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Old 09-10-2007, 12:03 PM   #51
Aikibu
Dojo: West Wind Dojo Santa Monica California
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Re: Effectiveness of Aikido

Quote:
Budd Yuhasz wrote: View Post
I also dislike the notion that studying aikido instead of mma somehow automatically makes you a better human being. I think that's hogwash and basically a thinly veiled ingroup/outgroup division built on a house of cards when, frankly, there's things that people from both camps can learn from each other.

Think of it this way, it's best to not be like the guy that goes to church who therefore feels like they then are entitled to be an arse the rest of the time. Just training in aikido doesn't mean that 1) You are spiritually superior to anybody. 2) You can use your skills in real self-defense situations (i.e. Steven Seagal movies are just movies) 3) You get any kind of free pass to speak in flowery language/metaphor and expect anyone to understand you.

I enjoy training aikido, but honestly examining what you're training for and the subsequent results that the training yields is also a worthwhile endeavor (and no falling back on "My sensei says", either -- at some point you need to work it out for yourself).

Okay, so it's Monday morning, I'm cranky and I haven't had my coffee . . .
Right on Budd...All the Arts have thier faults including Aikido.

Since I've had my coffee I would like to help you make a bigger point.

Why is it Folks have to knock any Martial Art that is not thiers??? Why the single mindedness and insecurity???

To me that is a sign of Black Belt Disease...

Last night I watched UFC75 with great interest. I am a big fan. I practice Aikido...Study Submission/MMA under a student of Gene LeBell...Have started to look into Kali...Spar at the local Karate Dojo to teach some students how to hit (Atemi) and I just wish I had more time.

When I was growing up my Idols were Waterman. In the Surfing world Watermen were guys who not only surfed, they dive, swim, sail, kayaked, ect.ect. In other words they did everything they could to learn about the ocean.

In the Martial Arts Bruce Lee comes to mind The style of no style is still my inspiration....I was lucky to start as a small boy back in 1967 with Chuck Norris and have moved on from there....

Aikido is like the Ocean to me...Everything I do revolves around it...No where in my mindset does the thought "My art is better than yours" appear. It's not about being better than you.... It's about making me a better human being and letting the Martial process transform me...

LOL Maybe I have had too much coffee.

William Hazen
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Old 09-10-2007, 01:02 PM   #52
Cyrijl
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Re: Effectiveness of Aikido

Something that has been said before but needs repeating is "Plans Change Upon Contact."

People hypothesize that a real fight would be X,Y, or Z. Or that in a real fight the other person would be armed. Or that you should always be armed. All of this is pretty irrelavant to the bigger issue of self-preservation.

What annoyed me about the aikido dojo I attended was the lack of physical conditioning. I am not talking about running for 2 miles or lifting weights, I mean the total lack of emphasis on being in good physical shape. Having a good fitness routine and paying attention to your surroundings are much more valuable than whether or not your aikido is effective.

All of the "MMA" places I have trained (Muay Thai, BJJ, Judo, Krav) have placed alot of emphasis on being in shape. If you look at the old Aikido clips, most of the students were in good shape. Today however, the picture is much different.

melior est canis vivus leone mortuo
Bog svsami!!!
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Old 09-10-2007, 01:39 PM   #53
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Re: Effectiveness of Aikido

Quote:
William Hazen wrote: View Post
Aikido is like the Ocean to me...Everything I do revolves around it...No where in my mindset does the thought "My art is better than yours" appear. It's not about being better than you.... It's about making me a better human being and letting the Martial process transform me...

LOL Maybe I have had too much coffee.
Right on, back at you, William I think we are of a similar mind regarding making our aikido as good as it can be, while at the same time playing with others. I appreciate your input and your experience (heck, I'm downright jealous) of Nishio Sensei's interpretation of aiki.

Joseph, I like your thoughts on physical conditioning and also agree there as well.

Best/Budd

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Old 09-10-2007, 02:36 PM   #54
Will Prusner
 
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Re: Effectiveness of Aikido

I have read this entire thread... it reminds me of one of those trick math questions a teacher would sometime slip into a quiz, which was unanswerable due to a missing piece of information... very frustrating!

I have been receiving instruction in Aikido for the past 6 months or so (a total noob)... off the mat for now, while i recover from knee surgery (although i still go to class, because i believe there is an opportunity to learn (which has more to do with mindset than anything), there is ALWAYS an opportunity for learning ).

Effective against what or who?

O'sensei claimed that the only true enemy was within ourselves.

