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Old 11-02-2007, 09:06 AM   #51
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Re: Aikido is 99% strikes and only 1% preparation.

Quote:
Don Magee wrote: View Post
It's all well in good to learn how to develop power. I'm sure some people can hit in odd ways that hurt a lot. But I have to point at two things.

1) As others have said, has he killed anyone with it? If not, then it is only speculation that he has developed a 1 shot 1 kill blow.
IMO, #1 is kind of a silly argument. There have been instances in real life of people killed by one punch. And, yes, in most of those instances, the major damage was done by the fall. However, in a few, it was the punch that killed.

Quick search:http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?se...gle&id=5273162

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Don Magee wrote: View Post
2) Was it a static strike? All demos seem to be like this. I can punch, kick, throw, slam, etc much much harder when you just stand there then when you are moving. Can he demonstrate this strike against a defending partner? Even a you try to block I'll try to punch type situation. I've found that most 'internal' artists I've met (which is admittedly very few) have been unable to do any of this while trying to move and defend.
I have met a few people who not only had the power as George Ledyard stated, but they also have the ability to do this in a dynamic environment. Or as you note, demonstrate against a defending partner.

Mark
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Old 11-02-2007, 09:14 AM   #52
Timothy WK
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Re: Aikido is 99% strikes and only 1% preparation.

Also, I think some people are looking at this too narrowly. Daito-ryu always assumes that combatants are wearing knives/swords. Whether I throw you and break your neck, or whether I lock you up while I draw my blade, I've effectively "ended" the fight in one move. I don't think the idea of "atemi" excludes such measures.

Look up that video of Kondo from the Aiki Expo where he's performing Ippon-Dori (sorta like Ikkyo against a sword). There's an "atemi" to the ribs where he pulls his shoto and stabs the guy.

Last edited by Timothy WK : 11-02-2007 at 09:22 AM.

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Old 11-02-2007, 09:20 AM   #53
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Re: Aikido is 99% strikes and only 1% preparation.

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Don Magee wrote: View Post
The difference is we can find lots of examples of knockouts and limb breaks, but no examples of one punch one kill.
About ten years ago A senior student of a certain teacher I know was going to dinner with his wife in Venice Calif. When they pulled into the parking lot there were two men on a bike in front of them and they got into a disagreement over a parking spot. The Aikidoka tried to de-escalate the confrontation. He did not identify himself as a Aikidoka. He was with his wife, calm and peaceful, and tried his very best to smooth things over. One of the men sucker punched him right in the throat hard enough to collapse his larnyx (sorry spelling) and he died.The Police report noted that the assailent did have a Martial Art background in various desciplines.

One Punch One Kill.

This murder was commited in public over a parking spot.

I have a ton of examples of one punch one kill. Heres another...

A MMA guy I know and a close friend fought a regional match a few years ago and hit someone so hard in the temple they suffered a seizure on the mat and died in the hospital the next day. he still teaches MMA but will never fight in the ring again

One Punch One Kill.

Dude...You need to get out more.

Do not underestimate the power of one punch.

Bowing down to you Don.

William Hazen
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Old 11-02-2007, 09:31 AM   #54
David Orange
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Re: Aikido is 99% strikes and only 1% preparation.

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Basia Halliop wrote: View Post
I think that brilliant though he may have been in some ways, modesty was not his strong point .
Basia,

Ueshiba Sensei was talking not about himself but about his art, which he had learned from Sokaku Takeda. Saying that the empty-hand techniques are "based on the sword" is often misunderstood because of the fact that sword arts "strike" while most people believe that aikido is 99% arm-twisting and throws. The fact is that the first way that aikido is based on the sword is that it contains one-strike killing techniques, just like sword techniques. That's what the tegatana (sword-hand) is really about and that kind of strike is at the root of aikido's emergence from sword technique. Everything else is flowering off the root. And nothing can be understood from the flowers if we don't understand the root.

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Basia Halliop wrote: View Post
And if he really believed it himself then I guess he just decided to pass on an empty shell of the art to his followers??
Not at all. There are many photographs of O-Sensei showing this technique. He did pass it to many of his followers--to Mochizuki Sensei, certainly. It's not such a big secret, but it's not really the kind of thing that should be taught from the beginning...

