Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Weapons

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-13-2007, 07:31 AM   #1
CitoMaramba
 
CitoMaramba's Avatar
Dojo: Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui Group Philippines
Location: Plymouth, UK
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 492
Philippines
Offline
Saito Sensei short stick techniques

I came across the following pictures on the http://www.saitosensei.com/ website. They show Saito Sensei wielding a short stick against a bokken (uke is BIll Witt).





Are these waza still being taught?

All the best,

Cito

Inocencio Maramba, MD, MSc
Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2007, 07:50 AM   #2
Timothy WK
Location: Chicago, IL
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 187
United_States
Offline
Re: Saito Sensei short stick techniques

Are you sure those aren't shoto he's carrying?

Actually, I find it really hard to tell just how "short" those "sticks" really are. They <i>*could*</i> be full-length bokken. The pictures have you staring down the length of the weapon, which makes it difficult to tell what exactly he's carrying.

[edit] Oh, the website calls it a "short stick"... I'm still suspicious, though. The "stick" has visible curvature, so I still suspect it's a shoto. [/edit]

Last edited by Timothy WK : 08-13-2007 at 07:55 AM.

--Timothy Kleinert
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2007, 08:00 AM   #3
CitoMaramba
 
CitoMaramba's Avatar
Dojo: Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui Group Philippines
Location: Plymouth, UK
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 492
Philippines
Offline
Re: Saito Sensei short stick techniques

Yes, it could be a shoto / wakizashi..
Even if it is (as opposed to a tanjo / hanbo), I would still be interested if these techniques are being taught by anyone. Thanks!

Inocencio Maramba, MD, MSc
Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2007, 09:33 AM   #4
Erick Mead
 
Erick Mead's Avatar
Dojo: Big Green Drum (W. Florida Aikikai)
Location: West Florida
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,614
United_States
Offline
Re: Saito Sensei short stick techniques

Quote:
Cito Maramba wrote: View Post
Yes, it could be a shoto / wakizashi..
Even if it is (as opposed to a tanjo / hanbo), I would still be interested if these techniques are being taught by anyone. Thanks!
Assuming these are intended to be related -- it looks like this is shomenuchi tachi dori kokyu nage. The weight shift forward indicates a cut taken into shikaku to achieve kuzushi. The bottom one shows the ura waza at the first part of the entry and the top one the beginning of the throw shown from the omote side (with a full tenkan).

Lots of folks teach these. Of course, from the static position shown on the ura side, many others are also possible, depending on the dynamic. From the ura side, kotegaeshi or several other variations of kokyunage are plainly possible.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2007, 09:46 AM   #5
Larry Cuvin
 
Larry Cuvin's Avatar
Dojo: Oregon Ki Society
Location: Tigard, Oregon
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 269
United_States
Offline
Re: Saito Sensei short stick techniques

Cito,
In my short training experience in aikido, the only sensei I know that has the short sticks in his program is Ernesto Talag sensei. I saw parts of his training VCD where he did short stick kata when I trained with him in Mega Mall. I'm sure there are more out there.

Plus Ki
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2007, 10:17 AM   #6
CitoMaramba
 
CitoMaramba's Avatar
Dojo: Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui Group Philippines
Location: Plymouth, UK
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 492
Philippines
Offline
Re: Saito Sensei short stick techniques

Thanks Larry.
I wonder if Talag Sensei taught those short stick techniques prior to March 2000?
Larry, if you are ever in the Philippines again, you might want to pay a visit to my Sensei in Urdaneta, Pangasinan.

Cheers,

Cito

Inocencio Maramba, MD, MSc
Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2007, 10:25 AM   #7
CitoMaramba
 
CitoMaramba's Avatar
Dojo: Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui Group Philippines
Location: Plymouth, UK
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 492
Philippines
Offline
Re: Saito Sensei short stick techniques

Quote:
Erick Mead wrote: View Post
... Lots of folks teach these. Of course, from the static position shown on the ura side, many others are also possible, depending on the dynamic. From the ura side, kotegaeshi or several other variations of kokyunage are plainly possible.
Hi Erick,

Do they teach them while wielding a short stick / shoto / tanjo in one hand?

