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Old 01-24-2006, 08:37 AM   #76
IlyasDexter
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Re: Religion and Aikido

Some words from the Sufis:

"Describe an existance as you will; if you wish,you can say it is creature; if you wish, you can say it is God; and if you wish, you can say it is God-creature; or else, if you wish, you can say that it isn't God in every aspect and that it isn't creature in every aspect; or yet again you can speak of perplexity." IBN ARABI

" 'I' and 'you' are but the lattices,
In the niches of a lamp,
Through which the One Light shines.
'I' and 'you' are the veil
Between heaven and earth;
Lift this veil and you will see
No longer the bond of sects and creeds.
When 'I' and 'you' don't exist,
What is mosque, what is synagogue?
What is the Temple of Fire?" SA'D AL-DIN MAHMUD
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Old 01-24-2006, 11:53 AM   #77
crbateman
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Re: Religion and Aikido

Would this be a bad time to suggest that the only real truth is BEER?
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Old 01-24-2006, 12:28 PM   #78
Mark Freeman
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Re: Religion and Aikido

Quote:
Clark Bateman wrote:
Would this be a bad time to suggest that the only real truth is BEER?
I'll have a pint of Guiness Clark, thanks for offering

Mark

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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Old 01-24-2006, 07:43 PM   #79
crbateman
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Re: Religion and Aikido

Cheers, mate!
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Old 01-29-2006, 05:08 AM   #80
malc anderson
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Re: Religion and Aikido

Hi ya, I am not religious but there's no reason not to have a religion and still be an Aikidoka, I have been practicing Raj Yoga for 30 yrs and Lee and Yang Tai Chi forms for 7 yrs, my perspective is that O'Sensei was practicing meditation, we only have to read ‘The Art of Peace' to understand that physical techniques were not the only things that the Great Man used,'
10
All the priciples of heaven and earth are living inside you. Life itself is the truth, and this will never change. Everything in heaven and earth breathes. Breath is the thread that ties creation together. When the myriad variations in the universal breath can be sensed, the individual techniques of the Art of Peace are born but as with Religions when the master dies the students start to have there own ideas about the way forward for their particular system. This has happened again and again then arguments begin
11
Consider the ebb and flow of the tide. When waves come to strike the shore, they crest and fall, creating a sound. your breath should follow the same pattern, absorbing the entire universe in your belly with each inhalation. Know that we all have access to four treasures: the energy of the sun and moon, the breath of heaven, the breath of earth, and the ebb and flow of the tide.
This is a standard Yoga technique, the Pranayarma . this is fundamental to accessing the inner realms. Until we have entered in and experienced Kensho we will never truly understand what the Great Man's perspective was. Aikido has, as with many religions started to split into different groups because the captain of the ship has gone, arguments as to the course have begun. Although it seems that even during Osensei's life time students couldn't grasp his teaching, i.e.
Several times in his final years Morihei sadly reflected," I've given my life to opening the path of Aikido but when I look back no one is following me."
Once an American disciple said to Morihei," I really want to do your Aikido." Morihei replied," How unusual! Everyone else wants to do their own Aikido."
So we must ask what is this extra dimension that to day seems lacking? In the past The Masters who came to teach Love to the world came across the same difficulties as O'Sensei and when they died religions were created. We only have to look at the Aiki beer drinkers association to see that the inner realms are not understood i.e.
14
Contemplate the workings of this world, listen to the words of the wise, and take all that is good as your own. With this as your base, open your own door to truth. Do not overlook the truth that is right before you. Study how water flows in a valley stream, smoothly and freely between the rocks. Also learn from holy books and wise people. Everything - even mountains, rivers, plants and trees - should be your teacher.
The Sufi Poets of Love, which Llyas tried to give voice to, were experiencing the inner realms, and their words are like water in the desert to a seeker of truth. To enter and experience these inner realms will take Love, a love of union with the great power of Life itself, because intellect can only process things it knows and our everyday life is totally controlled by this ‘best friend' and ‘worst enemy' it has become the barrier to our true inner selves i.e.
‘ Aikido is truly Budo - a martial Way - rather than simply a bujutsu (martial technique) or bugei (martial art). When martial training is undertaken not simply as a means to conquer others, but as a means to refine and perfect the self, this can be said to be Budo. The famous motto of O-Sensei, "Masakatsu Agatsu", contains the essence of the spirit of Aikido: "True victory is victory over the self."
Llyas do you think that the ‘Kami' and ‘the Beloved' could be the same thing? I'll keep this short and leave with quotes from a Sufi master and two from the ‘Art of Peace'
‘The whole world is a marketplace for Love, For naught that is, from Love remains remote. The Eternal Wisdom made all things in Love. On Love they all depend, to Love all turn. The earth, the heavens, the sun, the moon, the stars The center of their orbit find in Love. By Love are all bewildered, stupefied, Intoxicated by the Wine of Love.
From each, Love demands a mystic silence. What do all seek so earnestly? "Tis Love.
Love is the subject of their inmost thoughts, In Love no longer "Thou" and "I" exist,
For self has passed away in the Beloved. Now will I draw aside the veil from Love,
And in the temple of mine inmost soul Behold the Friend, Incomparable Love.
He who would know the secret of both worlds Will find that the secret of them both is Love'. Jehaladin Rumi
29
All life is a manifestation of the spirit, the manifestation of love. And the Art of Peace is the purest form of that principle. A warrior is charged with bringing a halt to all contention and strife. Universal love functions in many forms; each manifestation should be allowed free expression. The Art of Peace is true democracy
30
Each and every master, regardless of the era or place, heard the call and attained harmony with heaven and earth. There are many paths leading to the top of Mount Fuji, but there is only one summit - Love.
I hope that the modern day Aikidokas will start to look inside and try to find ‘Kensho' so Aikido doesn't be come just another Martial art. Masakatsu Agatsu ! malc.
98
Cast off limiting thoughts and return to true emptiness. Stand in the midst of the Great Void. This is the secret of the Way of a Warrior
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Old 01-29-2006, 08:39 AM   #81
Ali B
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Re: Religion and Aikido

