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Old 08-27-2007, 07:57 AM   #201
Mike Sigman
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Re: A President's Thought

Quote:
David Chalk wrote: View Post
So if GWB want to establish democracy anywhere perhaps he should start in Florida and Ohio .
Perhaps you didn't read some of the letters written to the Guardian after they encouraged Brit citizens to try and interfere with the US elections? I think the general response to the Brits was "Butt out and go get some dental work done to fix those awful teeth." It's funny listening to the Brits, whose own inaction has helped lead to both major wars (not to mention minor wars like Bosnia, the coming Iran war, etc.) telling people how they should act.

BTW... in case you missed it, Bush won in both Florida and Ohio quite fairly. In Florida, though, the US Supreme Court had to twice smack down the overwhelmingly Democrat-stacked state supreme court and tell them "no, you cannot change the rules of an election once the election is over in order to favor a Democrat candidate". Although the liberal news vaguely suggested that Republicans elected Bush via the Supreme Court, they glossed over exactly why the case went to the Supreme Court to start with.... Democrats cheating, once again, in a democratic election (almost every case of election cheating in the US has been prosecuted against Democrats).

Look to those British teeth, David, and quit worrying so much about the US when you have so much at home you should be fixating on.

Mike
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Old 08-27-2007, 08:18 AM   #202
Mark Freeman
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Re: A President's Thought

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
Look to those British teeth, David, and quit worrying so much about the US when you have so much at home you should be fixating on.

Mike
What is it with the teeth! how can the level of a country's dentistry have anything to do with anything??

Are David's teeth not up to scratch? must he get them fixed before he can pass an opinion on a subject outside of his own domain?

Does this mean that when we speak we must keep our mouths closed so as not to betray our country of origin?

Just dropped into the forums after a long while away, nice to see you haven't lost your 'balance' Mike

regards,

Mark

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Old 08-27-2007, 08:24 AM   #203
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Re: A President's Thought

Quote:
Neil Mick wrote: View Post
"Blinded??"

In point of fact: Hamas and Hezbollah are not enemies of the US. You DO know that, right?
I do not.
They are enemies of humanity I would say. Have you ever seen those little videos of 8 year olds running around dressed like terrorists with AK47s and fake suicide bombs strapped to their chest?
Thats not right Neil. That's like teaching (and training!) our kids to hate blacks, muslims, chinese. Training kids to make war. That's against the Geneeva convention you often site the US as breaking from.
It sets them on a course that has a good chance of seeing them detonating themselves in a market. Not on at all. We should train children to live not to die.

I'd prefer not to get into a Hamas/US/Israel/Hez argument with you. That's your bread and butter and heading off topic. (I know you didn't bring it up first)

I'll just say that I think the US and Israel are in bed together, Hamas and Hez Act like terrorists and are willing to use those tactics to achieve their goal and I got a kick out of Hamas getting elected in a democratic like manner. I'd have loved to see the US higher ups with stunned looks on their faces saying 'Didn't see that one comming'.

Quote:
Clearly, the media plays a role...as do our leaders. Bush mouthes "al Qaeda" over and over: you start to wonder if al Qaeda are hiding in our bathrooms, right next to the Bolsheviks!
For sure. Watching one of his speaches kills me.
Evil this evil that. Alquaida alquaida alquaida. Axis of Evil.
Fear tactics 101. I think we spoke about it before didn't we? Caesar saying the trick was to keep your people in constant fear of barbarian invasion and they will do whatever you want them to. Thousands of years later it still works.

Quote:
not talking about the "blindness" of others
When you're looking down a scope you have a tendency to get tunnel vision. You're so fixated on what you're looking at that you loose your prehepheral vision. Perhaps tunnel vision would have been a better word to use.
Still, some people are just blind. Like a parent who loves their child so much they can see no wrong. Then they turn around get caught up in drugs and the parent gives them money "for school trips" kinda thing.

Quote:
Funny, but the polls seem to disagree:
Neil please, internet polls?
Just above we were talking about how the US ELECTION was rigged, I have a feeling you believe it was too. If you can rig the us election are you really going to trust a pool on the net?

