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Old 05-13-2006, 09:04 PM   #26
raul rodrigo
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Re: Tracing my Philippine Aikikai Roots

My opinion about whether Camar sensei has 8th dan level skill would have no meaning. None. It is not for me to decide. It is not for Mr. Camar or Mr. Galarpe to decide. Its not a matter of opinion. 8th dan is a rank conferred by a proper certifying body--which in the case of a dojo that claims to be Aikikai, that proper certifying body is Hombu Dojo. Aikikai affiliation is not a matter of belief.
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Old 05-14-2006, 11:35 AM   #27
raul rodrigo
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Re: Tracing my Philippine Aikikai Roots

Thanks for your input, Arnold. I would prefer to steer clear of words like "despicable," though, since it tends to make people react very strongly. But on the whole, I think you and I have been on the same track: I've been asking questions and offering some facts in the hope of getting Ritchie (and any of his dojo mates who might also have been following this discussion) to accept a broader view of the aikido world than they have been accustomed to. What they do with the information is up to them. But at the very least we should all be proceeding from the same base of facts, instead of using opinions to try to wave inconvenient facts away.
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Old 05-20-2006, 06:03 AM   #28
Ritchie Martinez
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Re: Tracing my Philippine Aikikai Roots

Hi Raul,

Yes, you are right, Camar Sensei or Manila Aikido is not Aikikai affiliated anymore, but when I said that you decide if Camar Sensei could be classified as 8th Dan, that was on a personal note. You are also right that only an organization can rank someone (still have to ask Camar Sensei who awarded him his 8th Dan, then I'll tell you). Also, what I said was the club and style is Aikikai, we can not deny that fact, and it is not just my opinion because it is Aikikai (the style) and once was Aikikai (affiliation). As you've said, affiliations lapse, but do style lapse as well? And strong reactions only come from those who think otherwise when I accidentally used the word Aikikai (affiliation) in one of my posts, that's what I know during that time, but now, I know the whole story of what really happened to our club. And maybe you see me or our Club as confined only to what we know and learn in our small dojo in Quiapo, to tell you honestly, we do have a wide view of Aikido as a whole. We don't look at it simply as a group, or a club, or an organization. We see it as a way of life, as it should be. That is what we learned from the old man. All of us do practice the same thing, Aikido. It may be Aikikai, Yoshinkan, Tomiki, Ki Society or any other Aikido groups out there but the essence is the same, we are all trying to achive one common goal, harmony.

Until next time!
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Old 12-07-2006, 04:51 PM   #29
PVM75
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Re: Tracing my Philippine Aikikai Roots

Ey Arnold,

This is Patrick. Do you still remember me? You were my uke when I got promoted and we used to practice together in Sensei Jun's dojo in Ever Gotesco.

Cheers!
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Old 01-25-2007, 03:37 AM   #30
Ritchie Martinez
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Re: Tracing my Philippine Aikikai Roots

Hi Patrick,

Replied to your email, hope that Arnold would be able to see your post.

Rei!
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Old 02-19-2007, 06:52 PM   #31
carlo pagal
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Re: Tracing my Philippine Aikikai Roots

greetings from the iloilo aikido club!

if you have time, pls. visit www.aikiloilo.bravehost.com. a site that we made for SENSEI FRANCISCO VALENCIA. I'm sure that a lot of filipino aikidokas are not familiar with him. He happens to be the first filipino aikido blackbelt. he studied aikido in the early 50's and was promoted to blackbelt in 1965. i'm sure sensei Galarpe and other old aikido practicioners know him. we would like to share with you, pics of him and some of his students in guam in the 60's. pls visit our website.
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Old 02-21-2007, 11:35 PM   #32
Aikibu
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Re: Tracing my Philippine Aikikai Roots

Quote:
Reyne Caritativo wrote: View Post
batobalani sensei was a direct student of the late shoji nishio shihan,the founder of nishio aikido.batobalani seinsei was based in the u.s. and at present he has a dojo in pangasinan here in the philippines, teaching nishio-style aikido and iaido. i was able to attend one of batobalani aka jun mateo sensei's seminars in pangasinan last 2004
With all due respect Jun Mateo aka Batobalani Sensei was never a direct student of Shoji Nishio Shihan. He was a direct student of Masa Tazaki Sensei who was himself a direct student of Shoji Nishio until Tazaki Sensei broke away (with Nishio Shihan's blessings) to form his own organization. I have lived and studied Shoji Nishio's Aikido for over 17 years here in Southern California and we have a few of Mateo's Sensei's old students at our dojo. I have been familiar with Jun Mateo since that time.

