Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-04-2008, 07:55 AM   #201
xuzen
 
xuzen's Avatar
Dojo: None at the moment - on hiatus
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 965
Malaysia
Offline
Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
I don't worry about it, since I can kick everyone's butt anyway, so it does not matter because whatever aikido I do...mine is the best!

I don't do it with fast reflexes or speed, or strength (unless I want to). I usually just stare at them really hard and they give up.

Sometimes, if I am really angry, I generate so much power that I have to hold it back cause just the static electricity that builds up in my body is enough to induce heart failure. I did use it once as an AED to help a guy out that was having a heart attack, so that "negative" energy does have some good uses I guess.

Sensei told me that is was wrong to use my powers for my own self gain and that I needed to let people make mistakes and figure things our for themselves and that I should only use "our" style of aikido when someone is really in trouble, like they are going to jump off a bridge, or they are crossing the street in front of a car or something.

It is hard to do this though, because sometimes I realize that I do have to use my strength, power, and speed to stop a guy from getting in front of a car. (I guess if they are not looking at me, or know that I am present, then I can't use my "evil stare" to stop them). So there has been a few people I could not help! It made me sad.

So, anyway, i usually choose to not use my aiki powers, and we usually keep them secret from everyone else for these reason. Also, if everyone found out how awesome we where and how good my sensei really was, well then, we would not have time to train our own powers as everyone would want to come. besides....how special would we be if we let everyone in on our secrets?

It is a huge responsibility and a very hard burden to study our form of aikido, but I know it is the best, and I am glad that Sensei allows me to study it!

ps. don't tell him I wrote this here...he would not like it and will make me form a thousand KI balls which is very tiring.
Silly Otaku

Boon.

SHOMEN-ATE (TM), the solution to 90% of aikido and life's problems.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2008, 08:19 AM   #202
dbotari
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 97
Canada
Offline
Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Joseph Madden wrote: View Post
When the MMA first started
there were many aikidoka who were handed their hats to them in the ring because of that lack of competition (my opinion).

OSU
Who are they? As far as I am aware no one who has competed in MMA, specifically the UFC, has identified themselves as an "aikido" practitioner. I could be wrong, so I thought I'd ask.

Thanks,

Dan

Last edited by dbotari : 02-04-2008 at 08:26 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2008, 08:30 AM   #203
xuzen
 
xuzen's Avatar
Dojo: None at the moment - on hiatus
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 965
Malaysia
Offline
Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Dan Botari wrote: View Post
Who are they? As far as I am aware no one who has competed in MMA, specifically the UFC, who identified themselves as an "aikido" practitioner. I could be wrong, so I thought I'd ask.

Thanks,

Dan
Read in somewhere in the internet:

IIRC there were a couple of Tomiki players who tried their hand in the early UFC, and was very quickly owned by the ground game of the BJJ' er.

The fact was, many different type of martial artist were equally owned by the ground players during the early phase.

I think it was more attributed to them not accustomed to the newaza aspect of fighting.

Subsequently, there has not been any real/pure aikido players in the scene. Jason DeLucia probably is the only one I can think of in the circuit, but even he is not a pure aikido-ka.

I know aikido has never produce MMA/Pride/UFC type celebrity, and it was quickly assumed by the martial art world that lack of evidence = lack of effectiveness.

Boon.

SHOMEN-ATE (TM), the solution to 90% of aikido and life's problems.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2008, 02:58 PM   #204
Bronson
 
Bronson's Avatar
Dojo: Seiwa Dojo and Southside Dojo
Location: Battle Creek & Kalamazoo, MI
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,677
Offline
Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Alex Lawrence wrote: View Post
Yeah, but were you taught in the mountains by a tengu?
Kevin, didn't your Sensei recently promote you to the rank of Tengu?

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2008, 03:35 PM   #205
Joseph Madden
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 160
Canada
Offline
Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Dan Botari wrote: View Post
Who are they? As far as I am aware no one who has competed in MMA, specifically the UFC, has identified themselves as an "aikido" practitioner. I could be wrong, so I thought I'd ask.

Thanks,

Dan
Dan,
I was referring to the early days of UFC, in the mid 90's when there
were some aikidoka who where defeated by BJJ's(specifically the Gracies).

OSU
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2008, 03:37 PM   #206
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
Offline
Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Hi Joseph,

But what were their names? I mean, if they competed, there must be some record of it. What were their names, what was their record, how many times did they compete?

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2008, 04:31 PM   #207
Kevin Leavitt
 
Kevin Leavitt's Avatar
Dojo: Team Combat USA
Location: Olympia, Washington
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,376
United_States
Offline
Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

I had my ass owned by a BJJer, but that was in 2003. guess what?

