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Old 12-15-2007, 11:04 AM   #26
Qatana
 
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Re: Cross-Training my kids?

"Autumn is ok I think, she really like weapons and she wants to do gymnastics I see no harm and it should be good so I just need to find a way to make it happen.

My little boy Sayer however, right now is ok but I worry that he will get board with Aikido. He wants to learn to kick and punch, wrestle etc. I have two kids that are not the same age and are different genders and people."

This was exactrly my point.

Last edited by Qatana : 12-15-2007 at 11:08 AM.

Q
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Old 12-15-2007, 11:18 AM   #27
Ketsan
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Re: Cross-Training my kids?

Quote:
Sam Turnage wrote: View Post
Ok to me it is very important to me or fundamental to my kids leaning or education that they learn self-defense and or a marshal art for many reasons. To me it is just as important as learning to read and write. I have two kids as of now and they are 9 and 5 years old. Autumn is 9 and is an orange belt and my boy Sayer just started two months ago.

Now I really believe that Aikido is "the way", however, I have a little background in Judo and system 5 karate and I have realized that unlike other arts you can't just take it for 6 months to a year and be able to defend yourself pretty good it seems to me that it could take like 15 years or so before you could use Aikido very well for self defense. I also question how it works against other types of attacks from more or different skilled people such as a boxer with quick jabs or the type karate attack were one never fully commits to the atemi like quick guarded strikes and kicks etc and does not try to grab you.

So I have been thinking for some time now, that it might benefit my kids to cross train in something else. I am thinking of Judo or BJJ in part because of Aikido's ties to Judo and BJJ is also an evolved form of Judo that seams to be similar in the way your taking advantage of your opponents mistakes etc. and the fact that most scraps end up on the ground. So what I am asking is this:

What do you think about this? Is this a good idea or bad one and why?

Pros and cons to cross training?

Judo or BJJ and why? Both ..Judo early and BJJ when they are older maybe?

All input welcome thanks
Sam
If you're worried about them being bullied then I'd teach them muay thai or karate. They need to be able to put down the bully before his mates get up the courage to jump in cuz other wise they're be in a six on one judo match.
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Old 12-16-2007, 07:34 PM   #28
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Re: Cross-Training my kids?

I may be alone in this, but I think there's something wrong if a parent sends a child to a martial arts school to learn self-defense. Either the parent is wrong about the threat to the child, and is responding inappropriately (by addressing a threat that does not exist)...or the parent is responding to a real threat, but IMO not in the right way. If a child -- remember, we're talking 9 or 5 years old here -- is threatened, it should not come down to that child's ability to fight in order to be safe. Parents, teachers and other responsible adults should be taking action; if they leave it for kids to fight it out among themselves, they're abdicating their responsibilities. Think it's a solution for your kid to learn to fight? Okay, but what if the (hypothetical) bigger, stronger kids who are bullying him/her also learn to fight? The bully wins, that's what. Any tool that your children can learn to use, the (hypothetical) bullies can learn to use too; therefore, this is an entirely inadequate solution.

I have serious reservations about children being taught martial arts for any reason. Dress it up however you like, you are teaching a child fighting skills, at an age where the lack the judgment to use these skills appropriately. It's thin ice at best, and when you do it out of the mindset of preparing your children to fight, IMO that's asking for trouble.
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Old 12-16-2007, 07:51 PM   #29
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Cross-Training my kids?

I think taught in the right way, with proper mentorship, and guidance, that martial arts are fine to teach to children.

Years ago I used to teach a karate program to a group of 7-10 year old "at risk" youth.

I worked with a team including a social worker.

These were kids that faced violence in the home, at school, and around the neighborhood. The fact was...the lived in a world of violence.

I think we did good teaching them values, how to be strong, and face conflict. That they had better alternatives that fighting. We role played alot about how to skillfully handly bullies and conflict.

Dr. Terrence Webster-Doyle with the Atrium society has a decent curriculum that covers just this.

Violence is a fact of life for many of us and our children sadly. We need to not stick our heads in the sand and pretend that it is not there.

Conversely, we should not be teaching them that punching and kicking is a way to solve problems of this nature.

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Old 12-16-2007, 08:26 PM   #30
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Re: Cross-Training my kids?

