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Old 08-29-2007, 08:15 AM   #51
Roman Kremianski
Dojo: Toronto Aikikai
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Re: Wha' da..."

Quote:
Well, you can email any of the hombu instructors at Aikikai hombu. Just use the main address and they'll forward it to the right person.
Does he speak English?
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Old 08-29-2007, 08:17 AM   #52
Amir Krause
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Re: Wha' da..."

I think all who write here should have read the "No touch throw - again? OMG!!! " thread first:
http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showth...abe#post152524

Personally, I am not a student of Aikikai, or Ueshiba Aikido. So I would not have any problem in considering some Aikikai teacher or technique as BS (I actually have done this more then once).

Still, too many here assume they know the purpose of this SHOW, some even claim it is supposed to convey S.D. If they are right about the purpose of this DEMO, it is obviously BS. But, whoever said this was the purpose, and it is not aimed at showing something else (I once speculated it could show Uke developing sensitivity, one could think of other reasons too).

I have encountered several internet forums discussions about some picture or video, supposedly showing some M.A. Sensei demonstrate a technique with lots of flaws. Only to read someone say he was there when the picture\video were taken, and Sensei was just explaining and showing common mistakes. I once even posted pictures of some meeting we had, and some of the pictures were from such moments, because those explanations are often slower and easier to photograph, I wrote next to the picture that sensei is explaining mistakes in bold, and still some people had to point at Sensei mistakes ...

Thus, unless you know for sure the purpose behind a show, be careful commenting on it.

Amir
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Old 08-29-2007, 09:20 AM   #53
gregg block
 
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Re: Wha' da..."

[quote=Amir Krause;
Thus, unless you know for sure the purpose behind a show, be careful commenting on it.

Amir[/QUOTE]

I understand your point but Isn't the purpose of having a forum to comment on things such as this? We don't need to be 100% sure of anything in order to express our opinion based on our knowledge and experience. If we did this forum would be pretty thin and boring
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Old 08-29-2007, 11:08 AM   #54
Amir Krause
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Re: Wha' da..."

Quote:
Gregg Block wrote: View Post
I understand your point but Isn't the purpose of having a forum to comment on things such as this? We don't need to be 100% sure of anything in order to express our opinion based on our knowledge and experience. If we did this forum would be pretty thin and boring
Not neccesserily: it is a question of how many assumptions are you making (all know assumptions = ...).

From my point of view, thinking of this show as an indication of Aikido for S.D. is as foolish as thinking of a flower arrangment show as a means for S.D. It is way too much BS for me to believe any vetran in Aikido would try such a thing. So, I refuse to make such an assumption without any validation.

Amir
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Old 08-29-2007, 11:20 AM   #55
Mark Freeman
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Re: Wha' da..."

Quote:
Amir Krause wrote: View Post
Not neccesserily: it is a question of how many assumptions are you making (all know assumptions = ...).

From my point of view, thinking of this show as an indication of Aikido for S.D. is as foolish as thinking of a flower arrangment show as a means for S.D. It is way too much BS for me to believe any vetran in Aikido would try such a thing. So, I refuse to make such an assumption without any validation.

Amir
Good call, Amir.

regards,

Mark

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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Old 08-29-2007, 12:30 PM   #56
gregg block
 
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Re: Wha' da..."

Quote:
Amir Krause wrote: View Post
Not neccesserily: it is a question of how many assumptions are you making (all know assumpti

From my point of view, thinking of this show as an indication of Aikido for S.D. is as foolish as thinking of a flower arrangment show as a means for S.D. It is way too much BS for me to believe any vetran in Aikido would try such a thing. So, I refuse to make such an assumption without any validation.

Amir
I can't even begin to imagine what the purpose of such a show could be. When you find out let me know. Until then I'll stick with my assumption that it's the same mystic B.S. I've seen so many times throughout the martial arts..
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Old 08-29-2007, 01:01 PM   #57
Chris Li
 
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Re: Wha' da..."

Quote:
Roman Kremianski wrote: View Post
Does he speak English?
No idea, but I'm sure that there are Japanese speakers in Toronto who can translate for you.

Best,

Chris

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Old 08-29-2007, 02:10 PM   #58
Roman Kremianski
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Re: Wha' da..."

Are you just saying that because you know I ultimately won't bother?

Isn't there a brief/description up online somewhere written by him explaining the purpose of his demonstration? I would very much like to know, and I don't feel like traveling to Japan, emailing, phoning, contacting him by carrier pigeon, or enlisting any Japanese people.
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Old 08-29-2007, 02:54 PM   #59
Chris Li
 
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Re: Wha' da..."

Quote:
Roman Kremianski wrote: View Post
Are you just saying that because you know I ultimately won't bother?

Isn't there a brief/description up online somewhere written by him explaining the purpose of his demonstration? I would very much like to know, and I don't feel like traveling to Japan, emailing, phoning, contacting him by carrier pigeon, or enlisting any Japanese people.
Not that I know of...

Best,

Chris

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Old 08-29-2007, 09:52 PM   #60
Bronson
 
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Re: Wha' da..."

Quote:
Roman Kremianski wrote: View Post
Isn't there a brief/description up online somewhere written by him explaining the purpose of his demonstration? I would very much like to know, and I don't feel like traveling to Japan, emailing, phoning, contacting him by carrier pigeon, or enlisting any Japanese people.
Just to bust your chops a little ...if you're not willing to do anything to find out it doesn't really sound like you would "very much like to know".

