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Old 07-24-2007, 09:06 PM   #26
Tim Fong
 
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Re: Reeling Silk Verbatim

Jennifer,

If you really want to understand Choy Li Fut, the martial arts of Southern China, and the ki/qi stuff that folks are talking about, I suggest you stay away from Carlos Castaneda.

I was going to write a long post and cite to some scholarly reading material. But that doesn't make my point that well.

Instead, I suggest you rent A Better Tomorrow and watch that instead. Here's the preview:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SR7q9_8qmak

Then ask yourself how seriously any of the guys in that movie would have taken Castaneda. Whoever taught him, wasn't teaching him crap, since I saw an interview with him where he said that all the students sucked except the teacher. Not. A. Good. Sign.

And if A Better Tomorrow is too dated for you, try the recent Donnie Yen flick, "KillZone"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uJg-6GvFF8

When Choy Li Fut, Hung Kuen and Wing Chun were becoming famous as effective systems, those are the kind of guys that were making it work. Not people like Castaneda.




****before anyone gives me a hard time, yes I know about Hong Xiuquan. But that was an exception. And he wasn't gaining his fame fighting hand to hand either. Also he flipped out. Not a good role model, kids.

Last edited by Tim Fong : 07-24-2007 at 09:14 PM.
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Old 07-25-2007, 08:54 AM   #27
jennifer paige smith
 
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Re: Reeling Silk Verbatim

"Your Wu Tang is nothing against my Shaolin."

Jennifer Paige Smith
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Old 07-25-2007, 09:19 AM   #28
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Reeling Silk Verbatim

I know I've mentioned my reservations about Castaneda before, but I recently found this over at e-budo:

Quote:
Sorry folks, but little Carlito is "beyond bad budo" so to speak.

While I very much enjoyed reading Castaneda as a teenager, Journey to Ixland being my favorite, I grew out of it AND Carlos became a VERY BAD MAN.

Essential reading to balance his books are the above mentioned A Magical Journey by Margaret Runyan Castaneda and especially Sorcerer's Apprentice: my life with Carlos Castaneda by Amy Wallace 2003 Frog Ltd.

Carlos ran a wicked little cult towards the end. Died a natural death. And left several followers missing, dead and presumed dead.
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Doug Walker
Completely cut off both heads,
Let a single sword stand against the cold sky!
Entire thread viewable here: http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthre...1&page=2&pp=15

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
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Old 07-25-2007, 09:37 AM   #29
jennifer paige smith
 
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Re: Reeling Silk Verbatim

Maybe you guys could start another thread about Carlos Castaneda in the open-discussions forum. In that case, I would be willing to contribute.


Thanks, Jen

Last edited by jennifer paige smith : 07-25-2007 at 09:43 AM.

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Old 07-25-2007, 10:07 AM   #30
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Re: Reeling Silk Verbatim

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Well I wasn't really being serious. Group hynosis with people feeling wind go by them from 50' away is well in keeping with these shamanistic, energy exchange, gentle people gatherings. I tend to leave them alone, walk away and not talk to them about it. Everyone can "believe" what they want to believe.
Why do they juu...ust have to start with their martially "effective" comparisons. If I had a nickel for everytime some incompetent said "So, did ya feel that" after me feeling not a thing from some thing or other they tried to do to me....sigh.
And mores the point, where in hell did silk reeling ever appear in that little bio? I read it twice to see if I missed something....
I'm well on trac with mental imagery in physical training, But hard, sweaty work, should produce concrete results- I suspect it's always been that way. The physical results of work needs no cooperation to believe it..
It still is that way. It has to be for me to even consider it worthy in the first place. There is a common misperception that if one (I) has a metaphysical sounding thing to say that they don't get their hands dirty. It is only from getting my hands dirty that I ever even began to consider 'metaphysics'. Not the other way around. Just like I didn't come to aikido to learn to fight. I came to tame the passions that led me to kick ass in the first place.

But it isn't a mis-conception among those who work hard daily, like my friends here, who are not intellectuals, not students, not computer kids. They are working class people who have a lot to say, in a simple way, about how things work, and it comes from work itself. The people you are talking about are tantamount to 'the white man' in an Indian motif. Culture stealers for the worse.

I know there are a lot of dip-shits out there prancing around in their gauzy linens, chanting to the universe in a virtual kumbya, and wishing for world harmony in the front seat of their Audi 's, but that isn't us. And it isn't me, for sure. We are working people who roll up our sleeves and are impelled to preserve our lives in the face of passive-aggressive colonialization by the very people who you are mistaking us for. What I could say with utter conviction, is I am/we are natives fighting for our way of life. We use martial arts as our tool and we put ourselves in it's service out of gratitude.