Quote:
" I've given my life to opening the path of Aikido but when I look back no one is following me."
Says it all for me really...

Light n love
Ali
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Old 02-08-2006, 04:09 AM   #82
Mark Freeman
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Re: Religion and Aikido

Hi Malcom,

A good post with many quoted wise words from different masters, but I am intrigued to find out more about:-
Quote:
We only have to look at the Aiki beer drinkers association to see that the inner realms are not understood
What / who are you talking about?

Cheers
Mark

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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Old 02-09-2006, 10:15 AM   #83
Counsel
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Re: Religion and Aikido

Quote:
Mark Uttech wrote:
catholic aikido is similar to catholic gardening. you still have to do the work.
Yikes! Depth to the Discussion.

Two sayings come to mind:

1. When the solution is simple, God is answering. -- Albert Einstein;

2. When the solution is difficult, God is watching how we answer. -- Counsel

Einstein...what a mind. I'd love to have seen him on the mat...

Counsel
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Old 02-09-2006, 10:33 AM   #84
Mark Freeman
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Re: Religion and Aikido

Quote:
James Taylor wrote:
Yikes! Depth to the Discussion.

Two sayings come to mind:

1. When the solution is simple, God is answering. -- Albert Einstein;

2. When the solution is difficult, God is watching how we answer. -- Counsel

Einstein...what a mind. I'd love to have seen him on the mat...

Counsel
Hi James,
Why would Einstein have any advantage at aikido? often the intellect is the biggest obstacle to progress in aiki.
Maybe you thought he'd look good in gi and hakama?

regards,
Mark

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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Old 02-25-2006, 06:53 AM   #85
malc anderson
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Re: Religion and Aikido

Hi ya Mark, What did I mean ? I am fairly certain you know, but as you asked, you are one of the A.B.D.A. as you are an Aikidoka, you drink beer, and you have an associate. I wrote this because this is the spiritual part of this site and people who really want to practice the spiritual side of Aikido may come for advice, and with respect to everything the founder stood for we should lead them a least to ‘the Art of Peace', so that they may learn more about Satori and achieving this life changing wonder that lies in the heart of all us. The struggle for Enlightenment/Kensho is the only reason we are a live.
"The Art of Peace begins with you. Work on yourself and your appointed task in the Art of Peace. Everyone has a spirit that can be refined, a body that can be trained in some manner, a suitable path to follow. You are here for no other purpose than to realize your Inner Divinity and Manifest your Innate Enlightenment. Foster peace in your own life and then apply the Art to all that you encounter"
Some people take this to be very important, and for me the only part that I can do. I have tried to walk this path for 30 yrs and it makes me try to care for other travellers on the Way, it is a very difficult path, far more difficult than practicing physical techniques, and I was just giving the other side of the coin.
Meditation is about direct experience, not guesses, ideas, concepts, it's a shame Meditation is not used more in Aikido, it would require a least as much if not more time than people give to the physical side of this wonderful art you are so lucky to be able to do. Then what O'Sensei was trying to pass on would be really understood. All the best Malc
" It is the supreme state of Aikido to be one with the Spirit of the Universe. For this reason it is called the Budo of Unification and Oneness".
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Old 07-22-2006, 11:33 AM   #86
Xamien
 
