to develop before I could come back. Rather state my experiences and opinions just yet I'd love to hear others opinions about what is happening in their bodies, and how it is affecting both them and their training partners..
Do you suppose, that as your body changes, you will continue to do waza the same?
Have you considered the effect your training may have in your body in later stages in regards to just how you an uke will interact?

Last edited by DH : 06-30-2008 at 05:00 AM.
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Old 06-30-2008, 06:06 AM   #191
rob_liberti
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Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?

Well, I can apply what I have learned directly to ikkyo, nikyo, kotegaeshi, and sankyo in aikido-proper.

Yonkyo - the way it has typically been taught - has to be commpletely let go. It is fine as an example of something that works on people who haven't trained structure and intention. I suppose it could still show up as a potential finishing move for sankyo if you just want to describe the energy cycle(s).

Taking ukemi changes a bit and I still have a lot of work to do in thinking about how to apply what I am learning in aiki...do to aikido-proper (no MS word available on this PC).

Rob
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Old 06-30-2008, 08:57 AM   #192
jennifer paige smith
 
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Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?

Quote:
Rob Liberti wrote: View Post
Hi Jennifer, count me "eventually" in. I'm not ready yet, but my family and I love to travel on vacation. I have to stay focused here for a while longer, but I'll be up for many away games as soon as I have something I can reliably deliver without needing Dan or his students to get me out of my own way for some start up time.

Also, to correct something I misrepresented earlier - I spoke of in yo ho and I thought of that concept too much using my denotation ideas - just thinking of them a "opposite directions" (and I mis-applyed that concept to "intention" in multiple opposite directions). Apparently, there is a connotation to that concept that is really is meant to describe a "breath" method. (As I straighten out my mis-understandings I'll try to clean up the mess I left behind.)

I strongly believe that many paths begin to approach the same place but few will really get you there because of inherent misunderstandings about the approach which gets in the way. But this brings to light 2 truths (to me anyway):
1) all paths do NOT go to the same place,
2) many, many people on the path of aikido WANT to be going where I want to go -at least initially - (and as an aikidoka I think I can relate to THAT in like-minded aikidoka who also happen to LOVE aikido like I do and so I feel I can help bridge a few gaps)

Bottom lines - Direct aiki training is coming to aikido-proper sooner than later. I'll help as much as I can becuase frankly its the right thing to do for aikido.

Rob
You and your family are welcome anytime. In that space it would be lovely to talk of the aiki of nature and how it finds its way to one through solid, structured training. This is the language of internal skills(small i) that I often speak of, it goes hand in hand with the aiki of which you speak as best as I can tell. Best way to discover is to be in the same place at the same time & I'm available. Thanks.
An addition of my own to your bottom line is that nature is coming to aikido proper because frankly it is the right thing to do .
Again, thanks for the chat.

Jennifer Paige Smith
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Old 06-30-2008, 09:09 AM   #193
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Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?

Quote:
Jennifer Smith wrote: View Post
...it would be lovely to talk of the aiki of nature and how it finds its way to one through solid, structured training. This is the language of internal skills(small i) that I often speak of, it goes hand in hand with the aiki of which you speak as best as I can tell. .
How? It would be interesting to hear where you find similarites in your training, Jenn?
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Old 06-30-2008, 01:17 PM   #194
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Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?

I didn't know Aikido was trademarked...

As to technique vs. mindset, you may or may not find both in almost any art. While the instructor/sensei has much to do with whether one learns anything, the student/deshi will, after a time, realize whether they are learning what they are seeking.

I guess the question is, Does Aikido, the Way of Harmoney, require one (internal philosophy), the other (technique), or both? My thought is that it requires both. Why? Being able to defend oneself brings a certain peace (even if that defense is perceived) for a person that allows them to remain centered when faced with "opposition." While not required, it helps.

Imagine if everyone could respond in a fight as if they were just moving their angle of approach when walking in a mall in order to avoid an oncoming shopper. The "panic," which leads to bad decisions, would be avoided.

Of course, if you want one or the other and you find it in Aikido, kudos to you!
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Old 06-30-2008, 05:45 PM   #195
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Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?

Quote:
James Taylor wrote: View Post
Imagine if everyone could respond in a fight as if they were just moving their angle of approach when walking in a mall in order to avoid an oncoming shopper. The "panic," which leads to bad decisions, would be avoided.
In my experience, I find that this "angle of approach" business is what you have to do when you don't have better structure/ internal intentions than your attacker. And (IME) practicing that stuff tends to get you moving your hips all around taking away from your chances of developing your internal power.

