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Old 07-12-2007, 05:11 PM   #1076
Aristeia
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Erik Calderon wrote: View Post
I've always believed that it's the man that makes the art, not the art that makes the man.

Erik Calderon
http://www.shinkikan.com
true in some respects. But when different arts continually deliver different results with a variety of people - that likely means something imo

"When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail"
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Old 07-12-2007, 05:14 PM   #1077
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Michael Gallagher wrote: View Post
There was a column in BLACK BELT a while ago about how such techniques are verified in MMA fights .... but that edges. Say, for instance, when a fight is stopped because someone takes a hit in the eye. I saw a fight reply in the Spike show in which a very big guy took a hit in the eye. That hurt him enough that he couldn't defend himself and his side though in the towel. If you follow boxing and MMA I'm sure you can think of other examples of fights stopped because one fighter took a hit in or near an eye, including situations where you get a bloody cut.

Likewise, he sighted the example of a fight stopped because someone took a knee shot in the groin; he was carried out of the ring.

Unfortunately, it's been months since I read the article, which I believe was on of Keith Vargo's columns. If you really want a precise citation, I can hunt for it. The point was to look at when fights are stopped for reasons other than a knockout or a submission. When it's because of hits in or near the eye, yes, it looks like you can reach that target if someone is trying to knock your block off, and you shouldn't put it down.
here's the counter argument. there have been at various stages a range of events where all that stuff is legal - groin shots, headbutts etc etc and it did not change a great deal the *style* of fighters who were susccesful. As to eye gouges - yuki nakai for example was blinded in one eye by Gerard Gordeau but still went on to win the fight....

"When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail"
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Old 07-12-2007, 05:28 PM   #1078
CNYMike
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Roman Kremianski wrote: View Post
Fact is: I have never seen an Aikido techniques performed against a jab. Or a solid cross. This leads me to believe Aikido is best used on untrained people who lunge at you with their attacks. Hence why we always step in with shomen/yokomen/tsuki...
The challenge with a jab is that it doesn't hang out there; it retracts almost immediately. This is an issue for many systems, not just Aikido. Personally, I haven't had anything Aikido-esque pop out during sparring, but then how does Aiki manifest in that situation? I don't know, but it challenges my imagination and it's a long term project of mine.
Quote:
So did the many Karateka who challenged the Gracies. It's a shame their hard kicks and punches weren't possible on the ground.
True. But would you want one of them to hit you while you are standing up?

Let's remeber something aboutthe Gracies: Royce was not some punk off the streets of Rio who coould take on all comers after a handful of BJJ lessons. He is someone who has devoted his life to training in his family's art; he is very good at it. Taking down karate black belts doesn't mean those guys suck; it means he is very good. But I would not want to hop in the ring with any of the guys he beat because I know I would get killed!

Like I keep saying about high kicks: I agree with all the problems with them. Yes, there are a million and a half ways to counter them. But do you still want one to hit you? I am not keen on havin someone's foot hit my noggin at 75 miles an hour .... and my Jun Fan teacher has clipped me with enough crescent kicks for me to know they can be delivered.

So, raise your hands if you want to hop in the ring with anybody Royce beat ..... and post an address we can send the flowers to.
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Old 07-12-2007, 05:30 PM   #1079
CNYMike
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Michael Fooks wrote: View Post
here's the counter argument. there have been at various stages a range of events where all that stuff is legal - groin shots, headbutts etc etc and it did not change a great deal the *style* of fighters who were susccesful. As to eye gouges - yuki nakai for example was blinded in one eye by Gerard Gordeau but still went on to win the fight....
So sometimes they work and sometimes they don't, but that doesn't mean they don't work at all.
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Old 07-12-2007, 10:16 PM   #1080
Roman Kremianski
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

[quote[Nice post, Roman. Especially because, curious, I googled "Bas Rutten Quotes" and got this[/quote]

Yeah, Bas is known to be a comedian of MMA. Check out his gold self defense vids!

Quote:
Roman,
You really seemed to have made quite the turnaround. If I remember correctly there was a time when you are rather anti-mma. I could be mistaken however....
All the more reason to hear me out. I used to be extremely anti-mma, complaining about basically everything that people have found to pick at in MMA. "Those stupid gorrilas pounding away at eachother. That's not martial arts" etc

If someone like me turned around, then maybe there's something in MMA many Aikidoka are not seeing. This is coming from a former hardcore Aikidoka, who trained in Aikido 6 days a week, 2.5 hours a day, for a couple of years.