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
Violence is a fact of life for many of us and our children sadly. We need to not stick our heads in the sand and pretend that it is not there.
Violence was a fact of life for some of the at-risk youth you taught. It is not a fact of life for most suburban children. Furthermore, back to my earlier point: if it is a fact of the child's life, there are more effective and appropriate responses than teaching the child self-defense. If you send a child to a martial arts school to learn self-defense, but do nothing else to address the threat of violence in the child's life, that's like driving a car with no brakes and installing an extra-big airbag as a solution.
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Old 12-16-2007, 08:49 PM   #31
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Re: Cross-Training my kids?

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Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
Violence was a fact of life for some of the at-risk youth you taught. It is not a fact of life for most suburban children.
I couldn't disagree more.
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Old 12-16-2007, 09:02 PM   #32
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Re: Cross-Training my kids?

Mary,

Quote:
there are more effective and appropriate responses than teaching the child self-defense.
This is where we probably have a different view point in general on Martial Arts and budo arts in general.

I think they are a very poor and inefficient mechanism for teaching Self Defense, to kids, women, and anyone regardless of age.

For example, I personally have never, nor do I see myself teaching a women's self defense class using empty hand martial arts. I think most would walk away from my class feeling like I taught them stuff they already knew.

I think most of the Women's self defense classes give a false sense of security about what they will actually face in a violent encounter or rape.

Anyway, I can understand your concerns that we are sugar coating a violence and trying to turn it into something it is not.

Really isn't that the paradox of aikido?

If you honestly believe in the message and intent of aikido for adults...that is Peace and Harmony....Then why would you practice something that you would not like your kids to experience???

Again, I think budo in whatever form it comes in has little to do with self defense.

I do agree, if you are teaching it from that perspective or that emphasis, that you are sending the wrong message.

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Old 12-17-2007, 02:59 AM   #33
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Re: Cross-Training my kids?

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
I may be alone in this, but I think there's something wrong if a parent sends a child to a martial arts school to learn self-defense. Either the parent is wrong about the threat to the child, and is responding inappropriately (by addressing a threat that does not exist)...or the parent is responding to a real threat, but IMO not in the right way. If a child -- remember, we're talking 9 or 5 years old here -- is threatened, it should not come down to that child's ability to fight in order to be safe. Parents, teachers and other responsible adults should be taking action; if they leave it for kids to fight it out among themselves, they're abdicating their responsibilities. Think it's a solution for your kid to learn to fight? Okay, but what if the (hypothetical) bigger, stronger kids who are bullying him/her also learn to fight? The bully wins, that's what. Any tool that your children can learn to use, the (hypothetical) bullies can learn to use too; therefore, this is an entirely inadequate solution.

I have serious reservations about children being taught martial arts for any reason. Dress it up however you like, you are teaching a child fighting skills, at an age where the lack the judgment to use these skills appropriately. It's thin ice at best, and when you do it out of the mindset of preparing your children to fight, IMO that's asking for trouble.
Children should be given any and all skills they may require to make it through life. Sometimes a child may use his/her quick wit to get out of a situation. Sometimes quick witted children may need to use their skills in a fighting art to survive. Adopting the mindset that my child may use these skills for things other than self defense seems to me to be the failure of the parent. Most bullies that I dealt with in school didn't have any martial arts training,,just a reputation. I do agree that in certain circles, a child would be better off not using physical self defense, but use the resources of a school, community centre, local law enforcement etc to deal with an escalated situation. Otherwise, physical exercise and fighting skills (if needed) to boot. What's wrong with that. Especially when we have a continent filled with obese children. With regards to cross training, if the child is mature enough let them have it (if you can afford it, and it doesn't affect their grades).

Last edited by Joseph Madden : 12-17-2007 at 03:01 AM.
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Old 12-17-2007, 06:57 AM   #34
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Re: Cross-Training my kids?

I found in my childhood that getting a parent, or a teacher only made my life worse. Dropping that kid who was picking on me stopped all the bullys for good. To deal with bullying you have to think like a kid. What is one thing kids can't stand, kids who 'tell' on other kids to adults.

"Oh what, you need your mommy to protect you?"