Quote:
They already ARE killing each other.
Right, and the forces there are intercepting a lot of it.
Yes or no answer, do you think if 'we' left Iraq today they would settle down and we would see less fighting and death?

Quote:
Oh, but it will. On that, I am almost positive. You see, Grant: your formula would actually work if the only problem were our poor choice of leaders.
Right. And even if you managed to get a great leader the other party would go into overdrive trying to drag them down. If it was because they wanted what's best for the country I could understand it. I don't feel they do. They bring them down because THEY want to be in power. It's greed pure and simple.

Letting someone else do the driving isn't always a bad thing, if gives you a chance to watch for other threats.

In Afghanistan and Iraq it's the guys in the back seat's and the guys in the back of the vehicles that pick out the fellows in the crowd with cell phones in their ears counting vehicles on their hand as they pass by. When you're not driving you can get a better picture.
Problem with politics is that EVERYONE wants to be the driver. You're parties should work together and not work at making each other look incapable of doing the job.

Quote:
Sorry, but you go to war: you're responsible for the damage you caused. Time to pony up the reparations.
Yup, liek you said, thats not passing out blank checks and it shouldn't be given to contractors and companies who were friendly to your political party and donated to your campaign. You scratch my back I scratch yours. Another huge problem with US politics.

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
I think the general response to the Brits was "Butt out and go get some dental work done to fix those awful teeth."
What an ignorant and stupid response by them, don't you think?
Nya nya you have funny teeth.
Lets start making fun of blacks with their hair or jews with their noses or maybe asians slanted eyes or americans obesity problem.

I've always felt when you attack someones personal attributes it's because you don't feel your argument can speak for itself. Look at Michael Moore for example. His political views aside, how often does someone resort to making fun of his weight and physical appearance when disagreeing with him?
Deflection.
It's a step below making fun of someone for the colour of their skin, actually it's about the same.

Last edited by Guilty Spark : 08-27-2007 at 08:28 AM.

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Old 08-27-2007, 08:26 AM   #204
Mike Sigman
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Re: A President's Thought

Just noting.... once again.... that there are a few Brits who have many problems at home but who spend a rather large amount of their posting time complaining about America, Mark. You may have noticed that few Americans are graceless enough to waste time pointing out the downward spiral of Brits and Europeans into third-world status. It's their business and we won't stick our teeth into it.

Mike
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Old 08-27-2007, 08:44 AM   #205
Mike Sigman
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Re: A President's Thought

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Grant Wagar wrote: View Post
What an ignorant and stupid response by them, don't you think?
Nya nya you have funny teeth.
Lets start making fun of blacks with their hair or jews with their noses or maybe asians slanted eyes or americans obesity problem.

I've always felt when you attack someones personal attributes...
Oh, I dunno..... it's about the same as calling someone "ignorant and stupid", in my book. There's a sort of elitist arrogance being pointed out with the teeth remarks.... and elitist arrogance seems to deserve whatever it gets, oftimes.

Mike
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Old 08-27-2007, 08:49 AM   #206
Taliesin
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Re: A President's Thought

Mark and Grant

Thanks for the intervention, but as an ex-rugby player I have to say my remaining teeth are in excellent condition.

Mike

Are you saying that unlawfully depriving people of the right to vote in case they don't vote for you is justified?

Are you saying that there's nothing wrong with programming voting machines to ensure the'right candidate' ? And ensuring they can't be checked?

Must say your understanding of the word 'fairly' seems to very different to ours (that's the one found in the dictionary)

Still I also like the butt out and worry about the problems in my own country line - when we're talking about the US in Iraq (not actually part of the US).

I take you don't understand why GWB trespassing in the White House is everyone's problem. (Admittedly mostly the Iraqis)

BTW - talking about a "downward spiral to third world status" - how are things going in New Orleans?
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Old 08-27-2007, 08:58 AM   #207
Mark Freeman
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Re: A President's Thought

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Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
You may have noticed that few Americans are graceless enough to waste time pointing out the downward spiral of Brits and Europeans into third-world status. It's their business and we won't stick our teeth into it.
Thanks for being one of the few Mike

Interesting note, fewer tourists from the US are travelling to Europe right now, as the weakness of the $ against the & Euro makes our little third world patch a little too expensive for our yankee cousins.

You've got the better teeth, we've got the better housing markets

regards,

Mark

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Old 08-27-2007, 09:06 AM   #208
Mike Sigman
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Re: A President's Thought

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David Chalk wrote: View Post
Are you saying that unlawfully depriving people of the right to vote in case they don't vote for you is justified?
Strawman. Looking back through my posts, I find no such comment by me at all. I realize you only get slanted news in the UK, but malfeasances in Florida (and the rest of the U.S.) voting was masssively done by the Democrat organizations (see "Acorn" story, for instance). See what happens when the news only gives one side of a story? Bad behaviour is perpetuated.
Quote:
Still I also like the butt out and worry about the problems in my own country line - when we're talking about the US in Iraq (not actually part of the US).
The bad habit of butting into wars that are none of our business started with the World Wars that Britain got us into. God willing, we'll never do it again! The civil wars between city-states and petty empires in Europe has been going on for centuries and we should just let them work it out!
Quote:
I take you don't understand why GWB trespassing in the White House is everyone's problem.
Actually, it's none of your business, David. You Brits lost your own empire due to ineptitude, so quit worrying about someone else's better job at doing things.
Quote:
BTW - talking about a "downward spiral to third world status" - how are things going in New Orleans?
New Orleans and the State of Louisiana are part of the most corrupt place in the U.S. It's a different world entirely. Although the liberal media (like the BBC, you know, the media that admits they're liberal now?) has sided with the Democrats and tried to hide corruption for many decades, you can see where that corruption ultimately led... to the deaths of thousands of their fellow liberals.

But save New Orleans? Pooh. It's been a third-world city for as long as it has existed. It's been sinking into the swamp for hundreds of years. Let it go. Build somewhere else.

Regards,

Mike Sigman
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Old 08-27-2007, 09:12 AM   #209
Mike Sigman
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Re: A President's Thought

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Mark Freeman wrote: View Post
Interesting note, fewer tourists from the US are travelling to Europe right now, as the weakness of the $ against the & Euro makes our little third world patch a little too expensive for our yankee cousins.
That's true, Mark. Fewer are going to Europe. Fewer manufactured goods are being bought from Europe, too. In an effort to shore up its economies where labour costs are too high, unions, welfare, etc., are all rampantly taking money, the protectionist tariffs are becoming stronger yet. And all this while getting free protection from the US military (and spitting in their face for doing it), which saves untold sums of money. I.e., Europe is in an economic cul de sac and things look bleak. Remember in the last Davos summit meeting it was predicted that Europe was about a decade away from being meaningless because Asia will eclipse it. Why should the US buy British tea-towels when the same thing is cheaper from China?

You guys need to turn your worries a bit more inward.

Best.

Mike
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Old 08-27-2007, 09:30 AM   #210
Mark Freeman
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Re: A President's Thought

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Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
And all this while getting free protection from the US military (and spitting in their face for doing it), which saves untold sums of money.
Free protection?? The greatest capitalist economy in the history of mankind ( until china and india overtake ) is giving away for free what they could be charging for

Our little island alone will be shelling out approximately 30 bn ( thats around $60 billion,) to lease the updated trident missile system from you guys. We will never own it, you will allow us to deploy it around the world as a mutual protection policy. Hardly free.

Just how ungrateful can we be for $60 bn

regards,

Mark

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Old 08-27-2007, 09:39 AM   #211
Mike Sigman
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Re: A President's Thought

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Mark Freeman wrote: View Post
Free protection?? The greatest capitalist economy in the history of mankind ( until china and india overtake ) is giving away for free what they could be charging for

Our little island alone will be shelling out approximately 30 bn ( thats around $60 billion,) to lease the updated trident missile system from you guys. We will never own it, you will allow us to deploy it around the world as a mutual protection policy. Hardly free.

Just how ungrateful can we be for $60 bn
Well, the way you pretend the standing Army, Air Force, and so on of the U.S. aren't the main reliance of Europe proves my point. You take it and denigrate it. Europe as always only been in love with the US when the US could DO something for Europe. Other than those times, it despises the US. If you ever get a chance, go back and listen to the question from some Brit school (college) kids asking insulting questions of Robert Kennedy and Ronald Reagan during a debate. That short after WWII, the venom was already there. Then as the USSR began to make more threatening noises, the Europeans were great pals. Then the USSR went away and the US was the bad boy. Now that Russia is making noises again, the conversation is beginning to turn again.