I now study BJJ. Still get my ass owned. (Ask me how I did in the European Championships in Lisbon this past weekend...NOT!)

However, having a better understanding of a broader range of perspecitve/paradigm...I am able to discuss things much more intelligently and proficiently today...than I could of 4 years ago!

Translated: I talk less out of my ass about such subject today, than I did in 2003.

Last edited by Kevin Leavitt : 02-04-2008 at 04:31 PM. Reason: mispellings

  Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2008, 04:45 PM   #208
Joseph Madden
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 160
Canada
Offline
Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Ron,

Some of these aikidoka where Yoshinkan. Read Angry White Pajama
for additional info.

OSU

P.S.
As Xu mentioned earlier, there where various martial artists
who tried to defeat the BJJ's and couldn't do it. However, I
still believe you would fare better in a fight with multiple attackers
with aikido.

Last edited by Joseph Madden : 02-04-2008 at 04:47 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2008, 06:10 PM   #209
Kevin Leavitt
 
Kevin Leavitt's Avatar
Dojo: Team Combat USA
Location: Olympia, Washington
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,376
United_States
Offline
Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

multiple opponents....fare better? why is that? What assumptions are you making as to why one training methodology would fare better than another? Different people...i'd by, but based on style or methodology?

  Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2008, 06:28 PM   #210
Aristeia
Location: Auckland
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 971
New Zealand
Offline
Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

hmm...it's been a while since I read Angry White PJs but I'd lay down a dollop of cash that it doesn't mention anything about matches between aikidoka and BJJers....

"When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail"
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2008, 07:02 PM   #211
Kevin Leavitt
 
Kevin Leavitt's Avatar
Dojo: Team Combat USA
Location: Olympia, Washington
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,376
United_States
Offline
Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

I think part of the problem here is that BJJ and MMA are being used interchangeably as synonyms. They are not the same necessarily.

  Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2008, 07:09 PM   #212
Joseph Madden
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 160
Canada
Offline
Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Michael Fooks wrote: View Post
hmm...it's been a while since I read Angry White PJs but I'd lay down a dollop of cash that it doesn't mention anything about matches between aikidoka and BJJers....
And you'd win that bet Michael. My bad. There is a mention of one of the student instructors in the senshusei course named Paul who gets chocked out by Royce during a seminar, and not during an actual match.

Pages 254/255.

OSU
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2008, 11:14 PM   #213
xuzen
 
xuzen's Avatar
Dojo: None at the moment - on hiatus
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 965
Malaysia
Offline
Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Angus Chen wrote: View Post
did u know Osensei's son put a disgrace on Aikido?? He stole the dojo from the person Osensei trusted who can pass Aikido down. And his son has made his own styles of Aikido and heeps other ppl did too. (Hombu, Yoshinkan)

now heres my point, We had a Iwama white belt and a Humbu 4th dan training together. The Hombu tried a technique on the White belt but just didn't work when the whit belt did it, its worked. I saw it with my own eyes trust me.

Iwama was the original style and the "best" style, the techniques were correct and teaching method was correct.

but now Aikid has so many styles, and many of which is worse than Iwama and so people think AIkido is bad, but Aikido the real one, is actually the best martial art ever =D XD
Quote:
Angus Chen wrote:
each style has an emphasis on different things, but hey, all i'm saying is wat i've seen, Iwama is the real deal LOL i think Yoshinkan and everything is great for self defense, but Aikido is not JUST self defense

ITs a Martial art, but when ppl say Aikido sucks and start to hate it, Its because the real and original Aikido has been changing into different styles and stuff. Honbu and Yoshinkan and others r great but to be honest with u ppl, Iwama is better LOL

but wats better also depends on the person, maybe he has faster reflexes and stuff so yea, it depends.

And also alot of people find other martial arts better like Karate and Taekwondo, personally, i do not think they r real martial arts, the philosophy and action is totally not martial.
Gayest Post 3V4!!!!

Boon.

SHOMEN-ATE (TM), the solution to 90% of aikido and life's problems.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2008, 02:23 AM   #214
Aristeia
Location: Auckland
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 971
New Zealand
Offline
Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Joseph Madden wrote: View Post
And you'd win that bet Michael. My bad. There is a mention of one of the student instructors in the senshusei course named Paul who gets chocked out by Royce during a seminar, and not during an actual match.

Pages 254/255.

OSU
right you are.