If I ever have kids, they will be taught to walk away, until it's time to fight. And when it is time to fight, to leave no doubt in that kids mind that he was schooled.

- Don
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Old 12-17-2007, 07:06 AM   #35
Joseph Madden
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Re: Cross-Training my kids?

True Don. True.
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Old 12-17-2007, 11:56 AM   #36
Will Prusner
 
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Re: Cross-Training my kids?

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
Violence was a fact of life for some of the at-risk youth you taught. It is not a fact of life for most suburban children. Furthermore, back to my earlier point: if it is a fact of the child's life, there are more effective and appropriate responses than teaching the child self-defense. If you send a child to a martial arts school to learn self-defense, but do nothing else to address the threat of violence in the child's life, that's like driving a car with no brakes and installing an extra-big airbag as a solution.
I couldn't disagree more. Kid's fight. At least, healthy one's do. It's part of proper development. Look at nature, living beings on this planet fight to survive every day. Martial arts simply refine that basic instinct into a repeatable series of techniques, in order to give the one who trains an advantage over the one who doesn't. Who wants to give their kids less of an advantage in life? That, in my mind is irresponsible.

This kind of reasoning reminds me of the folks who claim that violence on tv, in movies and videogames is what makes society violent. But society was violent long before any of these things. It's a violent society, so it creates violent images in games, movies and on tv because that's what it likes to see. I don't think that it's good or bad, it's just an observation. It's also an observation that kids are going to fight regardless of training or not. The least we can do is teach them to do it correctly and maybe try to instill some good moral, ethical and spiritual principles at the same time.

I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration...

ART! - http://birdsbeaks.blogspot.com/
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Old 12-17-2007, 12:43 PM   #37
Ketsan
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Re: Cross-Training my kids?

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
I If a child -- remember, we're talking 9 or 5 years old here -- is threatened, it should not come down to that child's ability to fight in order to be safe.
But what if it does? Since we know it does happen does it make more sence to prepare the child for it or to say "It shouldn't happen" and let the child discover it does happen for itself?

Quote:
Think it's a solution for your kid to learn to fight? Okay, but what if the (hypothetical) bigger, stronger kids who are bullying him/her also learn to fight? The bully wins, that's what. Any tool that your children can learn to use, the (hypothetical) bullies can learn to use too; therefore, this is an entirely inadequate solution.
Ah the "He might be better trained than me so I'll just die" solution.
As my dad drummed into me: Winning the fight isn't as important as making sure they never want to fight you again.
The bully might be trained. Then again they might not, The opponent you might face is irrelvent, how you prepare to face them is all important. Bullies pick on weak people who aren't going to defend themselves, the point of training your child is to make sure they don't fall into that category.

Quote:
I have serious reservations about children being taught martial arts for any reason. Dress it up however you like, you are teaching a child fighting skills, at an age where the lack the judgment to use these skills appropriately. It's thin ice at best, and when you do it out of the mindset of preparing your children to fight, IMO that's asking for trouble.
Not really. The thing about children is that they believe everything you tell them. When my dad taught me he hammered into me a belief that I shouldn't use what he was teaching me unless I really had to. If you end up with a violent child there's only one place to look: the mirror.
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Old 12-17-2007, 12:51 PM   #38
Sam Turnage
 
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Re: Cross-Training my kids?

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
I may be alone in this, but I think there's something wrong if a parent sends a child to a martial arts school to learn self-defense. Either the parent is wrong about the threat to the child, and is responding inappropriately (by addressing a threat that does not exist)...or the parent is responding to a real threat, but IMO not in the right way. If a child -- remember, we're talking 9 or 5 years old here -- is threatened, it should not come down to that child's ability to fight in order to be safe. Parents, teachers and other responsible adults should be taking action; if they leave it for kids to fight it out among themselves, they're abdicating their responsibilities. Think it's a solution for your kid to learn to fight? Okay, but what if the (hypothetical) bigger, stronger kids who are bullying him/her also learn to fight? The bully wins, that's what. Any tool that your children can learn to use, the (hypothetical) bullies can learn to use too; therefore, this is an entirely inadequate solution.

