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Old 10-19-2007, 08:24 PM   #26
Mike Sigman
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Re: Feldenkrais, Nature and Martial Response

I actually didn't catch a lot of this thread because I thought it was over.

Bob Stra.... sorry I didn't catch your post in time, I was in San Diego a month or so ago. I'll get in touch with Elizabeth Beringer and see if I can meet up with her briefly. Until then, I'd have to stand by my statement and note that I have never felt a Feldenkrais practitioner who knew what intent was or how to use it. It should be very straightforward.

David Orange, same deal. Even if you knew Feldenkrais and it had much or some of the same components, by now you would have recognized them and been able to merge with the discussions. The inability to do so says most of everything. It's not up to me to prove negatives.

Best,

Mike
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Old 10-19-2007, 09:58 PM   #27
David Orange
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Re: Feldenkrais, Nature and Martial Response

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Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
David Orange, same deal. Even if you knew Feldenkrais and it had much or some of the same components, by now you would have recognized them and been able to merge with the discussions. The inability to do so says most of everything. It's not up to me to prove negatives.
Sorry, Mike, but you're disputing yourself. You said Feldenkrais had nothing to offer. And after many, many times of saying "if you understood this, you could explain it," you've actually offered very, very little "explanation" other than vague references to things that other people have written--mostly the "same old stuff" that you criticize as being too allegorical or metaphorical. All your real "explanation" is in the third article and what do we find? It matches right up with what Feldenkrais said fifty years ago.

I don't ask you to prove negatives. You just create them.

But carry on, carry on. People say you've got something, but your explanations don't show it. So maybe you just don't understand other people's explanations, either.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

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Old 10-21-2007, 02:11 PM   #28
Mike Sigman
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Re: Feldenkrais, Nature and Martial Response

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David Orange wrote: View Post
But carry on, carry on. People say you've got something, but your explanations don't show it. So maybe you just don't understand other people's explanations, either.
Er.... how does this fly, given that so many of us "others" understand what each other is talking about and you have repeatedly shown yourself to be uninformed in this area?

If you've got something to say and demonstrate about how Feldenkrais is similar to something I said in a blog, try to specifically narrow the area of discussion and be prepared to support your position in the debate. Don't just make general statements and expect them to be accepted, particularly in light of your previous nose-dives in these "how it's done" debates.

Regards,

Mike Sigman
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Old 10-21-2007, 03:25 PM   #29
Mike Sigman
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Re: Feldenkrais, Nature and Martial Response

I've been thinking and,you know, to be fair and to use a bit of extrapolation, I can actually see how Feldenkrais movement could be someone's interpretation of some of the ki/kokyu skills. It's a limited interpretation (bear in mind I'm only guessing based on what I've seen and read and felt), but suddenly I can see how it's an attempt to do some of the same things. And heck, I've seen a lot worse guesses/attempts in the martial-arts communities at ki/kokyu skills, so it's not really a bad attempt.

Assuming my guess is roughly in the right direction, then here's my opinion: Feldenkrais's movement principles would be based on the kind of movement that Tohei espouses where you relax and let the body and mind hopefully coordinate for such an optimum movement that you get seemingly better strength, etc., from the approach.

It's sort of like the example Tohei uses where someone holds his wrist and yet he calmly reaches up and scratches his head. Tohei's approach to doing that particular demonstration (and other similar ones) is to just relax, etc. My preferred approach would result in the same results ultimately, but would be much more explicative, initially, in order to (IMO) refine and extend the range of skills. However, I suddenly see how the Feldenkrais approach could be a derivative of the general approach that Tohei uses. Since I haven't felt anyone in Feldenkrais (and of course I haven't felt them all) using any real jin skills, I tended to not look very close at any potential relationships (I'm pretty results-oriented, admittedly).

If my tentative guess is correct, then OK I can see a vague relationship between Feldenkrais' perspective and the ki/kokyu/jin/etc stuff in Asian martial arts. However, results-wise, I don't see it as being effective enough for anyone to divert a lot of attention to. To be fair (remember, this is all just a guess!!!), I'd suggest that with the proper pointers a bona fide Feldenkrais person *might* have a somewhat easier job of picking up ki/qi/jin/kokyu skills.

Yours in Rumination.

