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Old 06-03-2008, 09:51 AM   #26
rob_liberti
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Re: effectivness of technique

Quote:
Ron Ragusa wrote: View Post
Hi Rob -

Just curious, how would you define "real aikido"?

Do you also want the comic book hero responsibilities that go along with those powers?

Best,

Ron
Well I alluded to it in the next sentence but I'll be happy to further elaborate. My opinion is that the spiritual study of aikido is vitally important. Otherwise, aikido would simply be "Ueshiba-ha Daite Ryu" _at best_ where the throws have been mainly converted to "out and away" from "in and down". It is also my opinion that to understand the spiritual principles Osensei found so valuable, it would be best to manifest the principles physically so there would be a better basis of understanding. To do that, I believe internal training combined with level appropriate progressive resistance is also very important.

And you, what do you believe is "real aikido"? Do you believe that the spiritual aspects are important? What is your approach towards "getting there"?

As far as what I want - I suppose in terms of my ego, I would prefer power without responsibility for myself, and for everyone else with power to have responsibility! From a place of spiritual generousity, I suppose I would want commensurate responsbility for myself.

Rob

Last edited by rob_liberti : 06-03-2008 at 09:53 AM.
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Old 06-03-2008, 11:08 AM   #27
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Re: effectivness of technique

Quote:
Rob Liberti wrote: View Post
Well I alluded to it in the next sentence but I'll be happy to further elaborate. My opinion is that the spiritual study of aikido is vitally important. Otherwise, aikido would simply be "Ueshiba-ha Daite Ryu" _at best_ where the throws have been mainly converted to "out and away" from "in and down". It is also my opinion that to understand the spiritual principles Osensei found so valuable, it would be best to manifest the principles physically so there would be a better basis of understanding. To do that, I believe internal training combined with level appropriate progressive resistance is also very important.

And you, what do you believe is "real aikido"? Do you believe that the spiritual aspects are important? What is your approach towards "getting there"?

As far as what I want - I suppose in terms of my ego, I would prefer power without responsibility for myself, and for everyone else with power to have responsibility! From a place of spiritual generousity, I suppose I would want commensurate responsbility for myself.

Rob
Hi Rob -

I don't have a formal definition but here's one way I view Aikido (from Being, Essence & Motion: Aikido as a Way of Understanding, a blog I have been working on for some time):

"We are all composed of the same stuff. Yet we're all so different. We come in all manner of shapes, sizes and colors. Our temperaments are as varied as we are many. Humans are so complex. So individual but capable of coming together to perform works of building and manufacturing that any of us alone would be incapable of. We create and grow large bodies of knowledge in myriad subject areas; again working in collaborative groups.

Aikido is just another body of knowledge. Aikido didn't spring from nowhere. It began as the inspiration of one man, O-Sensei, who built his system on the edifice of prior learning, molding his knowledge into something new and beautiful. He began to teach his system to others who, in turn, added to the body of knowledge called Aikido as they passed beyond being taught into learning. Aikido has grown beyond the original art conceived by O-Sensei. One need only observe practitioners from a variety of schools to see that Aikido is anything but linear in its form and execution. Indeed, within the same school there will be noticeable variations of technique. To expect otherwise is not realistic.

Aikido is, perhaps, the most mutable of all the martial arts. Because the techniques of Aikido are based on serendipitous interaction of uke and nage and, as has been stated above, we are all so different, the possibilities of variation of technique are manifold."

You and I quite agree on the importance of internal training (Ki development) and the role of progressive resistance as a tool facilitating the growth of internal strength. At our dojo we practice one while employing the other although mostly within the carefully defined structure of our Ki development syllabus.

Regarding your question as to whether I consider the spiritual aspects of Aikido important, I'll say yes and that the study of Aikido has helped me discover the spiritual side of myself that remained repressed for many years. And since I view spiritual development as a private personal matter I'll leave it at that.