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Ki Symbol Re: Religion and Aikido

Quote:
Mark Freeman wrote:
Hi James,
Why would Einstein have any advantage at aikido? often the intellect is the biggest obstacle to progress in aiki.
Maybe you thought he'd look good in gi and hakama?

regards,
Mark
He was an intellectual in many things, but his words illustrate an instinctual approach to the way he viewed the universe. He could be wonderfully eloquent in his theories in how the universe work, but the underlying feeling in all of his work was that while it was fun and games to figure out how it worked, the true beauty lay in being able to appreciate just what we were looking at.
For what it's worth, I think the man (if he had ever been physically inclined) would have had beautiful Aikido.

I already mentioned in my introduction to the forums that I'm a Buddhist, but this is a more appropriate place to expound on what it means for me as a Buddhist practicing Aikido. Put simply, it is a spiritual experience for me. The reason for this is that I've been studying martial arts all of my life and have always pondered the question of what it meant to be a true warrior. This naturally spilled over into my spiritual questions and seemed to be naturally tied up with spiritual matters, anyway.
At first, I thought a true warrior was the natural embodiment of pure skill, such that that level was standpoint of finally acheiving a mystical status. I didn't know what lay beyond that point of mystical status, just that I didn't understand it. Such a warrior in my mind was exempt from moral considerations. A grey area where moral relativity and all its problems became absolutely irrelevant.
As my learning from social interactions and myself progressed, it came to invoke the moral obligations and finding out what the right morals were. What determined you were a true warrior was in the righteousness of the cause. That quickly gave way to disgust, however, in the face of things like poor sportsmanship and the incredibly cruel and nasty things I'd witnessed people do to each other. All desire for what I deemed glorious battle flew from me. Not surprisingly, this coincided with my period of spiritual disenchantment. I started to explore the mystical side of things but that became a dead-end. I left the martial side of things dormant for a while. When I finally read about Buddhism and started attending a local temple, this finally revitalized my search. It led to self-conflicts over the continuation of my study of martial arts, but I resolved them with the resolution that I would find a way to make it work such that my skills could leave me and my opponent unharmed. "Those who have to fight have already lost." is an important creed to me.
It's the reason why I am in complete agreement with O Sensei. It's the reason why coming to Aikido is like coming home to me. It's the reason why it is so spiritual for me, because it's an incredibly pure expression of my spirituality and so many of my other principles in which I've come to believe. Furthermore, I've witnessed myself the healing power of love in its various forms. I have no words for it, nor has anyone had or ever will have words for it.

If you want to be technical, you could call me a combatant. Certainly, I know different ways to cause harm and death. It's my conscious will and decision to embrace absolute nonviolence that I feel makes me a non-combatant. Among my precepts is to not kill and my conviction is such that I will willingly and gladly die first before I ever willingly take another life. I would sooner die myself to preserve the life of another, the chance of another person to learn and grow to know the beauty I've discovered for myself.

In Deep Gassho and

Xam
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Old 07-22-2006, 08:16 PM   #87
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Re: Religion and Aikido

I came across this article on another website. I'm not sure whether to laugh or feel sorry for this person.
http://www3.telus.net/st_simons/arm07.htm

It basically argues that taekwondo and other martial arts
Quote:
are a Trojan Horse in the House of the Lord, eroding the spiritual barriers between Zen Buddhism and the Christian Gospel, and potentially leading vulnerable children and teens into the early stages of eastern occultism. As a result of this research, our Christian School Board decided to no longer offer Taekwondo or other Martial Arts. The good news about religious syncretism is that it is never too late to repent and start afresh, serving one Master and one Master alone, Jesus Christ our Lord
I guess when we meditate we're suposed to be thinking about God and not clearing our minds.