Mike
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Old 10-22-2007, 10:09 AM   #30
bob_stra
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Re: Feldenkrais, Nature and Martial Response

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
I've been thinking and,you know, to be fair and to use a bit of extrapolation, I can actually see how Feldenkrais movement could be someone's interpretation of some of the ki/kokyu skills. It's a limited interpretation (bear in mind I'm only guessing based on what I've seen and read and felt), but suddenly I can see how it's an attempt to do some of the same things. And heck, I've seen a lot worse guesses/attempts in the martial-arts communities at ki/kokyu skills, so it's not really a bad attempt.
Now...don't feel the need to agree with me, because we both might be wrong

Quote:
Assuming my guess is roughly in the right direction, then here's my opinion: Feldenkrais's movement principles would be based on the kind of movement that Tohei espouses where you relax and let the body and mind hopefully coordinate for such an optimum movement that you get seemingly better strength, etc., from the approach.
That's not...far off, actually. I mean, I could inject all sorts of science into it, how it works, bla bla...but...it's not far wrong, IMHO.

There's a series of lessons, for example, that start you laying on your stomach, basically in a 1 hand push up position. The 'goal', if there is one, if to find a pathway through the arm, to the shoulder blade, into the spine, across into the pelvis, in such a manner so as to roll yourself smoothly onto your back. Smoothly means - can stop movement at any point and reverse it. And also, not using the local chest musculature to do it.

It's a weird sensation...perhaps one that makes sense to you?

Anyway, msg me and tell me what you find. I shall be very keen to take it on board.
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Old 10-22-2007, 10:16 AM   #31
bob_stra
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Re: Feldenkrais, Nature and Martial Response

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Aran Bright wrote: View Post
Hi Bob,

I had one quick question too, is there an ideal point for initiating movement in Feldenkrais? This is a loaded question, but I am keen to hear your answer.

Aran
Hmm...

It...depends

Realistically, "no". However, the 'initiation' should be such as to afford even distribution of effort, allow for 'segmental sequencing' not overtly use too much localized musculature (proportionality of effort) and most importantly, not lock you into doing one thing. Ie: from any point, being able to reverse the direction and go elsewhere

That's my current understanding.

Feldenkrais "ideals" are more about quality, AFAIK. There are some very specific qualities that are looked for. If your 'initiation' allows for them, then great.
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Old 10-22-2007, 10:24 AM   #32
Mike Sigman
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Re: Feldenkrais, Nature and Martial Response

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Bob Strahinjevich wrote: View Post
Now...don't feel the need to agree with me, because we both might be wrong
I have t-shirt that says just that: "If I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong".
Quote:
There's a series of lessons, for example, that start you laying on your stomach, basically in a 1 hand push up position. The 'goal', if there is one, if to find a pathway through the arm, to the shoulder blade, into the spine, across into the pelvis, in such a manner so as to roll yourself smoothly onto your back. Smoothly means - can stop movement at any point and reverse it. And also, not using the local chest musculature to do it.

It's a weird sensation...perhaps one that makes sense to you?
Well, I've seen examples like that one you just mentioned and that's part of what has thrown me off. It's like a cousin-tangent to qi/ki skills, but it's off the mark of using "intent" in the full-blown sense. It's sort of like some of the airy-fairy stuff that you see done in Tai Chi or Aikido that is like a faint parody of the original art, almost unrecognizable.

In other words, I know what you're saying, but it still won't qualify for what I'm talking about, although a good Feldenkrais practitioner could probably get in touch with what I'm talking about more quickly than the average bloke.

Best.

Mike
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Old 10-22-2007, 10:33 AM   #33
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Re: Feldenkrais, Nature and Martial Response

I'm interested in this intent thing you speak of. I'd like an elaboration. Is this a discussion that can be had in this open forum?

Anyway, I'm off to bed...so to be continued (from my end) tomorrow

Last edited by bob_stra : 10-22-2007 at 10:35 AM.
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Old 10-22-2007, 01:37 PM   #34
Mike Sigman
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Re: Feldenkrais, Nature and Martial Response

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Bob Strahinjevich wrote: View Post
I'm interested in this intent thing you speak of. I'd like an elaboration. Is this a discussion that can be had in this open forum?
In reality I think it's something where the words would sound confusing and continue to give the idea that there's a relationship, when in actuality there's not much of one. If I could show you personally I think you'd be convinced in a split-second.