For him to claim that he is a "direct" student of Shoji Nishio Shihan is a misrepresentation and disrespectful.

William Hazen
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Old 02-25-2007, 02:03 AM   #33
Ritchie Martinez
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Re: Tracing my Philippine Aikikai Roots

Hi Carlo,

I've seen your website, it's a good tribute and I'm sure a good teacher deserves one. But sad to say, many of the old timers in Aikido are not much known these days, for reasons that we might not find out. It is one of my wishes that someday, all Aikido practitioners in the Philippines would gather under one roof and practice together, regardless of affiliation (it is a big issue to others and I know that you know what I mean).

Cheers.

Ritchie
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Old 02-25-2007, 07:26 AM   #34
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Re: Tracing my Philippine Aikikai Roots

Quote:
Ritchie Martinez wrote: View Post
Hi Carlo,

. It is one of my wishes that someday, all Aikido practitioners in the Philippines would gather under one roof and practice together, regardless of affiliation
+1
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Old 05-08-2008, 05:56 PM   #35
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Re: Tracing my Philippine Aikikai Roots

I used to practice in the Quiapo gym of Sensei Camar. It is my regret however that I could not practice regularly because my job requires frequent business trips. I would like to make two comments:

1. It is true that there exists in the shomen a certificate from hombu dojo a recognition of the club issued sometime 196x.It bears the seal of the originator himself. I think this is one rare document and should be kept as a proof of Aikido entering the Philippines way back in the 60s.

2. Rommel: I have heard that some yudanshas of Sensei Camar hold Aikikai yudansha cards from hombo dojo. I think this is the same card you are accusing Ritchie and some yudansha members of the club of not having. They are just simply not flaunting it. One of them is in regular communication with Sensei Camar himself. I heard he came back a year ago from abroad. According to rumor he is 4th dan - the highest in the group. Not sure about this. Perhaps Ritchie knows him.

Quote:
Rommel Miel wrote: View Post
HI Richie,

I am very sure that Omar Camar is not connected with Aikikai Hombu Dojo. ........ Lastly, how come that you or his students don't have any Aikikai Yudansha Card - this is proof that you are registered and affiliated with the Aikikai Hombu Dojo.
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Old 05-13-2008, 10:18 AM   #36
attydotcom
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Re: Tracing my Philippine Aikikai Roots

I have seen Omar Camar's aikido, and i am sorry to say that he is not in the same category as Shihans Tamura, Endo, Fujita, Yamada, etc. (not of course to demean his technique or anything, which is in my opinion not bad)... Look at the shoulders, and you'll know what i mean..

Hi Raul, hi Rommel, hello Ritchie.. PEACE! See you on the mat soon..
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Old 05-24-2008, 08:55 AM   #37
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Re: Tracing my Philippine Aikikai Roots

You are simply contradicting your own statements and making it sound that you are not. Come on...

I have been reading the past posts and there is just one thing I notice: Just what have you guys got against Omar Camar? What has he done to you and your "affiliated" organizations? His group is just there sitting quietly and you guys (Rommel) are putting words in his mouth.

And just why are you picking on his yudanshas and accusing them of not having any yudansha cards? Whether they have it or not is none of your business.

Look, the dojo of Camar has existed for about 4 decades already. If his AIkido or his technicques or his curriculum is not at par with your so-called high standards because you guya are "affilliated" now explain why his students don't leave him and defect to your associations. Why? Answer that.

And also, why you guys don;t have any respect at all to the pioneers of Aikido in the Philippines like the one who headed the dojo in Iloilo?

You guys claim to be practitioners of the Art but at the same time you are all very un-Aiki.

Now I understand why a lot of Camar students, and Camar himself don't want to have anything to do with you.