Michael: How intricate are you in striking arts? Or grappling? Royce didn't beat them because they sucked at striking. They lost because they sucked at grappling. I think you're blowing these deadly karateka out of proportion.
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Old 07-12-2007, 11:52 PM   #1081
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Roman Kremianski wrote: View Post
All the more reason to hear me out. I used to be extremely anti-mma, complaining about basically everything that people have found to pick at in MMA. "Those stupid gorrilas pounding away at eachother. That's not martial arts" etc
Of course it's martial arts. That's just silly. Extreme positions usually are missing something important. :-)

Quote:
Roman Kremianski wrote: View Post
If someone like me turned around, then maybe there's something in MMA many Aikidoka are not seeing.
Money? Lots of money.

Quote:
Roman Kremianski wrote: View Post
This is coming from a former hardcore Aikidoka, who trained in Aikido 6 days a week, 2.5 hours a day, for a couple of years.
Less than 20 hours a week. Ah, so dedicated.

Regards,

Tarik Ghbeish
Jiyūshin-ryū AikiBudō - Iwae Dojo

MASAKATSU AGATSU -- "The true victory of self-mastery."
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Old 07-13-2007, 12:30 AM   #1082
Roman Kremianski
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

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Money? Lots of money.
Missed the hot ring girls, bro.
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Old 07-13-2007, 12:31 AM   #1083
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Roman Kremianski wrote: View Post
Missed the hot ring girls, bro.
Some of them in aikido, too, man!

Tarik Ghbeish
Jiyūshin-ryū AikiBudō - Iwae Dojo

MASAKATSU AGATSU -- "The true victory of self-mastery."
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Old 07-13-2007, 12:50 AM   #1084
CNYMike
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

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Roman Kremianski wrote: View Post
..... If someone like me turned around, then maybe there's something in MMA many Aikidoka are not seeing .....
Yeah, but the Aikido world is very welcoming to people from other systems or have done other systems. MMA guys seem to be creeping into that, from some posts I've read. If people go both ways, or crosstrain in both, then maybe one way isn't right.

Quote:
.... Michael: How intricate are you in striking arts? Or grappling?
Well, let's see: Over the past 22 years, I've trained in two styles of karate, taken a boxing class, and Kali which has, well everything, including boxing (Panantukan) and grappling (dumog). I'm also doing Jun Fan, and that includes a lot of stuff. I know what the basic postions on the ground are, although I'm not that good at synthesizing stuff yet. Still, I would like to think I have picked up a thing or two and, on occassion, I know what I'm talking about.

Quote:
Royce didn't beat them because they sucked at striking. They lost because they sucked at grappling. I think you're blowing these deadly karateka out of proportion.
When Royce lost to Matt Hughs(?), my Kali instructor, who saw it on pay per view, gave a little speech that just because he lost doens't mean he sucked; he is still order of magnitudes better than most of us and anyone who hops in the ring with them will get clobbered.

All I am doing is expanding the principle: Those "deadly karateka" are still very good at what they do, and someone who beats them has to be equally good at he does. Yes, when he got them on the ground, they had problems, but that doesn't mean their skills shouldn't be respected. If I went up against any of the guys he beat, I would get clocked. That doesn't mean I'm not "intricate;" just recoginizing that I am not that good.

As for how "deadly" a karateka can or can't be, I still remember the time in my first karate class when we had a circle of war, and when Sensei was in the middle, he kicked me in the chest; I felt things in my body move out of position and return thanks to the impact, but there was no bruise.

So I'm thinking someone good at delivering something like that is going to be tough to beat, regardless of what he does or doesn't know.
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Old 07-13-2007, 08:04 AM   #1085
Keith R Lee
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

YES! It will never die!

Not much to add really, we've been over it all before, just wanted to post again in this historic thread.

Also, I still think there is a lot of ignorance and confusion as what really goes on in most BJJ/MMA schools by many Aikido and other TMAers. Go try one out, they're fun places!

Keith Lee
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Old 07-13-2007, 08:24 AM   #1086
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Keith Lee wrote: View Post
YES! It will never die!