Best.

Mike
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Old 10-22-2007, 11:39 PM   #35
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Re: Feldenkrais, Nature and Martial Response

Well, for the sake of argument, let me tell you where I'm coming from - then you can tell me if I'm in the ball park with a simple 'yes' or 'no'

Say I'm walking down the street and I notice my foot hurts. As an experiment, I decide to initiate my forward step by moving from my forehead first and landing on my big toe side. Then I experiment landing on the outside edge of my foot, or I might try more of a roll, or initiating from my eyes (turn eyes first to turn head to see what kind of weight shift that produces). Each variation seems to produce a different organization.

Nothing really 'outwards' changes (I still step), but my intention is different, so the thing I feel when I step is different.

Kinda like that?
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Old 10-23-2007, 08:51 AM   #36
Mike Sigman
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Re: Feldenkrais, Nature and Martial Response

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Bob Strahinjevich wrote: View Post
Nothing really 'outwards' changes (I still step), but my intention is different, so the thing I feel when I step is different.
No, it's more like I "will" the ground or my weight to somewhere to handle any needed up or down forces as I need them, so a path forms from the ground (or from my weight center) as needed. That's too coarse of a description, but it conveys the general idea. Of course, after a while, I don't consciously "will" things... they just happen automatically (same implication for Aikido techniques happening automatically).

Best.

Mike
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Old 10-23-2007, 09:02 AM   #37
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Re: Feldenkrais, Nature and Martial Response

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Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
No, it's more like I "will" the ground or my weight to somewhere to handle any needed up or down forces as I need them, so a path forms from the ground (or from my weight center) as needed. That's too coarse of a description, but it conveys the general idea. Of course, after a while, I don't consciously "will" things... they just happen automatically (same implication for Aikido techniques happening automatically).

Best.

Mike
Huh - I was quite a bit off. Cool!

I have some questions on how you 'will' things...do you feel upto getting into it here, or ...

(Man...words. We need to set up a teleconference for this kind of thing)

Last edited by bob_stra : 10-23-2007 at 09:13 AM.
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Old 10-30-2007, 02:44 PM   #38
David Orange
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Re: Feldenkrais, Nature and Martial Response

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Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
I've been thinking and,you know, to be fair and to use a bit of extrapolation, I can actually see how Feldenkrais movement could be someone's interpretation of some of the ki/kokyu skills.
Well...you're starting to get closer, Mike, but as I've said, Feldenkrais movement is not an interpretation of any skills. It's a different thing altogether. If anything, you would be correct in saying that it's "like" yoga. And I don't think you would say that yoga is anyone's interpretation of ki/kokyu skills, would you?

Actually, even saying that Feldenkrais movement is "like" yoga is only approximate. The first Feldenkrais practitioner I knew was also a teacher of yoga and he said that, even after many years of yoga, he continued to have difficulty and pain with many of the positions....until he learned Feldenkrais. Then he gained so much direct communication between his body and his will (intent) that he was able to do all the postures of yoga very easily and without pain. So Feldenkrais is something deeper than either yoga or martial arts. It's direct exploration of the most fundamental interface between our consciousness and our physical bodies.

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Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
It's a limited interpretation (bear in mind I'm only guessing based on what I've seen and read and felt), but suddenly I can see how it's an attempt to do some of the same things. And heck, I've seen a lot worse guesses/attempts in the martial-arts communities at ki/kokyu skills, so it's not really a bad attempt.
Again, sorry, but no. It's not "an attempt" to do what you do. It's an exploration of the mind/body connection that underlies what you do. The Feldenkrais method can help a dancer learn to be a better dancer, but it isn't "dance." It can help an actor learn to be a better actor. It can help a concert violinist overcome the damage caused by a bullet wound to his elbow and play again in the symphony. It helped David Ben Gurion when he was prime minister of Israel. It can enable a five-year-old cerebral palsy victim to crawl when he has never been able to unbend his body from a curled-up position. So I think it can help anyone get better results in whatever it is they are attempting to do.

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Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
However, I suddenly see how the Feldenkrais approach could be a derivative of the general approach that Tohei uses. Since I haven't felt anyone in Feldenkrais (and of course I haven't felt them all) using any real jin skills, I tended to not look very close at any potential relationships (I'm pretty results-oriented, admittedly).
It may be related to what Tohei does, but it isn't "derivative." Again, you shouldn't expect a Feldenkrais practitioner to exhibit any jin skills uless they're also martial artists--and then only to the level of what their teacher has shown them (though, with a teacher who's advanced enough, they can begin understanding things they haven't been shown).