There is a forgotten lot of people in the world. They are the natives whose culture has, and is, being stolen by assholes like the people you described above.

I'm one of the natives. And so is Jim. And given what you've said in this and other posts, I'm pretty sure you guys would like each other.

Thanks for the ear to bend.

Last edited by jennifer paige smith : 07-25-2007 at 10:13 AM.

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Old 07-25-2007, 11:23 AM   #31
DH
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Re: Reeling Silk Verbatim

Quote:
Jennifer Smith wrote: View Post
There is a common misperception that if one (I) has a metaphysical sounding thing to say that they don't get their hands dirty. It is only from getting my hands dirty that I ever even began to consider 'metaphysics'. Not the other way around.
Jen (hope that's Ok)
I've no trouble with folks of faith, whether or not I agree with what they believe -isn't the point. But if we are supposed to be talking physical aspects of martial skill or power generation through hard work, then read metaphysical aspects that are supposed to produce the same or better results.....then I get really fussy, really fast, about who I am talking too and what they are stating. Men who can produce unusual power and present Aiki in a real way usually are talkng about very similar methods to get there. I've even had the pleasure of some who didn't use the same language I do- but the work was instantly recognizable in touch and feel.

As I said earlier , after reading the article I saw nothing in the discussion to be of any real worth to this supposed "work discussion." I cannot count "wind blowing from 50' away" as anything of value. Further, I specifically denounce it as a false teaching for anything relating to martial power. I see it as a belief thing.

Quote:
Jennifer Smith wrote: View Post
But it isn't a mis-conception among those who work hard daily, like my friends here, who are not intellectuals, not students, not computer kids. They are working class people who have a lot to say, in a simple way, about how things work, and it comes from work itself. The people you are talking about are tantamount to 'the white man' in an Indian motif. Culture stealers for the worse.

I know there are a lot of dip-shits out there prancing around in their gauzy linens, chanting to the universe in a virtual kumbya, and wishing for world harmony in the front seat of their Audi 's, but that isn't us. And it isn't me, for sure. We are working people who roll up our sleeves and are impelled to preserve our lives in the face of passive-aggressive colonialization by the very people who you are mistaking us for. What I could say with utter conviction, is I am/we are natives fighting for our way of life. We use martial arts as our tool and we put ourselves in it's service out of gratitude.

There is a forgotten lot of people in the world. They are the natives whose culture has, and is, being stolen by assholes like the people you described above.
I'm one of the natives. And so is Jim. And given what you've said in this and other posts, I'm pretty sure you guys would like each other.

Thanks for the ear to bend.
Uhm...OK. I like the sound of all of that-actually It sounds great and lets me know more of your views, and goals. I am hearing you that you "work for it" and are sweating and training hard. So are thousands of others. But it doesn't help this discussion any. In the article there was no silk reeling discussed -as in the title of your thread-, nor was there really anything of the more basic work needed being discussed either. I don't really know why you posted it at all other than to talk about your friend and his training..

If a Carlos thread gets started, maybe you'd want to start a new thread under metaphysical power generation through no-touch projection or some such thing. Otherwise the whole thread was just either off-topic, or mislabeled from the start.
I don't mean that as a negative. Other than a "Hi, this is my friend Jim and his budo studies"-I just didn't understand the point of it at all.

Last edited by DH : 07-25-2007 at 11:38 AM.
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Old 07-25-2007, 11:49 AM   #32
Haowen Chan
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Re: Reeling Silk Verbatim

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
In the article there was no silk reeling discussed -as in the title of your thread-, ...
Dan: "silk reeling" is the name of the website / academy that published the piece and "verbatim" is the name of the interview column.

The interview actually has nothing to do with silk reeling nor does it claim to do so.
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Old 07-25-2007, 12:06 PM   #33
DH
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Re: Reeling Silk Verbatim

Quote:
Howard Chan wrote: View Post
Dan: "silk reeling" is the name of the website / academy that published the piece and "verbatim" is the name of the interview column.

The interview actually has nothing to do with silk reeling nor does it claim to do so.
Thanks Howard. Now the thread/topic/author.. disconnect makes some sort of ...disconnected sense at least.
I think I'm gonna dsconnect and astral project over some desert dunes...well one more gimlet and I'll juuuust about be there...