Best to you.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

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Old 11-02-2007, 10:01 AM   #55
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Re: Aikido is 99% strikes and only 1% preparation.

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Mark Murray wrote: View Post
IMO, #1 is kind of a silly argument. There have been instances in real life of people killed by one punch.

Quick search:http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?se...gle&id=5273162
Truyly pertinent to this discussion. Not to mention "Boom-Boom" Mancini's killing of a Korean boxer in the ring--not with one punch, but with those big puffy gloves on his hands...

And pointing back to the Jena 6 thread, it's pretty ridiculous to minimize the danger to the kid who was first knocked unconscious, then kicked repeatedly in the head. There's a real reason that was called "attempted murder".

Also, I've heard of kids being killed in TKD tournaments--one from a spinning back kick to the chest, that stopped his heart. Another kid was killed when he was hit in the chest by a softball and his heart was stopped.

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Mark Murray wrote: View Post
I have met a few people who not only had the power as George Ledyard stated, but they also have the ability to do this in a dynamic environment. Or as you note, demonstrate against a defending partner.
And if applied correctly, aikido delivers the strike in a "closing" situation, as the attacker moves forcefully toward you and you move quickly toward him, so the force of the strike can be multiplied.

Best to you.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

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Old 11-02-2007, 10:04 AM   #56
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Re: Aikido is 99% strikes and only 1% preparation.

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William Hazen wrote: View Post
One of the men sucker punched him right in the throat hard enough to collapse his larnyx (sorry spelling) and he died.
That's why I always cringe when I see aikidoka stand in place and let someone grab their lapel. If the attacker can grab your lapel, he can strike you in the throat or the heart or solar plexus, or he can grab you by the throat!

That's where leading begins, but I see people stand there and let the attacker grab their lapel before they start to move...

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

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Old 11-02-2007, 10:15 AM   #57
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Re: Aikido is 99% strikes and only 1% preparation.

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David Orange wrote: View Post
That's why I always cringe when I see aikidoka stand in place and let someone grab their lapel. If the attacker can grab your lapel, he can strike you in the throat or the heart or solar plexus, or he can grab you by the throat!

That's where leading begins, but I see people stand there and let the attacker grab their lapel before they start to move...

David
One of my guys ran into an agutsuki with his chin up and his throat swelled up and he couldn't swallow for several days. It could have been more serious.
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Old 11-02-2007, 10:40 AM   #58
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Re: Aikido is 99% strikes and only 1% preparation.

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One of my guys ran into an agutsuki with his chin up and his throat swelled up and he couldn't swallow for several days. It could have been more serious.
Mr. Alex Marshall, of Birmingham (creator of Akayama Ryu--See Mark Barlow) innoculated me against leaving the throat open many years ago. He would get you by the throat in a very casual movement. People might think they would have some response to this technique, but it's amazing the pacifying effect he could have on you when his gnarly little old fingers got a grip on your windpipe!

Everyone I saw it happen to behaved right away!

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

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Old 11-02-2007, 11:23 AM   #59
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Re: Aikido is 99% strikes and only 1% preparation.

So we are using freakish accidents as proof of the ability to develop skill that will reliably kill with a single punch?

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 11-02-2007, 11:28 AM   #60
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Re: Aikido is 99% strikes and only 1% preparation.

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So we are using freakish accidents as proof of the ability to develop skill that will reliably kill with a single punch?
No...we are using freakish accidents as examples of people who were killed by single strikes, sometimes apparently inconsequential strikes. Someone else gave some examples of people who continued to fight after being mortally wounded. It can go either way.

But how do you explain Morihei Ueshiba's statement that aikido kills the attacker with a single blow? Why would he have said that if there were nothing to it?

Best to you.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

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Old 11-02-2007, 12:07 PM   #61
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Re: Aikido is 99% strikes and only 1% preparation.

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Don Magee wrote: View Post
So we are using freakish accidents as proof of the ability to develop skill that will reliably kill with a single punch?
What a weak argument. Folks bring up facts and because they do not fit inside your very small box you pass them off as being "freakish'?

Weak...Like I said dude you need to get out more.