You wouldn't expect most yoga people to display jin skills, would you? But yoga is more likely to develop tanren than some martial arts. Still, unless someone is a martial art (or if he's studying some relatively rare form of yoga), he isn't likely to manifest any of the kinds of things you're looking for. I just don't think you'd say yoga has no application to what you're developing, would you? It's very similar with Feldenkrais. Dennis Leri and Elizabeth Berringer are two people you should check out on those ideas. I haven't met them and don't really know about their martial skills, but I know they have experience in martial arts as well as Feldenkrais. I just don't know much about their aikido backgrounds.

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Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
If my tentative guess is correct, then OK I can see a vague relationship between Feldenkrais' perspective and the ki/kokyu/jin/etc stuff in Asian martial arts. However, results-wise, I don't see it as being effective enough for anyone to divert a lot of attention to.
It's not a linear relationship. Doing Feldenkrais will not develop the skills you're thinking of and it's not intended to. It develps something else that is as counter-intuitive to your skills as using "the fascia" would be to anyone else. The key is that you don't use it in the way you're thinking of using it.

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Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
To be fair (remember, this is all just a guess!!!), I'd suggest that with the proper pointers a bona fide Feldenkrais person *might* have a somewhat easier job of picking up ki/qi/jin/kokyu skills.
And you're back to where I started these discussions of Feldenkrais. As I said, it's a tool that would have excellent application in what you're doing. Not only would someone with good Feldenkrais skills have an easier time learning what you're doing (if they have some martial arts background), but someone doing what you're doing would find that learning Feldenkrais would help them develop faster and more easily than before--just as it helped the yoga teacher overcome his long-standing problems with yoga.

But congratulations on your insight and I encourage you to meet with Elizabeth Berringer and let us know what you experience. Also, don't forget Dennis Leri.

Best to you.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.esotericorange.com
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Old 10-30-2007, 02:50 PM   #39
David Orange
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Re: Feldenkrais, Nature and Martial Response

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Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
If you've got something to say and demonstrate about how Feldenkrais is similar to something I said in a blog, try to specifically narrow the area of discussion and be prepared to support your position in the debate. Don't just make general statements and expect them to be accepted...
I wanted to answer the other post before going back to this one. I didn't say that something Feldenkrais said was "similar" to something you'd said in a blog. I said that you said exactly the same thing in your blog that Feldenkrais was writing in "Higher Judo" about the time you were born: the central mass of the body exerts the force and the limbs just direct the force. And that's not even an unusual or rare observation in aikido, either.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.esotericorange.com
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Old 10-30-2007, 03:28 PM   #40
G DiPierro
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Re: Feldenkrais, Nature and Martial Response

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David Orange wrote: View Post
Actually, even saying that Feldenkrais movement is "like" yoga is only approximate. The first Feldenkrais practitioner I knew was also a teacher of yoga and he said that, even after many years of yoga, he continued to have difficulty and pain with many of the positions....until he learned Feldenkrais. Then he gained so much direct communication between his body and his will (intent) that he was able to do all the postures of yoga very easily and without pain. So Feldenkrais is something deeper than either yoga or martial arts. It's direct exploration of the most fundamental interface between our consciousness and our physical bodies.
Just because you knew one person who found the insights he needed in Feldenkrais rather than yoga, that doesn't mean that Feldenkrais is neccesarily deeper than yoga. Maybe your friend just didn't have very good yoga teachers. Not all yoga is good yoga, just as not all aikido is good aikido, and even among the major schools of yoga there significant differences in emphasis and interpretation.

My own experience is that best yoga teachers I have met have a better understanding of how the body should work, a much better embodiment of those principles themselves, and a better way of teaching them to others than what I have seen of Feldenkrais, which admittedly has been quite limited (although I did train in aikido with a Feldenkrais practitioner for a while). To me, Feldenkrais looks kind of like yoga-lite, which is to say that I think it is more aimed towards people who cannot do serious yoga for whatever reason.