I have serious reservations about children being taught martial arts for any reason. Dress it up however you like, you are teaching a child fighting skills, at an age where the lack the judgment to use these skills appropriately. It's thin ice at best, and when you do it out of the mindset of preparing your children to fight, IMO that's asking for trouble.
I could not disagree with this logic more. First of all thought out history Martial arts were developed and taught for not only self-defense but family, race, and nation etc. in both armed and unarmed hand to hand combat. Now I am well aware that different people take Martial arts for different reasons and benefits other than "self-defense". These other benefits are great and I welcome them too but for me learning any Martial art is 75% for self-defense. We could start a whole thread on the other benefits to learning a Martial art but the first things that come to mind for me would be better discipline, awareness, improved balance and flexibility, an understanding of center, chi and or ki, and most importantly learning how to fall or role without getting hurt. These skills later in there childhood and life will help them to have fewer accidents and injuries, also most likely making them more successful in anything they do in life especially sports if they choose to etc. So a just don't see why you wouldn't teach your kids martial arts.

Another thing, I am not worried about my kids getting bullied nor am I really worried about some little scrap that my 5 or 9 year old gets into on the playground but I am worried about the scrap they might get into at 17 or later in life. We are not teaching kids to fight, they already know how from instinct and TV etc and they are going to no matter what we do. Fights and fighting is human nature, giving your kids the knowledge to out fight, and or avoid a fight is just smart. Preventing kids from learning martial arts is not going to stop school fights anymore than taking guns away from law abiding citizens are going to stop crime and shootings.

"If we are wise, let us perpare for the worst."

George Washington
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Old 12-17-2007, 01:06 PM   #39
Pauliina Lievonen
 
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Re: Cross-Training my kids?

IME kids who do aikido tend have more self discipline than your average kid, and they seem to be less likely to end up in fights.

kvaak
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Old 12-17-2007, 03:47 PM   #40
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Cross-Training my kids?

Okay, here is the paradox for me, and it might sound like I am contradicting my previous post....

I do not agree that it is healthy or right for kids to experience violence. I have tried to keep my own kids from being exposed to violence for as long as I possibly can.

We don't have cable TV. We don't allow them to watch the news. It bothers me to go to restaurants and have stuff blasting on the tube that my kids should not see. I have a right I believe to not have my kids exposed to violence.

I personally do not watch alot of action films any more because of the violence that is in them. I personally think it also does me harm as an adult.

That said, I also have to realize that I cannot raise my kids in a vacuum!

It has been interesting. We don't allow toy guns in my house. I have finally relented on the whole sword/stick thiing some. The neigborhood kids would play "war" and my son always had to be the "medic" or something because I really don't like roleplaying games where you game is to kill people.

However, he and his friends play with sticks, and things, and after a while...it really becomes an issue.

"How long or how much to you try and prevent them from doing these things????"

At what point do you become fundamentalist and extreme?

By not allowing them to sort through issues of control, fear, and power are you actually going to do them harm, make them a "wierdo", or what not?

I don't have the answers, but I have grown to think it is inevitable that, at least boys, will play games of power. They will want to be wizards, soldiers, heros. they want to be strong, powerful, and influence power of things.

At least my non-violent, vegetarian, home-schooled son does!

He is aware of how we feel about violence. He understands the difference between fantasy and play. We don't allow any computer games where someone or something is hurt in the house. We don't watch it.

So, he plays with his friends and acts out stuff on a limited basis. We discuss it with him from time to time, making sure he is aware, and has compassion.

I am doing some bokken stuff with him now, and he is starting Judo.

I think it is important to accept that kids sometimes have to work through these issues. And what is important that we manage violence in a way that allows them to deal with it appropriately based on their growth and development.

What is not appropriate is to pretend that it does not exsist and to ignore it.

I think we tried this a while ago with sex education.

Now my daughter is 2. maybe it will be different for her! She already is into the princess and hello kitty thing! You try and raise them equally, but why they gravitate to boy and girl things...I don't know!!!

Anyway. I don't think martial arts can be harmful. What is important is that we don't delude our kids into thinking that it is something that it is not. I think this is Mary's concern...and it is mine as well. We should not be empowering our kids to think that hitting and kicking is a way to solve problems.