Rob
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Old 06-30-2008, 06:26 PM   #196
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Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?

I tend to look at Aikido movement like Iai movement. The opening of the hips and chest and turning from the hips just bleeds away power and stability. Even when they draw with the hips its weakness not a strength. While they talk about unified body movement, I have (almost without exception) felt stiff-frame, one-side-open, movement that is both easy to take, and can be read like a book in weight transfer.which is also easy to see via video. The most frustrating people are sometimes aikido people in that their hanmi is wrong, movement wrong, tenkan wrong, Irimi wrong, and the use of the shoulders (everyone say "We don't use our shoulders in our school"...er...okay) is so ingrained that it is sometimes very daunting to rewire movement. Grapplers usually are easier for me to train this way. As I said, it's far easier to take the center of someone moving Aikido™ style than a grappler.
I'll leave it at that, since everyone who has gone to feel the guys advocating internal aiki training have felt what I am talking about. The trick is -and I hope to start discussing it here in the days to come- how do you train the body to move in a centrally held balance while still doing Aikido™. After rewiring and spending countless hours to graina more connected body and wanting to take full advantage of what that brings to an encounter, how would you train a waza designed by its very architecture, to give away so much. Suhc as doing the very things mentioned in the above quote and in Rob's reply.
Quite frankly I suspect that as these men continue to train they will not only change their movement, their bodies (maybe even before their brains will be willing to wrap around it) will start to see more clearly and demand a change in approach. As a teacher, maybe it's not a problem, as a student? Hmm..
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Old 06-30-2008, 07:01 PM   #197
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Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?

Rob wrote:

Quote:
In my experience, I find that this "angle of approach" business is what you have to do when you don't have better structure/ internal intentions than your attacker. And (IME) practicing that stuff tends to get you moving your hips all around taking away from your chances of developing your internal power.
I disagree with this in a way. I find it always better to move out of the way of an attack than deal with it directly. If at anytime you can do this, I think it is better. Caveat, as long as it puts you in a position that allows you to control the situation. Create distance, use your weapon, run...strike...whatever...

that said, the problem with this is that we assume that we can do actually do this in our scenarios, when in fact I don't think it happens all that much.

From a "combatives" perspective, there is a reason why we are dealing with an attack empty handed, and it is usually because the guy we are fighting has acheived some short of tactical advantage.

So, how to you make out? If you have good integrity and power, well then you are in a position to do something, if not, then he just keeps on coming.

This is why I am interested in this stuff. Couple that with the Harmony, (AI) which comes from taking a bad situaiton and skillfully dealing with it with Power (KI) then you have something to make a choice with. Without it, you don't have much at all.

So, while I disagree with your base logic about moving off line and off the angle of attack...I also agree as I see the real issue is that we assume we have choices that in reality we probably don't in a conflict.

Probably why Dan finds grapplers easier to work with is that we/they work this timing and "point of failure" over and over again.

Grappling provides you a different feel for proprioception and timing and you must develop some very keen reflexes, and you must maintain integrity or you lose.

Dan Wrote:

Quote:
how would you train a waza designed by its very architecture, to give away so much.
Me personally?

I am working on re-wiring my core and developing strength ala Mike and Ark. I also spend a fair amount of time on the BJJ mat dealing with guys that are pushing hard on you in a way that you do not have the option but to deal with their "force"/"power". I am also spending time in aikido practice trying to change how I approach things...trying to make a better connection with my core to theirs and transmitting power very efficiently. trying to leave out the upper, body and shoulders so their is no "read" from uke of where I am in the process.

As you know Dan, a big part of grappling success relies on your ability to "hide" what you are doing from you opponent. If you are using strength and power from your arms, then they can feel the second you move and counter it. Using your core and the ground more efficiently, I think, allows you to "hide" this and explode into him before he can "transmit" and process what is going on.

...or something like that.

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Old 06-30-2008, 07:05 PM   #198
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Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?

To add to my above post....I approach my Aikido waza practice no differently than I do my BJJ or Judo...I approach it exactly the same. What I like about aikido is that is allows me to work slower, more dilberately and concentrate on the "re-wiring" practice.

yes, some uke are hard to work with if they give up or bail out...but overall, I find no issues and can always find something to work on with just about any uke.

