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Old 09-21-2007, 08:20 PM   #51
Dan Austin
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Re: Wave Motion Theory

Quote:
Erick Mead wrote: View Post
You may not chose to study things in this way, and more power to you, but, as I said, I was not the first to go technical in this discussion.
It looks like you will spread this pollution in any thread if you can crowbar angular momentum into the discussion. Why not join in and discuss how to do something? If this fetish of yours hasn't given any results, you're wasting everyone's time with these eyesores. I can certainly skip them, but just FYI it comes across as a really sad cry for attention.
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Old 09-21-2007, 09:42 PM   #52
Erick Mead
 
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Re: Wave Motion Theory

Quote:
Dan Austin wrote: View Post
It looks like you will spread this pollution in any thread if you can crowbar angular momentum into the discussion. Why not join in and discuss how to do something? If this fetish of yours hasn't given any results, you're wasting everyone's time with these eyesores. I can certainly skip them, but just FYI it comes across as a really sad cry for attention.
How to do something? There is simply doing or not doing. Rob, Mike, Dan and I agree on one thing, at least -- DOING anything does not happen here. The HOW of what is done can be discussed in terms of the principles underlying what is done. Understanding the principles does happen here if approached openly.

The only way to understand anything is find it yourself. Since I do not write for your benefit, how I come across is of no consequence to me, but apparently concerns you more than it should.

"How" is about extending what we are doing to other things than what we have done. That is what I am doing. Some may find this way suitable, others not; if not, what I write and think about is not intended for you. I leave you whatever path seems best to you, with my blessings. A mental landscape that can interest itself in a theory involving waves, directly invites my observations. One can only pretend to imagine angular momentum as a fetish and pollution to that discussion, unless from a position of ignorance. Experience alone is limited by that experience. Experience informed by principle leads to novel experience. Takemusu.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 09-21-2007, 10:11 PM   #53
Dan Austin
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Re: Wave Motion Theory

Quote:
Erick Mead wrote: View Post
How to do something? There is simply doing or not doing. Rob, Mike, Dan and I agree on one thing, at least -- DOING anything does not happen here. The HOW of what is done can be discussed in terms of the principles underlying what is done. Understanding the principles does happen here if approached openly.

The only way to understand anything is find it yourself. Since I do not write for your benefit, how I come across is of no consequence to me, but apparently concerns you more than it should.

"How" is about extending what we are doing to other things than what we have done. That is what I am doing. Some may find this way suitable, others not; if not, what I write and think about is not intended for you. I leave you whatever path seems best to you, with my blessings. A mental landscape that can interest itself in a theory involving waves, directly invites my observations. One can only pretend to imagine angular momentum as a fetish and pollution to that discussion, unless from a position of ignorance. Experience alone is limited by that experience. Experience informed by principle leads to novel experience. Takemusu.
Blah blah blah blah. Blah blah. Blah blah blah. And now it's "Rob, Mike, Dan and I". Uh, no. Rob posts videos, Mike tries to explain what he does, Dan Harden has people meet up with him. I'm betting they all have skills, and that you for all your babble having nothing that's different than Aikido in Anytown. So what good does a chemical analysis of Ueshiba's urine sample do anybody else? Should we talk about mitochondria and aerobic vs anaerobic metabolism in Aikido practice? Diet maybe? This thread is about Yoseikan Budo and a point of interest is the origin and/or any commonality between it and what Rob and Mike talk about. At this point there was some idle curiosity as to whether you realize you have a pathological need to fluff your feathers inappropriately in public, but I'm past that. *PLONK*
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Old 09-22-2007, 01:55 AM   #54
Tim Fong
 
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Re: The Wave Motion/Theory

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David Orange wrote: View Post
Tim, that looks like a karate-type form that Hiroo Sensei must have created. It seems to have elements similar to sanchin and tensho, but, obviously, is neither of those. This was not included in Minoru Sensei's yoseikan. His katas (except happo ken) all resembled traditional judo and jujutsu forms. Since Hiroo is a master of wado ryu (and, I think, some other karate styles), his approach seems much more strongly influenced by karate and this form looks to me like something he developed, himself.

As to whether it's typical solo training for yoseikan budo, I'd have to say, from my encounters with Hiroo Sensei's system, it looks pretty typical.

Hope that helps.

Best to you.

David
David,

Thanks. The video was interesting to me specifically because it resembled some Okinawan karate I have seen. I would guess (and could be wrong later-- I'm okay with that) that he's using the attributes/strength from that conditioning to power his other movements. Sort of like what some people are trying to do now with the sanchin they are learning from Ushiro Kenji.