Heck, I bet if you emailed him in English there would be somebody at the Aikikai who could translate it for him.

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
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Old 08-29-2007, 10:01 PM   #61
Roman Kremianski
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Re: Wha' da..."

Sarcasm doesn't really carry as well through forums.

And I'd say I'm mildly curious at best.
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Old 08-30-2007, 04:55 AM   #62
Amir Krause
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Re: Wha' da..."

Quote:
Gregg Block wrote: View Post
Quote:
Not neccesserily: it is a question of how many assumptions are you making (all know assumpti

From my point of view, thinking of this show as an indication of Aikido for S.D. is as foolish as thinking of a flower arrangment show as a means for S.D. It is way too much BS for me to believe any vetran in Aikido would try such a thing. So, I refuse to make such an assumption without any validation.

Amir
I can't even begin to imagine what the purpose of such a show could be. When you find out let me know. Until then I'll stick with my assumption that it's the same mystic B.S. I've seen so many times throughout the martial arts..
I don't have any idea about the purpose of this show. I am just not willing to make assumptions which seems so improbable to me (such as this being S.D.). The only no-touch throws I am willing to believe in, are those related to Uke safeguarding his own health and jumping before the technique hits him.

I would be happy if someone from Aikikai would be able to ask and get an explenation. Being myself from another system, I do not care enough ...

Amir
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Old 08-30-2007, 05:17 AM   #63
David Humm
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Re: Wha' da..."

Quote:
Roman Kremianski wrote: View Post
Sarcasm doesn't really carry as well through forums.

And I'd say I'm mildly curious at best.
English language is acceptable and a contact email address is on the aikikai website.
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Old 09-02-2007, 06:56 PM   #64
maxwelljones
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Re: Wha' da..."

No touch throws might be a good teaching tool. Personally, at my level of experience, I wouldn't have a clue, but I'm pretty sure they don't make good embu material.

"Good evening, and remember: it's iriminage, not irimijime."
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Old 09-02-2007, 10:17 PM   #65
Nikopol
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Re: Wha' da..."

Quote:
Gregg Block wrote: View Post
I can't even begin to imagine what the purpose of such a show could be. When you find out let me know. Until then I'll stick with my assumption that it's the same mystic B.S. I've seen so many times throughout the martial arts..
The suggestion has been made that this is meant to be humorous.
It is also been said that Watanabe is a good teacher and Aikidoka.

Perhaps we need to shake our heads to free them up from a calcified way of looking at this video.

In the context of a meeting of a group like this, an extended family if you will, there is the aim of instruction, but, for a body of people whose every meeting is devoted to instruction, this sort of meeting is a rather special gathering and the participants are meant to enjoy it. So the idea of a humorous 'skit' should not be surprising.

Especially one that embodies and displays skill - those back-bending ukes are demonstrating great control and fitness - and embodies the idea and spirit of ki, and contains some actual aikido contact. If the misunderstanding of ki is something of an inside joke, than this would be the place to bring some mirth into the program. Aikido study is not meant to be humorless, and the practitioners are not mechanoids.

I have always found that in such meetings of extended groups in Japan, for example religious gatherings, songs and skits will be offered. Let us contrast this pure entertainment to its alternative: alcohol and cigarettes and karaoke and loud stupid talking and shouting.

So if someone who has been there tells us it's meant to be entertaining, none of us reading this thread really have any cause to doubt that. After all, this is not the Charlatan in the other video who attacks a fighter first, pathetically, never uses ma-ai or sabaki and gets punched out. That guy was BS. But perhaps Watanabe sensei is just giving the flock some of natures best medicine. (Laughter)

My two yen's worth....
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Old 09-03-2007, 12:12 AM   #66
Chris Li
 
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Re: Wha' da..."

Quote:
Maxwell Jones wrote: View Post
No touch throws might be a good teaching tool. Personally, at my level of experience, I wouldn't have a clue, but I'm pretty sure they don't make good embu material.
Quite the contrary - it's a great show.

Best,

Chris

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Old 09-03-2007, 10:20 AM   #67
gregg block
 
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Re: Wha' da..."

[quote=Vincent Nikopol;188477]The suggestion has been made that this is meant to be humorous.
It is also been said that Watanabe is a good teacher and Aikidoka.

Perhaps we need to shake our heads to free them up from a calcified way of looking at this video.

In the context of a meeting of a group like this, an extended family if you will, there is the aim of instruction, but, for a body of people whose every meeting is devoted to instruction, this sort of meeting is a rather special gathering and the participants are meant to enjoy it. So the idea of a humorous 'skit' should not be surprising.

If it's humor I guess I don't get the joke but thats ok do what you like in your own house. Just don't put the joke on you tube and label it Aikido to be laughed at by serious martial artists.
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Old 09-03-2007, 10:34 PM   #68
Nikopol
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Re: Wha' da..."

[quote=Gregg Block;188505

If it's humor I guess I don't get the joke but thats ok do what you like in your own house. Just don't put the joke on you tube and label it Aikido to be laughed at by serious martial artists.[/QUOTE]

I was reading 'Aikido with Ki' last night. Tohei Sensei writes that by extending your ki you avoid taking bad ki from others.

To let what they say on Youtube get a rise out of us, we are taking bad ki, all the more reason to be thankful for an occasion to lighten up.

But anyways, it certainly wasn't I who posted this on youtube, so perhaps a private message to the youtube poster is in order.
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