I think the UK and the EU should tell the US to go take a hike and they'll defend themselves, thank you very much. Same with South Korea. Our only argument seems to be that some peoples have been provenly inept whenever world crises come along.

Look inward, Mark. Worry about the country that stepped smack into the middle of two World Wars.

Mike
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Old 08-27-2007, 09:41 AM   #212
Taliesin
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Re: A President's Thought

Mike

Please tell me you are merely playing the most extreme caricuture of a pig ignorant right wing Yank. You have no idea how frightening the mere suggestion that your answers are serious is

I mean look at your replies

It was the Democrats to blame for the problem in Florida - When the guys who purged the electroal role were all Republicans

World Wars that Britian got you into - let's forget about Pearl Harbor - an attack that "shall live in infamy" - but not in Mike Sigman's head.

Brits 'lost our Empire - actualy we granted most of our colonies independance voluntarily - but since you seem to know hardly any American History I'm not surprised you don't know any of ours.

GWB as President is none of our business - As long as he continues creating problems that affect us, (and our troops) then he is our problem. All we are doing is asking that those in a position to do something about it, to do so (Unless you honestly believe that GWB is doing an excellent job in your 'colony' in Iraq and that the US did so much better in Viet Nam than we did in Malaysia).

And finally you are saying that Louisiana is corrupt and has been " a third-world city for as long as it has existed". - Even if that was true (which I don't believe) - don't you think it's an indictment that you haven't been able to raise it's standards in over 200 years.
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Old 08-27-2007, 09:46 AM   #213
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Re: A President's Thought

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Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
Oh, I dunno..... it's about the same as calling someone "ignorant and stupid", in my book. There's a sort of elitist arrogance being pointed out with the teeth remarks.... and elitist arrogance seems to deserve whatever it gets, oftimes.

Mike
We'll have to take the cliche route of agreeing to disagree

I figure someone can easily learn not to be ignorant of others or act in a stupid manner. Changing the colour of ones skin or getting dental work is considerably more difficult, not really high on a priority list anyways.

I understand you're angle Mike and I've both seen and delt with it a lot. Hate it.
I just as much smile and wink at elitist arrogance than 'fire back' and let them think they've got a rise out of me.

Quote:
David Chalk wrote: View Post
Mark and Grant

Thanks for the intervention, but as an ex-rugby player I have to say my remaining teeth are in excellent condition.
But how are your ears david?
(I kid, don't take that out of context)

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Old 08-27-2007, 09:51 AM   #214
Taliesin
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Re: A President's Thought

Mark

I think it's called a 'protection racket'

Mike

'Insulting Questions of Robert Kennedy like why was he and his brother shot?

When has the US Army, and Air Force ever defended the UK ?
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Old 08-27-2007, 09:57 AM   #215
Mike Sigman
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Re: A President's Thought

Quote:
David Chalk wrote: View Post
It was the Democrats to blame for the problem in Florida - When the guys who purged the electroal role were all Republicans
"Purged the roles"? Of all the voters? You must be mad? BTW.... if you'll bother to research the story of Dade and Broward County elections, which are run in toto by the Democrats, you'll not only get a fuller picture of the nonsense you're spouting, you'll also be quite surprised at the things never reported by the liberal press.
Quote:
World Wars that Britian got you into - let's forget about Pearl Harbor - an attack that "shall live in infamy" - but not in Mike Sigman's head.
Churchill's famous comment from "The Sinews of Peace" - 1946

There never was a war in all history easier to prevent by timely action than
the one which has just desolated such great areas of the globe. It could
have been prevented in my belief without the firing of a single shot, and
Germany might be powerful, prosperous and honored to-day; but no one would
listen and one by one we were all sucked into the awful whirlpool.


