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Old 09-10-2004, 08:21 AM   #51
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
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Re: follow what i've learn or just fight?

Quote:
Suren Baghdasaryan wrote:
Unfortunately that's not always the case and as I understand a similar question asked in a demanding and rude manner pushed away some high ranked people from this forum.
When one sets oneself up as a public teacher, a representative example of the art, and makes statements that are contrary to established facts (or at least a shading of those facts), one can expect to have their qualifications questioned. In that case, those qualifications provide a context for the public information provided.

I have not noticed Jun doing any of the above...so in this context, asking about his rank would be considered rude, in my opinion.

In the example I believe you are thinking about, the situation was quite different. The inability to see that is telling. That said, I was not totally comfortable viewing the exchange, but was more surprised by the reaction. Especially since the subject had made statements to the effect of how zen teachers could be quite ascerbic in their methods of instruction. I would think that would develop a thicker skin...

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 09-10-2004, 12:13 PM   #52
daniel loughlin
Dojo: Oldham
Location: Manchester
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 89
United Kingdom
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Unhappy Re: follow what i've learn or just fight?

i meant no offense it was only a question so sorry if iv'e offended anyone forgive me for my lack of knowledge
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Old 09-10-2004, 12:22 PM   #53
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
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Re: follow what i've learn or just fight?

Hey no biggie...just file it under stupid things people over 30 told you once...some years from now it may come in handy.

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 09-10-2004, 12:32 PM   #54
daniel loughlin
Dojo: Oldham
Location: Manchester
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Posts: 89
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Re: follow what i've learn or just fight?

sorry im not very experienced as u can tell i didnt know i was just curious
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Old 09-10-2004, 05:35 PM   #55
Nick Simpson
Dojo: White Rose Aikido - Durham University
Location: Gateshead
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 916
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Re: follow what i've learn or just fight?

Life is about learning, if not then why bother?

They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
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Old 09-13-2004, 03:21 AM   #56
bruce bryan
Dojo: Shudokan Honbu Dojo
Location: nottingham
Join Date: Aug 2004
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England
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Re: follow what i've learn or just fight?

In aikido, like many martial arts, we learn the basics in idealised set patterns, 'sh'te grabs uke's left wrist; must have right leg forward' or 'Sh'te only attacks shomen uchi with the left arm so Uke can turn to the right'; 'Uke will apply this or that control' etc, etc. These idealised patterns are far removed from real encounter situations. It is vitally important to also study and learn the real Oyo, or application of learned techniques, as the real application more often than not, is far removed from the actual basic technique learned in the dojo.
Whilst Aikido teaches harmony, respect and to always look for a non violent conclusion to an encounter, life is ugly and getting uglier, and there should be no more shame in defending oneself as there is in running from an encounter. One must use the 'right tool for the job', but the tools need to be in the box to begin with. To be confident in your Aikido techniques takes a lot of hard repetative dojo training, but that training must include 'Bar room' application if ever the student is to become confident in their skills should the proverbial hit the fan.
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Old 09-13-2004, 04:39 AM   #57
Tamarack
Dojo: Whitefriar Aikido Club
Location: Dublin
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Ireland
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Re: follow what i've learn or just fight?

Hello all,

There is always the argument that the more you learn martial arts, the more you may want to go out and use it...

( http://www.wattstapes.com/dobson.htm )

I don't think we can ever know what's coming. Whether we're going to find ourselves in a fight that can't be avoided, whether we're going to always be able to talk our way out, what we have to prepare for.

It's most often my own aggression I need saving from. My choice (though sometimes I loose the plot and forget I am making a choice!) to react in indignancy, defensiveness, or righteousness.

As per bullying, the people I see receiving the least grief are the ones who don't rise to the challenge.

That said : there are no one-size-fits-all answers to that mislead, vague word "fight"!
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Old 09-13-2004, 09:45 AM   #58
billybob
 
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Dojo: Academy of Warrior Spirit
Location: tampa
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Re: follow what i've learn or just fight?

what do i do when the 'fight' is backstabbing b.s. here at work? this job is like a dysfunctional family. playing favorites and hurting each other - 'intriguing' is the way people seem to like to live.

i know the answer to my question though - apply aikido to my inner life. ouch.

billybob
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Old 08-04-2007, 10:24 PM   #59
Drew Mailman
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 23
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Re: follow what i've learn or just fight?

