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Old 10-07-2007, 12:14 PM   #26
me32dc
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Re: Shihonage roll-out

This happened at our dojo a few weeks ago, we where pinned and tried to get out.
(yoshinkan btw)
If you have pinned with your right arm your left knee is down. This should be inline with your right foot. Your wrist should be inline with this too. This allows your body weight to hold the person down flat. When demonstrated on me it was impossible to get up no matter which way i tried to wriggle, twist turn etc.
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Old 10-07-2007, 08:37 PM   #27
Jeremy Lambert
Dojo: Aikido Mastery/Albuquerque
Location: Albuquerque
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Re: Shihonage roll-out

Drop weight on forearm with leg allowing you pin and free a hand to strike
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Old 10-08-2007, 01:29 PM   #28
Eric Joyce
Dojo: Budoshingikan
Location: Gilbert, AZ
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Re: Shihonage roll-out

Quote:
John Matsushima wrote: View Post
Is there a way to prevent uke from rolling out of a shihonage pin? How did shihonage become a pinning technique anyway? Maybe it isn't meant to be a pinning technique?
One method I have used in the past is when you finish executing shiho nage and you have your left knee up and your right knee down (I am looking at this from a Yoshinkan approach) I will spin on my right knee dropping my left knee to his face. I will put my left knee into ukes face/throat while maintaining that shiho nage lock. I will then torque on ukes wrist pulling it to my center. This usually stops them from wiggling out of shiho nage.

Eric Joyce
Otake Han Doshin Ryu Jujutsu
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Old 10-08-2007, 01:43 PM   #29
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
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Re: Shihonage roll-out

Yeah, sometimes relocates the joint for 'em, too.

Hey Eric, good to see you posting!

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 10-09-2007, 07:59 AM   #30
xuzen
 
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Re: Shihonage roll-out

Quote:
John Matsushima wrote: View Post
Is there a way to prevent uke from rolling out of a shihonage pin? How did shihonage become a pinning technique anyway? Maybe it isn't meant to be a pinning technique?
Yes.

During the drop, do not step forward. Just drop vertically on the spot. The feeling is like Osoto-otoshi.. i.e., the victim ( I mean uke) will have a feeling that his legs are swept under him.

Assuming the ground is solid asphalt and not padded mat, this will prevent uke from rolling out and also doing any other other physical activity for a while.

If there are padded mat... then following advices from post # 26, 27 & 28 are also fine.

Boon.

SHOMEN-ATE (TM), the solution to 90% of aikido and life's problems.
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Old 10-09-2007, 01:49 PM   #31
Brion Toss
Dojo: Aikido Port Townsend
Location: Port Townsend, Wa.
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Re: Shihonage roll-out

We were just working on this pin last night, and found that, in addition to much of what has been mentioned above, that the angle that nage forms to uke's body makes a big difference. This is because it affects the vector of force that nage's forearm makes to uke's upper arm. If nage is, for instance, 90 to uke, the forearm is pushing down, but also more or less away; any slight attempt at a roll will create slack, allowing further roll and escape. But if nage is 45 or so to uke, the vector pushes down and towards the top of their head. This rotates the elbow towards the mat, and not so much across uke's head. And all this, of course, is in addition to pinning the shoulder, taking the hand in a spiral down and away from the head, lining up your weight on the pinning hand, etc.
We were working mostly on a standing pin, but the same variables would apply to kneeling, with or without using uke as a knee cushion.

Regards,

Brion Toss
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Old 10-15-2007, 12:05 PM   #32
John Longford
Dojo: Cambridge Aikido, Cambridge UK
Location: Cambridge UK
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Re: Shihonage roll-out

Try this. The Uke's hand should be tight to the shoulder, with both your hands on the arm. Your lower hand should be on the wrist and pinning down into the mat but with a slight twist towards the Uke. This puts your forearm in contact with the middle of the Uke's upper arm. Any attempt by the Uke to roll out applies pain to the nerve point in his/her arm (assuming they feel that they can move at all)
You can of course increase the twist (slowly) until the Uke taps anyway. Just remember that it is the Uke's turn next, unless like me, you are the teacher!
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Old 10-23-2007, 06:57 AM   #33
John Matsushima
 
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Re: Shihonage roll-out

Thanks again for everyone's input. A friend of mine helped me work through this and found that keeping the shoulder pinned is key. Now, back to the dojo!

-John Matsushima

My blog on Japanese culture
http://onecorneroftheplanetinjapan.blogspot.jp/
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Old 10-29-2007, 11:25 AM   #34
Michael Douglas
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Re: Shihonage roll-out

Quote:
John Matsushima wrote: View Post
Is there a way to prevent uke from rolling out of a shihonage pin? How did shihonage become a pinning technique anyway? Maybe it isn't meant to be a pinning technique?
Sit on them.
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Old 10-30-2007, 10:11 PM   #35
xuzen
 
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Re: Shihonage roll-out

Quote:
Michael Douglas wrote: View Post
Sit on them.
Not good... sitting gives very little body contact, furthermore, your center of gravity is way too high up.

Boon.

SHOMEN-ATE (TM), the solution to 90% of aikido and life's problems.
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Old 11-01-2007, 01:53 PM   #36
Michael Douglas
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Re: Shihonage roll-out

Quote:
Xu Wenfung wrote: View Post
Not good... sitting gives very little body contact
I have a large arse.
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Old 11-01-2007, 09:18 PM   #37
xuzen
 
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Re: Shihonage roll-out

Quote:
Michael Douglas wrote: View Post
I have a large arse.
Humbly bow down to large arse master....

Boon.

SHOMEN-ATE (TM), the solution to 90% of aikido and life's problems.
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Old 12-06-2007, 07:41 AM   #38
Paul Milburn
Dojo: Northern Aikido Association
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Re: Shihonage roll-out

Some styles allow for a breakfall "up and over" from shiho nage, others such as Yoshinkan style pin hard to the floor. Both are possible. The latter pin is often more self defence or aiki jitsu based styles of aiki.
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Old 12-06-2007, 11:54 AM   #39
Ed OConnor
 
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Re: Shihonage roll-out

If you can, grabbing uke's thumb firmly with your outside hand should prevent all (except those who wish a broken thumb) from rolling out.

Peace,
eD

http://www.aikidocenters.com/
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