Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-25-2006, 03:15 PM   #1
Guilty Spark
 
Guilty Spark's Avatar
Location: Flordia
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 300
United_States
Offline
Difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai

I've tried to find my own answer with the search function but I'm not comming across it. Hopefully I didn't miss it and have to eat egg.

Could someone tell me what the difference between Yoshinkan Aikido and Aikikai Aikido is?

Different belts, different views, different techniques etc.. or something else?
Where are they different and where are they the same?
(Hopefully it isn't a touchy subject)


Cheers

Grant

Last edited by Guilty Spark : 06-25-2006 at 03:26 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2006, 04:22 PM   #2
Don_Modesto
Dojo: Messores Sensei (Largo, Fl.)
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,267
Offline
Re: Difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai

Quote:
Grant Wagar wrote:
I've tried to find my own answer with the search function but I'm not comming across it. Hopefully I didn't miss it and have to eat egg.

Could someone tell me what the difference between Yoshinkan Aikido and Aikikai Aikido is?

Different belts, different views, different techniques etc.. or something else?
Where are they different and where are they the same?
(Hopefully it isn't a touchy subject)


Cheers

Grant
Yeah. I'm quick to direct folks to it, but I'll admit that the search functions on these boards are often sort of lackluster. Hope this helps:

http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17385

Don J. Modesto
St. Petersburg, Florida
------------------------
http://www.theaikidodojo.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2006, 11:35 PM   #3
xuzen
 
xuzen's Avatar
Dojo: None at the moment - on hiatus
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 965
Malaysia
Offline
Re: Difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai

Quote:
grant wrote:
Could someone tell me what the difference between Yoshinkan Aikido and Aikikai Aikido is?
Grant,
I will only do this for you, since you are still a noob.

Differences

Boon.

SHOMEN-ATE (TM), the solution to 90% of aikido and life's problems.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2006, 01:14 AM   #4
batemanb
 
batemanb's Avatar
Dojo: Seibukan Aikido UK
Location: body in UK, heart still in Japan
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,029
Offline
Re: Difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai

The differences are everything..........and nothing. In my limited exposure to Yoshinkan the main difference is the training methodology and some of the technique names. Other than that, they pretty much do the same thing I did at my old Aikikai club.


rgds

Bryan

A difficult problem is easily solved by asking yourself the question, "Just how would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2006, 02:28 AM   #5
TigerJK
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 23
Offline
Re: Difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai

The basic techniques have differences in angle and tension

Also, at the basic level, Yoshinkan is more squared when facing the opponent.

Training methodology and philosophy are also very different.

But as Shioda said, "Different path up, but same mountain-top."
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2006, 07:06 AM   #6
philipsmith
Dojo: Ren Shin Kan
Location: Birmingham
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 312
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai

Agree with Brian. The only difference is really of teaching method (Yoshinkan is more "Kata" like below Shodan), ultimately the techniques are the same.
Interestingly when I began Aikiaki nomenclature was very like that used by Tomiki Sensei (kotemawashi, kote hinari etc) and became more like Yoshinkan (Ikkajo, Sankajo) as time went on.

I know that if when I'm at "multi-style" Aikido seminars I often end up practising with the Yoshinkan guys even though I'm an Aikikai "softy"
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2006, 10:45 AM   #7
Guilty Spark
 
Guilty Spark's Avatar
Location: Flordia
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 300
United_States
Offline
Re: Difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai

Awesome guys thanks. (And thanks Xu Wenfung, let the pain commence)

I'm looking at attempting to teach myself while I'm away for half a year. I really don't want to miss out on that training time. I found some buddies in judo willing to let me practice with them which is great (where I'll be returning the favor).

I was planning on using some books I picked up, this site (work project anyone?) and even an aikido computer program. Problem (and reason for my question) is that some of the books and this program teaches aikikai aikido vice the yoshinkan I've been learning. I wasn't sure if mixing the styles would be disastrous or how well they would work together. Sounds like it's doable though.

I DO realize the risks involved regarding learning the wrong or poor techniques but I think I can make it work. I'm quite skilled at unlearning mistakes

Any advice comments or opinions would be appreciated of course.

Grant

Last edited by Guilty Spark : 06-26-2006 at 10:52 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2006, 10:57 AM   #8
wayneth
Dojo: Port Talbot Dojo
Location: Port Talbot
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 74
Wales
Offline
Re: Difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai

I don't think that there is a real big difference between these two systems of Aikido. They both more or less do the same techniques, except which is probably the biggest stylistic difference is that they perform the techniques a little bit different i.e. Aikikai perform Nikyo Ura on the shoulder, while Yoshinkan perform it almost like holding a sword etc.
Also I find that they both emphasis the same basic principles i.e. Atemi, Tenkan etc. where the only difference is on this is that they teach them on a different level/way (i think?)
Wayne
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2006, 11:53 AM   #9
odudog
Dojo: Dale City Aikikai
Location: VA
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 375
Offline
Re: Difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai

It is possible to study from the Aikikai books and program and convert the techniques to the Yoshinkan version. I do just the opposite. The main difference that I notice on my Yoshinkan DVDs are that Yoshinkan tends to move in and "X". A quick example: Tenchinage: I was taught to get off the line then walk straight as I throw uke backwards {if uke is not totally off balance then turn your hips away from uke}, however, I notice the Yoshinkan gets off the line then walks diagonally behind uke throwing him backwards. I've noticed a hip atemi being applied to uke from various techniques due to this "X" movement.

The nikkyo ura version that Aikikai does works great when uke is empty handed but you wouldn't want to do this if he had a knife in his hand, instead, you would have to switch to the Yoshinkan version.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2006, 04:01 PM   #10
NagaBaba
 
NagaBaba's Avatar
Location: Wild, deep, deadly North
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,122
Offline
Re: Difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai

Quote:
Grant Wagar wrote:
Awesome guys thanks. (And thanks Xu Wenfung, let the pain commence)

I'm looking at attempting to teach myself while I'm away for half a year. I really don't want to miss out on that training time. I found some buddies in judo willing to let me practice with them which is great (where I'll be returning the favor).

Grant
I think it will be VERY good experience (regardless of aikido style), having judo folks as uke.
Courage!!

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2007, 07:22 PM   #11
Nikopol
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 96
Offline
Re: Difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai

Checked out the link to the other thread relating to AIki-elves and came to the conclusion that it was a waste of time if you are looking for a serious answer. I was thinking of eventually starting a blog about this as I have studied both...

But I had a list of little things.

In Yoshinkan, shout Osu!
In AIkikai, never shout Osu.

Yoshinkan: Shite and Uke
Aikikai: Nage and Uke

Yoshinkan: Uke kiais at grab. Shite Kiais at atemi, throw, and pin.
AIkikai, no kiai.

The reason Yoshinkan kiai .. supposed to be to force Kokyu. (breathing)
The reason Aikikai does not kiai ... too busy doing kokyu.

Yoshinkan... "your foot is three inches to the left!"
AIkikai... let your footwork follow your center.

Yoshinkan... "wrong!"
Aikikai... "that will also work.."

Yoshinkan: taking ukemi from Sensei: Itai!
Aikikai: taking ukemi from Sensei: Itai!

Yoshinkan: Hiyaku (flying) ukemi.
Aikikai: Rolling ukemi.

Yoshinkan: Ikkajo, Nikkajo, Sankajo, Yonkajo.
Aikikai: Ikkyo Nikkyo Sankyo Yonkyo Gokyo.

Yoshinkan: No Jo and bokken work at Tokyo Honbu dojo (no room)
Aikikai: No Jo and bokken work at Tokyo Honbu dojo (no room)

Both: Jo and Bokken work according to Sensei's discretion at other dojos.
Both: "work with Jo and Bokken are indespensible to learning Aikido".

Yoshinkan: applys shime with one knee up (knee closest to ukes head)
Aikikai: applies shime with both knees down.

Yoshinkan: always finishes Shihonage on one knee with a finishing Atemi.
Aikikai: will finish Shihonage from a standing position. (with center lowered)

Yoshinkan: call their art "Aikido" in explanations
Aikikai: call their art "Aikido" in explanations

Yoshinkan: Techniques have a 1, and a 2 form
Aikikai: Techniques have an Omote and an Ura form

Yoshinkan will start katatemochi (katatedoei) techniques in Ai hanmi
Aikikai will start katatedori (katatemochi) techniques in gyaku hanmi.