Thanks,

Cito

Inocencio Maramba, MD, MSc
Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2007, 10:51 AM   #8
raul rodrigo
Location: Quezon City
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 777
Philippines
Offline
Re: Saito Sensei short stick techniques

Quote:
Cito Maramba wrote: View Post
Thanks Larry.
I wonder if Talag Sensei taught those short stick techniques prior to March 2000?
Larry, if you are ever in the Philippines again, you might want to pay a visit to my Sensei in Urdaneta, Pangasinan.

Cheers,

Cito
Cito:

I was an observer in the Megamall gym of Talag sensei on the night when he first taught the short stick techniques. It was around 2000 or 2001. I know it was the first time because he said so in his talk that this was going to be a new element in the dojo's practice.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2007, 11:29 AM   #9
Erick Mead
 
Erick Mead's Avatar
Dojo: Big Green Drum (W. Florida Aikikai)
Location: West Florida
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,614
United_States
Offline
Re: Saito Sensei short stick techniques

Quote:
Cito Maramba wrote: View Post
Do they teach them while wielding a short stick / shoto / tanjo in one hand?
Not specifically, (but then, it looks like a foreshortened view of a bokken to me, the shadow from the flash shows that his grip is extended back significantly and it easily could be a bokken, the caption notwithsatnding). The waza would not be appreciably different whether armed with the longer or shorter blade, or even hanbo, tessen or jutte, because the near arm distance defines the ma-ai.

The weapon use in the throw can be a cut or a thrust. The kokyunage that I find interesting is where the throw is accomplished backed up with the blade or other weapon tip in uchi-tachi's short ribs. If it were done as I describe using the bokken the blade mune would rest across the belly as in shihoto no kata in Eisshin ryu iai-jutsu. Engaging the off-hand in this way prevents the turn in to recover balance and re-engage with the attacking sword (although if that happened it might then become kotegaeshi or iriminage.) It also makes possible a rokkyo takedown and pin, at least on the ura side.

Conversely, it can be done with the raised weapon striking the nape of the neck after you start the throw, in a movement related to kaitennage.

Last edited by Erick Mead : 08-13-2007 at 11:41 AM.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2007, 05:16 AM   #10
CitoMaramba
 
CitoMaramba's Avatar
Dojo: Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui Group Philippines
Location: Plymouth, UK
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 492
Philippines
Offline
Re: Saito Sensei short stick techniques

Quote:
Raul Rodrigo wrote: View Post
Cito:

I was an observer in the Megamall gym of Talag sensei on the night when he first taught the short stick techniques. It was around 2000 or 2001. I know it was the first time because he said so in his talk that this was going to be a new element in the dojo's practice.
Thanks, Raul!
That confirms a conjecture of mine.
Does anyone have any experience with GM Cacoy Canete's "Eskrido"?

All the best,

Cito

Inocencio Maramba, MD, MSc
Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2007, 09:47 AM   #11
wildaikido
Dojo: Hans de Jong Self Defence School
Location: Perth
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 239
Australia
Offline
Re: Saito Sensei short stick techniques

Do people not train in tanbo waza?

Graham Wild
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Aikido in Amsterdam, Terry Lax style... tiyler_durden General 11 11-03-2008 09:31 AM
eBay: AIKIDO Sword STICK Body Arts 5 Vols. SAITO Don_Modesto Marketplace 0 10-29-2003 12:12 PM
Seminar/Event: Morihiro Saito Sensei in Rohnert Park, CA AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 1 04-23-2001 12:05 PM
Seminar Review: Saotome Sensei in MT akiy Seminars 0 10-03-2000 01:30 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:30 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2017 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2017 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate