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Old 03-01-2008, 09:00 AM   #26
gregg block
 
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Re: Mickey Mouse Aikido (MMA) Clubs

ok

Last edited by gregg block : 03-01-2008 at 09:05 AM.
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Old 03-01-2008, 09:00 AM   #27
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Re: Mickey Mouse Aikido (MMA) Clubs

Quote:
David Yap wrote: View Post
Bad example, Cito.

Those were kids in yellow belts (9th kyu??). Show me two adults with black belts and wearing hakama doing the same thing and I will agree it is frosting with no cake.

Cheers

David Y
Well I remember a 10 year old boy at my first club who was failed during his first grading... but he showed more martial intent during his exam than the two children in the video..

It's never too early to impart the core of Aikido as a Budo.. but that's just my humble opinion

Inocencio Maramba, MD, MSc
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Old 03-01-2008, 09:13 AM   #28
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Re: Mickey Mouse Aikido (MMA) Clubs

Quote:
David Yap wrote: View Post
Hi Cito,

This is a continuation of my last post:
From my last post, you didn't notice from the diagrams as to why the Nage could manage to execute those extra steps. Did he not break Uke's balance and posture? Or, did he lost control and allow Uke to regain his/her posture? Aikido is about intent. Did Nage intend to neutralise Uke's aggression in the shortest time or was it his intention to toy with the Uke? In the same context, where's the cake?

Cheers
david Y
Hi David.
Just to make things clear, let me say right away that I agree with you .
Now that that is out of the way..

If Tori did not break balance (kuzushi), then he/she did not follow Dictum 1 (see my previous post). The same, if Tori lost control of Uke.
If Tori was toying with Uke then that is ego at work which has no place in budo practice
Those extra steps are potential suki which can be used by uke to counter tori (in a real situation).
Any change (henka-waza). should be in response to a real change in uke's intent / aggression / etc. Any change just to "look good" is again just ego at work and a potential suki in a real situation.

Cheers,

Cito

Inocencio Maramba, MD, MSc
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Old 03-01-2008, 09:20 AM   #29
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Re: Mickey Mouse Aikido (MMA) Clubs

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Phi Truong wrote: View Post
I don't believe mickey, rocky, bullwinkle, donald duck and goofy have ever study martial arts much less aikido. on the other hand, there were strong evidents that daffy duck has studied various koryu, is an accomplished ki master. daffy has demonstrated kokyu power on a number of occasions along with a version of, possibly Iwama linage, aiki jo. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehqaRvlo5pg

daffy also joined a new religion headed by porky pig the monk who has shown to be a hidden master of ki that can stop a direct attack with just a tooth pick.
Any one who can use a Green Lantern Power Ring must have strong ki!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suaN8Ed3KDo

Inocencio Maramba, MD, MSc
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Old 03-01-2008, 12:07 PM   #30
Dan Rubin
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Re: Mickey Mouse Aikido (MMA) Clubs

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Nick Pittson wrote: View Post
I am almost certain I have seen a quote, somewhere, by Ueshiba Kisshomaru quoting his father as saying he had decided on this name...but at the moment am at a loss to produce it.
My understanding is that soon after the name "aikido" was given to a division of the Dai Nihon Butokukai, O Sensei decided to give the same name to his art.
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Old 03-01-2008, 01:47 PM   #31
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Re: Mickey Mouse Aikido (MMA) Clubs

Quote:
Clark Bateman wrote: View Post
Not flaming here, but this doesn't make it so. With all due respects, Kisshomaru Doshu also chose other things (and people, too) to be "selectively" remembered and forgotten.
1. If I am going to be flamed, might as well be by you, someone who I respect.
2. Are you telling me that people, even Doshus, have selective memories? Whats next, that I cant believe everything I read? Point taken.