Also, I still think there is a lot of ignorance and confusion as what really goes on in most BJJ/MMA schools by many Aikido and other TMAers. Go try one out, they're fun places!
So MMA - from what I read it seems that MMA was first one art against another.

Now it appears MMA is a style of fight which people incorporated the best of the opponents fighting styles.

So in a sense its really Jeet Kun do (if I remembered the name correctly) which ol' Bruce said to mix arts.

Sifu Francis Fungs academy - back in the states, Atlanta - teaches J.K.D, Wing Chun, Thai boxing, Kali, BJJ and emphasizes training across all. I suppose you would call it MMA in todays standards as you no longer have just karate against judo, etc.

So at the end, the MMA differs based on what you like more (that is if you dont go to master 3 of the above, you pick and choose. so you could have a karate guy that learns a few grappling techniques, etc.)

As for Aikido in MMA, true, not sure how that would work...as these guys will be punching pretty fast - but then again, I wouldnt think that BJJ could beat a kick boxer as he would have to get past the reach of the legs and arms first...but what do i know, as I read it seems BJJ are magicians and avoid the crush of a Thai boxer and magically get him to the mat. I realize there is more to it than that.

So will aikido work in a fight...as we evolve and cross styles, not against the trained...against untrained, probably pretty effective.

But then again there is Krag Mava (spelling) the Israeli matial art of 'using whatever is close at hand and hurting you in sensitive places (from what I read) so I guess thats rough.

I guess it boils down to how far you want to go.
What is the goal of the fight? To prove something? If so its useless...as in a real situation, there will be the krag mava (military style) that will kill you...they wont play with twist.

If its to learn self control to stay out of fights...Aikido seems a good path.

All perspective.

- and today marks my completion of 2 months of aikido...whoo hoo

Peace

Dalen
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Old 07-13-2007, 08:43 AM   #1087
Roman Kremianski
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Well, let's see: Over the past 22 years, I've trained in two styles of karate
Then I assume you're also very experienced in full contact competition?

Also, some good bits from the Bullshido MMA faq:

Quote:
- "MMA people only care about winning and being the best."

Quite the contrary. Due to the competitiveness of not only MMA competition, but MMA style training, it becomes quickly apparent that there is no such thing as being unarguably "the best" but rather the "best you can be"

- "MMA people rely on brute strength and muscle to win fights, rather than technique and skill"

Furthest from the truth. One of the basic components to winning MMA bouts is a solid ground game which includes heavy grappling skill, one of the most difficult skill sets to gain proficiency in. If you look back to early MMA where it was still "style vs style" the only ones who tried to use brute strength were those claiming a background in a striking art, where the grapplers were smaller and relied soley on superior technical proficiency, even if it was sloppy by todays MMA standards. Today, being well rounded with accurate and well timed striking abilities, and flawless and economical movements on the ground are necessary to succeed in MMA. Musclebound bar brawlers don't stand much of a chance against todays fighting athletes.
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Old 07-13-2007, 09:20 AM   #1088
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Roman Kremianski wrote: View Post
Furthest from the truth. One of the basic components to winning MMA bouts is a solid ground game which includes heavy grappling skill,
See, that is what I still dont get...though 'statistics' prove otherwise...thus far.

And that is how grappling is seen as a key area to winning.
Again, It seems a M.T. boxer has his ground covered.

You have to get past the legs (and if hes fast and hard, should this not pose an issue to trying to grapple him?)
You have to get past the knee as you get closer that wants to smash the nose in...the elbow which can cut your head or pounce the top of your head...) - again from my one fight, it ended with the 'grappling type' dude having his nose smashed in...and I was going easy not trying to hurt. - and see thats the point of why I am taking Aikido, as I dont want to have to end a fight with someone broken, so to speak.

Again, Im not seeing to from a logic point of view.
I mean if we were all started on the ground lying on top of each other, I could see the grapplers having advantage...but if someone is using technique you have to reach the inside. Just like a boxer going against a taller boxer has to find his way in...

but it is as it is. suppose grappling is magic as mentioned before, they just somehow get that opponent on the floor without being kicked down themself... (suppose I watch to much welter weight boxing where the dudes are fast and can nail 'em out faster.)