The dude who killed my friend might not have had the intent to kill him (as least thats what his lawyer argued) but as it it was demonstrated in court Tsuki to the throat can be a killing blow and is meant to seriously injure someone.

Go ahead and open your mind up there a bit. It won't "kill" you. LOL

Bowing down to you Don.

William Hazen
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Old 11-03-2007, 06:43 PM   #62
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Re: Aikido is 99% strikes and only 1% preparation.

I have never argued that you can be killed by a single blow. What I have argued is you can develop the ability and skill to kill someone who wants to harm you in a single blow in greater than 50% of your attempts. This is unreasonable, I don't buy it, and I will gladly call it a bunch of bull.

What is the chance that when you are fighting someone that wants to hurt you that you can pull off that death strike? 1 in 5? 1 in 100? It is not a significant risk. It is silly to train for it. You are better of training for something more likely to happen.

I watched 5 black youths beat another black man today in the middle of the mall. At least 50 people were watching, nobody helped (myself included). In the time it took the police to arrive the young kid was picked up and slamed on his skull no less then 4 times, then was pummeled, kicked, jumped on, and all other sorts of nasty things. These kids (young 20's) actually wanted to kill him, you could see it in their eyes. There was no doubt, he was basically helpless. Yet after they ran, he got up and was basically fine (Besides the bad bleeding)

Sounds a lot more realistic.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 11-03-2007, 07:12 PM   #63
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Re: Aikido is 99% strikes and only 1% preparation.

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At least 50 people were watching, nobody helped (myself included).
That's saying something...

Ignatius
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Old 11-03-2007, 09:41 PM   #64
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Re: Aikido is 99% strikes and only 1% preparation.

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Don Magee wrote: View Post
2) Was it a static strike? All demos seem to be like this. I can punch, kick, throw, slam, etc much much harder when you just stand there then when you are moving. Can he demonstrate this strike against a defending partner? Even a you try to block I'll try to punch type situation. I've found that most 'internal' artists I've met (which is admittedly very few) have been unable to do any of this while trying to move and defend. .
Aikido techniques are used to immobilize your opponent, he then becomes a stationary target for a static strike.

David

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Old 11-03-2007, 10:45 PM   #65
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Re: Aikido is 99% strikes and only 1% preparation.

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Don Magee wrote: View Post
I have never argued that you can be killed by a single blow. What I have argued is you can develop the ability and skill to kill someone who wants to harm you in a single blow in greater than 50% of your attempts. This is unreasonable, I don't buy it, and I will gladly call it a bunch of bull.
You may not have argued it... You most certainly implied it... Same thing in my book... As for the "50% of your attempts" factoid Who knows where that came from. The 3 different styles of Karate I trained in all emphasized the Killing Blow/ Disabling Blow. Every strike or kick was focused on delivering that kind of power. All my Karate instructors emphasized developing that kind of power... So again not knowing your background but having read many of your posts... I wonder why your stated experiance would lead you to make such claims.

Quote:
What is the chance that when you are fighting someone that wants to hurt you that you can pull off that death strike? 1 in 5? 1 in 100? It is not a significant risk. It is silly to train for it. You are better of training for something more likely to happen.
Weak...More of the same very small box...See my reply above

Quote:
I watched 5 black youths beat another black man today in the middle of the mall. At least 50 people were watching, nobody helped (myself included). In the time it took the police to arrive the young kid was picked up and slamed on his skull no less then 4 times, then was pummeled, kicked, jumped on, and all other sorts of nasty things. These kids (young 20's) actually wanted to kill him, you could see it in their eyes. There was no doubt, he was basically helpless. Yet after they ran, he got up and was basically fine (Besides the bad bleeding)

Sounds a lot more realistic.
Wow...I did not realize you had EMT training and that you were able to make a visual assesment of the kids likely internal injuries. Good on you...As for watching someone almost get beaten to death along with 50 other people...Well... This is a sick world we're living in Huh Don...

Bowing down to you Don,

William Hazen

Last edited by Aikibu : 11-03-2007 at 10:58 PM.
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Old 11-04-2007, 08:44 AM   #66
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Re: Aikido is 99% strikes and only 1% preparation.

