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Old 11-15-2007, 10:51 PM   #26
Infantryman1990
Location: Plano, Texas
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 10
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Re: Knee Dislocation and Aikido practise

i hurt my knee and didn't get it treated, was never the same.

then i had knee surgery and it took me out for six months but i WAS able to come back.

When I was young, 6 months felt like a lifetime. . . now, I see six months is the smallest price to pay when a lifetime can last 80 years.

Do what's right for your body. aikido isnt' going anywhere.

--
Ryan Riggs
Plano, Texas

Currently on the disabled list.
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Old 11-16-2007, 01:53 AM   #27
Nikopol
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 96
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Re: Knee Dislocation and Aikido practise

Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote: View Post
Reply to last poster, Chris, who is w/o lateral meniscus cartilage.

Many folks who have missing meniscus end up with an imbalance in how the femur rests on the lower leg bone, which eventually leads to osteoarthritis at the lower end of the femur, as well as sort of throwing all the other support structures into misalignment. We are able to stay active and do well, but.....

...seiza and seated technique place incredible stresses on the internal workings of the knee and I humbly suggest you consider yourself too high risk to incorporate them into your training.
this 'suggestion' should be taken with a grain of salt.

The amount of time you are going to spend doing suwariwaza is not going to add up to many hours; driving a car or even walking, will do more long-term damage, looking at the big picture.

Some of us who have actually had surgical removal of the meniscus, would rather advise you to exercise a little caution, and give your body proper care and attention, so that you will be able to recover, return to Aikido, and be healthier and in less discomfort than if you had quit.

Anyone who has had meniscus trimming or removal should be considering ways to rebuild the cartilage, through diet and supplements.

After a general injury to a joint you need to focus on incremental restoration of the integrity of the joint. If surgery is not required, or has been completed, it's time to start. Like any fitness regime, you will see the results in time.

Don't be discouraged if someone does a google search and comes on like an expert ready to turn you away from getting better.

Bodies do heal, and you as the occupant can help.

Last edited by Nikopol : 11-16-2007 at 02:03 AM.
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Old 11-16-2007, 02:22 AM   #28
Nikopol
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 96
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Re: Knee Dislocation and Aikido practise

Sorry for the bump,

Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote: View Post
Many folks who have missing meniscus end up with an imbalance in how the femur rests on the lower leg bone, which eventually leads to osteoarthritis at the lower end of the femur, as well as sort of throwing all the other support structures into misalignment. We are able to stay active and do well, but.....
If in fact, Janet has had surgery on the meniscus I apologize for
assuming she had not.

but.....

Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote: View Post
...seiza and seated technique place incredible stresses on the internal workings of the knee..
Only if you are crap at suwariwaza.

I will dissapear now and not be back. If anyone needs encouragement to aget through their rehab feel free to PM me.
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Old 11-16-2007, 12:23 PM   #29
Janet Rosen
 
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Re: Knee Dislocation and Aikido practise

Hi, Vincent. No problem. Room for many perspectives. And I hope you don't disappear!

I'm a RN who has worked in acute rehab AND a person who has had 3 knee surgeries following an aikido training accident. I try not to generalize just from personal experience, but also take into account many interviews I've done w/ orthopedists, athletic trainers, and physical therapists specifically on risk factors.

It is very true as you say that "daily living" on a missing or partly missing meniscus, in itself does promote uneven wear and tear.

And it is also true that there have been many people who come back, slowly, from worse injuries and ailments than torn meniscus, to do very active and athletic aikido. The ability to heal in the face of naysaying doctors (and my cautions... heheheheh) is astonishing and inspiring.

So, my role here is to be a voice of caution. There are dojos that do a significant amount of time training in suwariwaza and it does put incredible internal stresses on the knee. If a person w/o a prior meniscus problem can suffer a spontaneous tear from getting up from seiza or from going into lotus position (I have heard of more than one case of each of these) then I will continue to caution that suwariwaza is a high risk activity for people with prior knee injuries.

Should none of us/them DO suwariwaza? No, it is an invididual decision. But it should be an informed one.

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 11-19-2007, 05:31 PM   #30
Tijani1150
 
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Re: Knee Dislocation and Aikido practise

Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote: View Post
So, my role here is to be a voice of caution. There are dojos that do a significant amount of time training in suwariwaza and it does put incredible internal stresses on the knee. If a person w/o a prior meniscus problem can suffer a spontaneous tear from getting up from seiza or from going into lotus position (I have heard of more than one case of each of these) then I will continue to caution that suwariwaza is a high risk activity for people with prior knee injuries.

Should none of us/them DO suwariwaza? No, it is an invididual decision. But it should be an informed one.
What about Shiko Ho Janet I take it its as bad as suwariwaza right? anyways I will have my MRI this evening I pray nothing is torn.
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Old 11-19-2007, 08:09 PM   #31
Janet Rosen
 
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Re: Knee Dislocation and Aikido practise

Ahmed, best of luck tonight!!!
The best adviser will be your own doc and rehab team.
Hoping the test is a-ok and you can just do a nice slow rehab back to form.

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 12-05-2007, 01:45 AM   #32
Nikopol
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 96
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Smile Re: Knee Dislocation and Aikido practise

Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote: View Post
Hi, Vincent. No problem. Room for many perspectives. And I hope you don't disappear!

I'm a RN who has worked in acute rehab AND a person who has had 3 knee surgeries following an aikido training accident. I try not to generalize just from personal experience, but also take into account many interviews I've done w/ orthopedists, athletic trainers, and physical therapists specifically on risk factors.

It is very true as you say that "daily living" on a missing or partly missing meniscus, in itself does promote uneven wear and tear.

And it is also true that there have been many people who come back, slowly, from worse injuries and ailments than torn meniscus, to do very active and athletic aikido. The ability to heal in the face of naysaying doctors (and my cautions... heheheheh) is astonishing and inspiring.

So, my role here is to be a voice of caution. There are dojos that do a significant amount of time training in suwariwaza and it does put incredible internal stresses on the knee. If a person w/o a prior meniscus problem can suffer a spontaneous tear from getting up from seiza or from going into lotus position (I have heard of more than one case of each of these) then I will continue to caution that suwariwaza is a high risk activity for people with prior knee injuries.

Should none of us/them DO suwariwaza? No, it is an invididual decision. But it should be an informed one.
Hey Janet,

Am back, was actually kind of frazzled and busy as there was major testing at my dojo. I'm glad you didn't take offense at my remarks! I was just looking at your website, and as a fellow New Yorker and artist was pleased with what I saw, and read about your knee damage. ACL... that's one I have managed to avoid.

Anyways living in Japan I suppose I have more opportunity to rehabilitate my seza, having tatami at home, so I just want to let people know that they can do it, but by all means with caution and common sense.

Shikoho, Seiza and Suwariwaza, the dreaded S3 are not ruled out for post-injury, but never try to work through the pain. Work on your Seiza in a hot jacuzzi. As a veteran of knee damage, we now have incentive to learn to do the S3 correctly... If they are causing pain, bow out. They are not meant to hurt if done correctly. In shikoho, try the trick of pausing for a fraction of second each time you advance a 'step'... it should not be visible but will help avoid new injuries.

Peace all!
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