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Old 01-29-2008, 01:23 PM   #51
Marc Abrams
Dojo: Aikido Arts of Shin Budo Kai/ Bedford Hills, New York
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Re: What to do ?

ANON:

You can choose your friends (you want them to feel like family), but you cannot choose your family (you want them to feel like friends)!

Trust is an indispensable part of genuine Aikido practice. There is simply no way for that trust to exist for you in your current dojo. You now lack full trust in the teacher and in that person. You are training in an art where people can easily get hurt. Without that level of trust and respect, the risks are far to great (in my opinion). This budo "family" is too dysfunctional and too risky.

For you, there is no "good" solution. The safest solution is simply to stop training at this dojo. Your teacher had an opportunity to instill the necessary boundaries that result in a high level of trust amongst the students and the teachers. The teacher's actions, as well-intended as they might be, did not accomplish what should be a necessary condition in training.

If the added costs of training at a new dojo curtail the amount of training that you would like to do, then practice on your own for now. Your safety should be a paramount concern. Allowing that dysfunction to continue to fester by allowing the teacher's "solution" to occur is simply too great a risk that you should have to take.

Best of Luck & Stay Safe!

Marc Abrams
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Old 01-29-2008, 02:22 PM   #52
Ron Tisdale
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Re: What to do ?

I don't think anyone else has mentioned this yet...

How much risk do your fellow female training partners face from this man? Your current teacher is willing to risk this happening to other students???!!!

B,
R

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 01-29-2008, 03:13 PM   #53
"Anonymous"
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Re: What to do ?

I will inform the other female students, before I leave. At the moment there is no danger for other woman, since there are only very few of them and all of them are married/have boyfriends, so they won't go to his flat.
My teacher somehow tried to convince me (no: to convince HIMSELF), that nothing really bad has happened. But at least he knows, what was going on, so if a new woman starts training, he hopefully will feel in charge to protect her. He even said, that he had thought about warning me, when he realized first (months ago), that there was some attraction between B and me. Well, I would not have believed him...
I still wish my "old" Sempai back, but I do know, it's impossible for me to ever trust him again as uke. Even if he would not try to hurt me, I know, that an injury would be an advantage for him. That's poison enough to cause accidents.
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Old 01-29-2008, 03:33 PM   #54
ChrisMoses
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Re: What to do ?

Quote:
Anonymous User wrote: View Post
He even said, that he had thought about warning me, when he realized first (months ago), that there was some attraction between B and me.
What exactly would he have been warning you about? This thing just stinks worse all the time. I frankly wouldn't let anyone train with me that I would feel the need to warn any of my other students about. Messed up.

Chris Moses
TNBBC, "Putting the ME in MEdiocre!"
Shinto Ryu Iai Battojutsu
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Old 01-29-2008, 04:22 PM   #55
"Anonymous"
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Re: What to do ?

I think, he would only have told me, that I shall not trust in B, that he would hurt ma feelings. In fact, some of the Sempai DID warn me several times, but I didn't listen.
Sensei (the other Sensei) even told me:"B has the potential of a killer, he is a danger, mostly for himself, but also for others. Not on the mat - not at all, but off the mat. I don't want to have this potential of aggression in this dojo. That man is going to get shot out there, if he does not change !"
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Old 01-29-2008, 04:30 PM   #56
"Anonymous"
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Re: What to do ?

Once I complained, that B did not help me, although he had promised to do so, and a Sempai told me:"Look, Anon, I DO love B, I love him very much, without any limits. but if it is about something important, it would never be B that I ask for help."
Another one told me: "He is not at all able to lead a relationship. If he has a girlfriend, it's impossible, that it lasts for long."
Stupid me didn't listen to them.
You do not know this man: Everybody - not only women -is fascinated by him. I do believe, it's the same with Sensei. he has not been hurt by him up to now, so he still does not believe, that B could really hurt anyone - I felt exactly the same way about him before this happened.
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Old 01-29-2008, 07:43 PM   #57
Marc Abrams
Dojo: Aikido Arts of Shin Budo Kai/ Bedford Hills, New York
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Re: What to do ?

Anon:

What you are describing is the typical profile of a predator. Luring the victim in and then trying to exert power to get what he wants. Christian's comment should be well taken. Your teacher is speaking with his theoretical head up his sphincter. If a person is bad, "universal/unconditional love" is absurd. It certainly has nothing to do with Aikido. Let me give you an analogy. That would be like saying that I have universal love for that melanoma growing on my skin, so that the love with heal me It simply needs to be removed, like that predator in your dojo. With that dirt ball, I would suggest a clean separation between C1 & C2!