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That's saying something...
If the youth of america want to kill themselves, I'm all for a thinning of the gene pool. I'm not going to put myself or my wife at risk for some stupid gang bangers.

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William Hazen wrote: View Post
Wow...I did not realize you had EMT training and that you were able to make a visual assesment of the kids likely internal injuries. Good on you...As for watching someone almost get beaten to death along with 50 other people...Well... This is a sick world we're living in Huh Don...

Bowing down to you Don,

William Hazen
I have watched and judged many mma fights. I can tell very quickly if someone is hurt or not. I am sure the kid involved was fine, with maybe a few stitches.

But yes, I'm going to stay inside my box on this one. I've talked to medical doctors, done research on my own, spoken to people who claim they can do it, spoken to high ranking karataka, aikidoka, and even a 'ninja'. Nobody has proven me that throwing a single strike is the best way to disable or kill someone. The point of martial arts training is not to show them what can be done, but to train them to do something with a high degree of reliability. If you can not do that, then it is not a serious threat and not a martial technique. Just blind luck. It' my exp that the first punch rarely knocks anyone out, that is why you throw combos. If you could pull this off and train reliably to knock out with one punch, you better believe sport athletes would be focusing their energies into doing just that.

Until I can meet someone who can prove it, then it is faith. I do not trust in faith.

Last edited by DonMagee : 11-04-2007 at 08:53 AM.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 11-04-2007, 08:49 AM   #67
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Re: Aikido is 99% strikes and only 1% preparation.

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Don Magee wrote: View Post
If the youth of america want to kill themselves, I'm all for a thinning of the gene pool. I'm not going to put myself or my wife at risk for some stupid gang bangers.
I'm not trying to criticize here because I often share very similar sentiments; I think they're natural. Still, i think it's a tragedy that we can become so jaded as to not care that ignorant children are killing each other before they get the chance to realize something much more useful, both to themselves and to the society around them. Besides, a thin gene pool is bad.

Gambarimashyo!
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Old 11-04-2007, 08:56 AM   #68
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Re: Aikido is 99% strikes and only 1% preparation.

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Don Magee wrote: View Post
I watched 5 black youths beat another black man today in the middle of the mall. At least 50 people were watching, nobody helped (myself included). In the time it took the police to arrive the young kid was picked up and slamed on his skull no less then 4 times, then was pummeled, kicked, jumped on, and all other sorts of nasty things. These kids (young 20's) actually wanted to kill him, you could see it in their eyes. There was no doubt, he was basically helpless. Yet after they ran, he got up and was basically fine (Besides the bad bleeding)

Sounds a lot more realistic.
I recall being told in a CPR class that pumping the heart while it's beating can cause a heart attack...I imagine that whole "one-strike kill" would be along those lines, assuming it's possible.

Gambarimashyo!
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Old 11-04-2007, 09:03 AM   #69
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Re: Aikido is 99% strikes and only 1% preparation.

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I'm not trying to criticize here because I often share very similar sentiments; I think they're natural. Still, i think it's a tragedy that we can become so jaded as to not care that ignorant children are killing each other before they get the chance to realize something much more useful, both to themselves and to the society around them. Besides, a thin gene pool is bad.
The only reason we kept back and watched, rather then walked away was because this was a chance for me to see real close and personal how the 'average' punk fights in a group. I did actually learn a lot about how things like this go down. First, the kids attempted to emulate what they have seen on tv. They had their hands 'up' in very silly guard like positions and they were going "hu hu" every time they threw a very poor strike. The majority of the group stayed back until the 'target' was on the defensive, then they attacked by running in and kicking him down. Once he was down they started stomping and then stopped to throw a garbage can at him. He was able to get to his feet and they engaged again. One of them picked him up and threw him on his head and they kicked him again. This kind of pattern repeated until the police arrived. The throw actually looked 'good' and I would suspect that kid was indeed a wrestler just by the technique. But nobody was striking with any power and they only dangerous things were the stomping and that throw. I've had tougher 1 on 1 sparing matches. It wasn't that the kids were not trying to hurt each other, they simply just did not know how.