Best,

Ron
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Old 06-03-2008, 09:09 PM   #28
Mark Jakabcsin
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Re: effectivness of technique

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Mary Eastland wrote: View Post
So here is my question....is every single technique that every single student does in your dojo guaranteed to be martially effective every time they throw?

Earnestly,
Mary
The truth is techniques are neither effective or ineffective. People....individual people are effective or ineffective. IMO, a far more insightful question is how does your are teach/train/prepare individuals to be effective?

Some related and interesting follow up questions:

- Does your art help a student identify fear and stress in him/herself?

- How does your art teach/train/prepare the student to deal with fear and stress?

- What is the mechanism in your training method that allows and encourages each student to self examine and find his/her Aikido (or other idealism)? Is it simply; do it this way because this was someone's path and it must lead somewhere?

- Does your training method encourage self exploration or teacher worship and emulation?

At the end of the day you can have all of the technique you want, if one cannot identify, understand and deal with the fear the technique is worthless. Getting a true understanding of ourselves is often the scariest action of all, how does your training help with that?

MJ
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Old 06-03-2008, 09:13 PM   #29
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Re: effectivness of technique

Quote:
Mary Eastland wrote: View Post
So here is my question....is every single technique that every single student does in your dojo guaranteed to be martially effective every time they throw?
So we go from "there is no fight in Aikido" to the above quoted question. It seems that the questions of "fighting", "martial effectiveness" or "self defence value" are causing some stirring in your spirit of late.

I think the following videos will lend some context to your position in this discussion, at least lending some visual assistance to what you are trying to impart in your training method and how it fits within the whole "effectiveness" debate - http://www.miron-enterprises.com/ber...do/videos.html.

Best.
LC

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
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Old 06-03-2008, 09:44 PM   #30
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Re: effectivness of technique

I too see a difference between elements of training like technique, drill, live-training environments, etc., and even things like prayer, meditation, ritual, etc. Is any one of these things everything? That is a weird question in my mind. However, the question of "real" or "effective" remains relevant for me. I understand it to be a bit different, however. For me, what is real and what is effective is marked by consistency of thought and application. This is how I judge what I'm doing and what I'm not doing and also what I deem to be authentic and effective.

David M. Valadez
Visit our web site for articles and videos. Senshin Center - A Place for Traditional Martial Arts in Santa Barbara.
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Old 06-04-2008, 10:33 AM   #31
rob_liberti
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Re: effectivness of technique

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Mark Jakabcsin wrote: View Post
The truth is techniques are neither effective or ineffective. People....individual people are effective or ineffective.
I disagree. There are definately MANY poor techniques.
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Old 06-04-2008, 12:38 PM   #32
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Re: effectivness of technique

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Rob Liberti wrote: View Post
I disagree. There are definately MANY poor techniques.
There are no absolutes about anything...I once saw a Grandma defeat a Gangster who was trying to rob her and she used a fly swatter to do it LOL

All I care about is if it's effective for me and I have been there done that and gone through my own loooooong learning curve of experiance with "effective vs ineffective."

William Hazen

Last edited by Aikibu : 06-04-2008 at 12:40 PM.
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Old 06-04-2008, 12:38 PM   #33
Ron Tisdale
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Re: effectivness of technique

A gangster was using a fly swatter to rob a grandma???

B,
R

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Old 06-04-2008, 03:10 PM   #34
Aikibu
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Re: effectivness of technique

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Ron Tisdale wrote: View Post
A gangster was using a fly swatter to rob a grandma???

B,
R
LOL thank god for edit buttons..

"WHAT!!! WHAT AINT NO COUNTRY I EVER HEARD OF!!! DO THEY SPEAK ENGLISH IN WHAT?!?!!" Pulp Fiction

William Hazen
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Old 06-04-2008, 04:49 PM   #35
Ron Tisdale
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Re: effectivness of technique

I love that movie...

Best,
Ron

Oh, and I also think that it is the person, not the technique, in general. Which is not to say that there aren't bad techniques. My own personal struggle is to make aikido techniques work against a larger person who is resisting and trying to really throw you...which, if you don't have the internals together, seems like a chore...

Last edited by Ron Tisdale : 06-04-2008 at 04:53 PM. Reason: thread drift prevention :D

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Old 06-04-2008, 11:38 PM   #36
rob_liberti
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Re: effectivness of technique

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Ron Tisdale wrote: View Post
Oh, and I also think that it is the person, not the technique, in general.
I disagree with this too. What about the person is working?
Isn't all of the internal training that Dan and Mike and Aukuzawa are teaching structual technique and intention techniques? I would imagine that these are the exact things Tohei sensei and Moriyama sensei were also trying to teach in the best ways they could.

The only difference is to what degree we feel it is valuable to test the abilities we are developing. The idea that testing such skills to the MMA level is "fear-based" is frustratingly inconsistent.
I'm not afraid of MMA popping out randomly in my dojo or my daily life. I've argued this successfully here AND on bullshido.com. It's a stupid idea to think that I'll be standing in line at the bank and someone will go for a double leg take down. I keep thinking I'll make you tube video where I do such things as a joke and call is "MMA in daily life fantasy day". I want to learn these skills and test them as thoroughly as I can because:
1) they are fun
2) they are intersting
3) I have an integrated mind and more ways of looking at things help
4) I want to study the spiritual principles of aikido deeply and having the best basis of comparison in a physical sense will help tremendously - much like it helped Osensei.
5) aikido as it stands typically sucks in terms of protecting loved ones from attackers. I have a 4 year old. I would like to improve my odds of stopping someone from grabbing him in a mall or striking my wife in a parking lot, or whatever.
6) I teach aikido. As a martial art where one expects to learn about self-defence; I have a responsibility to offer the highest level of instruction.

When I read that such endeavors are "fear based" methinks "aiki projection" has multiple meanings.

Rob

Last edited by rob_liberti : 06-04-2008 at 11:42 PM.
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Old 06-05-2008, 06:00 AM   #37
Ron Tisdale
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Re: effectivness of technique

Hi Rob, nice post, the second half anyway.

I say the person, because the skills Mike - Dan - Ark build are specific to one person and one person's body. They are not techniques...they are the engine that should drive techniques. With that particular engine driving, many things are possible.

I tend to agree with Dan here...waza collecting bunnies are going 100 miles an hour...in the wrong direction!

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
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Old 06-05-2008, 07:30 AM   #38
rob_liberti
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Re: effectivness of technique

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Ron Tisdale wrote: View Post
Hi Rob, nice post, the second half anyway.

I say the person, because the skills Mike - Dan - Ark build are specific to one person and one person's body. They are not techniques...they are the engine that should drive techniques. With that particular engine driving, many things are possible.

I tend to agree with Dan here...waza collecting bunnies are going 100 miles an hour...in the wrong direction!

Best,
Ron
To me, learning the principles more deeply from Dan, I still see myself manifesting those principles while I am learning and to me that is a skill set of body-techniques and intention-techniques. But we are down to semantics and if you are not swayed by my stunning display of logic here, then at least we have an agreement in principle (and that's just a bit ironic ).

Rob
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Old 06-05-2008, 07:50 AM   #39
Mark Jakabcsin
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Re: effectivness of technique

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Rob Liberti wrote: View Post
I disagree with this too. What about the person is working?
Rob
Rob,

This is a big topic in itself and could be a thread. There are many facit of the person that are working. Two of the biggest are the mind and the emotions. If an individual does not/cannot work these two properly any technique he/she chooses will not work and that is not the fault of the technique.

The mind collects information from our senses and makes decisions based on this data. In a perfect situation this collection gathers 100% of all available information and the mind understands exactly what is occurring. In actuality this NEVER happens. Our past experiences and understanding of the world create a giant filter to help us interpret the world more quickly (not more accurately, more quickly). Likewise our emotions in the form of desires, fears, ego, etc., are an even bigger filter that further distorts our perception of the world and alters our decision making process. Training the mind and emotions for the least amount of distortion and the quickest decisions is what the person is working....or trying to work, whether they know it or not.

