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Old 09-07-2007, 11:52 AM   #276
wildaikido
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Re: What technique would you apply to neutralize Brazilian Jujitsu attacker

Quote:
Daniel Blanco wrote: View Post
Aikido will work well if you concentrate on distance,tech,Off Balancing and throwing.Do not try to pin,because BJJ artist train to fight on the ground,your technic( small circle & tight no slack) Ok.Now to all who read this message RESPECT THE ART OF BJJ,because these artist will put your lights out.I have a great respect for BJJ,and all arts,and so should everyone.
Who is disrespecting BJJers?

Graham Wild
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Old 09-07-2007, 11:55 AM   #277
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Re: What technique would you apply to neutralize Brazilian Jujitsu attacker

Quote:
I enjoyed the training, but like I said, Peter was very into the competition, so it doesn't really gel with my "philosophy" I really just want to learn techniques to improve my Yoseikan.
You just haven't had enough practice tuning stuff out

I do little things that you're not meant to all the time... (within the bounds of judo, of course). Had I know that was what you were interested, we could have discussed using some of those JJJ techs of yours in newaza. And I'm sure the BJJ guys wouldn't mind either.

It's a good place to train: they go hard but safe. Your only other real option for that level of vigour (and beyond) is UWA....but...yeah: it's rough

There's also some good training at Subiaco PCYC, when there are enough seniors on the mat. I train kata down there on Sundays (which I suspect you'd enjoy) and occassionally do the Thursday class.

Quote:
YOU MENTIONED SOME KAWAISHI PEOPLE!!! PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD REMENTION THEM TO ME! I HAVE KAWAISHI'S BOOKS, THE MAN IS A LEGEND!

Shin kyoku, deep breath...

Regards,
http://www.users.bigpond.com/JISHIN/martial-art.htm

There's also a sambo club down that way, FWIW

What's this thing at ECU? I haven't seen any flyers around campus, although I know of a BJJ/MMA club

Last edited by bob_stra : 09-07-2007 at 12:01 PM.
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Old 09-07-2007, 12:01 PM   #278
wildaikido
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Re: What technique would you apply to neutralize Brazilian Jujitsu attacker

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Bob Strahinjevich wrote: View Post
http://www.users.bigpond.com/JISHIN/martial-art.htm

There's also a sambo club down that way, FWIW
Oh now I remember, If I could get down that way I would, now I know they are Kawaishi people! Way to far from Joondalup!

Quote:
Bob Strahinjevich wrote: View Post
What's this thing at ECU? I haven't seen any flyers around campus, although I know of a BJJ/MMA club
I run a Yoseikan training group. I have had way too many students, up to 16 on Tuesday, so I have not put any new flyers up. Last year I had 6, and then all of a sudden after a year (literally) it jumped up to 14! I say literally a year, as the Tuesday before was our 1 year celebration.

Regards,

Graham Wild
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Old 09-07-2007, 12:09 PM   #279
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Re: What technique would you apply to neutralize Brazilian Jujitsu attacker

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Graham Wild wrote: View Post
I run a Yoseikan training group. I have had way too many students, up to 16 on Tuesday, so I have not put any new flyers up. Last year I had 6, and then all of a sudden after a year (literally) it jumped up to 14! I say literally a year, as the Tuesday before was our 1 year celebration.

Regards,
Where are you guys training - at the sport and rec building? I might pop my head in and say hi.

Morcombe (state BJJ champion and IIRC purple belt) is also at ECU joondalup. There's quite a few MMA guys there too.

One of the lecturers in the Sports Science dept is a former Olympic level judoka too.

Small world.

PM seeing you're online - I have question to ask you
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Old 09-07-2007, 12:12 PM   #280
wildaikido
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Re: What technique would you apply to neutralize Brazilian Jujitsu attacker

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Bob Strahinjevich wrote: View Post
Where are you guys training - at the sport and rec building? I might pop my head in and say hi.

Morcombe (state BJJ champion and IIRC purple belt) is also at ECU joondalup. There's quite a few MMA guys there too.

One of the lecturers in the Sports Science dept is a former Olympic level judoka too.

Small world.
We are in the sports centre.

I did not know we had BJJ/MMA on campus, I have only seen some gokan ryu karate people

Who is the lecturer? I would love to see if I can convince him to take a class. I probably wouldn't succeed, but I would ask.

Regards,

Last edited by wildaikido : 09-07-2007 at 12:16 PM.

Graham Wild
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Old 09-07-2007, 12:16 PM   #281
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Re: What technique would you apply to neutralize Brazilian Jujitsu attacker

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Graham Wild wrote: View Post
We are in the sports centre.