I really like what I've seen of Yoseikan Budo, from the perspective of integrating weapons, grappling and striking.
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Old 09-22-2007, 05:41 AM   #55
dps
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Re: The Wave Motion/Theory

This thread has been viewed 1,474 times, posted to 53 times. The views expressed about the topic of the thread by Eric or anyone else is not just to satisfy one person. If you don't like what someone else is saying, then don't respond to them or else ignore them. All posts are useful except personal attacks.

David
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Old 09-22-2007, 08:49 AM   #56
David Orange
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Re: The Wave Motion/Theory

Quote:
Tim Fong wrote: View Post
The video was interesting to me specifically because it resembled some Okinawan karate I have seen. I would guess (and could be wrong later-- I'm okay with that) that he's using the attributes/strength from that conditioning to power his other movements. Sort of like what some people are trying to do now with the sanchin they are learning from Ushiro Kenji.
And when you consider that the man in that video (Hiroo Mochizuki) is over seventy years old, it adds a little dimension.

It does look a lot like Okinawan karate, some of the more subtle kind. But, of course, Hiroo Mochizuki will find commonalities among the arts and then express those in his own way. He's really something. I don't know him that well. I knew his father and can see some commonality, but they are also very different in many ways.

Quote:
Tim Fong wrote: View Post
I really like what I've seen of Yoseikan Budo, from the perspective of integrating weapons, grappling and striking.
It also seems that Hiroo Mochizuki was much of the driving force behind his father's move in that direction. Of course, Minoru Mochizuki had been working a long time with the truth that aikido comes from the sword and he had cross-trained in all the major Japanese arts as well as most of the minor ones, but as I understand it, it was really Hiroo who began using the term yoseikan budo as he blended all the arts increasingly into a single expression. largely unified around aikido and karate. His father began using the term but he organized the arts technically more around judo than karate and the resulting art is different. Minoru Mochizuki once told me that he had tried to recreate the gyokushin ryu, of which he was then the only living rank-holder and that was a low rank (around nidan, maybe). So now there is no one, to my knowledge, with rank in gyokushin ryu but we might ought to think of his "old" yoseikan budo as "gyokushin" and Hiroo's art as the real and original "yoseikan budo."

There are many elements in that yoseikan budo that irritate budo traditionalists, including many of the practitioners of Minoru Sensei's total style but one thing that impresses me more as time goes by is the "all-out fighting" type of attacks you see in many of the videos as opposed to the "one-attack-at-a-time" approach we practiced in the father's dojo. As I've said before, if you didn't neutralize the attacker on the first attack, he would immediately follow up and follow up and follow up, but in Hiroo's style, it seems that the attacker enters with five attacks in a split second, followed by twenty-five follow-ups in the next half second. That's far more realistic, though some of the padded-sword demos show the attacker keeping on even after he has been hit by the "sword," which I can't say I understand.

In any case, my meetings with and observations of Hiroo Mochizuki have always been impressive as he gets down to tiny details and is always concerned with developing a strong body and performing tehcniques and ukemi in ways that protect the body much more than traditional martial arts, which can actually damage the body when they place form over function. Hiroo Sensei is not afraid to change the form to support the function.

Best to you.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
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Old 09-22-2007, 12:52 PM   #57
phil farmer
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Re: The Wave Motion/Theory

Tim,

I can answer your question now about the demonstration on Youtube that you posted. Shihan is doing Hasshaku ken Yodan from the series of kata that make up the curriculum of Yoseikan Budo. The Hasshakuken kata (1-5) are kata that demonstrate the throws and joint locks of yoseikan budo. That particular kata is intended to demonstrate the breathing (very gutteral) and muscle tension/release that accompanies each throw (projection) or punch (atemi). That demonstration was at the 2007 World Cup in Brussels and Shihan makes for an awesome demonstrator at age 71, especially the incredible muscle tone he shows. And he seems to love to take his gi top off as often as possible to demonstrate that muscle tone. The muscle control and breathing are part of the undulation motion. As you think about this motion, all who are posting here, please try to remember, it is a natural movement and a natural feeling but demands a very relaxed body in order to do it. Shihan is quite adamant that Yoseikan Budo should be good for your body (okay, so not the joint lock if you are receiving it but you get the idea). By the way, that is me sitting in the first chair of referees taking the pictures.

Phil Farmer
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Old 09-22-2007, 05:13 PM   #58
Tim Fong
 
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Re: The Wave Motion/Theory

Thanks Phil.

Tim
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