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Old 05-06-2008, 11:50 AM   #51
DonMagee
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Re: What is "combat"?

Great read. I'd like to see something like that only targeted on domestic violence.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 05-06-2008, 01:40 PM   #52
KIT
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Re: What is "combat"?

Quote:
Don Magee wrote: View Post
Great read. I'd like to see something like that only targeted on domestic violence.
Not quite sure what you mean, Don - officers in responding to domestics, or the dynamics of DV altercations?

We've discussed here before (somewhere...) that the rough numbers for "civilian" encounters, based just on a snapshot in my experience but no real data, are probably not so high for fights going to ground, but still significant enough to be a major concern in terms of self defense simply because the danger increases exponentially once you go down in an uncontrolled environment.

DV is probably the same, though due to where such encounters occur and size/strength disparities women in DV frequently report being pushed/thrown down onto the floor, onto couches, beds, seats in cars, etc.

All of these are more "ground fighting" problems than they are standing problems.But I don't know of anyone who has done a formal study documenting where civilian encounters occurred, particularly not DV encounters.

When it becomes "combat" is obviously also another discussion. We have to remember too that definition and what you do may change radically based on the environment.

Military battlefield? Military "operations other than war?" Single operator/soldier/officer or team environment? Side of the road traffic stop gone bad? High risk entry with team? Routine pat down that suddenly turns into lethal assault? Foot chase followed by hand to hand fight? And so on...

There are s**t-hot SWAT cops/military operators, military and LE combat vets, who "rule" in a guns up, team centered, tactical environment but are fish out of water when dealing alone with a single, motivated bad guy who manages to close with them, let alone take them down and get on top.

One of the things I have tried to impress on our tactical guys was not to be so wedded to solving all their problems at the point of gun - because tactics can fail, bullets don't always hit, and don't always stop a guy when they do, and you may not be in position to use the gun to solve it to begin with.

Little consolation in being some "elite" shooter/tactical operator if you can't fight your way out of a paper bag hand-to-hand. A fellow trainer and former SWAT guy recently said something to me that made a lot of sense: working in a team environment often covers up for lack of individual skills.

All over the place, I know, but the thread is about defining something that is hard to really define. Maybe its like "obscenity." We know its "combat" when we are in it!!

Last edited by KIT : 05-06-2008 at 01:42 PM.
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Old 05-06-2008, 02:22 PM   #53
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Re: What is "combat"?

Quote:
Kit Leblanc wrote: View Post
Not quite sure what you mean, Don - officers in responding to domestics, or the dynamics of DV altercations?

We've discussed here before (somewhere...) that the rough numbers for "civilian" encounters, based just on a snapshot in my experience but no real data, are probably not so high for fights going to ground, but still significant enough to be a major concern in terms of self defense simply because the danger increases exponentially once you go down in an uncontrolled environment.

DV is probably the same, though due to where such encounters occur and size/strength disparities women in DV frequently report being pushed/thrown down onto the floor, onto couches, beds, seats in cars, etc.

All of these are more "ground fighting" problems than they are standing problems.But I don't know of anyone who has done a formal study documenting where civilian encounters occurred, particularly not DV encounters.

When it becomes "combat" is obviously also another discussion. We have to remember too that definition and what you do may change radically based on the environment.

Military battlefield? Military "operations other than war?" Single operator/soldier/officer or team environment? Side of the road traffic stop gone bad? High risk entry with team? Routine pat down that suddenly turns into lethal assault? Foot chase followed by hand to hand fight? And so on...

There are s**t-hot SWAT cops/military operators, military and LE combat vets, who "rule" in a guns up, team centered, tactical environment but are fish out of water when dealing alone with a single, motivated bad guy who manages to close with them, let alone take them down and get on top.

One of the things I have tried to impress on our tactical guys was not to be so wedded to solving all their problems at the point of gun - because tactics can fail, bullets don't always hit, and don't always stop a guy when they do, and you may not be in position to use the gun to solve it to begin with.

Little consolation in being some "elite" shooter/tactical operator if you can't fight your way out of a paper bag hand-to-hand. A fellow trainer and former SWAT guy recently said something to me that made a lot of sense: working in a team environment often covers up for lack of individual skills.