Who is the lecturer? I would love to see if I can convince him to take a class. I probably wouldn't succeed, but I would ask.

Regards,
http://www.sebhs.ecu.edu.au/staff/cv/fiona_iredale.php
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Old 09-07-2007, 12:22 PM   #282
wildaikido
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Re: What technique would you apply to neutralize Brazilian Jujitsu attacker

I will try and speak with Fiona next week. I think I have met here at some faculty research functions. If she does not train else where, and would like to, I would love to have her teach me and the other trainees so judo.

The one thing I got from training under guys like Peter was I don't commit enough with my throws. It is just my desire not to hurt people

Several of us were going to train with Carlo, but he changed his senior class from Monday to Tuesday, which now clashes with our training. Oh well.

Regards,

Graham Wild
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Old 09-07-2007, 12:31 PM   #283
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Re: What technique would you apply to neutralize Brazilian Jujitsu attacker

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Graham Wild wrote: View Post
I will try and speak with Fiona next week. I think I have met here at some faculty research functions. If she does not train else where, and would like to, I would love to have her teach me and the other trainees so judo.

The one thing I got from training under guys like Peter was I don't commit enough with my throws. It is just my desire not to hurt people

Several of us were going to train with Carlo, but he changed his senior class from Monday to Tuesday, which now clashes with our training. Oh well.

Regards,
I believe Clive take classes at UWA on Fridays or Sat afternoons...you may enjoy his approach.

Of course, I'm not going to say no to another Kata partner on Sundays at subiaco either...so that's an option for you as well. Gareth focuses on broad scope of judo and IIRC is also dan ranked in jujitsu

I've sent you a PM (I think)...let me know <_<

Last edited by bob_stra : 09-07-2007 at 12:42 PM.
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Old 09-07-2007, 12:47 PM   #284
wildaikido
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Re: What technique would you apply to neutralize Brazilian Jujitsu attacker

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Bob Strahinjevich wrote: View Post
I believe Clive take classes at UWA on Fridays or Sat afternoons...you may enjoy his approach.

Of course, I'm not going to say no to another Kata partner on Sundays at subiaco either...so that's an option for you as well. Gareth focuses on broad scope of judo and IIRC is also dan ranked in jujitsu
Trent who is a judoka that trains with us mentioned a kata class at subi, this is why I wanted to train at Scarborough, as they were supposed to do kata after class on Tuesday.

I just notice Fiona is the secretary of Judo WA. I will have to go seek her out now

Regards,

Last edited by wildaikido : 09-07-2007 at 12:58 PM.

Graham Wild
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Old 09-07-2007, 01:17 PM   #285
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Re: What technique would you apply to neutralize Brazilian Jujitsu attacker

Hi folks,

Can I please ask everyone to move personal discussions not pertaining to the thread discussion on-hand to private messaging or private e-mail?

Thank you,

-- Jun

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Old 09-07-2007, 01:25 PM   #286
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Re: What technique would you apply to neutralize Brazilian Jujitsu attacker

To tie my tangents back into the topic at hand (sorry Jun ) I would say, learn judo to deal with BJJ (as I am trying to arrange more of). If possible, Kawaishi's method would be best (as I exclaimed). His method includes all the ne waza you would see in BJJ such as knee bars and ankle locks.

Regards,

Graham Wild
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Old 09-07-2007, 01:52 PM   #287
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Re: What technique would you apply to neutralize Brazilian Jujitsu attacker

I wouldn't say all the techniques seen in BJJ....not by quite a ways.

But certainly more than mainstream judo.

I wasn't aware a spontaneous discovery and sharing of knowledge was against forum protocol. If you prefer, we could continue this thread in the rapidly ugly direction it was beginning to spiral in? (BJJ vs aikido, sport vs art)?

Your point is taken however...so no more from me. Good luck Graham and let me know how you get on!
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Old 09-07-2007, 02:00 PM   #288
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Re: What technique would you apply to neutralize Brazilian Jujitsu attacker

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Bob Strahinjevich wrote: View Post
I wouldn't say all the techniques seen in BJJ....not by quite a ways.

But certainly more than mainstream judo.
To stay on topic... I am yet to see a BJJ technique that I have not seen done by Mifune, or Kawaishi or in Kosen Judo. The techniques are nothing new to me. I would say there may be some slight difference, leading to variations etc.

Hence the reason I suggest judo to deal with BJJ. The standing techniques will also help your aikido, as will the fact that you get a resisting opponent.

(Remember we have to stay on topic )

Regards,

Graham Wild
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Old 09-07-2007, 02:05 PM   #289
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Re: What technique would you apply to neutralize Brazilian Jujitsu attacker

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Graham Wild wrote: View Post
I was about to say, I would have thought you would have trained with them. But then I though, Yoshi was more of a Karateka, so he might not have been to heavy on the Judo. Didn't he teach kids judo?