Quote:
Graeme June Elmido wrote: View Post
I have seen Omar Camar's aikido, and i am sorry to say that he is not in the same category as Shihans Tamura, Endo, Fujita, Yamada, etc. (not of course to demean his technique or anything, which is in my opinion not bad)... Look at the shoulders, and you'll know what i mean..

Hi Raul, hi Rommel, hello Ritchie.. PEACE! See you on the mat soon..
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Old 05-24-2008, 10:34 AM   #38
raul rodrigo
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Re: Tracing my Philippine Aikikai Roots

Juaniyo:

If you read my posts, you will find that I have taken pains not to disparage Camar sensei. We are simply raising questions about certain factual claims made by the Philippine Aikikai Federation (formerly Manila Aikido)-- for instance, claims about being 8th dan, about being still connected to Hombu Dojo. Raising questions about facts is not the same as issuing an insult, or being "un-aiki." If a person makes a claim in a public forum, he should be prepared to back it up, and in fact Ritchie has conceded that Camar's group no longer has any connection to Hombu Dojo. Read post #28.

I have said nothing about someone's technique being superior or inferior. If respect is what you are looking for, then, yes, certainly Camar and Valencia and Talag and the other Filipino aikido pioneers certainly deserve our respect.

best,

RAUL

Last edited by raul rodrigo : 05-24-2008 at 10:38 AM.
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Old 05-24-2008, 07:47 PM   #39
Enrique Antonio Reyes
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Lightbulb Re: Tracing my Philippine Aikikai Roots

Hi Guys, Iking here and I used to train with Camar Sensei at the Manila Aikido Club (the name at that time was already Philippine Aikikai). I have read some of the thread and felt the itch to join in.

1. Well there is a certificate in the quiapo gym signed by O Sensei however it is definitely outdated.

2. Midway towards Yudansha I had the feeling already that the gym was not in touch with Headquarters (there were japanese visitors sometimes tho...). At that time the takemusu dojo (and another one in quezon cty - PAPA?) was being set-up and we actually checked out the gym/s but the fees were not quite in line with our (student) budget.

3. I believe that Camar Sensei is not affiliated with Aikikai anymore (the gym is just named after it). It is just weird since history states that when Galarpe Sensei left he gave the leadership of the Aikikai to Sensei Omar and joined Tohei in another organization. However, names during promotions then were being sent to Guam (???).

My guess is (just a guess) that Sensei Omar maintained relationships with Sensei Galarpe only and not with Japanese headquarters. When he was promoted to 5th Dan I heard that it was Sensei Garlarpe who promoted him so I guess If he is 8th Dan it would be more likely with Tohei's organization or just directly from Sensei Galarpe. Either that or he just promoted himself (which I doubt since he is still very much an honorable person).

4. I believe that Dan grades are not only given for skill but also for your contribution to the advancement of the art so I guess whoever promoted sensei omar to 8th dan considered that he is indeed one of the pioneers of Aikido in the Philippines.

5. Other blackbelts from recognized organizations have the right to be sensitive about affiliation.

6. Organizations that are independent have a right to be proud of their lineage 0 Sensei - Tohei - Galarpe - Camar/Talag/Gavileno --- (just an example)

7. What matters in the end is that we actually practice what we practice.. Aikido is definitely much more than just a martial art...it is a way of life. I have doubted its effectiveness before but now I have come to understand the higher call of O Sensei...kinda like the role of corporate social responsibility to business.

Have a good day everyone!

Iking
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Old 05-25-2008, 12:58 AM   #40
budokid
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Re: Tracing my Philippine Aikikai Roots

Dear Mr. Enrique,

So you were a practitioner after all from Sensei Omar's Dojo in Quiapo. If you are still active, try to find out if the the rumors circulating around ar true or not that some Sensei's students do have those yudansha certifications. If true, find out who they are and find out why they don't associate themselves from the "affiliated" dojos but remain loyal to their home dojo. I think one of the is Sensei Ace (Doc Ace).

Thanks,
John

Quote:
Enrique Antonio Reyes wrote: View Post
Hi Guys, Iking here and I used to train with Camar Sensei at the Manila Aikido Club (the name at that time was already Philippine Aikikai). I have read some of the thread and felt the itch to join in.