To get a better understanding of what I am talking about I suggest a book called "Deep Survival: Who Lives, Who Dies and Why" by Laurence Gonzales. It is not the quintessential work on the topic but is an interesting and easy read with loads of good information.

A quick example to further explain:
(Clarification: When I say 'you' in the following section it is the universal 'you' not a specific 'you.')

An attacker grabs forward with his right very quickly and it startles you for a fraction. However you have seen similar situations in your training and you know from experience your favorite technique is X. You are most comfortable doing technique X because you have the most success with this technique. You have a good understanding of technique X and an excellent mental picture of how to apply technique X and a good picture of the end result. Hence you are going to save yourself with technique X and begin to apply it. Now the attackers grab did not exactly match the training grab normally done for technique X but this is your best technique so adapt a little and go for it.

Unfortunately technique X works best off of a rear posture disturbance and the attacker is committed slightly forward. As you attempt to apply technique X you feel things are not right but hey this is your best one and hence your best choice, perhaps a little bit of strength applied just so will help or maybe a slight change in angle will do the trick. Now you feel the attacker resisting and actively moving. You still have this picture in your mind about how technique X looks when it is completed and you are attempting to make reality match that picture, after all this is your best technique. We can go on but you get the picture, I hope.

Our filters of past experience and our desire for a specific result can hinder us and distort our ability to make proper decisions. Clearly technique Y would have been better to start and once the situation changed slightly technique R was better or even technique E would have been good. You were stuck on X because of past experiences and an inability to truly see the situation for what it was instead of what you wanted it to be. I.E. People are effective or ineffective, not techniques. Change the attack a little and X is the way to go.

A technique is neither good nor bad, a person either understands how and WHEN to apply it or not. A person is the one that has the ability to perceive a situation correctly or not and continually adjust or not. The more stressful the situation the more difficult it is to perceive accurately and make proper decisions that match reality. In a very real sense this is can be a limitations of a technique based training system.

What is the mechanism in your training that challenges and develops the student's ability to properly perceive situations? What is the method of training you use to help students identify the emotions that distort perception and lead to poor decisions? Fear and ego have a huge distortion effect, how does your training method explore these effects and prepare the student?

Just some thoughts to chew on.

MJ
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Old 06-05-2008, 08:41 AM   #40
DH
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Re: effectivness of technique

Well all of that is summed up in the old boxing refrain; "Everyone has a plan- until they've been hit."
Since my teenage years- when I would pick on martial artists to show they were full of crap- I have said much the same thing. "If you haven't fought you don't know how to fight." And even then there are skills to learn in fighting. On the whole being booted in the head, stabbed, beaten with furniture, and coming out on top of a room full of bikers will change a persons mindstate, readiness and ability to deliver. Most assuredly the way you respond to threat and where your mental state is when someone decides to screw with you. Being able to "deliver" is best judged after having been pummelled-on and you keep coming.
Also expressed in the phrase "It isn't the size of the dog in the fight-it's the size of the fight in the dog.
Anyway sorry to be contrary but I see it as a far more simple puzzle, best expressed in Chuck Yeagers terms on how best to make an ace pilot. "Experience, experience, experience."
And he didn't mean in a flight " simulator"
For some people this is BTDT. Men who have been in the real shit with their lives in their own hands. For others getting closer to all out doesn't have to be life endangering- you can up the pressure in a safe but full-on and edgier setting, were most waza falls apart, but life-endangering does have lessons all its own.
Another good bet is to at least train with someone who has. Folks may see a different outlook from them VS a more typical teacher or fellow students as to what actually works; and the where and when.
Another Old dog Budo guy once said "The best thing that could ever happen to the present Doshu is to have him dropped penniless in some backwater rough-and-tumble place that hates foreigners. If he makes it back-he'll be a different man."

As for waza? There most certanly techniques that are stupid in any real applicable way. And those will always be hotly debated from the suburban dojo guy who has never been in a fight in his life, to those who love taking people efforts apart. They? Will never agree on what "useless" really means.

Last edited by DH : 06-05-2008 at 08:44 AM.
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Old 06-05-2008, 08:41 AM   #41
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Re: effectivness of technique

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Mark Jakabcsin wrote: View Post
You still have this picture in your mind about how technique X looks when it is completed and you are attempting to make reality match that picture, after all this is your best technique. We can go on but you get the picture, I hope.
Actually, in that scenario, I'd say the person is a technique junkie and hasn't learned anything in a martial art so no matter what he/she tries, it'll fail. Technique X,Y,Z are not done for applicational usage but to instill principles in the student. If the principles are understood, it won't be a matter of applying a technique at all. It'll be a matter of applying principles.

Quote:
Mark Jakabcsin wrote: View Post
A technique is neither good nor bad, a person either understands how and WHEN to apply it or not.
Guess I disagree with both. First, I do believe there are good and bad techniques. I see quite a lot of people do a kotegaeshi where they tenkan to uke's side and in the process their arm is nearly 180 degrees out from their body.

Here's a vid from David Valadez on YouTube. Ignore the content, and watch from about 1:29-1:31 and 1:50-1:53. The arm is completely outside his center. *IF* that's a "standard" technique or way of doing things, IMO, it's a bad technique. You lose power, control, and focus on uke in that instance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9bG-GZaVmY

(Please NOTE that I am not invalidating David's way of training or any such idea. I agree with quite a bit of what David has said. And I disagree with some things. This is just one small part where we might disagree. I used this as an example because it's the one I remember specifically. I've seen examples of this in other systems/schools.)

As for when a person understands how and when to apply a technique, I disagree with that, too. Per Ueshiba, takemusu aiki is the ideal. Knowledge of aiki leads to creating infinite options spontaneously. IMO, that means one shouldn't understand when or how to apply a technique, but understand principle fully and forget technique altogether.

Mark
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Old 06-05-2008, 09:06 AM   #42
Mark Jakabcsin
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Re: effectivness of technique

Dan,
I agree with your post and do not think mine is at odds. Experience is essential and attitude even more so.

Mark,
Please try to understand my response in the context of the entire thread and specifically the question I responded too. For the record I have not trained 'technique' in many years and do not forsee ever going back to that method of training. Discussing whether a specific technique is good/bad/valid/etc. just seems silly to me. Focusing the training on the individual to make him/her more prepared in their ability to properly collect information and make proper decisioncs that accurately reflect reality makes more sense to me.

Personally I do not buy into the thought of learning technique, polishing technique, becoming extremely proficient at technique and then graduating to no technique. I estimate the number of people that can actually follow this path and reach the desired results is probably under 1%. If one wants to be free it is best to learn to be free from day one, imo.

MJ
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Old 06-05-2008, 09:18 AM   #43
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Re: effectivness of technique

To Mark Murray
What was that? I keep reading here where so many keep saying aikido is changing and more and more are becoming more practical. Yet the recent vids of knife fighting (here and by Chris H.) express such a low level of understanding-both in applicable martial waza and in structure that I wouldn't know where to begin. And having someone "follow" your hand as you turn round and round, or attacking and loping around on one foot with your structure a mess and you not attempting to recover? Do Aikidoka still commonly move all over place to move someone else? Or is this unusual? That was not a display of anything I would relate to structure, aiki, or effectiveness. I was thinking of issues entirely beyond this when discussing the term effective. I wouldn't know where to begin to discuss effective in the sense of that type of movement. I'd have allot more to say than "His arm was out 90 deg from his body in the Kotegeishi." With the type of structure displayed; would it really matter at all where THAT body was?
Sooo, much more is available in doing Aiki...do- than this stuff. I hope folks are pursuing it.
I think I am out of my element here, and I'll withdraw from the discussion. Sorry to have intruded.