I never taught it this way to kids, but did find it was a constructive way to channel violence and let them work through their fears and concerns.

Maybe it is not for every kid, but for mine, I think it is the right path for now!

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Old 12-17-2007, 03:54 PM   #41
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Cross-Training my kids?

On another note, I was teaching the clinch to my son from about age 3 on. In Kindergarten he had a kid pushing him around on the playground, and kinda bullying him.

Well the got into it one day, he clinched up on the kid, and went down on top of him. They never fought, or nor was anyone hurt. ( I never taught him how to punch...only to clinch in a fight to avoid punches etc.)

Anyway, the kid was so overwhelmed by what happened that he never again tried to do anything. No one got hurt, and no feelings were hurt.

In fact they became friends.

When I asked him about the incident with the boy that he has having problems with, he said, "well he tried to push me, but I clinched him like you taught me and we fell down." He ran and told the teacher, but the other kids told her that he grabbed me first."

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Old 12-17-2007, 04:44 PM   #42
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Re: Cross-Training my kids?

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
On another note, I was teaching the clinch to my son from about age 3 on. In Kindergarten he had a kid pushing him around on the playground, and kinda bullying him.

Well the got into it one day, he clinched up on the kid, and went down on top of him. They never fought, or nor was anyone hurt. ( I never taught him how to punch...only to clinch in a fight to avoid punches etc.)

Anyway, the kid was so overwhelmed by what happened that he never again tried to do anything. No one got hurt, and no feelings were hurt.

In fact they became friends.

When I asked him about the incident with the boy that he has having problems with, he said, "well he tried to push me, but I clinched him like you taught me and we fell down." He ran and told the teacher, but the other kids told her that he grabbed me first."
Sounds like the judo defense. "Well he grabbed me, then in a fit or rage fell down, honest."

- Don
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Old 12-17-2007, 05:32 PM   #43
Qatana
 
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Re: Cross-Training my kids?

OK, lets homeschool our kids, isolate them from the media & the internet & send them to gender segregated colleges.
Won't they be surprised when they discover what the world is Really like.

I think kids Should study martial arts. Because its fun.

Along the way they will develop character, spirit, physical ability, self-confidence and strong, healthy bodies, and probably grow up to become the kind of person the nobody wants to attack.And they will be able to defend themselves if necessary.

Q
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Old 12-17-2007, 06:23 PM   #44
Ketsan
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Re: Cross-Training my kids?

Quote:
Don Magee wrote: View Post
I found in my childhood that getting a parent, or a teacher only made my life worse. Dropping that kid who was picking on me stopped all the bullys for good. To deal with bullying you have to think like a kid. What is one thing kids can't stand, kids who 'tell' on other kids to adults.

"Oh what, you need your mommy to protect you?"

If I ever have kids, they will be taught to walk away, until it's time to fight. And when it is time to fight, to leave no doubt in that kids mind that he was schooled.
Amen
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Old 12-17-2007, 07:42 PM   #45
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Cross-Training my kids?

Jo wrote:

Quote:
OK, lets homeschool our kids, isolate them from the media & the internet & send them to gender segregated colleges.
Won't they be surprised when they discover what the world is Really like.
Not sure what that really means. I can tell you that it does not apply to my son for sure. at 7 years old, he has been pretty much around the world, spent time in China, Poland, Czech Repbulic, went to a German School for 2 years (speaks German), and has a pretty appropriate level of exposure to how things work in the world for a 7 year old.

What he is not grappling with is adult situations an violence that is way above his pay grade.

He can tell you about the civil war. He can tell you about conflict and how it pretty much works.

He knows how rifled weapons work, and how dangerous they are because he has fired my M-4 with all my special stuff outfitted on it to kill the "bad guys". He has seen Ranger units, and special operations units train and understands that they do some pretty complex things that keep us safe.

Again, what he does not know is about the holocaust, about racial prejudice (although we are getting there at an appropriate level of education), he does not know about extreme hate and how mean and violent people in the world can be.

He does know about poor people, oppression, and that there are people in the world that do not have much. He has interacted with kids from other cultures and walks of life, and is not afraid of them, nor does he pity them. We have talked about compassion.

He gives up his old toys for Goodwill. He uses his own money to buy toys at Christmas time for a child his own age.