I frankly think that a group of us should come and train at your school. You can sell spectator tickets in advance. Money raised could help offset the greater costs training at a saner dojo.

Marc Abrams
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Old 01-30-2008, 10:45 AM   #58
James Davis
 
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Re: What to do ?

Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote: View Post
I frankly think that a group of us should come and train at your school. You can sell spectator tickets in advance. Money raised could help offset the greater costs training at a saner dojo.

Marc Abrams
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"The only difference between Congress and drunken sailors is that drunken sailors spend their own money." -Tom Feeney, representative from Florida
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Old 01-31-2008, 02:13 PM   #59
Jennifer Yabut
 
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Re: What to do ?

Quote:
Anonymous User wrote: View Post
I think, he would only have told me, that I shall not trust in B, that he would hurt ma feelings. In fact, some of the Sempai DID warn me several times, but I didn't listen.
Sensei (the other Sensei) even told me:"B has the potential of a killer, he is a danger, mostly for himself, but also for others. Not on the mat - not at all, but off the mat. I don't want to have this potential of aggression in this dojo. That man is going to get shot out there, if he does not change !"
I bolded the last part of your statement for emphasis. So let me get this straight

Your sensei already KNEW about slimeball's "dangerous" tendencies - and yet ALLOWED him to train? Which not just put YOU in danger, but also the rest of the female students? It doesn't matter if the other students have spouses or are otherwise "taken". A sexual predator does NOT care about such details. What he did to you was a CRIME; has he ever been reported to the police? And WHY is your sensei even allowing him to continue training at that dojo...completely scott-free?

You need to decide for yourself if the relationships you built is worth the lack of safety you currently feel - and your sensei's apparent lack of empathy.

"The ultimate aim of martial arts is not having to use them." - Miyamoto Musashi
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Old 01-31-2008, 03:07 PM   #60
"Anonymous"
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Re: What to do ?

No, no, he has not been violent against women in the past. And in the dojo nor "really" violent against men. He has been reported to the police (and got punished by the court) for other things (betrayal), not for violence. It's more a strange, hard to describe "aura" around him, that can be very scary. Usually he is very nice, very charming, friendly, a good person, nice to talk to, nice to be with him, wonderful to train with. But he has also a dark side, that you sometimes (very seldom) can see for a short time. He has a lot of temperament, is very large, of enormous strength and a very well trained martial artist. There are other men of his size/strength at the dojo, but they don't have this "odour" of potential danger. I could describe it better in my own language. It's as if there were something in him, that is so very strange, not really evil, but strange, that no one can have contact with this part, not even he himself.
But these are only feelings. Maybe they are wrong and very unfair against him.
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Old 01-31-2008, 06:38 PM   #61
Pauliina Lievonen
 
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Re: What to do ?

Anonymous, that kind of feelings are very important. You should always listen to yourself if you have a feeling like that about a person.
Obviously on some level you weren't fooled.

Really bad people can be very charming, too.

Pauliina
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Old 01-31-2008, 09:40 PM   #62
Jennifer Yabut
 
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Re: What to do ?

Quote:
Anonymous User wrote: View Post
No, no, he has not been violent against women in the past. And in the dojo nor "really" violent against men. He has been reported to the police (and got punished by the court) for other things (betrayal), not for violence. It's more a strange, hard to describe "aura" around him, that can be very scary. Usually he is very nice, very charming, friendly, a good person, nice to talk to, nice to be with him, wonderful to train with. But he has also a dark side, that you sometimes (very seldom) can see for a short time. He has a lot of temperament, is very large, of enormous strength and a very well trained martial artist. There are other men of his size/strength at the dojo, but they don't have this "odour" of potential danger. I could describe it better in my own language. It's as if there were something in him, that is so very strange, not really evil, but strange, that no one can have contact with this part, not even he himself.
But these are only feelings. Maybe they are wrong and very unfair against him.
Wait a second...now you're *defending* him? If everything between you and him is perfectly fine, you wouldn't have made several posts concerning his behavior, wouldn't you? And you certainly wouldn't have asked your sensei to intervene on your behalf - even though your sensei "appeared" to have "minimalized" your feelings.

He may not have been physically "violent" against women per say, but judging by what you have shared, it sounds like he has a LONG history of being sexually INAPPROPRIATE with women (including you). That is just as serious - if not even more so, since sexual assault leaves deep psychological wounds that could take a lifetime to heal.