Last edited by DH : 07-25-2007 at 12:09 PM.
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Old 07-26-2007, 08:36 AM   #34
jennifer paige smith
 
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Re: Reeling Silk Verbatim

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Jen (hope that's Ok)
I've no trouble with folks of faith, whether or not I agree with what they believe -isn't the point. But if we are supposed to be talking physical aspects of martial skill or power generation through hard work, then read metaphysical aspects that are supposed to produce the same or better results.....then I get really fussy, really fast, about who I am talking too and what they are stating. Men who can produce unusual power and present Aiki in a real way usually are talkng about very similar methods to get there. I've even had the pleasure of some who didn't use the same language I do- but the work was instantly recognizable in touch and feel.

As I said earlier , after reading the article I saw nothing in the discussion to be of any real worth to this supposed "work discussion." I cannot count "wind blowing from 50' away" as anything of value. Further, I specifically denounce it as a false teaching for anything relating to martial power. I see it as a belief thing.

If a Carlos thread gets started, maybe you'd want to start a new thread under metaphysical power generation through no-touch projection or some such thing. Otherwise the whole thread was just either off-topic, or mislabeled from the start.
I don't mean that as a negative. Other than a "Hi, this is my friend Jim and his budo studies"-I just didn't understand the point of it at all.
Hi Dan,
I did post it to introduce and talk about my 'old' friend and I felt really good about introducing him to my 'new' friends here on aikiweb. So far the reception and manners have been very rude and I am reluctant to recommend or invite anyone new to view or participate in our 'community' after the way our last 'viewing' friends were handled (yes, they were watching this thread). We're not very good hosts and that is a poor reflection on our training.
We're too selfish to be kind, and as a stranger said to me in a bar the other day, "Aikido people have a really big chip on their shoulder." I think he's right and I'm ashamed.

The thread was borrowed by others who wished to talk about Carlos Castaneda; perhaps your suggestion for content could be directed at them.

Last edited by jennifer paige smith : 07-26-2007 at 08:38 AM.

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Old 07-26-2007, 08:58 AM   #35
Mike Sigman
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Re: Reeling Silk Verbatim

Quote:
Jennifer Smith wrote: View Post
I did post it to introduce and talk about my 'old' friend and I felt really good about introducing him to my 'new' friends here on aikiweb. So far the reception and manners have been very rude and I am reluctant to recommend or invite anyone new to view or participate in our 'community' after the way our last 'viewing' friends were handled
Maybe if instead of diverting the topic to how rude someone is who doesn't buy your unsupported perspective/assertions, you should find the common thread of reference, establish your expertise through your posts, and then move on from there. There might be people who would argue that someone making New Age assertions on every post they enter is actually "rude", but why should we all discuss our individual categorizations of who is rude and who is acceptable?

I think a "My Pal Jim" post is probably fine on one of the "open" or "off topic" forums, but it's probably misplaced on a martial traditions forum. Perhaps if you just moved it, without generally painting anyone who disagrees with you as being "rude"? Then maybe, since you claim to already know and do this ki stuff, you could lay out some of what you functionally know (unless of course, you are sworn to secrecy in some 'koryu' even though the people in the koryu you mention happen to deny your membership, etc.)? If you look at many, many instances on the AW forum, you'll see that the first event that happens when a would-be expert gets questioned too closely about facts relating to ki/kokyu skills is that they begin to call other people "rude", etc. In other words, it's an overused trope. We all have perceptions of other people; the trick is to stick to facts and win debate through our cards and not our feelings.

Best.

Mike Sigman
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Old 07-26-2007, 09:18 PM   #36
jennifer paige smith
 
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Re: Reeling Silk Verbatim

www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5Bbt9extsg

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Old 07-27-2007, 06:14 AM   #37
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Re: Reeling Silk Verbatim

Quote:
Jennifer Smith wrote: View Post
LOL, well, that's like the pot calling the kettle black.

Quote:
Jennifer Smith wrote: View Post
We're too selfish to be kind
Quote:
Jennifer Smith wrote: View Post
the reception and manners have been very rude
Quote:
Jennifer Smith wrote: View Post
We're not very good hosts
Quote:
Jennifer Smith wrote: View Post
Aikido people have a really big chip on their shoulder
Quote:
Jennifer Smith wrote: View Post
I know there are a lot of dip-shits out there
Quote:
Jennifer Smith wrote: View Post
being stolen by assholes
If you don't have something nice to say ... hmmm ...