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Old 06-30-2008, 07:06 PM   #199
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Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
I tend to look at Aikido movement like Iai movement. The opening of the hips and chest and turning from the hips just bleeds away power and stability. Even when they draw with the hips its weakness not a strength. While they talk about unified body movement, I have (almost without exception) felt stiff-frame, one-side-open, movement that is both easy to take, and can be read like a book in weight transfer.which is also easy to see via video. The most frustrating people are sometimes aikido people in that their hanmi is wrong, movement wrong, tenkan wrong, Irimi wrong, and the use of the shoulders (everyone say "We don't use our shoulders in our school"...er...okay) is so ingrained that it is sometimes very daunting to rewire movement. Grapplers usually are easier for me to train this way. As I said, it's far easier to take the center of someone moving Aikido™ style than a grappler.
I'll leave it at that, since everyone who has gone to feel the guys advocating internal aiki training have felt what I am talking about. The trick is -and I hope to start discussing it here in the days to come- how do you train the body to move in a centrally held balance while still doing Aikido™. After rewiring and spending countless hours to graina more connected body and wanting to take full advantage of what that brings to an encounter, how would you train a waza designed by its very architecture, to give away so much. Suhc as doing the very things mentioned in the above quote and in Rob's reply.
Quite frankly I suspect that as these men continue to train they will not only change their movement, their bodies (maybe even before their brains will be willing to wrap around it) will start to see more clearly and demand a change in approach. As a teacher, maybe it's not a problem, as a student? Hmm..
Thanks for your insights into regular Aikido Waza Dan. It gives me a basis to ask you your thoughts on ours...

1. Our Hanmi has both feet pointed forward in a manner similar to Kendo or some Koryu Waza. Our toes remain pointed/centered on Uke and we are light on our feet moving through our body.

2.Most movement are done "half step" IOW the footwork is smaller in circumferance... more circular... and helps to keep your back straight centered in your hips and relaxed.

3. Our movement Tenkan, Irimi is done half step whole body by relaxing turning your hips and body in a small circle to "compress/gather" your center/energy with Uke and then at a certain point releasing that energy by reversing the movement. I guess its kind of like twisting and untwisting a rubber band. The compression and uncompression moevments are done in rythem with the breath... gather breath in release breath out

In discussing this with some folks who are very familiar with your training they just did not see how it could compare with yours/ On a scale of one to ten... You being a ten we both agreed that perhaps our style of Aikido is at a two....Three at best....The question is is there enough of a base of physical understanding in order for us to make a start at learning yours?

William Hazen
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Old 06-30-2008, 07:12 PM   #200
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Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?

Good questions Dan....
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Dan Harden wrote: View Post
If that were all of it, why then do you suppose, some are seeing a difficulty in "doing" aiki...do while doing Aikido™? Some to the point that they felt it necessary to leave for a while?
I'm not going to speculate as to why, but it's a good question to consider... My personal feeling is that uke and nage both have a role to play and waza is simply a framework in which uke is helping nage find "it" and work "it", rather than some specified response of doing something to someone.

Quote:
I'd love to hear others opinions about what is happening in their bodies, and how it is affecting both them and their training partners...Do you suppose, that as your body changes, you will continue to do waza the same? Have you considered the effect your training may have in your body in later stages in regards to just how you an uke will interact?
Same as what? Generally, I'd have to say "no"... firstly, there wouldn't be the need to take so many steps and pivots to effect "technique". "Waza" would no longer look like the set, structured movement as evidenced by the countless videos on YouTube.

Technique would be more freeform and less rigid. Ikkyo would no longer look like the wide arc arm sweeps and yank that so many do - uke will simply bounce and/or roll off into ikkyo with you just "turning" on your vertical axis. The countless opportunities for atemi will present themselves as uke finds themselves immediately off-balanced on contact.

Uke will bounce off when they grab your wrist or arm as you "irimi" without moving your feet. When you "tenkan", uke will feel as if they're being sucked into a blackhole.

Generally, there would be little need for "precise and beautiful technique" with big expansive movements resulting in spectacular breakfalls on uke's part. Uke will fall at your feet and not know how they got there.

On the flip side, as uke you will become "heavier" and harder to move. You will feel like a "log" to them and any attempt to throw you with pure muscular strength would yield little result for all that effort... despite the fact that you might be standing on one foot in a seemingly precarious position. If nage breaks structure, you as uke will find it easy to simply walk thru them as you enter to attack.

Of course, I am no where near being able to do any of this to any real or consistent degree... if Mike's only an amateur, then I'm at best, a rank hobbyist.

Just by playing tug-o-war with a puppy who is a mere fraction of my size and at least 3-4x stronger than I am, I realize how much more connected, and less in the shoulders, I could be. But it's a long, slow process getting there.

Last edited by eyrie : 06-30-2008 at 07:21 PM.

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