Peace

dalen

Last edited by dalen7 : 07-13-2007 at 09:23 AM.
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Old 07-13-2007, 09:31 AM   #1089
Roman Kremianski
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Anything can happen in MMA matches. Theory doesn't really mean much.

Some matches go to the ground and stay there all match. Some are pure stand ups. If you really want to learn and understand, practice some yourself.

And example of the unpredictability I'm talking about:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...65248026&hl=en

Last edited by Roman Kremianski : 07-13-2007 at 09:35 AM.
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Old 07-13-2007, 09:39 AM   #1090
Paul Sanderson-Cimino
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Dalen Johnson wrote: View Post
See, that is what I still dont get...though 'statistics' prove otherwise...thus far.
again from my one fight, it ended with the 'grappling type' dude having his nose smashed in...and I was going easy not trying to hurt. - and see thats the point of why I am taking Aikido, as I dont want to have to end a fight with someone broken, so to speak.
I respectfully suggest that your experience with "fighting a grappler" may in fact have been unusual compared to the general trend. Sure, sometimes people knock out a grappler before they get taken down...but usually, they do so because they've practiced grappling takedowns at the very least and have honed some basic defenses, like the sprawl. Or just getting an instinct for when someone's about to shoot in.

I'll also submit that some MMAers are quite a bit more psychologically stable and secure than TMAers, precisely because they test themselves in realms other than their daydreams or freak encounters ("One day, my cat tried to claw my arm, so I moved to the side and applied ikkyo! Worked great! It was so beautiful.") There is something very refreshing about a study where one's functional skill is pretty accurately assessed multiple times per practice.
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Old 07-13-2007, 09:51 AM   #1091
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Paul Sanderson-Cimino wrote: View Post
There is something very refreshing about a study where one's functional skill is pretty accurately assessed multiple times per practice.
That's the thing, with MMA you know exactly where you stand. Krav Maga might teach you to kill, or as I experienced, it might be a cardio kickboxing class. The problem is you will never really know if anything works until you try it. I've seen many guys get shocked when there ideas of what was effective turned out to be false when put to the test.

After building these solid foundations of position, control, and technique. It's a short leap to start eye gouging and biting. There is a funny controversy going on at bullshido right now where a MMA guy took down a kung fu guy who had much more size and years of training. From the bottom he resorted to just holding on for dear life, so what did the MMA guy do? He bit him. Then used his experience in position and control to holding there and show he had dominance and could hurt him. Then after the guy verbally gave up (Complaining about this being a fight in a parking lot), he got off him.

Regardless of the idiocy of this fight. (It's very stupid that anyone would travel to fight someone they met on the internet with no rules in a parking lot) It showed a interesting truth we see all the time in the early days of MMA. 20+ years of training means nothing without randori (of the judo/mma variety). Tomiki realized this, Kano realized this. And this kung fu guy was beaten by someone with much less experience then he had. Afterwards he was completely unable to deal with the fact he was beaten and tried to restart the fight after he was standing. He was delusional. Thinking his art is superior, when he didn't realize the art doesn't matter, it is the method of practice.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 07-13-2007, 09:55 AM   #1092
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Paul Sanderson-Cimino wrote: View Post
I'll also submit that some MMAers are quite a bit more psychologically stable and secure than TMAers, precisely because they test themselves in realms other than their daydreams or freak encounters ("One day, my cat tried to claw my arm, so I moved to the side and applied ikkyo! Worked great! It was so beautiful.") There is something very refreshing about a study where one's functional skill is pretty accurately assessed multiple times per practice.
But still my point is...how does the grappler get close enough to tackle? He rushes in, I will knee the crap out of him, and I havent trained in any hard arts (aside from some kickboxing lessons that were actually boxing lol )

See, there are real fights and then rule fights...neither here not there...but again, I see a grappler getting you if your on the ground...but how to get a trained, technique dude on the ground that has further reach.

What is the grappler, a puma gonna pounce the dude with a 12ft leap? lol

I know, I know, the videos show it all.
And I dont claim that I am right from one experience...it just is ironic for me.

So any grappler can tell me...how do you go in without getting your block knocked off...I truly am curious...seriously, what technique, are you crouching tiger...i know it sounds like sarcasim but I truly am curious. What has worked for you specifically.