Perhaps the point I was trying to make, now that I think about it, was that I understand O-Sensei to have not only moved through different arts (apparently mastering some), but also kept the name, and focus, of his art evolving. It would stand to reason that his goals, like everyones, shift and change over time, but I believe that one of the messages he left us with was that his art was "..not a technique to fight with or defeat the enemy. It is the way to reconcile to world and make human beings one family."
I am still not clear, and maybe never will be, on how much of the cake is bu, and how much is do.

On the point of what O-Sensei called his art, I guess I stand corrected, but do have a couple of questions on this point, but the most important would have to be: what would he have called it during, say, the last year of his life? Would his answer have been one to not cause confusion, or have been one that he felt in his heart best described it?

FWIW.

Pehaps this merits it's own thread, and sorry for the jacking.

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Old 03-01-2008, 03:21 PM   #32
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Re: Mickey Mouse Aikido (MMA) Clubs

Quote:
Nick Pittson wrote: View Post
I am still not clear, and maybe never will be, on how much of the cake is bu, and how much is do.
I think this depends on who (and when) you ask. O-Sensei evolved, and his Aikido evolved. There were others who didn't go exactly the same way.

Quote:
Nick Pittson wrote: View Post
What would he have called it during, say, the last year of his life? Would his answer have been one to not cause confusion, or have been one that he felt in his heart best described it?
I wasn't there (sure wish I was), but the impression I get from my reading and the people I have discussed it with, is that his later years were spent in reflection and refinement of his ideas. Much of his musing was cryptic, or at least very much open to individual interpretation. I don't see anything that would lead me to believe he was profoundly interested that his ideas be completely understood by others, but simply wanted to be true to his beliefs. But this was after his retirement, and while there was no occasion to deal with the politics (or the headaches) of running his organization. I have also heard nothing about his having expressed any late-life misgivings about the name of the art.
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Old 03-01-2008, 04:38 PM   #33
Nick P.
 
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Re: Mickey Mouse Aikido (MMA) Clubs

My questions, to some degree, are aimed at O-Sensei directly; of course it is all conjecture on our parts, but the ideal scenario would have been to ask him, directly, in the last couple years of his life..."Sensei, why are we training? What is the direction/goal our training should take?"

Failing that, seek out his direct and most recent students, and attempt to apply what (7th, 8th, and 9th dans, yeah right!) are trying to show/tell you.

I am thankful to have been educated by this thread on the beginnnings of the term aikido, but after reading the quote supplied by Mr. Moses, am left with the image that there is a collection of arts that share the name "aikido", but likely share little resemblence to what we collectively think of when we say aikido, and probably, and I mean no disrespect, lead a relatively obscure existence.

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Old 03-01-2008, 08:58 PM   #34
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Re: Mickey Mouse Aikido (MMA) Clubs

Quote:
Nick Pittson wrote: View Post
My questions, to some degree, are aimed at O-Sensei directly; of course it is all conjecture on our parts, but the ideal scenario would have been to ask him, directly, in the last couple years of his life..."Sensei, why are we training? What is the direction/goal our training should take?"...snip
Hi Nick,

Perhaps this article can be of assistance, it made reference to Akira Tohei shihan, one of O Sensei's deshi.

http://www.aikidobarbados.com/Tokuiku_Taiiku.pdf

The article was written by Dr. Hiroaki Izumi.

Cheers

David Y
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Old 03-01-2008, 09:02 PM   #35
Steven
 
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Re: Mickey Mouse Aikido (MMA) Clubs

Quote:
David Yap wrote: View Post
Bad example, Cito.

Those were kids in yellow belts (9th kyu??). Show me two adults with black belts and wearing hakama doing the same thing and I will agree it is frosting with no cake.

Cheers

David Y
http://youtube.com/watch?v=9OqMLzVKAJs
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Old 03-01-2008, 09:10 PM   #36
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Re: Mickey Mouse Aikido (MMA) Clubs

Quote:
Cito Maramba wrote: View Post
It's never too early to impart the core of Aikido as a Budo.. but that's just my humble opinion
Hi Cito,

Couldn't agree with you more.

Cheers

David Y
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Old 03-01-2008, 09:30 PM   #37
David Yap
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Re: Mickey Mouse Aikido (MMA) Clubs

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Steven Miranda wrote: View Post
Thanks so much, Steven.

I haven't laugh so much reading the comments shown on the video. They should have put in some music in it. I can see the cake but there were too many fruits on cake.

The aikido bashings posted there are outrageous.

David Y
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Old 03-02-2008, 06:44 PM   #38
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Re: Mickey Mouse Aikido (MMA) Clubs

Quote:
David Yap wrote: View Post
Thanks so much, Steven.

I haven't laugh so much reading the comments shown on the video. They should have put in some music in it. I can see the cake but there were too many fruits on cake.
I found many of the comments to be homophobic, along with the title of the video (and your comment isn't exactly what I'd call enlightened either).
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Old 03-02-2008, 07:27 PM   #39
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Re: Mickey Mouse Aikido (MMA) Clubs

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
I found many of the comments to be homophobic, along with the title of the video (and your comment isn't exactly what I'd call enlightened either).
Mary,

I laughed at the comments appearing in the video clip. My laughters are not on the other posts commenting about it. I agree with you that the comments about the video clips are mostly homophobic.

I posted that I can see the aiki principles (the cake) applied and there were too many fruits (decorations). Perhaps my post wasn't explicit enough.

The fruits create suki (openings) allowing application of kaeshi waza. There was an intention why these guys came up with this routine - to show their artistic talent, chereographic skill and whatnot. The point is that it was recorded and the video was downloaded to a public domain for all and sundry to comment. People who don't do aikido would get the wrong impresssion of the art. Even people who do aikido do not even see their intention. Similarly, there were a lot of negative comments about Watanabe shihan's comical no touch aikido routine at the annual aikikai demos but people who know Watanable shihan know his aikido is very martial.

Would you use this video routine in your regular practice? I wouldn't but I would use this video an educational tool for the students to explain the purpose of kaeshi waza.

FWIW

David Y

Last edited by David Yap : 03-02-2008 at 07:30 PM.
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Old 03-02-2008, 09:47 PM   #40
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Re: Mickey Mouse Aikido (MMA) Clubs

David, I think Mary was referring to your use of the word "fruit", which is often used as a derogatory reference to gay people. Sometimes, cultural and language differences create this type of misunderstanding.
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Old 03-02-2008, 10:25 PM   #41
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Re: Mickey Mouse Aikido (MMA) Clubs

Quote:
Clark Bateman wrote: View Post
David, I think Mary was referring to your use of the word "fruit", which is often used as a derogatory reference to gay people. Sometimes, cultural and language differences create this type of misunderstanding.
Oops

Point taken. Thank you

David Y
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Old 03-03-2008, 08:33 AM   #42
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Re: Mickey Mouse Aikido (MMA) Clubs

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Nick Pittson wrote: View Post
I am thankful to have been educated by this thread on the beginnnings of the term aikido, but after reading the quote supplied by Mr. Moses, am left with the image that there is a collection of arts that share the name "aikido", but likely share little resemblence to what we collectively think of when we say aikido, and probably, and I mean no disrespect, lead a relatively obscure existence.
Just Chris please.

That does seem to have been the intent, although other than some of the Korindo Aikido groups, most systems that use the term Aikido, trace themselves back to Ueshiba Morihei. Some lines of Daito Ryu have also gone by "Aikido" at times (Takumakai for example), although they began their study of DR under OSensei.

(Not making a point, just filling in more detail 'cause I'm a nerd.)