All over the place, I know, but the thread is about defining something that is hard to really define. Maybe its like "obscenity." We know its "combat" when we are in it!!
I'd just like to see a report that breaks down physical violence used in domestic violence cases. Like the number of men who attack women vs women who attack men, the kind of attacks most used (striking, restraint, weapons, verbal, etc). Just from a intellectual standpoint.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 05-06-2008, 02:43 PM   #54
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Re: What is "combat"?

Ah, got it. That would be a huge undertaking.
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Old 05-06-2008, 03:22 PM   #55
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Re: What is "combat"?

Thanks for the info Kit. I remember reading this before.

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Old 05-07-2008, 12:13 AM   #56
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Re: What is "combat"?

I hereby nominate Kit LeBlanc as the new Secretary of Defense for his well reasoned reality based assesments of both the Martial Arts and Self Defense...

His Picture is next to Common Sense in the Dictionary.

Anyone want to second the nomination?

William Hazen
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Old 05-07-2008, 08:12 AM   #57
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Re: What is "combat"?

LOFL!

Thankfully I wasn't drinking my morning coffee when I read that or my keyboard would be toast.

Thanks for the endorsement.
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Old 05-07-2008, 03:05 PM   #58
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Re: What is "combat"?

Quote:
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an example of ethics:

I am a vegetarian because I believe it wrong to uneccessarily take life when it is not required. I value all life equally, and think killing is wrong.

That is my ethics and values.
Not true, Kevin. According to a recently released Swiss report, you may be something of a murderer.... because you certainly don't "value all life equally".

http://www.ekah.admin.ch/uploads/med...lanze-2008.pdf

Mike
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Old 05-07-2008, 04:40 PM   #59
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Re: What is "combat"?

Quote:
Kit Leblanc wrote: View Post

There are s**t-hot SWAT cops/military operators, military and LE combat vets, who "rule" in a guns up, team centered, tactical environment but are fish out of water when dealing alone with a single, motivated bad guy who manages to close with them, let alone take them down and get on top.

One of the things I have tried to impress on our tactical guys was not to be so wedded to solving all their problems at the point of gun - because tactics can fail, bullets don't always hit, and don't always stop a guy when they do, and you may not be in position to use the gun to solve it to begin with.

Little consolation in being some "elite" shooter/tactical operator if you can't fight your way out of a paper bag hand-to-hand. A fellow trainer and former SWAT guy recently said something to me that made a lot of sense: working in a team environment often covers up for lack of individual skills.
I think that "combat" is relative easy to define... It's combat when you cross the line at which the threat is "deadly". When you perceive the threat represents a reasonable risk to you (or someone else) of serious and lasting bodily harm, then you are at the Deadly Force" level of confrontation. At that point it is combat.

Law Enforcement is difficult because they are expected to deal with an entire range of force and do so routinely. The percentage of their encounters in which the subject(s) fail to comply and physical force is required is about 1%. The number which end up in a full out level II confrontation in which impact techniques are required is even smaller by quite a bit. The number of those which end up in a situation which crosses the line into all out "combat" is very small. But when it does, due to the lack of good training for our officers, the risk to the officer is VERY high. Most training officers are given is geared towards restraint. What deadly force training they get typically revolves around the use of the firearm. Very few get what I would call Level III empty hand training which would contain deadly force empty hand techniques. Officers die regularly due to this situation.

With the military or high risk law enforcement personnel, it's even more difficult, in my opinion. The role of the military in recent times has changed. They are frequently in situations in which their roles move between combat and peace keeping, between combat and policing. One of the things that the military has had to do is introduce low level force training into what had traditionally been simply combat training.

Then when you look at counter insurgency missions in countries like Viet Nam or Iraq, you get such an untenable situation that for the average guy out there under fire from folks he was told he was there to help, it becomes very hard not to fall back into the "kill them all, let God sort them out" mindset. When you can't tell the difference between your friends and the enemy, or they can change at any moment, it's quite clear that the "perceived threat" that justifies deadly force in civilian law enforcement is there pretty much 24/7 for those folks. So the continuum of force gets really simplified... Verbal then, if no compliance, then deadly force. For these guys, hand to hand skills represent the very last mine of defense. Hand to hand only takes place when firearms have failed.

It's interesting that, we tend to give the wrong people, the wrong training. So-called "high risk" teams are apt to get by far the most training. That's logical. But that training might include things like DT. My partners and I developed a DT for SWAT and High Risk Entry Teams block of instruction. Several of the area departments did the training and incorporated the block into their regular training.

