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Old 08-24-2007, 01:47 AM   #76
Josh Reyer
 
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Re: Onegaishimasu

Quote:
Mike Haftel wrote: View Post
I didn't read through the entire thread.
If you had, you could have saved yourself some typing.

Josh Reyer

The lyf so short, the crafte so longe to lerne,
Th'assay so harde, so sharpe the conquerynge...
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Old 08-24-2007, 06:44 AM   #77
Peter Goldsbury
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Re: Onegaishimasu

Well, I did read through the thread (again) and thought (again) about how the term is used by the Japanese I regularly encounter.

There is a lady who works at the check-out in the university Co-op here in Hiroshima and she uses onegai-shimasu several times during the payment transaction. Even after you have paid, picked up the bag with what you have bought, and made to leave the check-out, there is still a final 'onegai-shimasu', to send you on your way. I do not think the phrase has any specifiable meaning here. It is similar to suminasen, used in almost the same way by the lady who runs my local sake shop. Here there are three or four sumimasens uttered each time I make a transaction, usually interspersed with one or two doomo's (but never doomo-doomo).

The weather is very hot and humid here, with daily temperatures in the mid-thirties. However, encounters with neighbors invariably start with stating the obvious: atsui desu-neee (with the length and pitch of the neeee adjusted according to the temperature) and I have sometimes wondered what answer they are expecting, if any. Inevitably, I vigorously agree and go on my way.

So in the local dojo, there are many more of these 'phatic' occasions, where you utter phrases like onegai-shimasu, simply as a means of social lubrication: somewhat like drinking green tea.

P A Goldsbury
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Old 08-24-2007, 08:55 AM   #78
jennifer paige smith
 
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Re: Onegaishimasu

Quote:
Peter A Goldsbury wrote: View Post
Well, I did read through the thread (again) and thought (again) about how the term is used by the Japanese I regularly encounter.

There is a lady who works at the check-out in the university Co-op here in Hiroshima and she uses onegai-shimasu several times during the payment transaction. Even after you have paid, picked up the bag with what you have bought, and made to leave the check-out, there is still a final 'onegai-shimasu', to send you on your way. I do not think the phrase has any specifiable meaning here. It is similar to suminasen, used in almost the same way by the lady who runs my local sake shop. Here there are three or four sumimasens uttered each time I make a transaction, usually interspersed with one or two doomo's (but never doomo-doomo).

The weather is very hot and humid here, with daily temperatures in the mid-thirties. However, encounters with neighbors invariably start with stating the obvious: atsui desu-neee (with the length and pitch of the neeee adjusted according to the temperature) and I have sometimes wondered what answer they are expecting, if any. Inevitably, I vigorously agree and go on my way.

So in the local dojo, there are many more of these 'phatic' occasions, where you utter phrases like onegai-shimasu, simply as a means of social lubrication: somewhat like drinking green tea.
A corollary I have discovered is the Hawai'in word Aloha and perhaps even the word Mahalo. They have actual meanings but they are used to convey spirit and to lubricate ( retain fluidity ) all relations. Another term that comes to mind is Shalom. Which is used in the place of the word peace but doesn't actually mean peace.
Even closer to home is the phrase 'dude' which is used in proliferation where I've grown up; Coastal California. It means almost anything depending on how you influx.

I'll take yet another stab at the thought with an observation that these are all symbolic language expressions rather than linear language expressions.

Thoughts, please?

Last edited by jennifer paige smith : 08-24-2007 at 08:57 AM.

Jennifer Paige Smith
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Old 08-24-2007, 09:17 AM   #79
Josh Reyer
 
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Re: Onegaishimasu

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Jennifer Smith wrote: View Post
I'll take yet another stab at the thought with an observation that these are all symbolic language expressions rather than linear language expressions.

Thoughts, please?
To be honest, I'm not exactly clear on your terminology. All language expressions are inherently symbolic, and I'm not sure what you mean by "linear". Perhaps you are saying in this case that such words don't have one universal meaning in all contexts, but rather have multiple shades of meaning heavily influenced by context?

If so, I'd certainly agree. My main feeling vis a vis "onegai-shimasu" and aikido is one of stressing the everyday naturalness of the phrase, so it doesn't overly imbued with solemn and reverent meaning.