Chris Moses
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Old 03-03-2008, 10:16 AM   #43
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Re: Mickey Mouse Aikido (MMA) Clubs

Another "Aikido" usage that claims it's lineage directly from DRJJ (not Takeda), and without influence from O'Sensei, is the Nihon Goshin Aikido system, as currently taught in NYC by Richard Bowe.
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Old 03-03-2008, 11:25 AM   #44
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Re: Mickey Mouse Aikido (MMA) Clubs

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Clark Bateman wrote: View Post
Another "Aikido" usage that claims it's lineage directly from DRJJ (not Takeda), and without influence from O'Sensei, is the Nihon Goshin Aikido system, as currently taught in NYC by Richard Bowe.
Hi all,

FYI, my thread refers to the Aikido linked to Ueshiba only. Do dojo under the Korindo Aikido group and the Nihon Goshin Aikido system link their lineages to Ueshiba and hang photographs of his likeness in their dojo walls? These groups have the least linkage (perhaps zero) at all.

Is there a possibility that MMA style would not have evoluted if the names like Aikijutsu and Aikibudo, etc. have been maintained? When Bruce Lee created Jeet Kune Do from his base art Wing Chun Kuan, we can still see some Wing Chun moves in his new art. Bruce Lee could walk the talk and talk the walk - he talked about his philosophy on JKD.

When an aikidoka wants to do the same with aikido, can he still practice under the name of aikido even if he/she has diverted from its path (whatever Ryu)?

FWIW

David Y

Last edited by David Yap : 03-03-2008 at 11:29 AM.
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Old 03-03-2008, 02:25 PM   #45
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Re: Mickey Mouse Aikido (MMA) Clubs

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David Yap wrote: View Post
...can he still practice under the name of aikido even if he/she has diverted from its path (whatever Ryu)?
Can he? I suppose so. It's done every day. Should he? That is another matter altogether.
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Old 03-03-2008, 07:17 PM   #46
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Re: Mickey Mouse Aikido (MMA) Clubs

Quote:
David Yap wrote: View Post
Thanks so much, Steven.

I haven't laugh so much reading the comments shown on the video. They should have put in some music in it. I can see the cake but there were too many fruits on cake.

The aikido bashings posted there are outrageous.

David Y
It's actually performance art. The same vid is posted some where else on youtube with a full explination.

Damn I love arguing on that threat though.
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Old 03-03-2008, 08:08 PM   #47
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Re: Mickey Mouse Aikido (MMA) Clubs

Quote:
Nick Pittson wrote: View Post
My questions, to some degree, are aimed at O-Sensei directly; of course it is all conjecture on our parts, but the ideal scenario would have been to ask him, directly, in the last couple years of his life..."Sensei, why are we training? What is the direction/goal our training should take?"
Terry Dobson has recounted that in ten years of training with O Sensei, he only ever asked him one direct question . The question is unimportant, the answer is not. He answered, " Find out for yourself."

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 03-03-2008, 08:29 PM   #48
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Re: Mickey Mouse Aikido (MMA) Clubs

Quote:
Erick Mead wrote: View Post
Terry Dobson has recounted that in ten years of training with O Sensei, he only ever asked him one direct question . The question is unimportant, the answer is not. He answered, " Find out for yourself."
Perhaps he meant to say, "To find yourself".

Sometimes, cultural and language differences create this type of misunderstanding

Rgds

David Y
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Old 03-03-2008, 10:45 PM   #49
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Re: Mickey Mouse Aikido (MMA) Clubs

I thought this thread was really about Mickey Mouse doing Aikido.

If this attached picture shows, it's an actual foreign Disney stamp of Mickey and Donald doing Aikido that someone put a magnet on the back. Bought it years ago off of E-bay and it's on the fridge now.

Robyn
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Old 03-04-2008, 06:09 AM   #50
Peter Seth
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Smile Re: Mickey Mouse Aikido (MMA) Clubs

Hi Everyone.
Havnt posted for a while - interesting thread this. Ive skimmed over the posts and it seems the interest lies in not losing or diluting O'sensei's art. Its a good thing to have a baseline, a set of roots to develop. Saying that, I believe aikido/budo whatever is 'organic' it should naturally grow and develop into a rich and even diverse art with the varied input of good hearted people. We are all different and interpret things differntly, no one has the right to say that is/is not aikido. Keeping basic principles and adding to them can only be a good thing.
pete
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