With Aikido's heavy spiritual emphasis I figured it (we) would be a BIG target to religious zealots like this author.
I'm hoping people like this are few and far between.

If you're hungry, keep moving.
If you're tired, keep moving.
If you value you're life, keep moving.

You don't own what you can't defend
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Old 07-23-2006, 06:02 AM   #88
RoyK
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Re: Religion and Aikido

Quote:
Grant Wagar wrote:
I came across this article on another website. I'm not sure whether to laugh or feel sorry for this person.
http://www3.telus.net/st_simons/arm07.htm

It basically argues that taekwondo and other martial arts


I guess when we meditate we're suposed to be thinking about God and not clearing our minds.

With Aikido's heavy spiritual emphasis I figured it (we) would be a BIG target to religious zealots like this author.
I'm hoping people like this are few and far between.
I love it how religion allows people to dispel anything they don't like. I bet that person who wrote it got his ass kicked on the mat.

"Those who promise us paradise on earth never produced anything but a hell" - Karl Popper.
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Old 07-23-2006, 03:32 PM   #89
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Re: Religion and Aikido

Quote:
Grant Wagar wrote:
I came across this article on another website. I'm not sure whether to laugh or feel sorry for this person.
http://www3.telus.net/st_simons/arm07.htm
It basically argues that taekwondo and other martial arts
Quote:
a Trojan Horse in the House of the Lord, eroding the spiritual barriers between Zen Buddhism and the Christian Gospel, and potentially leading vulnerable children and teens into the early stages of eastern occultism. As a result of this research, our Christian School Board decided to no longer offer Taekwondo or other Martial Arts. The good news about religious syncretism is that it is never too late to repent and start afresh, serving one Master and one Master alone, Jesus Christ our Lord
I guess when we meditate we're suposed to be thinking about God and not clearing our minds.
It is exceedingly sad what poor theology does to people.

"We need to be reminded, as the Hebrew prophets insisted, that it is much easier to worship God than to do His will."
Dom Aelred Graham, "Zen Catholicism."

As to aikido and martial arts in the true spirit of budo -- every attack I become able to redeem to better purpose is in the pursuit of His Will.

It is God in whom I live and move and have my being. The task of Zen is no more than to discover my original nature. How can Zen thus be anything but a path toward God? "I AM who am." To think anything else in the context of Christianity is to be merely superstitious and to betray deep ignorance of one's own religion.

That Zen says nothing about God is of no consequence. "What God actually is always remains hidden from us; and this is the highest knowledge we can have of God in this life, that we know Him to be above every thought we are able to think of him." St. Thomas Aquinas, De Veritate, 2, 1, 9. Thus, truly clearing our minds, even of the most profound thoughts of God, is the most profound contemplation of God conceivable. As Lao-tse and many Zen roshi's since would have it -- "Those who know, do not say; those who say, do not know."

As a suitable antidote to such nonsense, I heartily recommend, BTW, this website for the Morning Star Zendo:

http://kennedyzen.tripod.com/

At the bottom of the page, check out the statement made to Kennedy Roshi (White Plum lineage) who is also a Jesuit priest of the Roman Catholic Church, by his Dharma teacher, Yamada Koun Roshi

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 07-23-2006, 04:09 PM   #90
Mark Freeman
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Re: Religion and Aikido

Quote:
Erick Mead wrote:
As Lao-tse and many Zen roshi's since would have it -- "Those who know, do not say; those who say, do not know."
This saying is the ultimate "thread killer", thanks Erick!

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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Old 07-23-2006, 06:14 PM   #91
dps
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Re: Religion and Aikido

Quote:
Mark Freeman wrote:
This saying is the ultimate "thread killer", thanks Erick!
Ultimate thread killer, hmmmm lets see if it works on another thread.

Last edited by dps : 07-23-2006 at 06:17 PM.
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Old 12-06-2007, 11:47 AM   #92
Paul Milburn
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Re: Religion and Aikido

I am a christian and am hoping to become a Catholic Priest. I have learned to reconcile a good degree of my faith with my aikido, although I find that some aspects dont lend to blending very well. I think aikido is very self focussed (ie. self development) whereas true religion is God focussed, as it should be. I think Aikido and even O'Sensei himself would claim only to be a yellow belt when it comes to the Almighty!
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