Not everyone will be able to do the primary series of Ashtanga yoga, for example, and only small percentage of those people will ever make it to the fourth series, but if you look at people who are at that level in yoga (in any style, not just Ashtanga), I think you might find a depth of understanding of the connection between the mind and the body that goes well beyond anything in Feldenkrais.
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Old 10-30-2007, 03:40 PM   #41
David Orange
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Re: Feldenkrais, Nature and Martial Response

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Giancarlo DiPierro wrote: View Post
Just because you knew one person who found the insights he needed in Feldenkrais rather than yoga, that doesn't mean that Feldenkrais is neccesarily deeper than yoga.
I'm sure I didn't say either of those things. My friend got better at yoga after doing Feldenkrais, but he did continue doing yoga, so I suppose he must have found a lot of good in both of them.

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Giancarlo DiPierro wrote: View Post
To me, Feldenkrais looks kind of like yoga-lite, which is to say that I think it is more aimed towards people who cannot do serious yoga for whatever reason.
I suppose one might also think that tai chi is a sort of an "aikido lite" if he didn't understand either one very well. But the truth is, they're different and both have different purposes and approaches. It's useless to say that a grapefruit isn't as good as an apple or that a pomegranate isn't as good as a plum, isn't it?

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Giancarlo DiPierro wrote: View Post
Not everyone will be able to do the primary series of Ashtanga yoga, for example, and only small percentage of those people will ever make it to the fourth series, but if you look at people who are at that level in yoga (in any style, not just Ashtanga), I think you might find a depth of understanding of the connection between the mind and the body that goes well beyond anything in Feldenkrais.
Maybe you just haven't seen anyone who's gone really deep in Feldenkrais?

I knew a fellow in Japan who was pretty advanced in yoga and he was very difficult to control, especially after he gained some depth in aikido. He had a lot of flexibility and strength. It made him better able to learn aikido, just as Feldenkrais can help someone advance in yoga more quickly and easily. It's important to understand the purpose of a thing before trying to compare it to something with a very different purpose, don't you think?

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

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www.esotericorange.com
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Old 10-30-2007, 05:54 PM   #42
G DiPierro
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Re: Feldenkrais, Nature and Martial Response

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Giancarlo DiPierro wrote: View Post
Just because you knew one person who found the insights he needed in Feldenkrais rather than yoga, that doesn't mean that Feldenkrais is necessarily deeper than yoga.
Quote:
David Orange wrote: View Post
I'm sure I didn't say either of those things.
Well, I'm sure you did say:

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David Orange wrote: View Post
So Feldenkrais is something deeper than either yoga or martial arts.
My experience is that I have seen far more depth in yoga than in what I've seen of Feldenkrais.

Quote:
Maybe you just haven't seen anyone who's gone really deep in Feldenkrais?
OK, then give me some names. Suggest four or five people who represent different in-depth approaches to Feldenkrais that I could check out, and in return I'll give you a similar list of yoga people.

Last edited by G DiPierro : 10-30-2007 at 05:57 PM.
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Old 10-30-2007, 08:07 PM   #43
David Orange
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Re: Feldenkrais, Nature and Martial Response

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Giancarlo DiPierro wrote: View Post
Well, I'm sure you did say:

Quote:
David Orange wrote:
So Feldenkrais is something deeper than either yoga or martial arts.
Meaning that it reaches a level of the nervous system that is more fundamental than either yoga or martial arts works with. Not that it's better. It means it's more basic and thererfore universal. Children with cerebral palsy cannot do yoga, but they can be helped by Feldenkrais methods. The purposes are different, but they are similar.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.esotericorange.com
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Old 10-30-2007, 08:18 PM   #44
G DiPierro
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Re: Feldenkrais, Nature and Martial Response

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David Orange wrote: View Post
Meaning that it reaches a level of the nervous system that is more fundamental than either yoga or martial arts works with. Not that it's better. It means it's more basic and thererfore universal. Children with cerebral palsy cannot do yoga, but they can be helped by Feldenkrais methods. The purposes are different, but they are similar.
http://www.specialyoga.com/cerebralpalsy.htm
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Old 10-30-2007, 08:35 PM   #45
David Orange
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Re: Feldenkrais, Nature and Martial Response

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Interesting article, but I'm talking about a child who has never even crawled, much less stood and assumed a yoga posture. Just to get the child to release enough spasmodic tension to be able to crawl was a challenge he would have to overcome before he could learn to stand in a posture. Moshe Feldenkrais, himself, could apply his methods to such children and enable them to move.