Then again, I don't know all the facts; just what you have shared. However, the little you have shared about the situation implies that this fellow should NOT be trusted - and certainly should NOT continue to train with you...or anyone else...PERIOD. If what you are saying is true - and your sensei is choosing to trivialize your bad experiences with this guy - you would seriously need to sit down and figure out for yourself if all this trauma is really worth it.

Don't completely disregard what your intuition may be telling you.

"The ultimate aim of martial arts is not having to use them." - Miyamoto Musashi
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Old 02-01-2008, 10:45 AM   #63
James Davis
 
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Re: What to do ?

Quote:
Jennifer Yabut wrote: View Post
Wait a second...now you're *defending* him?
In my limited experience, I've seen this happen in situations like these way too often. Sometimes, people do terrible things, and we shouldn't try to rationalize it or heap blame upon ourselves when some half-wit does us harm.

Sometimes, we put ourselves in dangerous situations, and it becomes a question of whether we love ourselves enough to get safe, whatever it takes.

"The only difference between Congress and drunken sailors is that drunken sailors spend their own money." -Tom Feeney, representative from Florida
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Old 02-01-2008, 11:08 AM   #64
Jennifer Yabut
 
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Re: What to do ?

Quote:
James Davis, Jr. wrote: View Post
In my limited experience, I've seen this happen in situations like these way too often. Sometimes, people do terrible things, and we shouldn't try to rationalize it or heap blame upon ourselves when some half-wit does us harm.

Sometimes, we put ourselves in dangerous situations, and it becomes a question of whether we love ourselves enough to get safe, whatever it takes.
I've also seen this happen WAY too many times as a social worker, and with some of my friends as well. I may not know the whole story in this particular case, but from the little she shared, it is more than alarming.

"The ultimate aim of martial arts is not having to use them." - Miyamoto Musashi
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Old 02-02-2008, 03:03 AM   #65
Marc Kupper
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Re: What to do ?

Quote:
Anonymous User wrote: View Post
No, no, he has not been violent against women in the past. And in the dojo nor "really" violent against men. He has been reported to the police (and got punished by the court) for other things (betrayal), not for violence. It's more a strange, hard to describe "aura" around him, that can be very scary. Usually he is very nice, very charming, friendly, a good person, nice to talk to, nice to be with him, wonderful to train with. But he has also a dark side, that you sometimes (very seldom) can see for a short time. He has a lot of temperament, is very large, of enormous strength and a very well trained martial artist. There are other men of his size/strength at the dojo, but they don't have this "odour" of potential danger. I could describe it better in my own language. It's as if there were something in him, that is so very strange, not really evil, but strange, that no one can have contact with this part, not even he himself. But these are only feelings. Maybe they are wrong and very unfair against him.
Dear Anonymous - Earlier you wrote "He did abuse me sexually (oral) ..." If you are under the age of consent, or were not a completely willing participant, then it's rape. Maybe in your country it does not meet the legal definition of rape but that's what it's called.

Your sensei appears unwilling to support you in dealing with someone that's raped you, has this "odour" of potential danger, and also from what you have described, is a predator.

Trust is a very important part of training and the foundation of trust comes from your own feelings. If you were to meet someone and had the "feeling" that something is wrong then trust yourself. Right now it seems there are at least two people in the dojo, your sensei, and B, that you can not trust to keep you safe.

You need to leave - save your money, keep in contact with people at the dojo you care about, let them know what happened so they can look out for any women that join the dojo, and some day you can train again. Ideally, "B" gets kicked out of the dojo and you can resume training there.

Marc
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Old 02-04-2008, 12:12 AM   #66
Janet Rosen
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Re: What to do ?

B sounds like a classic sociopath: charming, fascinating, amoral, manipulative, and turns dangerous on a dime when it seems safe to do so. Normally such a person WOULD be respectful of those in power, such as sensei, in order to get along.
The words and actions of your sensei speak volumes. GET OUT OF THAT DOJO NOW.

Janet Rosen
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Old 02-15-2008, 08:03 PM   #67
boyana
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Re: What to do ?

GET OUT OF THAT DOJO NOW!
All the best in the future!
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Old 02-19-2008, 12:02 PM   #68
mari
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Re: What to do ?

This is a very touchy subject but i strongly feel that you should tell your Sensei. He should know what is happening in his dojo, specially such behavior from a senior student, or anybody for that matter.

Me personally - i'd break his hands unintentionally nikkyo style and I wouldn't have to face the guy for a long while… I hope never to be in a situation, where I will have to make such a decision but if I do, I hope i have the gutts to do just what i said.
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Old 02-19-2008, 02:10 PM   #69
Will Prusner
 
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Re: What to do ?