Anaylisis: the superficiality of the techniques causes a new crossover Aikidoka to think he knows nothing, and that the techniques are different.

After more exposure and insight one comes to see that the techniques are the same at heart.

When starting a technique in aihanmi, it is only a step away from gyakuhanmi. Vice-versa.

Training in Aikikai can actually make clear to you the essence of Yoshinkan and vice versa.

It is sort of like reading two texts on the same subject. You get different things, but you also get the same things.

Learn to focus on the essence, it is all Osensei underneath.

Never, never, never shout Osu in an Aikikai dojo.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2007, 03:25 AM   #12
grondahl
Dojo: Stockholms Aikidoklubb
Location: Stockholm
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 550
Sweden
Offline
Re: Difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai

Quote:
Vincent Nikopol wrote: View Post
Yoshinkan: Uke kiais at grab. Shite Kiais at atemi, throw, and pin.
AIkikai, no kiai.

The reason Yoshinkan kiai .. supposed to be to force Kokyu. (breathing)
The reason Aikikai does not kiai ... too busy doing kokyu.
Unless your local Aikikai dojo is teaching Iwama style aikido.Then apparantly itīs like Yoshinkan

Quote:
Yoshinkan... "your foot is three inches to the left!"
AIkikai... let your footwork follow your center.

Yoshinkan... "wrong!"
Aikikai... "that will also work.."
Unless your local Aikikai dojo is teaching Iwama style aikido. Then apparantly itīs like Yoshinkan
Quote:
Yoshinkan: Hiyaku (flying) ukemi.
Aikikai: Rolling ukemi.
Unless your local Aikikai dojo is teaching Iwama style aikido. Then apparantly itīs like Yoshinkan

Quote:
Yoshinkan will start katatemochi (katatedoei) techniques in Ai hanmi
Aikikai will start katatedori (katatemochi) techniques in gyaku hanmi.
Unless your local Aikikai dojo is teaching Iwama style aikido. Then you will do basic waza from both both ai hanmi (kosa dori) and gyaku hanmi katatedori
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2007, 10:21 AM   #13
Nikopol
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 96
Offline
Re: Difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai

Quote:
Peter Gröndahl wrote: View Post
Unless your local Aikikai dojo is teaching Iwama style aikido.Then apparantly itīs like Yoshinkan
I am speaking from experience in Yoshinkan and Aikikai dojos in Japan. There will be differences but those who know what I am trying to say will not keep repeating the same sentance about Iwama style. Sounds like you are 'apparantly' an expert in Iwama.

Apparantly congratulations.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2007, 10:34 AM   #14
aikispike
Dojo: Yoshinkan
Location: Toronto
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 93
Canada
Offline
Re: Difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai

Quote:
Vincent Nikopol wrote: View Post

But I had a list of little things.

.
great list.

OSU
Spike

Last edited by aikispike : 09-27-2007 at 10:35 AM. Reason: i cant speil good

--
Michael Kimeda
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2007, 11:39 AM   #15
Steven
 
Steven's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Yoshinkan Sacramento - Seikeikan Dojo
Location: Orangevale, CA
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 602
United_States
Offline
Re: Difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai

Oh come on people. We all know the biggest difference between the Yoshinkai and Aikikai is Spike Kimeda is a whole lot better looking that Don J. Modesto, Szczepan Janczuk or anyone else in the Aikikai for that matter. Well, maybe with the exception of all the fine looking Aiki-Ladies out there.

:-)

:: puts on flame suit ::
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2007, 12:04 PM   #16
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
Offline
Re: Difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai

Oh common Steven, I look better than Spike! :O

Oh, wait a minute, I'm not Aikikai....

B,
R

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2007, 05:02 PM   #17
Walker
 
Walker's Avatar
Dojo: 光道館・叢雲道場
Location: Pacific Wonderland
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 217
United_States
Offline
Re: Difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai

Quote:
Yoshinkan... "wrong!"
Aikikai... "that will also work.."
Bwa ha ha ha! Now that's funny.