By the way, I kicked him on the ground, in the face, got up and bopped him in the nose again. (I know, different situation...and I was holding back the whole time...I wrote about this in full somewhere else...I had the dude in a headlock and could have pounced his face in before he though me on the floor, but I didnt want to hurt the dude. But once on the floor, I wasnt going to wrestle with him.

Peace

Dalen
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Old 07-13-2007, 09:59 AM   #1093
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Don Magee wrote: View Post
He was delusional. Thinking his art is superior, when he didn't realize the art doesn't matter, it is the method of practice.
Well, he was bitten it sounds like. A Mike tyson was pulled.
Hey if it works...but it goes to show you, its more than style...he could have bitten back or grabbed his crouch...so not sure about 'method' more about animal instinct. What genetics do you have in you is what it boils down to at the end of the day - viking.
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Old 07-13-2007, 10:21 AM   #1094
Roman Kremianski
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
But still my point is...how does the grappler get close enough to tackle? He rushes in, I will knee the crap out of him, and I havent trained in any hard arts (aside from some kickboxing lessons that were actually boxing lol )
Quote:
By the way, I kicked him on the ground, in the face, got up and bopped him in the nose again. (I know, different situation...and I was holding back the whole time...I wrote about this in full somewhere else...I had the dude in a headlock and could have pounced his face in before he though me on the floor, but I didnt want to hurt the dude. But once on the floor, I wasnt going to wrestle with him.
Ok bro, now this has gone from an intelligent debate to you running your mouth. Please get into a ring and show us this? Or Give us a video?

Quote:
So any grappler can tell me...how do you go in without getting your block knocked off...I truly am curious...seriously, what technique, are you crouching tiger...i know it sounds like sarcasim but I truly am curious. What has worked for you specifically.
Easy answer. Go to an MMA gym and they will teach you. You'll be surprised when you find out it's alot more then just "tackling" the guy.
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Old 07-13-2007, 10:31 AM   #1095
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Roman Kremianski wrote: View Post
Ok bro, now this has gone from an intelligent debate to you running your mouth. Please get into a ring and show us this? Or Give us a video?

Easy answer. Go to an MMA gym and they will teach you. You'll be surprised when you find out it's alot more then just "tackling" the guy.
Whoa, running my mouth (here goes 'ego' "He said I was running my mouth!") lol

Seriously, misunderstood I am (yoda)

Again, those 'running their mouth' - Im asking you for your example Roman. Peace to you dude...again, you misunderstand where Im coming from...and please...please...read.

I had a real fight, I dont go around having a plan to have a 'street' fight and have someone film it. So read before trying to say I did or did not do something...dude, relaxation is o.k...what is there to defend.
As for me, seems I said what I could, anything beyond this will be 'stories' and ego. (actually I have already involved myself on the realm of 'stories' of the ego by replying.

Peace

Dalen
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Old 07-13-2007, 10:32 AM   #1096
DonMagee
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Dalen Johnson wrote: View Post
But still my point is...how does the grappler get close enough to tackle? He rushes in, I will knee the crap out of him, and I havent trained in any hard arts (aside from some kickboxing lessons that were actually boxing lol )

See, there are real fights and then rule fights...neither here not there...but again, I see a grappler getting you if your on the ground...but how to get a trained, technique dude on the ground that has further reach.

What is the grappler, a puma gonna pounce the dude with a 12ft leap? lol

I know, I know, the videos show it all.
And I dont claim that I am right from one experience...it just is ironic for me.

So any grappler can tell me...how do you go in without getting your block knocked off...I truly am curious...seriously, what technique, are you crouching tiger...i know it sounds like sarcasim but I truly am curious. What has worked for you specifically.

By the way, I kicked him on the ground, in the face, got up and bopped him in the nose again. (I know, different situation...and I was holding back the whole time...I wrote about this in full somewhere else...I had the dude in a headlock and could have pounced his face in before he though me on the floor, but I didnt want to hurt the dude. But once on the floor, I wasnt going to wrestle with him.

Peace

Dalen
I'll tell you how I take down strikers. First tell me this, How do you punch someone without them kicking you. I mean if someone tried to come in to punch me, I'd just jump spin round kick them in the face.

Think about this. Your posts show you have no experience in fighting. It will be impossible to answer this question until you do. If you can answer how to punch someone without getting kicked, or how to punch someone without getting punched, or how to punch someone without getting clinched then you already have your answer.