Should the question be, (a) Is aikido effective at combatting our internal enemy?, OR - (b) Is it effective against the individual who is trying to pummel us with his MMA prowess, who may or may not have found their way into our path, had we taken the time to confront our internal enemy? OR - (c)Is it effective against the junkie who's trying to steal our collective wallets.

I don't know the answer to the larger question, or any of the smaller questions. Although I do know a gun would work great for scenarios b and c.

I am learning Aikido because I like learning Aikido, I enjoy the process, it makes me feel good. I am more than capable of tearing flesh, spilling blood and claiming human lives, like every other animal on the earth, I am capable of defending myself - my ancestors have proved that for tens of thousands of years... All of our ancestors have... that's why we are here, able to discuss these interesting conundrums... It is also not the point.

Two statements that have been applicable through all of my experiences (martial and otherwise) and have ALWAYS held true were expressed by Bruce Lee:

I paraphrase, (but if you haven't already read "The Tao of Jeet Kune Do", what are you waiting for?)

1. Rigidly staying within any "style" will eventually be your downfall. This is as applicable to fighting as it is to loftier endeavours, like creating art and music.

2. Accept and incorporate any techniques and philosophies that are useful to YOU. Reject those that are useless (however, reject nothing until you fully understand it).

These statements are at the core of the ideal by which i attempt to conduct myself through this life. I am not studying Aikido so that I can be a master of aikido (i would certainly love to have that degree of understanding and insight in to the art, however). I study Aikido because I want to become a better human being, and because I am fortunate enough to have individuals with skills that I admire, who are willing to teach.

As a parting thought: Aikido on it's own, has no effectiveness, it requires the individual to decide how they will incorporate the technique and philosophies into their movements and experiences. This decision is made "on the fly", it is the spontaneous and "Divine" (creative and intelligent) nature of the techniques that O'sensei referenced.

To say that Aikido is either wholly effective or ineffective is kind of ignorant, in my opinion. It has many qualities and defects. The only way to enhance the qualities and remove the defects is to use the greatest weapon of all time, the human mind (of course, used properly, the human mind can, in most situations, be used to avoid a physical confrontation in the first place.) Be limitless.

...and if you are concerned that you might be in imminent danger of being attacked by a violent individual who will attempt to use martial arts against you... then buy a gun and learn it's proper use and strategy.

-Will
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Old 09-10-2007, 04:42 PM   #55
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Re: Effectiveness of Aikido

Quote:
Joseph Connolly wrote: View Post
What annoyed me about the aikido dojo I attended was the lack of physical conditioning. I am not talking about running for 2 miles or lifting weights, I mean the total lack of emphasis on being in good physical shape. Having a good fitness routine and paying attention to your surroundings are much more valuable than whether or not your aikido is effective.
That is mostly solo training and should be done outside of the dojo. And I am talking about lifting weights, sumo stomps, aiki-taiso, running, situps, pushups, etc. You should not rely on the dojo atmosphere to provide conditioning that can be done on your own. Unless perhaps you are an uchideshi in which case you're probably gettin all you need at the dojo.
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Old 09-11-2007, 06:12 AM   #56
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Re: Effectiveness of Aikido

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Ricky Wood wrote: View Post
That is mostly solo training and should be done outside of the dojo. And I am talking about lifting weights, sumo stomps, aiki-taiso, running, situps, pushups, etc. You should not rely on the dojo atmosphere to provide conditioning that can be done on your own. Unless perhaps you are an uchideshi in which case you're probably gettin all you need at the dojo.
I both agree and disagree with this - I believe that it's important for the student to learn, in the dojo, proper form for the execution of many of the exercises you mention above. I also believe that a conditioning period during each class will allow the instructor to check the student's progress in the form of the exercise and the ability to do the exercise.

That being said, I also think that the student then needs to obsessively work out on their own outside of class periods, to include conditioning, other "bodywork", waza, etc.

Taikyoku Mind & Body
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Old 09-11-2007, 06:15 AM   #57
gdandscompserv
 
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Re: Effectiveness of Aikido

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Budd Yuhasz wrote: View Post
I both agree and disagree with this - I believe that it's important for the student to learn, in the dojo, proper form for the execution of many of the exercises you mention above. I also believe that a conditioning period during each class will allow the instructor to check the student's progress in the form of the exercise and the ability to do the exercise.

That being said, I also think that the student then needs to obsessively work out on their own outside of class periods, to include conditioning, other "bodywork", waza, etc.
Agreed.
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