He's talking about the arrogant elitists like you, David. The arrogant West-hating snobs that got first the UK and Europe, then later the US and others into a stupid war which could easily have been prevented. Note the parallels with the now 6+ years of fruitless "negotiating" the Europeans have insisted will prevent a nuclear war involving Iraq. Don't call us; we'll call you.
Quote:
Brits 'lost our Empire - actualy we granted most of our colonies independance voluntarily - but since you seem to know hardly any American History I'm not surprised you don't know any of ours.
Er.... I think I know enough that "Rule Britannia" is an irony.
Quote:
GWB as President is none of our business - As long as he continues creating problems that affect us, (and our troops) then he is our problem.
Pull out of NATO, David. Go it alone. Handle things with the aplomb and timeliness that you did with Bosnia (which "civil war" is still not handled, due to European intransigence, is it?).

Mike
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Old 08-27-2007, 10:09 AM   #216
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Re: A President's Thought

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Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
Look inward, Mark. Worry about the country that stepped smack into the middle of two World Wars.

Mike
I'm worried about the country that may well just have started the 3rd, before those crazy brits 'stepped in'.

Jennifer Paige Smith
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Old 08-27-2007, 10:17 AM   #217
Mike Sigman
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Re: A President's Thought

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Jennifer Smith wrote: View Post
I'm worried about the country that may well just have started the 3rd, before those crazy brits 'stepped in'.
Er, Santa Cruz is not really part of anything, Jennifer. It, like Boulder, is more like "twenty square miles surrounded by reality".

Actually, I've been watching a related law-suit in the news:

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.as...20070806a.html

Best.

Mike Sigman
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Old 08-27-2007, 10:47 AM   #218
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Re: A President's Thought

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If successful, the lawsuit -- filed against Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates to compel him to enforce the Solomon Amendment -- would deny UC-Santa Cruz $80 million in funds.
As well they should be denied it now.

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Old 08-27-2007, 11:21 AM   #219
David Orange
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Re: A President's Thought

Quote:
David Chalk wrote: View Post
GWB is, as far as I am aware, the only US President who is incapable of demonstrating that he was democratically (even under the block vote system) elected.

So if GWB want to establish democracy anywhere perhaps he should start in Florida and Ohio
Millions of Americans agree with you. Maybe not 51% because he apparently did get that much in the last election. The GOP machine and the mainstream media seem to have pacified people's attitudes that it was a fait accompli and enough accepted it for him to "win" in 2004, but that wouldn't have happened if he hadn't been "installed" in 2000.

David

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Old 08-27-2007, 11:25 AM   #220
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Re: A President's Thought

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Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
BTW... in case you missed it, Bush won in both Florida and Ohio quite fairly. In Florida, though, the US Supreme Court had to twice smack down the overwhelmingly Democrat-stacked state supreme court and tell them "no, you cannot change the rules of an election once the election is over in order to favor a Democrat candidate". Although the liberal news vaguely suggested that Republicans elected Bush via the Supreme Court, they glossed over exactly why the case went to the Supreme Court to start with.... Democrats cheating, once again, in a democratic election (almost every case of election cheating in the US has been prosecuted against Democrats).
Of course, Jeb BUSH being the governor of the state in question didn't hurt Geroge's "chances". Nor did having Kathryn Harris in charge of the voter rolls.

No, that one was nicely sewn up for Bush well in advance. And the Bush-stacked supreme court ensured it.

That wasn't "democratic." It was more like "Imperial."

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

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Old 08-27-2007, 11:35 AM   #221
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Re: A President's Thought

Quote:
Grant Wagar wrote: View Post
Quote:
Neil Mick wrote:
"Blinded??" In point of fact: Hamas and Hezbollah are not enemies of the US. You DO know that, right?

Grant Wagar wrote:
I do not.
They are enemies of humanity I would say.
And you want to talk about Nazis?

Remember, in their rallies, they chant "We will finish what Hitler started."

'nuff said there.

Quote:
Grant Wagar wrote: View Post
Have you ever seen those little videos of 8 year olds running around dressed like terrorists with AK47s and fake suicide bombs strapped to their chest?
And giving them that faux Mickey Mouse, Farfar (?) for "children's entertainment" then having a Jewish soldier "kill" Farfar on the last show???? That's beyond seriously sick.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

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Old 08-27-2007, 12:08 PM   #222
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Re: A President's Thought

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
The bad habit of butting into wars that are none of our business started with the World Wars that Britain got us into. God willing, we'll never do it again! The civil wars between city-states and petty empires in Europe has been going on for centuries and we should just let them work it out!
Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
Churchill's famous comment from "The Sinews of Peace" - 1946

There never was a war in all history easier to prevent by timely action than
the one which has just desolated such great areas of the globe. It could
have been prevented in my belief without the firing of a single shot, and
Germany might be powerful, prosperous and honored to-day; but no one would
listen and one by one we were all sucked into the awful whirlpool.


