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Old 03-03-2008, 06:01 PM   #26
eyrie
 
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Re: New interview with Christian Tissier Shihan (in English!)

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote:
Watch Koryu jujutsu, Aikido, Aikijujutsu,
Then watch Judo, Then watch push hands... Then go fight someone.
Its simply not the same. Retaining an aggressive modality before during and after an attack changes everything in both parties. Were one to -then- include a structured frame, then flowing internal power through various changes in that dynamic you will utterly change the way Aikido is currently practiced. Further the change would not look like Ueshibas aikido either..... Were you to actively teach both parties, one would have to virtually shut off and go counter to all his skills to make the waza look like aikido waza. One might be averse to doing so and it would gradually morph to push hands/ jujutsu with aiki power shared.
I get what you're saying Dan, but it should be noted that the comments regarding Takeda were made within the context of a demonstration, and should be viewed in that light. So, I don't think it's a fair comparison of what you're saying, in light of a, by all accounts, pretty "tame" aikido demonstration of aikido waza - and degree of skill, within the context of that venue.

I do get what you're saying Dan, and yes it is very different. Playing with high-level karateka and jujitsuka showed me that. But, learning, training, and practicing (something) is different to a contest of skill, and again different to actual fighting. The modality and dynamics are completely different.

Going back to what Allen asked, do you perform differently when showing and helping someone "get it", or do you fight them all the way and foil them, thus sacrificing the opportunity for them to learn? In a demonstration of skill, does your uke foil your attempt to perform the technique, and in the process, rob others of seeing how the technique is performed? Of course it's different. It's not a contest, where both proponents are trying to apply technique. It's an entirely different venue and context.

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote:
The attacker was Nage.... It is why Takeda appropriately called his art... a defensive art. That said he readily acknowledged it was powerful and dangerous and single blow could kill.
I concur. And I'll concede that the demonstration is not a true indication of Y. Takeda's power. Having been on the receiving end of a fraction of that power, what Chris said of his experiences with Takeda gels with my own personal experiences and perceptions.

Ignatius
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Old 03-03-2008, 06:36 PM   #27
DH
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Re: New interview with Christian Tissier Shihan (in English!)

Quote:
Ignatius Teo wrote: View Post
I get what you're saying Dan, but it should be noted that the comments regarding Takeda were made within the context of a demonstration, and should be viewed in that light. So, I don't think it's a fair comparison of what you're saying, in light of a, by all accounts, pretty "tame" aikido demonstration of aikido waza - and degree of skill, within the context of that venue.

I do get what you're saying Dan, and yes it is very different. Playing with high-level karateka and jujitsuka showed me that. But, learning, training, and practicing (something) is different to a contest of skill, and again different to actual fighting. The modality and dynamics are completely different.

Going back to what Allen asked, do you perform differently when showing and helping someone "get it", or do you fight them all the way and foil them, thus sacrificing the opportunity for them to learn? In a demonstration of skill, does your uke foil your attempt to perform the technique, and in the process, rob others of seeing how the technique is performed? Of course it's different. It's not a contest, where both proponents are trying to apply technique. It's an entirely different venue and context.

I concur. And I'll concede that the demonstration is not a true indication of Y. Takeda's power. Having been on the receiving end of a fraction of that power, what Chris said of his experiences with Takeda gels with my own personal experiences and perceptions.
Ignatius
I'm at a bit of a loss. you just reiterated what I layed out in those posts from demos to training to force on force and that from no structure-against-power all the way up, to power-to-power. Is there an example you just offered that I failed to cover?
Er...thanks..I think.
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Old 03-03-2008, 06:41 PM   #28
DH
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Re: New interview with Christian Tissier Shihan (in English!)

Ricky
I've never been and have no interest in going to Vegas. Blek!
On the other hand why not take a trip to the woods. no glitz, nothing nice, a dojo in an unfinished barn, no running water, A real loser of an enterprise, and lots of sweat-y people. It's awful!
And all we do is work Usually in 6 hour drills, somerimes 10 hours straight on Saturdays in the winter, and you may walk away with something that you might like. Then again. maybe not.
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Old 03-03-2008, 07:01 PM   #29
gdandscompserv
 
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Re: New interview with Christian Tissier Shihan (in English!)

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Ricky
I've never been and have no interest in going to Vegas. Blek!
On the other hand why not take a trip to the woods. no glitz, nothing nice, a dojo in an unfinished barn, no running water, A real loser of an enterprise, and lots of sweat-y people. It's awful!
And all we do is work Usually in 6 hour drills, somerimes 10 hours straight on Saturdays in the winter, and you may walk away with something that you might like. Then again. maybe not.
Dan,
I like the woods and barns. I will begin saving money and vacation time.
And about Vegas; you're pretty much spot on, yet some people really like it.
Anything in particular I should be doing to prepare?
Thanks,
Ricky
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Old 03-03-2008, 07:14 PM   #30
eyrie
 
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Location: Summerholm, Queensland
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Re: New interview with Christian Tissier Shihan (in English!)

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Ignatius
I'm at a bit of a loss. you just reiterated what I layed out in those posts from demos to training to force on force and that from no structure-against-power all the way up, to power-to-power. Is there an example you just offered that I failed to cover?
Er...thanks..I think.
Er... I think we're talking past each other Dan... either I'm not reading you right or you're saying something way above my present level of comprehension. Probably both...

Ignatius
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Old 03-04-2008, 12:09 PM   #31
Blake Holtzen
Location: Florida
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Re: New interview with Christian Tissier Shihan (in English!)

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Ricky
I've never been and have no interest in going to Vegas. Blek!
On the other hand why not take a trip to the woods. no glitz, nothing nice, a dojo in an unfinished barn, no running water, A real loser of an enterprise, and lots of sweat-y people. It's awful!
And all we do is work Usually in 6 hour drills, somerimes 10 hours straight on Saturdays in the winter, and you may walk away with something that you might like. Then again. maybe not.
Barns? Did somebody say barns? My iowa-sense is tingling...

Training in a barn for long hours sounds like a hella good time. When you gonna let me push on ya Dan?

-Blake
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