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Old 02-24-2008, 07:50 AM   #126
Chris Parkerson
Dojo: Academy of the Martial Arts
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Re: Strategy and Aikido

Quote:
If full on attack, the process I teach is Musubi - Tsukuri - Kuzushi - Release. In the process of Musubi (connection and flow), my positioning and angles (part of Tsukuri) allow for the Kuzushi (my definition is allowing someone to lose their balance) to take place, then one just releases what ever anchor Nage is giving them and they fall.

If the attack is more "sophisticated" meaning not over-extended etc., the process becomes Connect - Blend - Track - Lead - Resolve. This can take a little more time, because Nage must process the interaction such that through tracking Uke's movement, speed etc., Uke "tells" nage exactly where the Avenue of Release (as I think of it) is as the interaction unfolds, and thus Kuzushi etc. happens.

Loss of structural integrity is a little more subtle, in a sense, in that Uke doesn't necessarily perceive why the loss is happening, he just experiences falling down, or more often, collapsing down or inward....
Wonderful words. I love your imagery.
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Old 02-24-2008, 11:36 AM   #127
Aikibu
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Re: Strategy and Aikido

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Larry Novick wrote: View Post

Anyway, just a few random thoughts....
What He said. Good Post and more along the line of what I was trying to explain to Kevin.

The Circle Square Triangle "concept" is something that was taught to me along time ago first in Judo and then in Aikido It's what I was trying to illustrate with my Bullfighting anology...

Thanks for the excellent refresher folks.

William Hazen
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Old 02-29-2008, 06:42 PM   #128
Chris Parkerson
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Re: Strategy and Aikido

Here is my version of strategy...

enter, disrupt stability, take balance, use aiki-no-jutsu if you need it, and punch if the other stuff does not get the results you wanted.

Soft Aiki with Hsingi-style Atemi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-gG_loRZGI

Soft left sided/handed aiki techniques without Hsing-I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIc2u...eature=related
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Old 02-29-2008, 08:20 PM   #129
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Strategy and Aikido

Chris,

I know we are just using words here. Semantics play a big part.

Chris, how does disrupt stabiilty differ from taking balance in your eyes?

If you mean disrupt stability, then would that not involve the threat of atemi?

If you don't get the desired results from that (balance), then wouldn't that result in "punch" at that point? If punch works, it works right? If it works, then you get balance (or knock out) This would be defined as success (depending on your application of ethics).

If you are not successful, then you have to move on to something else until you get the desired result, if not then you have problems that you now have to over come.

I guess my point is, that in my mind I don't delineate my "fight plan" into such categories.

That is "do aikido" if that fails...punch.

My fight plan is as follows: (Assuming I am in a position to do so).

Enter. This means close the distance on him. If you can't do this, then it means he has closed the distance on you. If this happens you must move on to defense and/or regaining balance/dominance.

Achieve Dominance. This would equate to "taking center" "balance" whatever.

End the fight. This can be from pins, submissions, control, or rendering him unconscious in some way. It is inclusive of the ethics of aikido's principles of conflict resolution if you so choose or have the skills to enforce.

I am sure that you do the same and it is semantics.

To me, this is the hierarchy that is followed universally in conflict.

If you violate this hierarchy, you will not be successful (or you may not have a fight )

Dominance or control is the key. Either you have it or you don't. If you don't then you either have parity or he has dominance. If you have parity, then you are going to slug it out until someone achieves it. Granted it may be quick if a haymaker is thrown and it results in a knock out. So you could blow through this step quickly to the end. For the most part though, strategy should be to achieve dominance/control. Trying to slug it out (parity) is risky.

You continue on that path Close, Control, Finish.

Saying well I would use aikido...unless it didn't work..then I'd punch is disjointed to me.

It assumes that the atemi or martial presence is not there and then you have to default to something that is external to that process.

If your strategy is failing, you need to return back to the loop in the process.

Now in fairness to Chris, it is semantics. I know what he is saying.

If it is failing, then he would use punches to gain space, disrupt, and atempt to regain control...OR get lucky and get a K.O.

I do think it is important to realize that there is a process that we follow in fighting and aikido and it is a complete loop.

In my mind, we don't work it, then if it fails abandon it..rinse, wash, and repeat!

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Old 02-29-2008, 08:53 PM   #130
Chris Parkerson
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Re: Strategy and Aikido

Kevin,
Just having some fun. But, as usual, putting a small truth into it.

Good aiki effects both the opponent's stability and then takes balance. If stability is not taken, and you take balance, the opponent can re-balance. I am sure we are just caught in semantics and overthinking my joke.

But so many initial atemi do not really set up uke for a good throw just like poor aiki does not set someone up for a throw. You know as well as I, folks can take allot of punishment if they are standing in a fight stance and well balanced.

But good aiki should set up uke. So, in the video, I just put the punch last for fun and to show how kuzushi aids in a Tai Chi uproot (or down root).

It also helps me to use a system of escalation that is reasonable in my job -- not being under color of law or under the Nato rules of engagement.
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Old 02-29-2008, 09:39 PM   #131
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Strategy and Aikido

Chris I understand....it makes for a good discussion though.

You are correct that there are people that can take alot of punishment of course, that will take a hit and not do what you wanted them to. That is why we have other means, like judo type throws, single/double legs, clinch, and taking their back.

The fact remains though that we can't move on to resolving (finishing) until we achieve dominance/control. This is especially true if indeed your punches are not working!

As far as escalation of force...you can apply that along the model of close, control, finish. It all depends on your skill level, training, weapons and of course, situational luck!

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Old 03-01-2008, 02:08 AM   #132
Stefan Stenudd
 
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Accept, join, and guide

Quote:
Chris Parkerson wrote: View Post
What is the essential strategy in Aikido technique?
There is nothing unique with my take on it, but here it is, anyway:

Any technique starts with a taisabaki evasion - not with the intention to get away from the attack, but to let it pass.

Next step is to lead the attack on, always initially in its original direction (again not to obstruct it). That is a way of joining with it.

Thirdly, I guide the attack to a peaceful ending, enjoyable for both of us.

So, the three steps are: accept, join, and guide.

One could also say that an aikido technique is a transformation of a fight into a dance

Stefan Stenudd
My aikido website: http://www.stenudd.com/aikido/
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Aikidostenudd
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Old 03-01-2008, 02:13 PM   #133
Chris Parkerson
Dojo: Academy of the Martial Arts
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Re: Strategy and Aikido

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
Chris I understand....it makes for a good discussion though.

You are correct that there are people that can take alot of punishment of course, that will take a hit and not do what you wanted them to. That is why we have other means, like judo type throws, single/double legs, clinch, and taking their back.

The fact remains though that we can't move on to resolving (finishing) until we achieve dominance/control. This is especially true if indeed your punches are not working!

As far as escalation of force...you can apply that along the model of close, control, finish. It all depends on your skill level, training, weapons and of course, situational luck!
I like the idea of "close, control, finish". You are right that Judo/(standing) Jujitsu uses the "reaps" to assist in this paradigm. In a "mass attack" Judo and Jujitsu can get over-entangled with one person while the rest of the attackers maul you. This is seen all the time in Krav Maga, military Sambo, etc. Too much entanglement.

Aiki arts are the fix. But it takes a long while to get good at it. More fluidity, less entanglement. My point of interest is that it really is not pure aikijujutsu or aiki-no-jutsu unless you get the first two elements on first contact (balance and stability). This is the hard study. The points of fighting that I sent you earlier, they are the same as external Jutsu. But each one is like one of those russian eggs. You open the egg and a smaller egg is inside. ad infinitum. There is the real Aiki study.
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