He's talking about the arrogant elitists like you, David. The arrogant West-hating snobs that got first the UK and Europe, then later the US and others into a stupid war which could easily have been prevented.
Mike,

Are you actually saying that WWI and WWII were unnecessary and not in the interest of the average American? That they had nothing to do with our security and that we should not have been involved? That Pearl Harbor was merely an excuse to get the people behind something that the elites wanted to do?

This is unexpected coming from you, but I suppose I should know better than to make assumptions.

Of course, it is the correct history, which any genuine research will reveal.

Churchill also said:
Quote:
When I survey and compute the power of the United States and its vast resources and feel that they are now in it with us, with the British commonwealth of nations all together, however long it lasts, till death or victory, I cannot believe that there is any other fact in the whole world which can compare with that. This is what I dreamed of, aimed at, and worked for, and now it has come to pass.
As a follow up, how is our involvement in Iraq (or other parts of the Middle East) different? How is 9/11 different from Pearl Harbor?

-Michael
"Through aiki we can feel the mind of the enemy who comes to attack and are thus able to respond immediately." - M. Mochizuki
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Old 08-27-2007, 12:12 PM   #223
Mike Sigman
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Re: A President's Thought

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David Orange wrote: View Post
Of course, Jeb BUSH being the governor of the state in question didn't hurt Geroge's "chances". Nor did having Kathryn Harris in charge of the voter rolls.

No, that one was nicely sewn up for Bush well in advance. And the Bush-stacked supreme court ensured it.

That wasn't "democratic." It was more like "Imperial."

David
Yawn. The Florida State Supreme Court broke the law of the land, twice, by trying to change the rules of a federal election *after* the election. That is historical fact and entered into the record. Democrats are crooks. These are the same Democrats that attempted to block military members from voting because it's a well-known fact that the majority of the military vote Republican. I.e., the Democrats aren't really the ones providing security to the US, statistically. They're the ones complaining.

Dons Flame-Retardent Underwear.

Over and Out.

Mike
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Old 08-27-2007, 12:18 PM   #224
Mike Sigman
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Re: A President's Thought

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Michael Varin wrote: View Post
Are you actually saying that WWI and WWII were unnecessary and not in the interest of the average American? That they had nothing to do with our security and that we should not have been involved? That Pearl Harbor was merely an excuse to get the people behind something that the elites wanted to do?
We could easily have waited until Europe was completely decimated and Hitler's forces spent... and then, if there had been compelling interest, gone in. It's difficult to say it was "good for America", in either war, actually. "Allies"? What "allies" do we really have? They use us only when they need us. Think of de Gaulle, for instance. Think of Helmut Kohl in 1950's Germany running openly on an anti-American ticket. "Need" is a difficult-to-pin-down term.
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This is unexpected coming from you, but I suppose I should know better than to make assumptions.

Of course, it is the correct history, which any genuine research will reveal.
Pooh.... I just like to throw in a few rocks at the perennial rock-throwing America-haters every now and then, just for amusement.
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How is 9/11 different from Pearl Harbor?
You can't surf the big ones in Iraq.

Mike
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Old 08-27-2007, 03:40 PM   #225
David Orange
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Re: A President's Thought

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Michael Varin wrote: View Post
How is 9/11 different from Pearl Harbor?
For one thing, when the Japanese attacked us at Pearl Harbor, we didn't go "counter-attack" the French!

Terrorists in Afghanistan attacked us on 9/11 (Saudis, for the most part). Iraq had nothing to do with it.

No, Iraq was a freebie that George took for himself.

Oh, yes, and for Cheney and Haliburton. Sure as hell not for the USA.

David

Last edited by David Orange : 08-27-2007 at 03:43 PM.

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