But in actuality, when was the last time you heard of an officer having his weapon taken away and getting shot with it on an entry team? How often do the members of an entry team get in a knock down drag out fight in which an officer is seriously injured or killed?
It doesn't happen very often and if it does, the fact that there is a team doing the entry, that the whole thing was known to be high risk from the get go, tends to make the whole thing less likely to result in serious injury or death for the team members.

Most of the officer involved fatalities have taken place on the street in the type of encounter which happens every single night for a patrol officer. Six to eight feet away in low light conditions. The subject goes for a weapon and bang, an officer or a subject (or both) is shot. In any number of these encounters, if the officers had had good Level III or deadly force empty hand skills, it would have been more effective to have delivered physical technique before trying to access the sidearm. At that distance, if the subject has initiated and the officer is surprised, the officer will not reliably access his weapon before the subject does. The higher percentage move would be to deliver some serious impact technique and then access ones weapon. But officers are not typically given this type of training so they get involved in a wild west shot out type scenario, hoping they are the fastest.

The ground fighting issue is an interesting one. I don't know if there has been any study which has shown the percentage of officer losing his gun to a subject between the ground and standing. Of hand I would suspect that the majority would be on the ground. Anyway, what we do know is that 95% of the time, if an officer loses his firearm to a subject, he is shot with it. So automatically, if a subject goes for an officer's gun, it's deadly force or combat, if you will. If a statistical connection could be made between the likelihood that, if he goes to the ground, an officer will lose his weapon or sustain a serious and lasting injury, then going to the ground with a violent subject could be assumed to be a deadly force situation.

There is a clear need for training of the type which Kit has worked on developing which focuses on close quarters empty hand as an extension of weapons retention and this should include ground work with deadly force techniques. Ground fighting practice should always be done with a holstered practice weapon so that grappling is always considered as an aspect of weapons retention. Typical mixed martial arts moves do not do this.

I am sure Kit knows the guys from our King County Sherrif's department who developed the "Arrestling" program. It's a fine program which teaches ground fighting with the firearm aspect for law enforcement.

Anyway, since the thread is about what is combat. I would reiterate that any situation in which in which I think it possible that one or the other of us will die is combat. In law enforcement this is typically a short term, incident related mind set. In the military it can be almost a state of being when in extended operations in time of war.

Last edited by George S. Ledyard : 05-07-2008 at 04:45 PM.

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Old 05-07-2008, 05:26 PM   #60
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Re: What is "combat"?

Quote:
George S. Ledyard wrote: View Post
I think that "combat" is relative easy to define... It's combat when you cross the line at which the threat is "deadly". When you perceive the threat represents a reasonable risk to you (or someone else) of serious and lasting bodily harm, then you are at the Deadly Force" level of confrontation. At that point it is combat.

.
I am in total agreement with all your assessments, George. Good show.

I recently received Instructor certfication in Arrestling, something I am particularly proud of, as it is not the typical 40-hours-to-instructor class but rather takes years to achieve.

Great points re: empty hand vs. guns at close quarters, and groundwork involving firearms (in holster and in hand - the problem gets even more interesting when EACH has a gun in play...). Extreme, but a certain Ohio trooper had just this sort of shooting.

Same with your addressing of the tactical team environment. The force and teamwork is usually so overwhelming that shock, surprise and overwhelming force tend to make for "entry combatives" being relatively short work.

The "combat" threat in the tactical team environment is quite rare, but when it is there, things have gone pretty bad! That's why we say we'd "rather be in a shooting than a gunfight."
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Old 05-07-2008, 06:35 PM   #61
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Re: What is "combat"?

Good post George, thanks for spending the time to do it.

For what it is worth, Tuesday, I am attending a workgroup meeting on "way ahead" for the Army Combatives Program.

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Old 05-07-2008, 06:43 PM   #62
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Re: What is "combat"?

Quote:
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The "combat" threat in the tactical team environment is quite rare, but when it is there, things have gone pretty bad! That's why we say we'd "rather be in a shooting than a gunfight."
No question, the son of one of my best friends was killed going through the door on an entry. The subject was standing just inside the door with a rifle at the ready...

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Old 05-07-2008, 07:15 PM   #63
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Re: What is "combat"?