In Mitsugi Saotome's book Aikido and the Harmony of Nature, he recounts a conversation that he had with O'sensei about Musashi Miyamoto, where O'sensei said :

"I think the reason that Musashi repelled and survived the threat of death so many times was due to the fact that he not only knew how to win, but also knew when not to fight. By not fighting, he freely admitted defeat. He often claimed that many of his victories were largely determined by luck. He knew his limitations. He had been on both sides of the fence."

Know your limitations. If you can't fight, or shouldn't, then run. If you can't run, defend yourself. Figure out what you would do in certain situations so you always have a mental plan to run on.
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Old 08-05-2007, 12:41 AM   #60
Roman Kremianski
Dojo: Toronto Aikikai
Location: Toronto, Canada
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Re: follow what i've learn or just fight?

Did you really need to bump this?

Jesus.
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Old 08-05-2007, 05:33 AM   #61
Drew Mailman
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 23
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Re: follow what i've learn or just fight?

God no.

Eight hours later and I realize the thread is from three years ago... Doh.

Guess that's what I get for using the "search" function.
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Old 08-09-2007, 07:12 PM   #62
gregg block
 
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Re: follow what i've learn or just fight?

If you are well trained in the martial arts instinct should take over. It could make you run or fight. Thinking about what you are going to do probrably won't even take place. I had two somewhat serious confrontations that come to mind. I can't tell you exactly what I did or didn't do but on both occasions I was standing and they were not. Your post seems to imply you have time to decide what you are going to do the reality is most of the time you don't . If you do have time to decide the fight could and should be avoided entirely.
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Old 08-09-2007, 08:39 PM   #63
jennifer paige smith
 
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Dojo: Confluence Aiki-Dojo / Santa Cruz Sword Club
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Re: follow what i've learn or just fight?

Quote:
Gregg Block wrote: View Post
If you are well trained in the martial arts instinct should take over. It could make you run or fight. Thinking about what you are going to do probrably won't even take place. I had two somewhat serious confrontations that come to mind. I can't tell you exactly what I did or didn't do but on both occasions I was standing and they were not. Your post seems to imply you have time to decide what you are going to do the reality is most of the time you don't . If you do have time to decide the fight could and should be avoided entirely.
Thats how I see it, too.

Jennifer Paige Smith
Confluence Aikido Systems
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Old 08-12-2007, 02:53 AM   #64
Amir Krause
Dojo: Shirokan Dojo / Tel Aviv Israel
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 672
Israel
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Re: follow what i've learn or just fight?

If you are already in afight, there is no point in tinking of the mistakes that led you into it. You are in afight, so FIGHT !!!

If you learned enought Aikido, then you will use aikido movements in your fight regardless of your intentions. as Dave explained:

Quote:
Dave Organ wrote: View Post
Only when the lessons aikido teaches have been learned so well that they're ingrained into the subconcious (i.e.you don't need to think about them; they just happen) and the same applies to basic defensive practices will you be able to 'use aikido' for self-defense.
On the other hand, such situaitons:
Quote:
Drew Gardner wrote: View Post
Also, my brother gave me a reverse bear-hug once, just playing around. So I decided to play around. I grabbed his hand and ducked under his arm, applying sankyo. Instead of walking backwards like the pain was telling him to do, he kept fighting it and eventually came all the way around forwards. He simply wasn't going to submit. For the next week his wrist was sore. In the dojo, uke follows the path upon which he is guided. In a real fight, there is always the chance that the attacker will take the pain and injury in order to keep nage from executing the technique.
Could happen, In a fight, you may find out you have to cause real injuries - break his arm using the techniques swiftly, rather then a slow execution expecting him to follow you.
In a fight, the other person does not expect your actions, and he may therefore loose balance in unexpcted ways. I still remember such a situaiton in the dojo, in which the beginner, me, tried to Shiho-Nage another beginner, and kept looking for him at the end of the technique, only to find him spread across the wall on my back, he was thrown over already in my Kuzushi. (If you ask me today - I failed - I lost zanshin, harmony and connection).

Amir
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Old 08-12-2007, 09:23 AM   #65
Tony Wagstaffe
Location: Winchester
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,211
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Re: follow what i've learn or just fight?

Quote:
Daniel Loughlin wrote: View Post
iv you got into a fight what would you do fight or use aikido? i know the obvious answer 2 this is going to be use aikido because whats the point of learning it iv u dont use it. but im scared what iv it dosent work? what then? haas any1 every used it and succeded? or failled?
!st Avoid it if you can
2nd Survive it if you can't

Tony
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