Last edited by DH : 06-05-2008 at 09:33 AM.
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Old 06-05-2008, 09:33 AM   #44
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Re: effectivness of technique

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
To Mark Murray
What was that?
Just an example of where I disagree that there are no bad techniques. I think besides people not having good or bad principles, there are also techniques that are bad.

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Do Aikidoka still commonly move all over place to move someone else? Or is this unusual?
That's a good question. And I don't know.

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
That was not a display of anything I would relate to structure, aiki, or effectiveness. I was thinking of issues entirely beyond this when discussing the term effective.
I think I missed that, then.

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
I wouldn't know where to begin to discuss effective in the sense of that type of movement. I'd have allot more to say than "His arm was out 90 deg from his body in the Kotegeishi." With the type of structure displayed; would it really matter at all where THAT body was?
You might not know where to begin. But, for others, they can understand that having the hand out there like that is not a good thing. Body structure not withstanding, the technique itself has flaws. It was just an example of my belief that techniques can be flawed, bad, ineffective, etc with or without having body skills.

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
I think I am out of my element here, and I'll withdraw from the discussion. Sorry to have intruded.
Dunno. You're an element unto yourself?

Seriously, given the question, can techniques be bad, ineffective, or flawed, what would you answer? Coming from a perspective of having good structure.

Mark
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Old 06-05-2008, 09:49 AM   #45
DH
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Re: effectivness of technique

Quote:
Mark Murray wrote: View Post
Seriously, given the question, can techniques be bad, ineffective, or flawed, what would you answer? Coming from a perspective of having good structure.

Mark
Mark
What I mean was from either end of the discussion-which most certainly overlap-it would be difficult to discuss. There are so many things wrong with their martial approach that "effective" wouldn't enter into my dialogue with anyone doing that type of work. I'd just say. "Stop it." Then probably start working on realistic approaches with a knife and show where to go from there.
Structurally, it would be a whole different approach as well.
I didn't realize where you guys were approaching it from. Those are exactly the types of movements that Ron quoted me on when I say. "Full speed...in the wrong direction." I keep hoping to see some revamped and changed approaches to the art in both waza and structure. Truly, there is just so, so, much people could have, by way of power and practical use. It's sad watcing stuff like the recent videos.

Last edited by DH : 06-05-2008 at 09:51 AM.
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Old 06-05-2008, 10:02 AM   #46
rob_liberti
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Re: effectivness of technique

Hmm, what if you wanted to be effective but didn't have access to the training methodologies kept intentionally secret from most? What would your approach be?

Rob
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Old 06-05-2008, 10:13 AM   #47
DH
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Re: effectivness of technique

Quote:
Rob Liberti wrote: View Post
Hmm, what if you wanted to be effective but didn't have access to the training methodologies kept intentionally secret from most? What would your approach be?

Rob
In a word MMA. Which was what I always did while doing other things.

I have to work....later
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Old 06-05-2008, 11:43 AM   #48
MM
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Re: effectivness of technique

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Mark
What I mean was from either end of the discussion-which most certainly overlap-it would be difficult to discuss. There are so many things wrong with their martial approach that "effective" wouldn't enter into my dialogue with anyone doing that type of work. I'd just say. "Stop it." Then probably start working on realistic approaches with a knife and show where to go from there.
Structurally, it would be a whole different approach as well.
I think that ties in with my posts over on the Ellis thread. In regards to structure, I've found the best approach is to, as you said, "Stop it." It's interfering with the internal work. So, I can understand that approach. In fact, I think I'm beginning to understand another little gem that someone once told me. That a person who has structure/internals/aiki will manifest waza differently. Oh, and yeah, I'm starting to also grasp the "Full speed...in the wrong direction" saying.

My current theory:

I had originally thought that I could work both internal training and aikido at the same time. Aikido after all, as Peter Goldsbury noted, was from Ueshiba who had "the goods" and the training (to him and from him in the early days) included the goods. But, today's aikido is a far cry from Ueshiba's early days.