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Not true, Kevin. According to a recently released Swiss report, you may be something of a murderer.... because you certainly don't "value all life equally".

http://www.ekah.admin.ch/uploads/med...lanze-2008.pdf

Mike
Well you know the Swiss, their arguments are always full of holes!

Good read, thanks for providing the link.

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Old 05-07-2008, 10:53 PM   #64
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Re: What is "combat"?

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George S. Ledyard wrote: View Post
No question, the son of one of my best friends was killed going through the door on an entry. The subject was standing just inside the door with a rifle at the ready...
If you are talking about B.L, my condolences. Happened when I was at the Academy. I work with guys who knew him.
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Old 05-08-2008, 09:56 PM   #65
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Re: What is "combat"?

Quote:
George S. Ledyard wrote: View Post
Law Enforcement is difficult because they are expected to deal with an entire range of force and do so routinely..... The number which end up in a full out level II confrontation in which impact techniques are required is even smaller by quite a bit... Most training officers are given is geared towards restraint. What deadly force training they get typically revolves around the use of the firearm. Very few get what I would call Level III empty hand training which would contain deadly force empty hand techniques.
My original thought in posting this thread was to explore how Aikido might be suited to police and military work since you have a range of hard and soft techniques to choose from.

Now I'm even more convinced after reading what Ledyard Sensei wrote. Especially given that the police are occasionally captured on video using excessive force, which might be avoided with more training in correctly discerning the threat level and responding appropriately.

And Aikido teaches lots of counters to the specific attacks Kit mentioned in the ASLET and Calibre studies that would help professionals stay in control of those level II and III situations.
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Old 05-09-2008, 01:53 AM   #66
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Re: What is "combat"?

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My original thought in posting this thread was to explore how Aikido might be suited to police and military work since you have a range of hard and soft techniques to choose from.

Now I'm even more convinced after reading what Ledyard Sensei wrote. Especially given that the police are occasionally captured on video using excessive force, which might be avoided with more training in correctly discerning the threat level and responding appropriately.

And Aikido teaches lots of counters to the specific attacks Kit mentioned in the ASLET and Calibre studies that would help professionals stay in control of those level II and III situations.
Check out the Koga Institute and Robert Koga. He was the first person in the US to teach an Aikido based Defensive tactics system to the police. He was the trainer for the LAPD way back in the day.
Koga Institute

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Old 05-09-2008, 03:38 PM   #67
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Re: What is "combat"?

Quote:
Bill Danosky wrote: View Post
My original thought in posting this thread was to explore how Aikido might be suited to police and military work since you have a range of hard and soft techniques to choose from.

Now I'm even more convinced after reading what Ledyard Sensei wrote. Especially given that the police are occasionally captured on video using excessive force, which might be avoided with more training in correctly discerning the threat level and responding appropriately.

And Aikido teaches lots of counters to the specific attacks Kit mentioned in the ASLET and Calibre studies that would help professionals stay in control of those level II and III situations.
I can't speak from an LEO point of view as I am not one, but from the military, I can....

I think it depends on how it is taught and approached. Certainly there are aikido instructors that have much to offer us in this area. I'd like to think that there is much room for improvement in what we are taught in the military when it applies to spectrum of force. I find much in the aikido curriculum which we could learn from as a military.

That said, again, it depends on how it is approached. There is only so much time, and you have to prioritize about what you spend your time doing. You also have culture and demographics to contend with. So, if you only have so much time, and you only have so much interest that will be invested...what do you teach? What is most important?

Our Army Combatives program contains many of the principles of aikido while not necessarily focusing on any of them.

Is there room for growth in our program? Yes. However, I think you have to reach a certain level of skill development in areas that most aikido dojos don't spend time on like BJJ dojos do spend time on.

The principles are there and are definitely there and you are never told "no you can't do that."

Labels like "aikido" and "BJJ" serve to help us frame things so we can have conversations and group a certain collection of things, but really I hate to use them as the are so limiting when you think about it.

Anyway, my thoughts on the subject.

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Old 05-09-2008, 04:21 PM   #68
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Re: What is "combat"?

...and from the LEO perspective, I would agree with Kevin. The combined integration of what you do from the arrest and control/combatives perspective is the goal.