Regards,

PS Yes, his name is Allen, or maybe Allan, or Alan... I don't know

Just looked him up, Allen it is.
I asked Allen to show us a few judo techniques one day but we never got around to doing anything.

I did learn the basic judo throws, chokes, locks and drills you see in Mochizuki's book however Yosh was a stickler for basics so we didn't venture out too far from kihon. I know he taught judo at UWA to the state team so he probably taught kids judo too. I just never heard about it.

Thing is although we had the karate, kenjutusu and judo elements in aikido we never really concentrated on any one of them for too long. It was always aikido. So I did separate classes in Yoseikan karate kobudo and iaido. Unfortunately at that time Yosh wasn't teaching judo as I would have signed up for that one too.
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Old 09-07-2007, 02:27 PM   #290
wildaikido
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Re: What technique would you apply to neutralize Brazilian Jujitsu attacker

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Darin Hyde wrote: View Post
I did learn the basic judo throws, chokes, locks and drills you see in Mochizuki's book however Yosh was a stickler for basics so we didn't venture out too far from kihon. I know he taught judo at UWA to the state team so he probably taught kids judo too. I just never heard about it.
Interesting, we do all of the hip throws (O'Goshi, Uki Goshi, Harai Goshi, Hane Goshi etc) and like I said, Sensei Hans says he teaches us what he learnt from Yoshi.

Quote:
Darin Hyde wrote: View Post
Thing is although we had the karate, kenjutusu and judo elements in aikido we never really concentrated on any one of them for too long. It was always aikido. So I did separate classes in Yoseikan karate kobudo and iaido. Unfortunately at that time Yosh wasn't teaching judo as I would have signed up for that one too.
I think this was probably because this is what Jan wanted. Hence this is what Yoshi's students wanted. I mean Branco is a big competition karate person, so I don't imagine he isn't a huge fan of Aikido. Similar to what you said about Roy.

I think this is one of the reasons I can walk into a judo dojo and fit it, were as they will heckle some other Aikido people. My experience was that they basically said see if what you do works.

Hence the reason I think this sort of judo cross training would help with an encounter with a BJJer.

Regards,

Graham Wild
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Old 09-07-2007, 02:45 PM   #291
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Re: What technique would you apply to neutralize Brazilian Jujitsu attacker

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Graham Wild wrote: View Post
To stay on topic... I am yet to see a BJJ technique that I have not seen done by Mifune, or Kawaishi or in Kosen Judo. The techniques are nothing new to me. I would say there may be some slight difference, leading to variations etc.
Paging Mr Fooks....Mr Micheal Fooks...

In the mean time....enjoy this idiotically long thread

http://tinyurl.com/38sdk6

The info you're after is from Frank Benn, from post 430 onwards. I can't load the whole thing because it makes my browser crash!

Note: this is a very old thread....BJJ has since progressed.

Quote:
Hence the reason I suggest judo to deal with BJJ. The standing techniques will also help your aikido, as will the fact that you get a resisting opponent.

(Remember we have to stay on topic )

Regards,
My overall recommendation would be for judo as well. Great standup, pretty good groundwork. With BJJ, there's a fair to middling chance you'd get little to no standing with great groundwork.

Horses for courses - YMMV
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Old 09-07-2007, 02:49 PM   #292
Ron Tisdale
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Re: What technique would you apply to neutralize Brazilian Jujitsu attacker

In Reality, I know squat all about BJJ, but I've been told some of the major differences from judo are

Positional dominance
rules
transitional flow

Hey Bob, I wonder what ever happened to Frank Benn? He was a stalwart on the old rec.martial-arts, and I really liked his posts, even when I disagreed with his opinion.

Sounded like he was a monster in the dojo too, which never hurts!
Best,
Ron

Last edited by Ron Tisdale : 09-07-2007 at 02:52 PM.

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Old 09-07-2007, 03:10 PM   #293
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Re: What technique would you apply to neutralize Brazilian Jujitsu attacker

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote: View Post
In Reality, I know squat all about BJJ, but I've been told some of the major differences from judo are

Positional dominance
rules
transitional flow

Hey Bob, I wonder what ever happened to Frank Benn? He was a stalwart on the old rec.martial-arts, and I really liked his posts, even when I disagreed with his opinion.