Quote:
Mariya Cacheva wrote: View Post
Me personally - i'd break his hands unintentionally nikkyo style and I wouldn't have to face the guy for a long while… I hope never to be in a situation, where I will have to make such a decision but if I do, I hope i have the gutts to do just what i said.
ehhhh.... yeah, but...

Quote:
Anonymous User wrote: View Post
He has a lot of temperament, is very large, of enormous strength and a very well trained martial artist.
Maybe less guts, and more strategy would produce a more desirable result. Please don't take this as an attack. Just a personal observation that "force on force" confrontations are usually inefficient and potentially dangerous to all parties involved.

I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration...

ART! - http://birdsbeaks.blogspot.com/
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Old 02-19-2008, 02:24 PM   #70
Ron Tisdale
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Re: What to do ?

And I personally know people who eat that kind of thing up like candy. I saw someone thrown by a 7th dan once (after some shennangans [sp])...that fall would likely have killed me. Doncha know that bozo just jumped right back up and was ready for more?? {shrug}

Some of the worst offenders actually are tough guys. That's why it's up to the instructor to set the tune. In some cases, the tune is to Hit the Road, Jack.

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
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Old 02-19-2008, 06:21 PM   #71
eric_lecaptain
 
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Re: What to do ?

Quote:
Mariya Cacheva wrote: View Post
This is a very touchy subject but i strongly feel that you should tell your Sensei. He should know what is happening in his dojo, specially such behavior from a senior student, or anybody for that matter.

Me personally - i'd break his hands unintentionally nikkyo style and I wouldn't have to face the guy for a long while… I hope never to be in a situation, where I will have to make such a decision but if I do, I hope i have the gutts to do just what i said.
sounds like her sensei already knows what's happening.
if law enforcement wont help then perhaps several friends with baseball bats can...
sicko's that prey on women only learn one way. the hard way.
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Old 02-25-2008, 11:03 PM   #72
boyana
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Re: What to do ?

Yes I do like several friends with basebal bats!

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Old 03-10-2008, 01:23 PM   #73
Kaze0180
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Re: What to do ?

I am curious as to the outcome of this. Looking at it from an instructors POV and a business owners POV, no sexual activity should be tolerated in relation to the dojo. This is why companies have a no dating policy, because of questionable situations like this. I think dojo's should have a similar approach, and have a non-dating policy. People go there to train in a professional environment; if things go bad, illegal, or abusive, the dojo as a business/school is associated with this crime. It should not be tolerated and should be dealt with quickly, you do not want something like this looming over a school or a business. It will shy people away in fear of that happening to them.

If this person was put on probation, he must have done something serious. In that case, it was at the risk of the instructor to let him back. Knowing that he is up to something again should be a red flag to terminate his membership permanently. It is bad for the dojo to carry that student, and the student should be spending his time in therapy to cope with his sexual abuse. If all else fails, jail.

I hope you told the instructor. The student should not be allowed to use the dojo for his poaching grounds on victims, and it will be disappointing to your training if you can no longer train there because of the association of Aikido to this person. All in all, it is bad to keep this person in training at the dojo.

-Alexander
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Old 03-21-2008, 05:17 AM   #74
erikmenzel
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Re: What to do ?

I dont know about others but if such a problem would arise in our dojo I as one of the "seniors" would toss the person out personaly. I am responsible for the safety of my fellow aikidoka as well. I will not allow anyone to threaten or intimidate my training partners and as "senior" I will carry the burden of responsibility.
If you wanna train in our dojo you follow the rules. If you cannt follow the rules or arent willing to follow the rules then you are free to leave (either voluntarily or assisted).

Erik Jurrien Menzel
kokoro o makuru taisanmen ni hirake
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Old 04-23-2008, 08:12 AM   #75
"Anonymous"
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Re: What to do ?

What is it about this topic, that drives everybody half crazy ? Even people on AikiWeb start talking about beating up people for punishment. Of course this would not be right.
Well, the outcome of this: Stupid me behaved like a good boxer. Dont't stop fighting, until they really knock you out.
I went on training there. Being in one room with B scared me stiff at first. He seemed to be sorry, was very friendly and stayed far away from me, only once we had to partner up (teacher told us), he then performed all techniqes nearly without touching me at all. Sensei A (the one I had talked to) in his class took care, that we didn't have to partner up. So in his classes things started to be ok.
I
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