When the body structure/internals/aiki isn't there or being trained, then the techniques are actually done in a different manner. Something fundamental is missing, so, naturally, there's a void that must be replaced. Nage moving around uke is one aspect that filled the void. There are others -- adding timing for example.

So, what we work on in "normal" aikido for techniques utilizes some different (at times, very different) body skills. Without the aiki that Ueshiba (Shioda, Tomiki, Tohei, etc) had, one must learn different skills to compensate for the missing structure.

What I hadn't fully realized was the disparate body skills. Adding structure/aiki can vastly change techniques and waza. It doesn't alter aikido as a whole, but it definitely alters the manner in which a person accomplishes, or lives, aikido. Kotegaeshi is still kotegaeshi, etc. However, the approach one takes to waza becomes an either-or choice. It is either structure/aiki kotegaeshi or it is non-structure/non-aiki kotegaeshi. There doesn't seem to be an "and" approach. One or the other.

Erg .. gotta run. Will post this now, though it isn't complete.

Mark
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Old 06-05-2008, 12:16 PM   #49
rob_liberti
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Re: effectivness of technique

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
In a word MMA. Which was what I always did while doing other things.
Okay fair answer to a poorly expressed question. I _meant_ a different question:

Assuming you are fundimentally convinced that Osensei's and Takeda sensei's martial arts were martially effective against other martial arts - that they were then and they must still be now. And you want that but don't have a very direct way of approaching those skills yourself. What do you do?

Some, have tried to up the progressive resistance looking for inspiration. I believe that is what David's video represents and also what I have seen from Chris H. I respect the attempts.

Some look at the approach and recognize that getting there without different help is unrealistic so they decide it is pointless and give up on that aspect. I can understand such an attitude but I'm just not wired that way.

I'm sure that there are other flavors too. I just dislike the transcend devoid of transform approach. I think it is delusional at best and snake oil at worst.

Rob
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Old 06-05-2008, 12:41 PM   #50
Aikibu
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Re: effectivness of technique

Gee where I have read this stuff before...

It's easy to parse those with experiance from those who don't so let me make this simple...

Effectiveness is relative in the sense of how and when a person has to use it. I have been successful using executing Waza with bad techniques and had my ass handed to me in my technical prime.

I don't personally knock any Aikido practice anymore but if you have to bunny hop all over the place while your practicing your "form" you have to ask yourself are you really doing Aikido?

The Doshu Analogy is silly at best...I have a Judo Friend from Brooklyn who declared Islam and went on The Haj to Mecca. He has the USMC Icon tatted on his right arm. Not one fight...

So?

Again it's the man/woman....I have seen muscle bound studs cry like babies, and skinny bespeckled wearing geeks sucking it up and driving on...

Im my experiance the purpose of Martial Training is to discover the Martial Spirit in ones self. This Martial Spirit allows you to tap into "Martial" Power and builds charactor, courage, and fortitude in the person...

The extent of ones Martial Spirit is determined by only ONE FACTOR and in this sense folks would do will to emulate the Sig Line Dan Hardin uses from his Sensei....

Practice....

If you go to the Dojo twice a week then your Martial Spirit develops accordingly and vice versa if you devote yourself to Martial Practice then you will also grow accordingly...Hence for every Dan Hardin there are a Hundred Thousand Aiki-Bunnies including at certain times in my life... me. I have been givin the secret to Martial Power many times from several Shihan...It means nothing unless I continue to practice and nuture it on my own outside of the Dojo.

Make no mistake Practice is not just the learning of a Technical Syllabus.Practice is a Mind Body Spirit Connection that can be fostered anytime anywhere. Practice is as we say... Living Aikido or whatever Martial Art.... not just showing up and throwing people around for an hour or two...However that being said both paths lead up the same mountain... Aiki Bunny or Martial Artist. I just wish to get there this life time or the next... if only to share and enjoy the view.

"Sincere Heart through Austere Training" Shoji Nishio Shihan

William Hazen

Last edited by Aikibu : 06-05-2008 at 12:46 PM.
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