Josh Reyer

The lyf so short, the crafte so longe to lerne,
Th'assay so harde, so sharpe the conquerynge...
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Old 08-25-2007, 08:11 AM   #80
jennifer paige smith
 
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Re: Onegaishimasu

Quote:
Joshua Reyer wrote: View Post
To be honest, I'm not exactly clear on your terminology. All language expressions are inherently symbolic, and I'm not sure what you mean by "linear". Perhaps you are saying in this case that such words don't have one universal meaning in all contexts, but rather have multiple shades of meaning heavily influenced by context?

If so, I'd certainly agree. My main feeling vis a vis "onegai-shimasu" and aikido is one of stressing the everyday naturalness of the phrase, so it doesn't overly imbued with solemn and reverent meaning.
Yeah.

I'm trying to express an observation that I have had throughout my life regarding different types of language use. So I guess it is an attempt to to describe 'spirit' in language. I believe it goes beyond context; yet includes context.

I'll think about it some more and try to find another way to say this.

However, I think that you got the gist; and at least I could communicate that.
You know, I speak a different language
thanks for the note.

(oh, that's kinda it. Music can speak in the same way. It can be extremely interpretive or only what is written note for note. It depends on the approach...hmmm, probably not getting closer here.)

I'll keep working on it.
jen

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Old 08-26-2007, 07:45 AM   #81
Mark Uttech
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Re: Onegaishimasu

In my own observations: 'onegaishimasu' I translate as: "please, to share", and I use it outside of aikido class to begin all of my written correspondence, whether an email, or notes written in longhand. Yes, very symbolic, we use language to create self portraits of how we see the world and ourselves in the world.

In gassho,

Mark

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Old 09-05-2007, 01:41 AM   #82
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Re: Onegaishimasu

I love the word, "Onegashimasu." It is a humbling phrase that places the one it is said to above the one that says it.

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Old 09-05-2007, 02:26 AM   #83
The Jawz
 
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Re: Onegaishimasu

My student handbook defines 'Onegaishimasu' as "Thank you for what we are about to do".

Dunno if that's accurate though.
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Old 09-05-2007, 03:46 AM   #84
Mark Uttech
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Re: Onegaishimasu

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Erik Calderon wrote: View Post
I love the word, "Onegashimasu." It is a humbling phrase that places the one it is said to above the one that says it.

Erik Calderon
http://www.shinkikan.com
Thanks for that wonderful description Erik!

In gassho,

Mark

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Old 07-06-2011, 10:13 PM   #85
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Re: Onegaishimasu

FWIW, Taka and Reynosa Senseis explained it as

"Thank you for what you are about to show me," and
"Thank you for what you have shown me" (respectively.)

Yes, you're asking a favor, asking the other person to potentially have his/her body abused for the sake of your learning.

Perhaps as important is the simple spirit beneath it all, a spirit that you'll learn through practice in the dojo, if it's there to be gained. That is appreciation for both the senior and equal/junior members of the dojo, for that they're making the opportunity to learn and grow available to you.

Arigato Gozaimashita,

JT
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Old 07-11-2011, 10:40 AM   #86
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Re: Onegaishimasu

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John Taylor Yezeguielian wrote: View Post
FWIW, Taka and Reynosa Senseis explained it as

"Thank you for what you are about to show me," and
"Thank you for what you have shown me" (respectively.)
Is that also what it means when the waitress says it as she hands your order to the sushi chef?

"Thank you for what you are about to show me!"

"....uh, ok...'scuse me while I whip this out..."
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Old 07-11-2011, 12:06 PM   #87
Janet Rosen
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Re: Onegaishimasu

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
Is that also what it means when the waitress says it as she hands your order to the sushi chef?

"Thank you for what you are about to show me!"

"....uh, ok...'scuse me while I whip this out..."
LOL - but yes, that is also the context in which I most often hear it outside the dojo. So I figure it is basically "Excuse me" or here in California, "Yo, dude!" or "Yo, dawg!"

Janet Rosen
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Old 07-11-2011, 12:33 PM   #88
Keith Larman
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Re: Onegaishimasu

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
Is that also what it means when the waitress says it as she hands your order to the sushi chef?

"Thank you for what you are about to show me!"

"....uh, ok...'scuse me while I whip this out..."
Egads, not while holding the knife I hope.

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