Not bad I think for a kid that leads a sheltered, home schooled life for the first 7 years of his life!

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Old 12-17-2007, 09:40 PM   #46
Marc Abrams
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Re: Cross-Training my kids?

Kevin:

I truly empathize with you on the difficulties in raising children. We have four kids: 30, 27, 24, 13. The trials over the years have been "interesting!" I, like you, have been considered a dinosaur as a parent, in comparison to the "other parents." I come from another perspective, as a psychologist and someone who spent most of his life in martial arts and fighting sports. We both share very similar concerns as to what our children are being exposed to, and when.

A number of years ago, my wife and I were on a scuba trip in a remote part of Mexico, near Belize. We met a family who had been living on a sailboat for several years, boat-schooling their children. Their daughter was 11 years old. It was jarring to see how she was an innocent 11 y/o girl who had not been overly exposed to the nonsense that they get exposed to in the NYC area. She was still a child. This was so healthy and refreshing to see and at the same time, it made me sad to think that this was what it took to allow a child to remain a child and not have to grow-up too quickly. Our society asks children to be too much like adults too soon. In terms of gender identity, aggressiveness, competitiveness, etc...

I have always insisted on certain basic tenets in my household. The most important, is that there may be no violence through word, or deed (that did not include fantasy play) in my house. Another is that people can express differences and agree to not agree, but violence is not an acceptable option under those circumstances. The violence that they were exposed to was talked about in terms of finding better ways to deal with situations. They understood that some friends and family who were L.E.'s and military had to deal with violence as part of their jobs. The children also got to know those people to see that they were kind, caring people who had tough jobs to do (as opposed to being viewed as violent people based upon chosen professions).

My children have all been exposed to very select martial arts teachers. Those teachers have always emphasized that martial arts was for self-defense and protection and never allowed for aggression. I have always been against exposing children to too much violence on tv, or even through martial arts for tot's programs. This type of exposure stylized violence in an unhealthy manner and sets-up the mindset of aggressive responses to conflicts. It is interesting that only my youngest has really shown a long-term interest and natural gift toward martial arts (my oldest boy is a naval reserves intelligence officer and up&comer at Dept. of Homeland Security and the physical contact was not for him- go figure). My youngest child (son) has been studying Karate for 8 years, and now finishing his first year of Aikido under me. He, of all of the children, displays the best control, composure and judgment when faced with potential conflicts of all four children. I truly believe that the martial arts that he has been exposed to has played a big role towards this positive development in his character.

My wife and I have always struggled with helping our children learn that freedom means the responsibility to have choices. Watching the choices that my children made/make during times of duress and conflicts have always been accurate barometers for me as to the nature of my children's character and moral compass. I would like to think that their exposure to excellent role-models in martial arts has helped them towards developing the character necessary to make good choices during difficult times.

Ushiro Sensei made a very powerful statement this summer when he said that it was better to spend three years looking for a good teacher than spending three years training with a bad teacher. With children, this is all the more important. Those early years are the foundations for the rest of their lives. Martial arts should hopefully instill in our children confidence to not have to resort to violence when faced with conflicts. It takes a good teacher to see that this lesson is learned. The proliferation of McDojo's selling their false wares to children and their parents leaves a bad taste in my mouth.They sell martial arts as effective conflict resolution and delude the parents and children that they are competent at protecting themselves.

Marc Abrams

ps.- I am now enjoying the role as a grandfather- IT IS SO MUCH EASIER THAN PARENTING!
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Old 12-17-2007, 09:40 PM   #47
Qatana
 
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Re: Cross-Training my kids?

We have a saying, in the religion that my ethnic group embraces.
"Never Forget"

What is going to happen when you r son is exposed to prejudice? When he is exposed to the hate and the meanness that most of humanity seems to have been practicing for however many thousand years.
He knows how a gun works but not that the reason for the gun's existence . He knows there is a military, obviously, but not the reason we have it?
He knows that people are hungry but not that there is enough food to go around, except that it is controlled by people who have no qualms about depriving starving people of food or medical care because of the almighty Profit.