I'll give you a hint, it's strategy and technique!

You also assume someone can't eat a strike to throw you. I do it all the time. Also my bjj class trains defenses against knee's and elbows from the clinch so we can throw. Wow, training to do what we plan to do, man that's nuts. Speaking of the clinch, how do you clinch with a guy who could just punch you? (Are you seeing how stupid this question is yet?)

Quote:
Dalen Johnson wrote: View Post
Well, he was bitten it sounds like. A Mike tyson was pulled.
Hey if it works...but it goes to show you, its more than style...he could have bitten back or grabbed his crouch...so not sure about 'method' more about animal instinct. What genetics do you have in you is what it boils down to at the end of the day - viking.
What was funny about it was it proved what bullshido was saying and disproved what he was saying. Basically that those in superior position can use dirty techniques with no effort, while those in inferior positions have almost no chance of doing the same. In my opinion he bit him without thinking, which just proves dirty tactics require no training to use effectively because they are natural. The good technique that allowed him to bite was skill and method of practice that let him take the guy down, secure the mount, and hold the mount for as long as he desired.

Here is that horrible video. The idiocy of all parties is very apparent http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-s5iDzgIRng

Last edited by DonMagee : 07-13-2007 at 10:47 AM.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 07-13-2007, 10:51 AM   #1097
philippe willaume
 
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Hello
Unless we are doing a job that has to do with LE or security, we could say that we are most likely to face two types of "threats".
A impromptu encounter with an aggressive individual with or without cronies.
Or a well prepared (or very determined) individual or group of those.

Yes we can say that BJJ going to the ground is not that sound, that MMA doe not deal with weapon or that some aikido is so fluffy that it make ultras soft bog roll looks like sand paper. But if we place ourselves against the first category, any martial art or combat sport will do. Yes you will have the odd knife or improvised weapon and the odd cronies that will help the leader, but globally whatever you do will suffice in you are minimum proficient in it (provided that it has a certain martial soundness, I mean knitting or classical ballet will not help as much)

If you find yourself pitted against the second group, equally it does not really matter what you do. You opponent has engineered a situation where he has better weapon and /or more people in a place that suit him.
More that what style you are practicing, what matter is you ability to run a mile after a full blasts 400meters.

So to answer the original question there is only two alternative either the aikido particed is not martial or the person asking the question can not make it work.

Phil

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Old 07-13-2007, 10:53 AM   #1098
Budd
 
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

This thread had a brief glimmer of hope upon its resurrection and has now gone back to being t43 $tup1d . . .

1) Dirty tricks are better able to be applied from the dominant position. As are weapons, tickles and hugs.

2) No martial art fully equals fighting. Some are better than others at approximating what happens in a fight.

3) If you've only just started training in MMA, you don't have the moral authority to say much more than "I've just started training MMA". Lots of people that only do aikido as a discipline can still kick your ass.

4) If you train aikido and you've never "worked out your stuff" against someone that tries to give skilled attacks of a strike/clinch/grapple nature, then you don't have the moral authority to say much more than "I don't know how it would work in that environment". Responding with, "But my sensei says . . ." only makes things worse.

I'm speeking from a position of having been guilty of a number of the above things. Others, I've only witnessed the pain (laughter) they can cause.
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Old 07-13-2007, 11:00 AM   #1099
Paul Sanderson-Cimino
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

I might be wrong, but I think JFS (the guy who gets mounted) tries to eyegouge here and there...but it's just not doable given his suck position.

Last edited by Paul Sanderson-Cimino : 07-13-2007 at 11:03 AM.
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Old 07-13-2007, 11:05 AM   #1100
DonMagee
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Budd Yuhasz wrote: View Post
This thread had a brief glimmer of hope upon its resurrection and has now gone back to being t43 $tup1d . . .
Welcome to arguing on the internet

Quote:
Paul Sanderson-Cimino wrote: View Post
I might be wrong, but I think JFS (the guy who gets mounted) tries to eyegouge here and there...but it's just not doable given his suck position.
I noticed that as well. I couldn't tell if he was eye gouging, just flailing helplessly, or maybe smart enough to think he might go for an armbar that would give him a chance to escape.

I'm still going with flailing helplessly with no rational plan.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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