My apologies, Jennifer Smith, but I just had to post that. And it isn't as if I don't fall into the pot-kettle category either. I do. At times, I think we all do.

But, some people here posted some funny comments that were not directly related to your initial post. It was off topic and in a good natured fun kind of way. Least that's how I took it. Some posts were about how your initial post could be connected to reeling silk. We are, after all, in the "Non-Aikido" forums. As Mike said, if you had posted in the open section, I don't think there would have been any confusion.

Sometimes, we're a serious lot and the margin for "BS" is small. Even Ueshiba was known for his temper and outbursts.

This "reeling silk" thing is a serious and hard worked skill, so I'm told. Me, I couldn't reel silk even if someone gave me a fishing pole. Still, it doesn't detract from the fact that other people have had this skill and have shown it successfully. There are a few tales and video of Wang doing some neat things. Robert Smith (I think) wrote some in his Martial Musings book. Youtube has small clips of Wang. He's just one example.

And then when something is posted about farting golden clouds or feeling ki from fifty feet away, the "BS" meter goes off. It flies against all known accounts of those who really do have this "reeling silk" ability.

And from personal experience, feeling ki from fifty feet away is a joke compared to what you can really do with "reeling silk". No personal attack intended with anyone who does feel ki from fifty feet away. As with all those "aiki bunnies", if they're gaining something from their training, more power to them. But if they post on the web, it's a public forum where everyone gets a say. They might extol the wonders of feeling ki from fifty feet away, but just as they can extol the wonders, so can I say it's a joke. If they have problems with that, maybe they should look inside themselves for why.

All IMO,
Mark
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Old 07-28-2007, 10:31 AM   #38
jennifer paige smith
 
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Re: Reeling Silk Verbatim

Quote:
Mark Murray wrote: View Post
LOL, well, that's like the pot calling the kettle black.

Yah,sure. That was covered on the first page. I played the reindeer game, too. and I am aware of a certain degree of hypocricy in my responseMy apologies, Jennifer Smith, but I just had to post that. And it isn't as if I don't fall into the pot-kettle category either. I do. At times, I think we all do.

But, some people here posted some funny comments that were not directly related to your initial post. It was off topic and in a good natured fun kind of way. Least that's how I took it. Some posts were about how your initial post could be connected to reeling silk. We are, after all, in the "Non-Aikido" forums. As Mike said, if you had posted in the open section, I don't think there would have been any confusion.

Sometimes, we're a serious lot and the margin for "BS" is small. Even Ueshiba was known for his temper and outbursts.

This "reeling silk" thing is a serious and hard worked skill, so I'm told. Me, I couldn't reel silk even if someone gave me a fishing pole. Still, it doesn't detract from the fact that other people have had this skill and have shown it successfully. There are a few tales and video of Wang doing some neat things. Robert Smith (I think) wrote some in his Martial Musings book. Youtube has small clips of Wang. He's just one example.

And then when something is posted about farting golden clouds or feeling ki from fifty feet away, the "BS" meter goes off. It flies against all known accounts of those who really do have this "reeling silk" ability.

And from personal experience, feeling ki from fifty feet away is a joke compared to what you can really do with "reeling silk". No personal attack intended with anyone who does feel ki from fifty feet away. As with all those "aiki bunnies", if they're gaining something from their training, more power to them. But if they post on the web, it's a public forum where everyone gets a say. They might extol the wonders of feeling ki from fifty feet away, but just as they can extol the wonders, so can I say it's a joke. If they have problems with that, maybe they should look inside themselves for why.

All IMO,
Mark
Oh, I was kidding the whole time. What do ya know.

Jennifer Paige Smith
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Old 07-28-2007, 10:58 AM   #39
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Re: Reeling Silk Verbatim

Mark Murray,
What?!!!! OK>>>>>>Hey, I got cut-off. Steam.....Here is what I meant to add to the above: Really. It isn't that serious!! But this is what our conversation sounds like to me....LOL.

http://www.comedycentral.com/motherl...&is_large=true (sorry bout the commercial).

See ya around,
jen

Last edited by jennifer paige smith : 07-28-2007 at 11:00 AM.

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Old 07-28-2007, 04:18 PM   #40
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Re: Reeling Silk Verbatim

Couple of vids:

Choy Li Fut heigong (qigong) set:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ4Mdzs2jmk
Note that this is NOT taiji.

Bunch of Hung Gar and other Southern KF styles:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2l8c1-TlnM

Check out around 3:10. See how the guy sets his weight on his legs? The frame rate is kind of screwed up though.
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