We have to experience negativity in all its many aspects in order to rise above it. I am not doubting your son's open heart and generosity and commend you for encouraging this character. But that, combined with innocence, is , to me, a recipe for the kind of person who can get hurt, and hurt badly, when they are finally forced to confront cruelty and hate.

Its right there in Ecclesiastes.

Q
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"It is not wise to be incautious when confronting a little smiling bald man"'- Rule #1
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Old 12-17-2007, 10:27 PM   #48
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Cross-Training my kids?

I tend to try and let a 7 year old boy be a 7 year old boy. Contemporary society exposes kids to way too much before they have the emotional maturity to deal with things.

Ironically, I think providing kids a home where they can know and understand what unconditional love is all about, an environment where they can learn to empathize and learn to be compassionate, and caring is what helps and gives them the strength to deal with cruelty and hatred.

If the converse is watching MTV, watching CNN when snipers are taking people out in schools, going to schools with metal detectors, being bullied, dealing with drugs etc.

That is a better environment?

Obviously there is a middle road, and most kids in the U.S. are probably on it. Some lean more to one side or the other.

My leanings is to trying my best to provide my kids an environment of my choosing, one in which I think they will deal with issues and the world in a timely manner when they have the faculties, lessons, and developed the wisdom and rational to deal with them appropriately.

I think Rousseau had some very good thoughts a while ago concerning education. Let children play and take time to grow up, there is plenty of time to learn, and they will.

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Old 12-18-2007, 08:13 AM   #49
lbb
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Re: Cross-Training my kids?

I find it interesting that all those disagreeing with what they call my "logic" are male. With different perspectives, to be sure, but it's interesting to hear not just similar so-called "logic", but even similar phrasings. Somehow I don't believe it's because this POV you all are espousing is a self-evident truth.

Let me try this again. Think, please, just for a minute, about the situations in which you think a child might need self-defense. Think about it honestly. Once you've discarded however many of those situations that, on reflection, really could be solved by the child some other way, you're left with a number of other situations ranging from playground scuffles to serious bullying to stranger assault (which, I believe, is by far the least likely threat of violence to a child, particularly a suburban child) to assault by someone who is known and trusted (and whom the child is told by its parents to trust and obey). In each and every one of those situations, I assert, to teach a child self-defense as the solution is like spitting on a fire. It might put out the fire...if it's a very small one. But in all cases, the fire could have and should have been prevented -- by adults. In nearly all cases, it is beyond the child's resources to solve the problem comprehensively. And yet parents march their children off to dojos for the warm and fuzzy feeling it gets them, that now their child will learn "self-defense", and gosh, at the same time will learn this "self-discipline" thing, and all those other good buzzwords. They can almost never articulate exactly what they mean by these things, they cannot describe the problem in detail or provide a sensible and logical descrption of how they think martial arts training would solve it. Maybe the sad truth is that the "problem" parents are trying to solve is their own feeling of discomfort, and if an unsupported belief that your child is learning "self-defense" will alleviate that feeling of discomfort...then the problem is solved.

Lest people continue to misunderstand my position, I'm not completely opposed to kids training martial arts. For the most part, I think it doesn't do much harm and may do some good, much as any socializing physical activity would. What I am against are unrealistic parental expectations, and parental failures to grapple with either real threats to a child's safety or their own unrealistic fears of same.
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Old 12-18-2007, 08:36 AM   #50
DonMagee
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Re: Cross-Training my kids?

I still think of the years I lived in fear of bullys, without friends, being picked on and beat up every single day. And how the teachers and my parents made it worse by talking to those kids parents, putting those kids in detention, and having 'sit down talks' with us. Had I had known to just put the hurting on that first kid, I would of had a happier child hood. Instead it took me till 7th grade to figure that out. Had I not figured out the solution, I'd probably been one of those kids who went terribly wrong. All the consoling, therapy, teacher intervention, and parent intervention did absolutly nothing to solve my problems, and made everything worse. Plus it did it at a time where everyone was developing faster then I was, was bigger than I was, and while I was trying to learn exactly what was going on with my place in the world. A lot more problems could of been solved a lot faster with a good quick punch to the nose.

If I ever have kids, I will teach them to knock down bullys first, and take the punishment that goes with it. And not be sorry for what they do to solve the situation.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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