1. Well there is a certificate in the quiapo gym signed by O Sensei however it is definitely outdated.

2. Midway towards Yudansha I had the feeling already that the gym was not in touch with Headquarters (there were japanese visitors sometimes tho...). At that time the takemusu dojo (and another one in quezon cty - PAPA?) was being set-up and we actually checked out the gym/s but the fees were not quite in line with our (student) budget.

3. I believe that Camar Sensei is not affiliated with Aikikai anymore (the gym is just named after it). It is just weird since history states that when Galarpe Sensei left he gave the leadership of the Aikikai to Sensei Omar and joined Tohei in another organization. However, names during promotions then were being sent to Guam (???).

My guess is (just a guess) that Sensei Omar maintained relationships with Sensei Galarpe only and not with Japanese headquarters. When he was promoted to 5th Dan I heard that it was Sensei Garlarpe who promoted him so I guess If he is 8th Dan it would be more likely with Tohei's organization or just directly from Sensei Galarpe. Either that or he just promoted himself (which I doubt since he is still very much an honorable person).

4. I believe that Dan grades are not only given for skill but also for your contribution to the advancement of the art so I guess whoever promoted sensei omar to 8th dan considered that he is indeed one of the pioneers of Aikido in the Philippines.

5. Other blackbelts from recognized organizations have the right to be sensitive about affiliation.

6. Organizations that are independent have a right to be proud of their lineage 0 Sensei - Tohei - Galarpe - Camar/Talag/Gavileno --- (just an example)

7. What matters in the end is that we actually practice what we practice.. Aikido is definitely much more than just a martial art...it is a way of life. I have doubted its effectiveness before but now I have come to understand the higher call of O Sensei...kinda like the role of corporate social responsibility to business.

Have a good day everyone!

Iking
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Old 05-25-2008, 01:13 AM   #41
budokid
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Re: Tracing my Philippine Aikikai Roots

Mr. Raul,

So what if Sensei Camar's group is not affiliated? So what if his yudanshas don't have your so-called "yudansha ceriticates from Japan"? Does that make them less of an Aikido Practitioner(s) compared to you "affiliated" guys?

You know what, I doubt if you "affiliated" guys can keep up with how even their colored belts play - how much more for their browns and yudanshas. You should see how they play before you pass judgement.

How about going directly to Sensei Camar himself and asking how he got his "8th Dan"? Or better, tell your leadership to go directly to him and ask and scold him for those "claims". Get a statement. That should clarify things up.

John

Quote:
Raul Rodrigo wrote: View Post
Juaniyo:

If you read my posts, you will find that I have taken pains not to disparage Camar sensei. We are simply raising questions about certain factual claims made by the Philippine Aikikai Federation (formerly Manila Aikido)-- for instance, claims about being 8th dan, about being still connected to Hombu Dojo. Raising questions about facts is not the same as issuing an insult, or being "un-aiki." If a person makes a claim in a public forum, he should be prepared to back it up, and in fact Ritchie has conceded that Camar's group no longer has any connection to Hombu Dojo. Read post #28.

I have said nothing about someone's technique being superior or inferior. If respect is what you are looking for, then, yes, certainly Camar and Valencia and Talag and the other Filipino aikido pioneers certainly deserve our respect.

best,

RAUL
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Old 05-25-2008, 01:20 AM   #42
budokid
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Re: Tracing my Philippine Aikikai Roots

Arnold:

Read the posts coming from the practitioners of the "Affiliated" organizations. I can now see why Sensei Camar is preventing you from being in contact with them lest you get "corrupted".

And your previous story is right - Macapawa borrowing yudansha from Quiapo in order to promote her Affiliated Dojo. And now, this is what Manila Aikido Club gets in return after the dojo got its introduction to the public.

John

Quote:
Arnold Mina wrote: View Post
......