Also:
Yoshinkan: Gangsters
Aikikai: Politicians


-Doug Walker
光道館 高村派新道楊心流
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2007, 09:40 PM   #18
Keith R Lee
Location: Alabama
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 219
United_States
Offline
Re: Difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai

Quote:
Vincent Nikopol wrote: View Post

Yoshinkan... "wrong!"
Aikikai... "that will also work.."
Ohhhhh.....funny cause it's true. I got a kick out of that!

Keith Lee
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2007, 10:21 PM   #19
Shannon Frye
Dojo: Aikido Fellowship of VA / Chesapeake Va
Location: Virginia
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 181
United_States
Offline
Re: Difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai

I asked this same question not too long ago -

Here's the link -

http://aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13174

"In the end there can be only one"

www.AikidoFellowship.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2007, 12:10 AM   #20
Christopher Gee
 
Christopher Gee's Avatar
Dojo: United Traditional Aikido
Location: Somerset
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 57
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai

The differences?? Ulimately its the spelling...

YOSHINKAN/AIKIKAI

Regards,

Heiho wa heiho nari - Otake Risuke
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2007, 12:34 AM   #21
Aikibu
Dojo: West Wind Dojo Santa Monica California
Location: Malibu, California
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,295
United_States
Offline
Re: Difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai

Quote:
Peter Gröndahl wrote: View Post
Unless your local Aikikai dojo is teaching Iwama style aikido.Then apparantly itīs like Yoshinkan

Unless your local Aikikai dojo is teaching Iwama style aikido. Then apparantly itīs like Yoshinkan

Unless your local Aikikai dojo is teaching Iwama style aikido. Then apparantly itīs like Yoshinkan

Unless your local Aikikai dojo is teaching Iwama style aikido. Then you will do basic waza from both both ai hanmi (kosa dori) and gyaku hanmi katatedori
Along with Iwama there are many flavors of "Aikikai" Aikido...Thanks Peter for pointing this out.

William Hazen
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2007, 12:35 AM   #22
Nikopol
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 96
Offline
Re: Difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai

Quote:
Christopher Gee wrote: View Post
The differences?? Ulimately its the spelling...

YOSHINKAN/AIKIKAI

Regards,
That is very observant...
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2007, 05:17 AM   #23
KamiKaze_Evolution
Location: Kuala Lumpur
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 125
Malaysia
Offline
Re: Difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai

Some of Aikikai dojos do spiritual excersice, such as funakogi, furitama, kodotama, chinkon, etc. But whole the Yoshinkan is 0% spiritual, it's very safety for monothiests and evenly i am a monothiest as well. And explainations of "ki" in Yoshinkan and Aikikai are different, "ki" explanation of Yoshinkan is quite simple and it mentioned in Total Aikido book by Gozo Shioda. (Ki is mastery of balance)

KamiKaze
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2007, 04:21 PM   #24
Christopher Gee
 
Christopher Gee's Avatar
Dojo: United Traditional Aikido
Location: Somerset
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 57
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai

Quote:
Vincent Nikopol wrote: View Post
That is very observant...
No need to be mean..... everyone knows KI IS BEST.... ROAR!

Heiho wa heiho nari - Otake Risuke
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2007, 07:52 AM   #25
roadster
 
roadster's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Santa Barbara
Location: Santa Barbara, California
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 94
United_States
Offline
Re: Difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai

One wears cute little patches on their GI and the other doesn't?
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Aikido DVDs and Video Downloads - by George Ledyard Sensei & other great teachers from AikidoDVDS.Com



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Aikido in Amsterdam, Terry Lax style... tiyler_durden General 11 11-03-2008 08:31 AM
What if the school is not Aikikai assoc TeachmeAikido General 20 09-29-2005 08:41 PM
Aikikai? Yoshinkan? WilliamWessel Training 2 03-18-2003 11:20 PM
Yoshinkan Vs Aikikai Terminilogies aries admin Language 5 07-25-2002 09:12 PM
Aikikai vs Yoshinkan taro General 4 08-21-2001 01:53 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:19 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate