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Old 12-29-2007, 10:41 AM   #1
dps
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Tomiki Sensei and O'Sensei

Does anyone know how much training or contact Tomiki Sensei had with O'Sensei during the period following his release from Russian prison in Manchuria in 1949 until O'Sensei's death in 1969?

David
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Old 12-29-2007, 12:44 PM   #2
mathewjgano
 
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Re: Tomiki Sensei and O'Sensei

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David Skaggs wrote: View Post
Does anyone know how much training or contact Tomiki Sensei had with O'Sensei during the period following his release from Russian prison in Manchuria in 1949 until O'Sensei's death in 1969?

David
I bet Peter R. has some insight. I'm not sure how much time he's been spending on aikiweb though. If you don't get an answer soon perhaps try PM-ing him.

Gambarimashyo!
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Old 12-30-2007, 01:53 PM   #3
L. Camejo
 
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Re: Tomiki Sensei and O'Sensei

Hi Folks,

As far as Aikido: Tradition and the Competitive Edge goes, it indicated that Tomiki returned to Japan in November 1948 and first worked on restoring Judo for the sake of the Kodokan.

In 1949 he called on Ueshiba M. in Iwama and paid his respects. In autumn of that same year he took a teaching post at Waseda University in Tokyo, becoming the Chief Instructor of the Waseda Judo Club in 1951. Here he taught the Judo students Aikido after Judo practice and continued his Aikido research, then forming the Waseda Aikido Club in 1958. From here Tomiki finally had a dojo to do some serious development of what is now known as Competitive Aikido.

It is said that Ueshiba M. lived in Iwama from 1942 until his death in 1969. Given the amount of things Tomiki was involved with from reviving post-war Judo, to being a Professor at Waseda, to being Chief instructor at Waseda Judo Club and then creating a foundation for competitive Aikido to then setup the Waseda Aikido Club, I don't see much opportunity to visit Iwama and interact with Ueshiba M. and train on any prolonged basis.

This is just my own interpolation based on the facts I have available. It would be nice if Peter R. or someone else with more info could enlighten us.

In my own personal opinion I think Tomiki's visit to Iwama in 1949 revealed that the Aikido being taught by Ueshiba M. at that time was becoming something different to the Daito Ryu/Ueshiba Ryu Aikijujutsu/Aikibudo/Aikido taught to Tomiki Sensei between 1926 and 1940.

Just some thoughts.

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
http://www.tntaikido.org
http://www.mushinkan.ca
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Old 12-30-2007, 09:47 PM   #4
dps
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Re: Tomiki Sensei and O'Sensei

Thank you for your replies,

I first started Aikido with the Aikikai style close to twenty years ago. I now am in Shodokan (Tomiki) Aikido. Right off I noticed a difference that I attributed to the difference in teaching methodology. But now I see a distinct difference between the two styles that I feel is because Tomiki Sensei learned Daito Ryu Aikijujutsu from O'Sensei. I was wondering what influence if any O'Sensei had on Professor Tomiki after his return from Manchuria.

David
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Old 12-30-2007, 10:37 PM   #5
L. Camejo
 
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Re: Tomiki Sensei and O'Sensei

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David Skaggs wrote: View Post
Thank you for your replies,

I first started Aikido with the Aikikai style close to twenty years ago. I now am in Shodokan (Tomiki) Aikido. Right off I noticed a difference that I attributed to the difference in teaching methodology. But now I see a distinct difference between the two styles that I feel is because Tomiki Sensei learned Daito Ryu Aikijujutsu from O'Sensei. I was wondering what influence if any O'Sensei had on Professor Tomiki after his return from Manchuria.

David
Hi David,

You raise a good question.

From my own research and chats with one of the JAA Shihan, it appears that after Tomiki received 8th Dan from Ueshiba M. in 1940 when Ueshiba first adopted the Kyu/Dan system, Tomiki was effectively recognized as a master of the syllabus taught to him by Ueshiba M. In 1938, Tomiki had already left to teach in Manchukuo (China) and it is recorded that Ueshiba M. visited him there and conducted seminars up until 1942.

Since 1938 Tomiki already had the idea of systematizing what Ueshiba M. taught him in a similar fashion to how Kano J. systematized Judo from some of the Koryu Jujutsu. In fact Tomiki spoke to Kano about this before leaving for Manchukuo. As a professor of Budo at Kenkoku University in China, Tomiki furthered his approach towards structuring the way Aikido/Aikibudo was taught.

Given this scenario, by the time he returned to Japan from his Siberian Internship in 1948, Tomiki was teaching and developing Aikido on his own for approximately 6 years (1938-1944/5) in China. It would be interesting to know the details of the meeting they had in 1949 at Iwama when Tomiki went to pay his respects, but at least from the written stuff I've found, it appears that there was limited contact between the two after Tomiki's return.

One more thing about the Shodokan/Aikikai link - In 1970 Tomiki K. sent Nariyama Sensei (Technical Director of J.A.A.) to study under Hirokazu Kobayashi (then of the Aikikai) as part of his own training. So besides Tomiki Shihan's direct exposure to Ueshiba M. in the "old school" (DRAJJ/Aikibudo) I think that through Nariyama Sensei the Shodokan system is also benefiting from the post-war Aikido of Ueshiba M. as taught by Kobayashi H. who, like Tomiki was also a regular Uke of the Founder. Some of this can be found on the Shodokan Hombu Site here - http://homepage2.nifty.com/shodokan/en/oshie5.html. Kobayashi Sensei's history can be found here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hirokaz...shi_(aikidoka).

Regards.

Last edited by L. Camejo : 12-30-2007 at 10:41 PM.

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
http://www.tntaikido.org
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Old 12-31-2007, 01:55 AM   #6
PeterR
 
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Re: Tomiki Sensei and O'Sensei

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote: View Post
I was wondering what influence if any O'Sensei had on Professor Tomiki after his return from Manchuria.
Well I don't have a direct answer but I would say not very much insofar as the molding of Tomiki as a martial artist and a man. By the time he returned from internment Tomiki was pretty much his own man. We see little things like Tomiki renaming his Aiki taiso according to what Ueshiba said, and larger things like Tomiki sticking to his guns vis a vis the competitive format which Ueshiba M. had reservations about.

I think it is important to point out Tomiki's continuing association with the Aikikai. He taught there until the early 60's, maintained relationships with particular Shihan before and after Ueshiba's death, and showed up at times like Tohei's promotion parties.

Still in both cases (Aikikai and Ueshiba M.) I don't think there were any substantial changes to Tomiki or his Aikido.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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