Ritchie, I was a yudansha from Manila Aikido Club. I practiced with Senseis Alex, Ahmed, Sonny and others in the early 90's to 2001. I don't intend to demean my former dojo but I am merely trying to open your mind. During our time, inasmuch as we desire to participate with visiting shihans or senseis from other countries, we were scared to do so because the old man will surely kick us out of the dojo if we did in fact participate. That was my main concern. Learning aikido shouldn't be confined to the four corners of the dojo. There's a lot to learn from seminars and aikido expos. Think about it.
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Old 05-25-2008, 06:35 AM   #43
raul rodrigo
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Re: Tracing my Philippine Aikikai Roots

Quote:
Juaniyo Ibanez wrote: View Post
Mr. Raul,

So what if Sensei Camar's group is not affiliated? So what if his yudanshas don't have your so-called "yudansha ceriticates from Japan"? Does that make them less of an Aikido Practitioner(s) compared to you "affiliated" guys?

John
Did I say who was better or worse? Did I compare technique? Did I badmouth anyone? Of course not. I didn't say the students of Camar were any less qualified or skilled than someone who does have a yudansha passport from Aikikai Hombu. It is you who are insisting that I am casting aspersions. I am not. Simple possession of an Aikikai yudansha passport is no indicator of superior technical skill, and I have never implied that it is.

Let's stick with ascertaining facts. Ritchie Martinez and Iking and Arnold, all students of Camar, are all conceding that certain statements that have been made about the status of Camar's dojo with regard to Aikikai Hombu Dojo are in fact untrue. All concede the fact that the dojo is not affiliated. (And if the dojo is not affiliated with Aikikai, then it is therefore impossible for its students to have Aikikai yudansha cards.) Arnold and Ritchie are willing to let it go at that. And so am I. It is you who is raking it up again.

Best,

R

Last edited by raul rodrigo : 05-25-2008 at 06:46 AM.
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Old 05-25-2008, 06:51 AM   #44
raul rodrigo
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Re: Tracing my Philippine Aikikai Roots

One other undisputable fact is that there is only one non-Japanese 8th dan in the entire history of the Aikikai: Andre Nocquet of France, who studied under O'sensei in the 1950s and died in 1999. You could look it up.
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Old 05-25-2008, 07:12 AM   #45
Peter Goldsbury
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Re: Tracing my Philippine Aikikai Roots

Quote:
Raul Rodrigo wrote: View Post
One other undisputable fact is that there is only one non-Japanese 8th dan in the entire history of the Aikikai: Andre Nocquet of France, who studied under O'sensei in the 1950s and died in 1999. You could look it up.
Raul,

I have no wish to become involved in the politics of aikido in the Philippines, but I think that Mr Nocquet's 8th dan was given by the French government and not by the Aikikai. I believe I am correct in thinking that no non-Japanese has ever received an 8th dan from the Aikikai.

Best wishes,

P A Goldsbury
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Old 05-25-2008, 07:19 AM   #46
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Re: Tracing my Philippine Aikikai Roots

I stand corrected. Thank you for pointing that out. I understand that you wouldn't want to get involved in this.

best,

R
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Old 05-25-2008, 09:07 AM   #47
Enrique Antonio Reyes
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Lightbulb Re: Tracing my Philippine Aikikai Roots

Wow! Things are heating up here. I do hope that this would be similar to a strategy session where we are all putting pressure on each other to come up with a brilliant and shining business strategy...

Mr. budokid, I'm not active anymore but will do try to find out. I trained with sensei ace (dok) and I think he has a yudansha card (will clarify if its aikikai...I believe it was given sometime 1992 or 93) ... hmmnnn, now I regret not sticking around a little bit (should have ensured I got mine). The camar boys including myself take pride in the rigidity of our training. The dojo is filled with stories...there was a time where our first female blackbelt's necklace was snatched...and she chased down the guy and caught him with a kokyu nage, there was a guy who was molested in the theater (by a gay person I assume) and he put the guy in sankkyo and threw him over the seats...there were sad ones too like when sensei lucky was gunned down...the people take pride in their lineage and their history.

Yep, I also heard about arnold's comments. I personally saw the dismay of camar sensei when he got wind of it. For some reason (at that particular time where a lot of the other affiliated dojos were just starting) aikikai boys just felt that there were superiority in terms of technique and training. In some ways I agree (especially with randori) however, the takemusu dojo has excellent training on the bokken and the jo (I believed that at that time they were better when it comes to aiki weapons)

Hi Raul,

I appreciate the breadth of knowledge you contribute to this forum. I do hope you do understand that aikikai guys are already bothered by the "perceived" arrogance of the affiliated organizations. I do apologize for any adversity that you may have felt but I do believe that you are only after the clarification of facts. However not all "affiliated" guys are like yourself and others only usher in the subject to brag about their genuine connection with hombu.