They were also a lot more off balance then I had previously thought an untrained person would be. Their desire to harm actually had them throwing strikes that I would laugh at as silly and unrealistic if I saw them inside a dojo. And finally, nobody was attempting to restrain their target to lay down a good beating. They were all just pushing, punching, and kicking him at the same time in a very tight circle.

The other thing I discovered is that even in emergency's the cops in the mall refuse to get off their little 2 wheeled scooters and run. Which mean the kids outran them.

What I mean by thinning the gene pool is that here, we do not live in a bad area. 'Thugs' are made only by bad parenting, nothing more. If these kids live to reproduce, they will produce even more bad children that are a strain on this society. I'm sick of paying for the mistakes of others. Yes, it is harsh and cynical, but I don't think it is possible to reach kids who behave like that in an area with good schools and a very low crime rate. Unless of course these kids came from out of town from some ghetto. But they were dressed too expensively for that imho.

Last edited by DonMagee : 11-04-2007 at 09:06 AM.

- Don
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Old 11-04-2007, 10:12 AM   #70
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Re: Aikido is 99% strikes and only 1% preparation.

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It wasn't that the kids were not trying to hurt each other, they simply just did not know how.
This is how I would have guessed it likely went. I've not seen a huge number of fights, but of the ones I've seen there were often plenty of ridiculous behaviors (thumbs sticking straight out and other exagerated postures, wildly swinging arms). If those kids really knew what they were doing, don't you think the victim would have been seriously injured? Possibly even killed?

Quote:
They were also a lot more off balance then I had previously thought an untrained person would be.
I think this depends on the amount of fights that untrained person has been in, but it's interesting to hear about the whole "real world vs. training hall" argument and then see somehting like this, isn't it?

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The other thing I discovered is that even in emergency's the cops in the mall refuse to get off their little 2 wheeled scooters and run. Which mean the kids outran them.
It wouldn't surprise me if the cops didn't really try to catch them.

Quote:
What I mean by thinning the gene pool is that here, we do not live in a bad area. 'Thugs' are made only by bad parenting, nothing more. If these kids live to reproduce, they will produce even more bad children that are a strain on this society. I'm sick of paying for the mistakes of others. Yes, it is harsh and cynical, but I don't think it is possible to reach kids who behave like that in an area with good schools and a very low crime rate. Unless of course these kids came from out of town from some ghetto. But they were dressed too expensively for that imho.
I agree it's frustrating...hugely so. It's hard not to feel an incredible amount of contempt and disdain for the kids and their parents. Both are ignorant and are lacking proper perspective. On one hand, I've often felt similar: "let 'em die, for all i care." Over time I've come to view this attitude as subtley destructive though...not that I can offer any concrete solution, but it is this kind of apathy which permits a society to go on unchecked into the kind of "ghetto fabulous" culture which has slowly formed and which took firm root in the early 90's. Still, I'm willing to bet those parents didn't actively raise their kids to be thuggish. Apathy of some degree allowed it to happen. For that reason, i don't think these folks are lost causes.
If I had been there, particularly with my wife or other family members, i probably wouldn't have done much. I'd like to think though, that if I saw an opening to disrupt it, i would have taken advantage of it. The sad fact is that with so many people around, it would have been ridiculously easy to prevent the attack from progressing. Mob mentality works both ways I think: on one hand, it causes people to act out in ways they normally wouldn't, but on the other, it also causes them to not act.....that's my hunch anyway.
I agree with you though...it's interesting to see stuff like this go down; provides some food for thought.

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Old 11-04-2007, 02:46 PM   #71
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Re: Aikido is 99% strikes and only 1% preparation.

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...pumping the heart while it's beating can cause a heart attack...
Commotio Cordis

CC typically involves young, predominantly male athletes in whom a sudden, blunt, nonpenetrating and innocuous-appearing trauma to the anterior chest results in immediate cardiac arrest and sudden death from ventricular fibrillation. Resuscitation is rare. Although CC usually involves impact from a baseball, it has also been reported during hockey, softball, lacrosse, karate, and other sports activities in which a relatively hard projectile or bodily contact caused impact to the person's precordium. More than 180 cases of CC have been reported to the US Commotio Cordis Registry (Minneapolis, Minn)
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Old 11-04-2007, 02:54 PM   #72
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Re: Aikido is 99% strikes and only 1% preparation.

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Don Magee wrote: View Post
If the youth of america want to kill themselves, I'm all for a thinning of the gene pool. I'm not going to put myself or my wife at risk for some stupid gang bangers.
Yeah I guess one can hide thier hate behind anything

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I have watched and judged many mma fights. I can tell very quickly if someone is hurt or not. I am sure the kid involved was fine, with maybe a few stitches.
Having been in many dangerous situations and seen more than a few people get hurt There is a standard assesment protocol to determine the extent of someones injuries. I don't like to make assumptions based on visual evidence. If you do that's ok by me

Quote:
But yes, I'm going to stay inside my box on this one. I've talked to medical doctors, done research on my own, spoken to people who claim they can do it, spoken to high ranking karataka, aikidoka, and even a 'ninja'. Nobody has proven me that throwing a single strike is the best way to disable or kill someone. The point of martial arts training is not to show them what can be done, but to train them to do something with a high degree of reliability. If you can not do that, then it is not a serious threat and not a martial technique. Just blind luck. It' my exp that the first punch rarely knocks anyone out, that is why you throw combos. If you could pull this off and train reliably to knock out with one punch, you better believe sport athletes would be focusing their energies into doing just that.

Until I can meet someone who can prove it, then it is faith. I do not trust in faith.
You do this time and again with your rhetoric....Someone refutes your assertations with a few facts or experiances and you turn the argument around into an all or nothing straw man. As for your predjudices... Since I work with Gang Kids trying to turn them around thats cool that the best you can hope for them is that they die out...I may only help one in a hundred But I sure as shit don't waste my time with folks like you.

You are either part of the problem or part of the solution....

Like I said Don This can be a sick world to live in...I would rather be part of the cure and not the disease..
William Hazen

Last edited by Aikibu : 11-04-2007 at 02:58 PM.
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Old 11-04-2007, 10:58 PM   #73
DonMagee
Location: Indiana
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Re: Aikido is 99% strikes and only 1% preparation.

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William Hazen wrote: View Post
Yeah I guess one can hide thier hate behind anything

Having been in many dangerous situations and seen more than a few people get hurt There is a standard assesment protocol to determine the extent of someones injuries. I don't like to make assumptions based on visual evidence. If you do that's ok by me

You do this time and again with your rhetoric....Someone refutes your assertations with a few facts or experiances and you turn the argument around into an all or nothing straw man. As for your predjudices... Since I work with Gang Kids trying to turn them around thats cool that the best you can hope for them is that they die out...I may only help one in a hundred But I sure as shit don't waste my time with folks like you.

You are either part of the problem or part of the solution....

Like I said Don This can be a sick world to live in...I would rather be part of the cure and not the disease..
William Hazen
Nothing to do with prejudice. Unless you mean I am prejudice against stupid. I don't care if you are white, black, mexican, or any other nationality. I have zero sympathy for stupid. There is no excuse to be a gang banger where I live. Feel free to come visit. There is no urban sprawl, no major crime, just a nice quiet suburban farm town. These are not down on their luck inner city kids. These are wannabes and rich kids with parents that do not keep them in check. What should I do, ask them why they are angry? I'm sorry your mommy bought you all that nice mall clothes and pimp cell phones and brand new cars with 23 inch spinners...It's a sad life, I know. But keep it real hommy!

Of course I guess I could of just walked in and took down all 5 of them with my uber combat training.........

Besides, I don't even know the story, maybe the 'target' deserved it. Maybe he started the fight. Maybe one of them had a gun, or a knife.

Sorry I'm jaded, but I worked my ass off to get where I am. I went from nothing without anyones help. These kids today have only one excuse, they are taught to look for hand outs. I saw it in my generation. Out of all of my friends, I'm the only one to own a home, not be on welfare, and possibly succeed in life. You want to know why? Because my dad beat sense into me and didn't let me have handouts. But if these rich kids want to act tough and not take any responsibility for their actions, then yes, I say they are worthless. Of course to say what you think makes you a racist, or a bigot, or whatever. But this isn't the ghetto's of Compton, this is a place where if you don't succeed you only have one person to blame, yourself. I'm not a racist, but I don't care if I am labeled one. No matter what your race, if you are talking in ghetto slang, refusing to educate yourself, living off the system, and trying to act tough and putting others in danger, then yes, I am prejudiced against you. If I see you trying to succeed in life, and really giving it a go, I'll be the first to help you up. But what I see here is the largest funded school district in the state, most kids driving brand new cars, and huge houses and tons of good paying jobs. The majority of people here are good people. It's just this small new element of punks trying to be thugs.