Sounded like he was a monster in the dojo too, which never hurts!
Best,
Ron
Frank's still around

http://youtube.com/watch?v=C_zN1aWwZxM

though I don't see him on RMA much. Not that I go there much myself either.
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Old 09-07-2007, 10:04 PM   #294
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Re: What technique would you apply to neutralize Brazilian Jujitsu attacker

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote: View Post
In Reality, I know squat all about BJJ, but I've been told some of the major differences from judo are

Positional dominance
rules
transitional flow
Arguably (depending on who you talk to) there may also be technical differences now, particularly with the folks who are focusing on bjj's application in the mma/submission wrestling sphere. Eddie Bravo's "rubber guard" comes to mind.

Regards,

Paul
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Old 09-07-2007, 11:09 PM   #295
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Re: What technique would you apply to neutralize Brazilian Jujitsu attacker

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Paul Watt wrote: View Post
Arguably (depending on who you talk to) there may also be technical differences now, particularly with the folks who are focusing on bjj's application in the mma/submission wrestling sphere. Eddie Bravo's "rubber guard" comes to mind.

Regards,

Paul
Paw, you need to get your butt over to the Geekground and answer my Cyttorak question, seeing Skarhead is AWOL

Ron
Yes, that's pretty much my feeling too.

Some very nice judo groundwork, in demo mode

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKq2ZUc2W68

Some very nice BJJ groundwork, in demo mode

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-oAWr4k1jw

There are much better examples on youtube, but I think this gives the flavour. Judo's newaza - AFAIK - is designed to flow on from a throw, break and arm, choke or pin an man, and end. Quickly. Prolonged ground battles were not the original intent?

Eg:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4u41omoNO4U

Holmes wrote a good article on it that you might remember

http://www.bestjudo.com/article6.shtml

Like I said, horses for courses. But they are palpably different if you've tried both. Not to say that skills in one don't translate to the other - or to aikido.

Fooks is a good guy to talk about that, as he's Yudanshaka is aikido, blue (purple by now, surely?) in BJJ under John Will (awesome jits) and also has done some judo in his time (IIRC).

There was a fun thread on RMA recently re: BJJ or Judo for SD that may be of merit too re: differences

Last edited by bob_stra : 09-07-2007 at 11:11 PM.
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Old 09-08-2007, 10:43 AM   #296
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Re: What technique would you apply to neutralize Brazilian Jujitsu attacker

alot of this is like distilling Chess and Checkers down to the basic elements and then saying they are the same.

Both use the same basic board, have the same number of pieces, require two players, oppose each other the same way etc.

Yet they are two separate and distinct games. Many similarities, but different enough to make it apples and oranges and seem stupid to have one guy line up playing checkers and the other one chess and trying to beat each other!

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Old 09-08-2007, 03:32 PM   #297
wildaikido
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Re: What technique would you apply to neutralize Brazilian Jujitsu attacker

I have one word for you...

Kimura!

Regards,

Graham Wild
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Old 09-08-2007, 06:10 PM   #298
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Re: What technique would you apply to neutralize Brazilian Jujitsu attacker

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Bob Strahinjevich wrote: View Post
Paw, you need to get your butt over to the Geekground and answer my Cyttorak question, seeing Skarhead is AWOL
LOL! I think Skarhead has answered it. Who are you on the GG?

Regards,

Paul
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Old 09-09-2007, 08:30 AM   #299
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Re: What technique would you apply to neutralize Brazilian Jujitsu attacker

Quote:
Bob Strahinjevich wrote: View Post
Paging Mr Fooks....Mr Micheal Fooks...
hey mate - sorry - just got back from the Will/Machado Nationals + Rigan seminar, so been off line. PM box is cleared.

wrt to everything in BJJ being in judo I believe the standard response is gogoplata no? I don't have more than a passing knowledge of judo but my impression is that while it's great (and there's a reason it's the standard respnse to the "what should I do" question on RMA) it's not as living as BJJ- where new techniques and strategies are being devleoped all the time. Whereas half guard used to be a last ditch attempt to stop the pass, there's now a dizzying array of attacking options. X-guard also comes to mind. The sheer volume of what's around in BJJ today that wasn't there even 4 years ago is boggling. Bravo's stuff comes to mind as well.

Good to see you back on this board bob.

"When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail"
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Old 09-09-2007, 10:19 AM   #300
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Re: What technique would you apply to neutralize Brazilian Jujitsu attacker

Yes my feelings too

But

Oh, Michael....why gogoplata! Anything but gogo

http://judoinfo.com/images/shime/kagatojime.gif

http://judoforum.com/index.php?showtopic=2797

LOL...let's just pretend you said Rubber guard or X guard or something like that because the point is valid.

Anyway...I can't remember what I wanted to PM you about, so I guess wasn't that important

How was the seminar / Nat'ls? Has John had enough sense to grade you upto purple yet or what?

Last edited by bob_stra : 09-09-2007 at 10:24 AM.
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