Aikido-as-art has just as many limitations as BJJ-as-art does, or any other. But each has elements that fit nicely into the total package when trained and integrated appropriately.
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Old 05-09-2008, 07:28 PM   #69
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Re: What is "combat"?

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Aikido-as-art has ...elements that fit nicely into the total package when trained and integrated appropriately.
You probably know this- The Kidotai (those black armored Tokyo riot police) agree- They are required to complete the famously grueling, year long Yoshinkan boot camp before they get their button. And nobody thinks they're not ready for duty.

Civilian students at Hombu that get the nod from Kancho can enter the Senshusei course, too. That's like letting civilians into Navy Seal training!
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Old 05-09-2008, 08:59 PM   #70
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Re: What is "combat"?

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You probably know this- The Kidotai (those black armored Tokyo riot police) agree- They are required to complete the famously grueling, year long Yoshinkan boot camp before they get their button. And nobody thinks they're not ready for duty.

Civilian students at Hombu that get the nod from Kancho can enter the Senshusei course, too. That's like letting civilians into Navy Seal training!
Bill

I do. And we probably have two completely different ideas on what that means that we will never be able to adequately hash out on the Internet.

Many police Stateside are required to train in antiquated and inadequate training methods for what they do.

We have no idea if that is the case with the Kidotai, if they do that course for the grueling part of the training and not the techniques, if they do that training and then go to the Judo dojo "for the real stuff," or if they combine that course with all sorts of other things to make what they do work for them.

We don't know that half the team thinks the class is a waste of time but would never challenge the status quo because that just isn't done...

That is the point I am making about assuming too much value to a "martial art" versus a combative system. The two are not the same. I know cops that think Systema is a great system for armed professionals, and I know cops that think it will get someone killed.

What does that all mean? I don't think there is a real answer to that question. Certainly not one that can be solved without being in the same room.
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Old 05-09-2008, 10:18 PM   #71
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Re: What is "combat"?

Senshusei is specifically an accredited Yoshinkan Instructor course. They don't teach people anything except how much guts they have, and very hard Aikido technique.

Hombu makes it grueling because they want the certificate to really mean something. It's very long because they want to make sure you don't make it unless you're truly in posession of the techniques.

It turns out guys like Robert Mustard Sensei. I think he could perform shomen irimi nage on someone trying to hit him with a car.
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Old 05-09-2008, 11:32 PM   #72
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Re: What is "combat"?

I've read the book. I have a lot of respect for that training program, and as aikido goes I see Yoshinkan as a robust system (BTW, I am not an aikidoka), and heard great things about Mustard.

But, like the SEALS Hell Week, its a different thing than technical application.

Spiritual forging, a gut check, what have you, can be found in a number of disciplines that have nothing to do with practical, technical application. To tie this back into the thread, does something like that have a direct effect on one's performance in a "combat" situation?

Of course. But it doesn't necessarily pay the bills for any and all situations.

I recently finished Marcus Luttrell's Lone Survivor. Excellent book detailing the harrowing experience he went through. He describes Hell Week, and credits his warrior spirit during his experience in Afghanistan with being forged in large part by what he underwent during that event. There is talk about the SEALS that they win fights with entire bars full of people because they are in so much better shape, and have so much more warrior mindset, than everyone else.

But that experience did not teach him anything about how he would have dealt with, say, a State Champion wrestler trying to take him down in a bar and bash his head in with a beer bottle from a technical perspective. Though he could get just as dead in the latter situation.

I will try to make some sense here, so bear with me.

Combative function, across the spectrum that one may encounter based on ones needs, is comprised of several things. Today LE training refers to it as the "Survival Triangle." The traditional version of that being Shin-Gi-Tai. Mind, Technique, and Body.

To be truly prepared across that spectrum mentioned above, you need all three. And different types of all three.

If all your martial art is based on is "principles," and you do not work on specific technical aspects for specific problems (with principles naturally manifesting through technique and vice-versa), you are underprepared for the combative spectrum, though you may be perfectly capable in certain limited circumstances.

If all your martial discipline is about is "mindset," the same applies.

If all your discipline is about is "technique," or "conditioning," same again.

Now each and every one of these things may be all you need in a particular set of circumstances. It may be all you ever need if you are never really challenged in a serious struggle across the spectrum. And in different situations, one may be more important than the other - my most serious encounter involved no "martial arts" technique at all, but I credit walking out of a room after suffering a critical injury with a foundation in mindset and conditioning that I directly relate to martial arts training.