As I say, it's a different method, not better or worse: very different, with a different purpose. And I know of people who could improve their yoga after doing Feldenkrais, but I never heard of one who got better at Feldenkrais after doing yoga....

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

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Old 10-30-2007, 09:13 PM   #46
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Re: Feldenkrais, Nature and Martial Response

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As I say, it's a different method, not better or worse: very different, with a different purpose. And I know of people who could improve their yoga after doing Feldenkrais, but I never heard of one who got better at Feldenkrais after doing yoga....
I'm not sure what getting "better" at Feldenkrais would consist of, or how you could tell whether someone had gotten better. Would it mean that they have better posture? That's a common result of practicing yoga. How about increased range of movement? Another typical benefit of yoga. Reduction of pain? Yoga. Improvement of one's "overall well-being" (that's from Wikipedia)? Yoga again.

As far as I can tell from the descriptions I've read, all of the goals of the Feldenkrais method can also be achieved through yoga. That's not to say that they are same thing, but from what I've seen it doesn't look like there is anything there that is not also in yoga.
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Old 10-30-2007, 10:14 PM   #47
David Orange
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Re: Feldenkrais, Nature and Martial Response

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Giancarlo DiPierro wrote: View Post
As far as I can tell from the descriptions I've read, all of the goals of the Feldenkrais method can also be achieved through yoga. That's not to say that they are same thing, but from what I've seen it doesn't look like there is anything there that is not also in yoga.
In Feldenkrais, there is no outward form as a goal. No stretching. That's why people who learn Feldenkrais well are able to improve at yoga: they learn to perform the complicated maneuvers without stretching. Instead of assuming a form, they explore the inner relationship between what they mentally intend to do and what they actually do. This leads to deep exploration of "how" they are instructing their bodies. In the process, they usually discover that they weren't telling their bodies exactly what they thought. They were telling their bodies to do much more than they intended. Which is why most people find yoga very difficult and why it requires stretching. The yoga instructor I mentioned before had pain doing yoga, despite many years of experience. After he learned Feldenkrais, he was able to do the postures without strecthing and without pain.

In any case, the point is that Feldenkrais can help anyone develop a more subtle practice, whatever practice he is pursuing, including yoga.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

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Old 10-31-2007, 01:46 AM   #48
G DiPierro
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Re: Feldenkrais, Nature and Martial Response

Quote:
David Orange wrote: View Post
In Feldenkrais, there is no outward form as a goal. No stretching. That's why people who learn Feldenkrais well are able to improve at yoga: they learn to perform the complicated maneuvers without stretching. Instead of assuming a form, they explore the inner relationship between what they mentally intend to do and what they actually do.
OK, so can you explain how a Feldenkrais practitioner can get your average Westerner with tight hips to sit comfortably in the lotus position? Keep in mind that in the context of yoga, the lotus position is far from a "complicated maneuver", but a very basic position. A complicated maneuver would be something like going into handstand, dropping your feet over into a backbend, and then coming back up into a handstand, stopping in the this pose along the way.

Quote:
This leads to deep exploration of "how" they are instructing their bodies. In the process, they usually discover that they weren't telling their bodies exactly what they thought. They were telling their bodies to do much more than they intended. Which is why most people find yoga very difficult and why it requires stretching. The yoga instructor I mentioned before had pain doing yoga, despite many years of experience. After he learned Feldenkrais, he was able to do the postures without strecthing and without pain.
It sounds like you aren't all that familiar with yoga. Stretching is not something you want to avoid in yoga, in fact it is one the main things you are tying to do. If you are feeling pain, it is not because you are stretching, it is because you are over-stretching. Pretty much any competent yoga teacher could tell you that. If your friend had this problem for many years then I suspect that he did not have very good yoga instruction. You don't necessarily need Feldenkrais to fix this, you just need a good yoga teacher.
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Old 10-31-2007, 08:13 AM   #49
David Orange
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Re: Feldenkrais, Nature and Martial Response

Yeah...

The point is that Feldenkrais can help one improve any activity, including martial arts and including the kind of things Mike is describing. It's not an argument about superiority of anything or anyone over any other thing or person.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.esotericorange.com
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