Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Techniques

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-16-2008, 06:27 PM   #51
Chris Parkerson
Dojo: Academy of the Martial Arts
Location: ohio
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 740
United_States
Offline
Re: Do You Block?

I think evasion and closing centers can happen at the same time.
Most aikido throwing techniques can be performedon at least 270 degrees of throwing points.

Evasion can be done at 1/4" from the ukes center as well as largo Mano.

The study of pivot points is a wonderful exploration. Especially the ones used up close. Yet it is still evasion.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2008, 07:40 AM   #52
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
Offline
Re: Do You Block?

I agree with Chris. Evasion as I have taught it works at the begining, middle and end of the waza. I'll see if I can find some examples.

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2008, 10:31 AM   #53
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
Offline
Re: Do You Block?

In an effort not to clutter up this thread with a side discussion, I have create a new thread call Evasions in Aikido here:

http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showth...453#post197453

Where I discuss some of my perspectives on what I feel that constitutes.

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2008, 06:38 PM   #54
JamesDavid
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 28
Australia
Offline
Re: Do You Block?

My feelings about the blocking technique is that it has different objective to what I have been taught. Namely he is waiting for the strike and taking the strike at a point where the attacker has fully developed the power of the strike. This allows him to keep the same distance from the attacker. Perfect if you want to go on sparing. I am sure his technique is effective, however I consider a block to be dynamic at the point of contact. Not just presenting a rigid arm.

The posture of his arm does present the bone, but it is also quite close to him. As anyone who has done any serious weight training will know, to get the maximum range of motion and strength out of the triceps you need to twist you palm away from you as you extend. This is what I do when I block (as taught in Yoshinkan). At the point of contact my arm isn't still but it is cutting into the attack. In reality if an attacker came onto me quickly I think my block would look almost identical as the one shown in the clip, the difference being that I would still be extending my arm at the time of contact. In an ideal situation, I would see the attack coming and to move forward to cut into the strike before it developed power. Obviously the blocking arm will be stronger in the line of the attack if it is more extend. Naturally this would achieve my objectives off changing the distance to the attacker and getting off line. It's how I have been taught to deal with that kind of attack. But then again I have never had to spar a karataka.

  Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2008, 09:07 AM   #55
George S. Ledyard
 
George S. Ledyard's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Eastside
Location: Bellevue, WA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,639
Offline
Re: Do You Block?

Quote:
Xu Wenfung wrote: View Post
Goju-ryu karatedo clip

Look at 1' 38" to 1' 58" of the clip. Look at how the karate sensei blocks the punches.

Do you block like this in your aikido practice?

I have seen my aikido teacher blocks as such. I have seen even Kancho Shioda blocks like this against tanto yokomen-uchi attacks in his videos.

Do you think it is good to develop this skill in your aikido practice. If not, why not?

Thanks for your opinion.

Boon.
The way I was taught, blocking represents a failure to "join" properly. It happens when you have been attacked when mentally "open".

Every technique has to involve an instant when you "accept" the attack. It is impossible to do a technique with "aiki" without this. Blocking is, according to my definition, a rejection of the attack. It involves a "stoppage" of the incoming energy. It may be necessary if one is surprised by an attack but the goal is to not block but rather to join. That doesn't mean that we don't movement which one might mistakenly take for a block. The difference is that our movement would entail effecting the entire body of the attacker, not just his arm or leg. Most people would call these movements deflections.

The goal of Aikido is "katsu hayabi" or instant victory. There is a spiritual meaning to this term but in terms of technique it means that the instant you touch, you have the attacker's center. Blocking is a movement that stops particular movement in a larger flow of attack. A deflection on the other hand not only protects you from the incoming blow but positions the attacker in such a way that any further blows are more difficult or impossible. A deflection catches the whole body not just the attacking limb.

Generally, one should try to avoid blocking and strive for movement which always effects the fundamental alignment of the attacker. That's what makes it "aiki" rather than what I learned in my Shotokan classes which involved a lot of power blocking to disable the attacking limb but not much center to center connection.

If you look at what Ushiro Sensei is doing with the movements that appear to be "blocking movements". He is really using the energy of the physical movement to move the mind of the attacker. They call this concept "zero power" in that there is no physical power focused at the point of physical contact. So, to an outsider it would appear to be a block but in reality it didn't "block" anything. Body movement made him safe, the "blocking movement" was a way of connecting rather than stopping the attack. This is "aiki". This is what we are striving for, I think.

Last edited by George S. Ledyard : 01-29-2008 at 09:16 AM.

George S. Ledyard
Aikido Eastside
Bellevue, WA
Aikido Eastside
AikidoDvds.Com
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2008, 09:37 AM   #56
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
Offline
Re: Do You Block?

Hi George, did you by any chance take a look at my side post?

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2008, 04:23 PM   #57
George S. Ledyard
 
George S. Ledyard's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Eastside
Location: Bellevue, WA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,639
Offline
Re: Do You Block?

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote: View Post
Hi George, did you by any chance take a look at my side post?

Best,
Ron
Hi Ron,
I replied to it on the other thread. Thanks for the renewed direction in the discussion.
- George

George S. Ledyard
Aikido Eastside
Bellevue, WA
Aikido Eastside
AikidoDvds.Com
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2008, 05:57 PM   #58
Chris Parkerson
Dojo: Academy of the Martial Arts
Location: ohio
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 740
United_States
Offline
Ai symbol Re: Do You Block?

Quote:
The goal of Aikido is "katsu hayabi" or instant victory. ....the instant you touch, you have the attacker's center. Blocking is a movement that stops particular movement in a larger flow of attack. .....

Generally, one should try to avoid blocking and strive for movement which always effects the fundamental alignment of the attacker. That's what makes it "aiki" ......

If you look at what Ushiro Sensei is doing with the movements that appear to be "blocking movements". He is really using the energy of the physical movement to move the mind of the attacker. They call this concept "zero power" in that there is no physical power focused at the point of physical contact. So, to an outsider it would appear to be a block but in reality it didn't "block" anything. Body movement made him safe, the "blocking movement" was a way of connecting rather than stopping the attack. This is "aiki". This is what we are striving for, I think.
There are a variety of Asian Boxing systems (pugilism) as well as a variety of levels within the systems. Some systems like Hung Gar or Shotokan begin and remain quite hard and thus their blocks are like you say; i.e. they stop or even break a limb without reference to controlling the opponent's center.

In the softer systems it is often said, "the hard becomes soft and the soft becomes substantial". Thus in Hsing-I, Pa Kua, Tai Chi and even in the upper levels of Shaolin, blocks do the same as the connection you talk about in Aikido with "zero power". Thus, it is said, "the Tai Chi master can move a mountain with 4 ounces of strength".

Even in high-level pugilism of Kosho-Ryu Kenpo, if uke touches tori or if tori touches uke, uke pays a price; uke loses control of his/her center. Thus we have the idea of sticky hands. Sticky hands only works because you are softly locking up joints with compression, extension, or torque while you allow gravity and friction to "drop weight" upon uke's center through the connection.
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Budo Bear Patterns - Sewing pattern for Women's (and Men's) dogi.



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Not so New Girl on the Block UnholyFracas Introductions 6 01-17-2006 05:50 AM
To block or not to block kokyu Techniques 30 07-19-2004 12:38 PM
Poll: If you didn't block an atemi from your teacher, would your teacher hit you? AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 12 06-15-2003 05:07 AM
When someone try to block you Carl Simard Training 34 10-23-2002 10:36 AM
not more atemis! - to block or not? ian Techniques 28 10-29-2000 10:05 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:25 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate