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Old 05-03-2007, 06:58 PM   #51
ChrisMoses
Dojo: TNBBC (Icho Ryu Aiki Budo), Shinto Ryu IaiBattojutsu
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Re: 90% of all fights go to the ground..

Quote:
Don Magee wrote: View Post
I'll learn all I need about aikido from fighting with my cats.
Crap, first it was toddlers and now cats, I can't keep up...

Chris Moses
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Old 05-04-2007, 06:04 AM   #52
Budd
 
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Re: 90% of all fights go to the ground..

So, train to fight with kittens . . . that way you'll get the best of both worlds!
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Old 05-04-2007, 10:17 AM   #53
mriehle
 
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Re: 90% of all fights go to the ground..

Quote:
Don Magee wrote: View Post
I'm calling my aikido instructor tomarrow and telling him I'm never coming back. I'll learn all I need about aikido from fighting with my cats.
I realize you meant to be facetious, but...

...I used to have a house full of kittens. This was some years ago when I also had a house full of (irresponsible) roommates.

It's surprising what you can learn from "sparring" with kittens.
  • They are very fast. You don't accomplish anything by waiting until they leap and then trying to move faster than they do. They're faster, get used to it.
  • Hunting instincts can be easily triggered. Get them into true hunting mode and you *will* get bitten...hard. Better to move in ways that don't inspire aggression. And blaming them is pointless, they're just being cats.
  • Teeth and claws are sharp. Playing with kittens means you *will* be scratched and bitten. Maybe not seriously (see above about hunting instincts), but it will happen. Play accordingly.

It helps that they don't really mind losing. It's all part of the game. They seem to regard a loss as an opportunity to refine their skills. They'll get you next time.

Of course there isn't much in the way of physical skill learned here, but it's interesting how the exercise of trying to get inside a kitten's head provides perspective on getting inside another human being's head.

In point of fact, I've found that my Aikido skills are almost always useful with animals. Even my bird. Birds are predisposed to think everything wants to eat them. Convincing the bird you're not going to eat him is important to not getting bitten by a beak that can crush nuts.

Last edited by mriehle : 05-04-2007 at 10:18 AM. Reason: Clarify a point.

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Old 06-09-2007, 05:04 PM   #54
statisticool
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Re: 90% of all fights go to the ground..

Bumping this, just to keep aware that the often quoted "statistic" that 95% of all fights go to the ground (or some variant) is based on a misunderstanding of what the report says.

A secret of internal strength?:
"Let your weight from the crotch area BE in his hands."
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Old 06-09-2007, 07:15 PM   #55
DonMagee
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Re: 90% of all fights go to the ground..

Do you hear it often or something? I've haven't heard anyone actually use that argument in a long long time.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 06-10-2007, 01:24 AM   #56
Michael Varin
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Re: 90% of all fights go to the ground..

Quote:
Don Magee wrote:
I've haven't heard anyone actually use that argument in a long long time.
Probably because the effectiveness of BJJ in the UFC is wearing off. MMA guys are getting good. Many of them can effectively stop most takedowns, and their boxing skills are better as well.

-Michael
"Through aiki we can feel the mind of the enemy who comes to attack and are thus able to respond immediately." - M. Mochizuki
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Old 06-10-2007, 09:18 AM   #57
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Re: 90% of all fights go to the ground..

Quote:
Michael Varin wrote: View Post
Probably because the effectiveness of BJJ in the UFC is wearing off. MMA guys are getting good. Many of them can effectively stop most takedowns, and their boxing skills are better as well.
I would say it is balancing out. The bjj guys are learning that they need to actually learn takedowns. (In fact my instructor has been learning judo and forcing us to work takedowns every class now). The strikers have learned they need to learn how to deal with takedowns and how to stand back up when they do get taken down.

It comes down to this. A striker can not ignore the ground. A grappler can not ignore a good striker who did not ignore the ground.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 06-10-2007, 03:15 PM   #58
Budd
 
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Re: 90% of all fights go to the ground..

I was just at a BJJ seminar with Royler Gracie (a very cool, gracious, amazingly skilled guy who has a lot of passion for what he does and seems to greatly enjoy sharing it with people) on Friday night and it was very interesting to me that we didn't do anything that could be considered groundwork until nearly halfway through the seminar.

The first half emphasized (among other things) controlling/manipulating the distance while on your feet, how to close with someone while protecting yourself from strikes and landing your own strike first.

Something else he emphasized at the beginning of the seminar was that this workshop was not a tournament that we were there to "win", we were all there to help each other learn. I also noticed that people seemed to take this to heart and that those I worked with were interested in helping me "get" what we were doing, as opposed to some aikido seminars I've been to where too many folks seem more interested in either 1) teaching me their version/interpretation of what we're doing, which may or may not have anything to do with what the instructor has shown. 2) Trying to show me that they can stop what I'm trying to do -- I usually just switch to another technique, not interested in that game since I think it has about as much to do with "honest combatives" as does modern karate point sparring ("tag", you're it).

Royler was very clear about what he was teaching (at one point made the comment that he's not offering magic, just stuff to add to our game that will help if we continue to train hard in the basics) and had no qualms about jumping in, demoing and talking through with everyone to make sure they were getting it. It think it's a testament to how this art is being transmitted that it's caught on in popularity so much, is an integral part of the broader sport of MMA and continues to be trained by elite instructors that get hands on time with their students.

Oh and BJJ's dominance in MMA lasted the way it did because the Gracie family has always trained to make their stuff work against strikers, other grapplers, etc. Look at the old UFC "bio" tapes and you see Royce doing bag drills and training to control the distance against strikers. It's pretty apparent in the sport today that you need to have something of the hybrid approach and that no one system has all the answers.

As for how this works for someone training in martial arts today, as most reasonable people keep saying - it depends on what your goals are. As long as there's honesty with what the training is meant to achieve and you enjoy what you're doing -- where's the beef?
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Old 06-10-2007, 05:31 PM   #59
MM
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Re: 90% of all fights go to the ground..

Nice post, Budd.

Thanks!
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Old 06-11-2007, 07:53 AM   #60
statisticool
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Re: 90% of all fights go to the ground..

Quote:
Budd Yuhasz wrote: View Post
Look at the old UFC "bio" tapes and you see Royce doing bag drills and training to control the distance against strikers.
Sure worked with Hughes.

A secret of internal strength?:
"Let your weight from the crotch area BE in his hands."
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Old 06-11-2007, 07:56 AM   #61
Budd
 
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Re: 90% of all fights go to the ground..

Thanks, Mark. I personally recommend anybody that wants to get an idea of BJJ as an art that addresses more than just "groundfighting" to seek out a seminar by Royler.

I'll say it again, a very gracious guy with no BS. Very refreshing given some of the sometimes "cultish" mentality and behavior that can sometimes be exhibited by martial arts instructors and their students.
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Old 06-11-2007, 08:31 AM   #62
Budd
 
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Re: 90% of all fights go to the ground..

Quote:
Justin Smith wrote: View Post
Sure worked with Hughes.
Not sure what you're saying here, beyond making a glib "look at me" type of statement.

Are you saying that because Royce lost to Matt Hughes, that his training is invalidated? Many, many very tough guys have been beaten by Matt Hughes.

Matt Hughes has beaten and was beaten by BJ Penn (an MMA competitor whose primary art is BJJ).

I don't know or know of anyone (or any art, for that matter) that's invincible in or out of the ring. If you do, I'd love to hear about him (or her).

Last edited by Budd : 06-11-2007 at 08:35 AM.
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