I know exactly how these kids are. I used to hang with kids just like them. Hard core, living in their parents 400k houses. Yea, hard core gang bangers.

My rhetoric is always a single freaking question. One that is NEVER answered. I ask for scientific, repeatable proof. All combat sports have this, why do ALL non-sport martial arts completely lack this? It's like a cult or religion. Blind faith overshadows any attempt at discussion.

A kid was hit in the chest with a basketball and died. That is proof of a death touch. No more study needed, we don't need to find out the chance of it happening, how it works, or if you can even do it reliably, we know it is there and that automatically means there are leigions of karateka trained to do it? I think not.

The FACT is that there is a tradition of believing in things without question in the martial arts. Any evidence, no matter how weak is used as 100% concrete proof and the position is unmovable. I've seen it time and time again. Guys who can break crazy things, but only when they supply the material. Guys who can take shots to the throat and groin, but only when their ukes throw the blows, gues who can knock you out across the room, but can't do it to you because you are in the 2% of immune people (as so is ALL of your friends of course).

There is too much bull in the martial arts to ever waver on proof. I'm not in this for faith. If I want to pretend I can find better ways. Life is way to short to waste my time learning and passing down crap. The death touch is crap. Even if it was remotely possible to train a reliable way to kill with a single blow, how would ANYONE know if they are training properly. Did your teacher kill someone with it? Did his teacher? How far back in time do you have to go to find a single person who killed with your technique. Then was it repeatable, reliable, or a fluke? Did he know it was going to kill?

Sports have zero questions in this department. They know exactly why they do which things and in what situations they actually work. They have tested it time and time again from the dawn of invention to just this second.

You want me to admit a punch can kill you? Sure.
You want me to admit a punch has a HIGH likelihood of killing you? Not gonna happen. Ever case pointed to is a freakish accident and never a planed, premeditated attack. For ever case of someone who is punched only once and dies, there is probably hundreds if not thousands or millions of cases where someone was punched and was just fine. Is it worth spending the majority of your training focused on defending an attack with a a 100 to 1 chance? a 1000 to 1 chance? Or even worse, focusing on your training on preforming attacks that at best have a 1 in 50 chance of working and at worst a 1 in 1000 chance in working?

But I'm out of things to add to this conversation, there is really nothing more to say on any front. I am not some blind follower. You shown me irrefutable proof of the ability to develop reliable death touch, and I'll train it today. Otherwise it simply is not worth my time. It is safe to say that virtually everyone does not have it, and it is next to impossible to get it, so why bother when you have good proven basics that work just fine.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 11-04-2007, 11:19 PM   #74
Aikibu
Dojo: West Wind Dojo Santa Monica California
Location: Malibu, California
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Re: Aikido is 99% strikes and only 1% preparation.

Don,

Death Touch...hmmmm I see you escalated your rhetoric to expose one of your many predjudices

You have shown your true colors about a variety of subjects. All I can say is that I had it far tougher than you in terms of life experiance, and yet I am the exact polar opposite in both temperment and philosophy. I will keep that in mind. Compassion or hate...Knowledge or Ignorance are choices... Regardless of circumstances.

"To hate is to condem you to be born in the house of your enemy."

Bowing down to you Don,

William Hazen

Last edited by Aikibu : 11-04-2007 at 11:33 PM.
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Old 11-04-2007, 11:20 PM   #75
DonMagee
Location: Indiana
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Re: Aikido is 99% strikes and only 1% preparation.

Quote:
William Hazen wrote: View Post
Don,

You have shown your true colors about a variety of subjects. I will keep that in mind.

Bowing down to you Don,

William Hazen
I've never hidden anything from anyone. I always tell people exactly how I feel.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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