That does not mean the same performance would transfer to a situation where I would need technique, or a specific set of techniques: say groundfighting, or weapon retention, or what have you.

I may have the shin and tai all squared away - I may have the gi even - say in aikido, or in muay Thai.

But if the particular combination I need in that circumstance, when my life is on the line is the shin, the tai, and the gi - specifically groundfighting against a larger, stronger, skilled wrestler who beating my head in from on top of me and I don't have that skill to access;

I will probably end up dead.

Likewise, I may have the gi and the tai all squared away: I may be in incredible shape and be dialed in on all my fighting skills in every phase or range - but if my mindset is not there that day, and if I take that bullet, or get stabbed, or punched in the mouth and find myself swallowing gulpfulls of blood and teeth and panic and think: "I can't deal with this, I'm just gonna roll over and hope he stops,"

I will probably end up dead.

There are so many more layers and it can get so much more complicated than that - maybe I don't have the ground skills for that wreslter, but I do have weapon skills, but because I haven't trained those skills under legitimate force on force circumstances with a partner who is actually trying to defeat me, I choose to draw my weapon at a time when he has superior position and he takes it from me, and now I am swallowing blood, have a wrestler on top of me, who just took my knife or gun.... I may have the mindset and conditioning to deal with that, but those will run out rather quickly if I don't have an inkling of the proper skills, or integrated skills, to deal with that situation.

Which is why I remain very wary of the defensive tactics instructor or LEO or soldier with "one system," or one approach to doing something and thinking that it is "complete," and all he'll ever need.

Hope I am making sense, its hard to put into words.

Last edited by KIT : 05-09-2008 at 11:36 PM.
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Old 05-10-2008, 04:30 AM   #73
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: What is "combat"?

Some very good points being made.

I mentioned a while back that their were cultural and demographic issues that impacted training in the military. These played a big part when ultimately deciding what we would spend our time training on. The program had to not only be relevant, but it had to be sustainable and something that our soldiers would be willing to do.

Japan, obviously, is a different culture, and the riot police a subset of a subset. What training might work there, may not work so well in the U.S.

All warrior cultures develop some sort of forging process for elite warriors. I proudly completed Ranger School a while back, one of my greatest mental and physical accomplishments. There were lots of technical things we did there, and it was a leadership school, but it was much more than that. (Kit points out some good examples above).

On the purpose of Combatives training:

My Friend and founder of Modern Army Combatives, Matt Larsen has some good quotes that I think escape people some times. They are key though to the importance of this type of training, and point to the realitive value of the technical aspects of training.

1. The Defining characterisitic of a warrior is the WILLINGNESS to close with and destroy the enemy.

2. The winner of the hand to hand fight is the guy whose buddy shows up first with a gun.

3. We do combatives not because we of the skills you learn will be useful in a fight, but because learning how to fight will make you a great fighter when the moment arises.

It is first and foremost about producing warriors, less about the technicial aspects. This is why, I think systems that focus on technical aspects of fighting vice the forging aspects of fighting fall on a less than enthusiastic audience when you present it to "warrior professionals" many times.

That and you always have the guys that are willing to collect the pay check, put on the uniform, and pretend. You will always have those guys in the system reqardless.

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Old 05-10-2008, 04:38 AM   #74
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: What is "combat"?

Bill,

I was just reading through your post. I hope you don't think that Kit and I think aikido type training is not a valid form of training. As obviously the Japanese feel it is worthwile.

Some Trivia: Who played a big part in the founding and shaping the Marine Corps Martial Arts Program (MCMAP)?

MCMAP does not look like anything to do with aikido. MCMAP as with MACP (Army), you can find all the basic underlying principles, but the methodology looks nothing like what you find in aikido dojos.

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Old 05-10-2008, 08:38 AM   #75
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Re: What is "combat"?

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
Bill,

I was just reading through your post. I hope you don't think that Kit and I think aikido type training is not a valid form of training. As obviously the Japanese feel it is worthwile.

.
This is true, and why I wanted to avoid that impression. HOW you do something is more important than the something you do.

I have been favorably impressed by some people's application of aikido or aikido-like strategies and techniques. I have seen others that were no so impressive. I have seen some excellent BJJ based combatives stuff offered, and some very poor examples.
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