Sensei Camar is a remarkable leader and has earned all our respect. I do hope you understand why a lot of us are emotional about this.

But you know what? Hopefully one of these days I will run into him and I will ask him personally where he got his 8th dan. (although its quite a long shot since I rarely go there)

Have a nice day to everyone!

Iking
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Old 05-25-2008, 09:28 AM   #48
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Re: Tracing my Philippine Aikikai Roots

Iking:

Thank you for your response, and thanks for being willing to concede that I am only looking for the facts, without any intent to demean anyone. I understand that the Manila Aikido students are proud of their dojo and proud of their teacher and I respect that. I also understand why some of you may be wary of some of those from the affiliated groups. In and of itself, the yudansha passport doesn't really mean all that much. I've met a few Aikikai yudansha whose technique, to put it politely, could stand some improvement. As my teachers always said, its not in the belt or the certificate; we prove ourselves only on the mat.

best,

R
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Old 05-25-2008, 05:58 PM   #49
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Re: Tracing my Philippine Aikikai Roots

Dear Raul,

Thank you very much Raul. I hope that other passport holders will also realize that what they are holding are not status symbols but a formal record and documentation of their training from the point of view of the Japan HQ.

In the same way, for those who are not passport holders, what is important is the authenticity of your skill which has been handed down without corruption from what was originally taught in the 60s.

Best regards,
John

Quote:
Raul Rodrigo wrote: View Post
Iking:

Thank you for your response, and thanks for being willing to concede that I am only looking for the facts, without any intent to demean anyone. I understand that the Manila Aikido students are proud of their dojo and proud of their teacher and I respect that. I also understand why some of you may be wary of some of those from the affiliated groups. In and of itself, the yudansha passport doesn't really mean all that much. I've met a few Aikikai yudansha whose technique, to put it politely, could stand some improvement. As my teachers always said, its not in the belt or the certificate; we prove ourselves only on the mat.

best,

R
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Old 05-26-2008, 04:55 AM   #50
Raul Roldan
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Re: Tracing my Philippine Aikikai Roots

Forums like these are really a great way to exchange ideas, information, facts. Especially in this case, as the intent, it seems to me is to sort of evolve an accurate picture of Aikido history in the Philippines. As diversity is typical in this world, I can glean that a microcosm of that is also reflected in the evolution of aikido in the Philippines. It is not altogether unusual that there would be contractions and expansions; divisions and coming together. People have personalities and with that, perceptions, opinions and even, how we feel about ourselves; yes, differences abound.

Obviously, some have emotional investments with certain groups. This is not unusual either. Certain things drive us and we feel good about certain affiliations.

Why I premise my thoughts with the above is to convey that you are all actually in an open forum and totally exposed to the rest of the world. If you are mindful of that, you'd be more mindful in your choices of words. It's like what they say about emails you want to send in the heat of the moment. Try to read it first and send it to yourself and see how you feel. It also allows you to be more specific and precise with your language.

Aikido is quite evolutionary; I think all learning are. I cannot be sure if I am right in this but I think that the Japanese mode of learning Shu-Ha-Ri sort of reflects that. At Shu stage, you follow the form given you. I sometimes just call this the mechanics of techniques. Following that is the Ha stage where you learn to internalise what you learned. The Ri stage allows you the experimentation or the adaptation of what you learnt to what best suit your temperament, body structure, and what other factors that is you. So, really in that sense, there is no such thing as corruption of aikido. Every time a new person takes up aikido it is likely that he will develop his own aikido over time. Affiliations, teachers, fellow practitioners, strangers can provide you with experience of their aikido; you can glean from them what fits yours and you take it from there. But to say, aikido has pure form is not really quite correct. So, I guess what I am saying here is there's really no point I arguing about matters of affiliations, certificates or what-not. Since someone started this, just provide the facts and hopefully, even how fractious it is, it can at least give us the picture of how aikido in the Philippines evolved and we can honour everyone who played a part in it.
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