"When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail"
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2008, 07:18 AM   #215
DonMagee
Location: Indiana
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,311
United_States
Offline
Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
multiple opponents....fare better? why is that? What assumptions are you making as to why one training methodology would fare better than another? Different people...i'd by, but based on style or methodology?
I always fair better when I'm in a group of attackers. In fact, I can't think of a single time me and my friends have failed to win a fight with one guy.

I'm thinking of seeing about getting us all tire irons, just to make it more interesting.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2008, 08:23 AM   #216
happysod
Dojo: Kiburn, London, UK
Location: London
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 899
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
I'm thinking of seeing about getting us all tire irons..
Don, this just shows your total lack of breeding and sportmanship - typical yank - at least use nunchuks so the prey has a sporting chance, it's the thrill of the chase don'tcha know that gets the heart pounding and impresses the fillies... (oh, and have one of the valets keep a shotgun handy just in case the peasant has the audacity to bolt)
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2008, 09:13 AM   #217
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
Offline
Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

You guys are so passe...you should use a banana...or maybe a pointed stick...

B,
R

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2008, 09:15 AM   #218
Will Prusner
 
Will Prusner's Avatar
Dojo: AikiSpirit Dojo
Location: Coral Gables, Florida
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 196
United_States
Offline
Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Don Magee wrote: View Post
I'm thinking of seeing about getting us all tire irons, just to make it more interesting.
Please consider mohawks and switchblades instead of tire irons.

I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration...

ART! - http://birdsbeaks.blogspot.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2008, 11:05 AM   #219
phitruong
Dojo: Charlotte Aikikai Agatsu Dojo
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,896
United_States
Offline
Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Ian Hurst wrote: View Post
Don, this just shows your total lack of breeding and sportmanship - typical yank - at least use nunchuks so the prey has a sporting chance, it's the thrill of the chase don'tcha know that gets the heart pounding and impresses the fillies... (oh, and have one of the valets keep a shotgun handy just in case the peasant has the audacity to bolt)
Ian, that's just cruel and unusual punishment, giving the prey nunchuks and asking he/she to defend against Don's tire-iron-wielding-skirt-wearing attackers. I am sure Don folks would stand around snickering and taking bets to see when the poor sod going to knock him/herself out. I liked Don's approach in self-defense, safety in numbers and well armed.
Also, we don't use valets to keep the shotguns, our women handle that. why do you think we wage war in foreign lands? it's safer over there.

Sorry Jun, did not want to go off the topic, but the "devil's fire" made me do it.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2008, 05:37 PM   #220
mikebalko
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 25
Canada
Offline
Thumbs up Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

It's not that people hate aikido, they hate the people who are dan ranked in aikido but who can't physically demonstrate what they preach about without uke cooperation and assistance. Aikido instructors who try to convince modern, educated people that aikido trumps the laws of physics. People who have completely misinterpreted the founder's deep philosophical meanderings at the end of his life and as a result go from being regular hippies to being teriyaki flavored hippies who spew out enough propaganda that the masses think that aikido is the unnatural, anti survival nonsense they are blathering about. The people who practice revisionist history. Aikido sensei who have 40 years of aikido training yet still understand nothing of the historical rationale of the techniques and as result demonstrate irimi nage or ikkyo at the wrong maai as suitable defenses to a boxing combination/flurry and adopt "aikido principles" to newaza. I could go on all day. As a long time and current martial arts/aikido practitioner I say that hatred of these things is not only completely justified but a good and healthy reaction. The longer you practice, the longer the list gets. If you want to accelerate the process, aikido message boards are definately the way to go!
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2008, 07:31 PM   #221
mathewjgano
 
mathewjgano's Avatar
Dojo: Tsubaki Kannagara Jinja Aikidojo; Himeji Shodokan Dojo
Location: Renton
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,212
United_States
Offline
Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Mike Balko wrote: View Post
Aikido sensei who...adopt "aikido principles" to newaza.
Is that to mean Aikido principles can't be applied to newaza, or are you saying people hate it when folks apply a false understanding of them?

Gambarimashyo!
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2008, 05:19 AM   #222
Kevin Leavitt
 
Kevin Leavitt's Avatar
Dojo: Team Combat USA
Location: Olympia, Washington
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,376
United_States
Offline
Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Good post Mike. I think you are correct on a perspective. The other side of the coin though is this:

Even if you have a 40 year Shihan that could be doing everything correctly, people will still hear what they want to hear, and attempt to turn this into something it is not attempting to make it fit into whatever delusion they are attempting to feed for themselves.

I tend to not be so hard on the 40 year shihans these days, but more on the individuals since when you get down to it, it is not the institution that is failing the individual, but the individual that is failing themselves within the institution of aikido.

To be successful, really in anything in life, we have to begin with an end in mind. Know why we are training, and make sure that the things we are trying to master to achieve that endstate are actually the right things to be spending our time on.

I bet that a bunch of us out there in our budo practice cannot really articulate rationally why we are doing this thing called aikido!

So, is the system failing the individual, or is the individual failing him/her self?

Looking back at your post, I now realize that we are saying the same thing!

delusion is a bitch!

  Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2008, 11:23 AM   #223
Rick Berry
Dojo: Kokikai Wilmington Dojo
Location: Wilmington, Delaware
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 15
United_States
Offline
Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

The sense I get is that sometimes Aikido may look, or rather seem fake. After a beginner steps on the mat and has great difficulty in executing techniques, the instructor may tell the beginner's partner to soften up a bit to allow movement to completion. The beginner then starts to improve then goes out and attempts to demonstrate his newfound skills, and the problems begin. He experiences resistance and quite naturally attempts to use more strength to complete the technique, fails and the rumors begin. Aikido does not work.
Many years ago, a Tae Kwon Do master who knew I had been practicing Tae Kwon Do for 20 years, found out that I was studying Aikido. He asked me: Why do you study aikido? Aikido doesn't work. I chose not explain and left his ignorance intact.

Ultimately, it is a problem of the ego and/or flaws in temperament in those who demonstrate a dislike for something they know little about. I had a conversation with a former co-worker who said this: "I hate the Dallas Cowboys." ( He is an Philadelphia Eagles fan) I asked him if he knew anyone on the Dallas team and he said no. My questions on this idea; (1) How can you hate someone you do not know and have had no experience or interactions with? (2) What does that attitude teach his children? (3) Could this parental attitude be responsible for so much negativity,hatefulness and violence in today's youth and adults?
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2008, 03:03 PM   #224
Aikibu
Dojo: West Wind Dojo Santa Monica California
Location: Malibu, California
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,295
United_States
Offline
Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

All I know is that I have seen too much to buy into hating anything except folks who hate everything...Especially self proclaimed internet based "experts."

I just ignore most of them.

William Hazen

That's all we need is four more years of folks hating on each other or using hate and fear as a tool to maintain power.

I guess you know who I am voting for and if you ever heard the man in person The you too could hope that all of us can someday drop this kind of BS and move on to helping each other get better at whatever Martial Art we "lOVE".
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2008, 04:35 PM   #225
Allen Beebe
Location: Portland, OR
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 532
United_States
Offline
Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Here are 10 reasons for my hating Aikido (Not necessarily in order and not necessarily my top 10):

1) Every time I tie on my hakama I immediately have to pee.

2) The harder and longer I practice the more I realize my limitations and faults.

3) Even though my body is breaking down I'm happier training than when I am not training.

4) My Aikido students walk into my house (even if I lock the door) and drink my beer without asking. (Although usually they ask if I want one too.)

5) My Aikido students learn what I teach them to the extent that they delight in hurting me and force me to realize my limitations and faults and won't stop rubbing my nose in it until I improve enough that they can no-longer do so . . . AND THEN they expect me to teach them how to do it again!

6) I never was as good as "I used to be" and probably will never be as good as I want to be, and I don't feel as good about what I have accomplished as I expected to feel about it in the first place.

7) Where's the love? Where's the peace? (Not where's the fridge!)

8) My 1 1/2 year old son does my solo body exercises better than I do.

9) Anytime somebody wants to pick a fight with me and I warn them that I've trained in the deadly martial art of Aikido for decades, they walk away laughing . . . and I never get to try out any of my cool moves! (Which I'm absolutely convinced will work as practiced as long as they a) attack with proper intent and form, and b) properly realize that one strike can kill in Aikido and behave accordingly.)

10) I met my wife, became a Buddhist priest, met most of my best friends, got my first job, earned higher educational degrees, get to travel around the world, and have received a host of other cherished benefits all through Aikido . . . and I HATE Aikido! (For all of the above reasons and probably others too . . .) How sucky is that?

~ Allen Beebe
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
K. Tohei vs Aikikai Gwion General 64 12-13-2010 12:40 PM
Mixing Aikido with other martial arts Guilty Spark General 146 05-04-2008 11:10 AM
Dilution of aikido eugene_lo General 40 02-07-2006 12:22 PM
Aiki Expo Thoughts (Long!) akiy Seminars 5 09-29-2003 11:15 PM
Atemi DavidM General 61 06-24-2002 11:04 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:26 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2016 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2016 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate